BeaverFever Posted May 27 Author Report Posted May 27 (edited) 2 hours ago, Venandi said: Excellent. The supply line delays and lack of a parts sharing agreement with compatible US aircraft will make for longer TD breaks in great locations. Where were you when I needed you.... Nonsense. Ridiculous trolling. US doesn’t even have a AWACS aircraft for us to align to. The E3s are on an ancient platform that otherwise went extinct 40 years ago and are on their way out. The E7 is not even guaranteed to come into existence for USAF, they canceled the project in favour of soace-based solutions doncha know and haven’t 100% confirmed it will be fully resurrected much less when. So far officially they’re only committed to 7 (down from an original intended 26) which still would be the largest E7 fleet. THAT ROYALLY screwed over UK and Australia and a few others who now operate tiny orphan fleets of an aircraft that have no anchor customer and whose base civilian airframe is already out of production. That model, B737 NG, only has ONE ASSEMBLY LINE and it just operates to complete the backlog of P8s and E7s and already almost shut down permanently once for lack of orders until Canada ordered P8s and kept them on life support. . There are only 17 E7 in service and 31 total ever ordered. Meanwhile the Bombardier Global 6500 is a proven aircraft in worldwide usage still in production and made in Canada so no parts shortages should be expected. It’s also been ordered by Sweden, France UAE and NATO’s own AWACS fleet. There is a guaranteed production run of at least 40 Globaleye aircraft based on the existing order book and its not a budget-sucking monster like the B737 airframes are. Lastly the era of “we must buy whatever America buys regardless of whether it’s suitable for Canada just so we can be even more vulnerable to US supply chains, depraved US internal politics, US export controls, US corporate bullying and an insane US president” ….is over. There are some US items we can’t avoid buying. HIMARS already a done deal apparently. Chinook and Blackhawk Helicopters highly likely, maybe even Apaches. Bombs, missiles and munitions of all sorts. At least SOME F35. Probably a few other odds and ends. Unfortunately some US kit currently has no alternative Edited May 27 by BeaverFever Quote
Venandi Posted May 27 Report Posted May 27 (edited) 39 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: Nonsense. Ridiculous trolling. Hey... why not take "hell ya" for an answer. No break downs and no long delays waiting (on TD) for those parts to arrive. The claims section is sure rooting for ya. I just thought it might take a little longer than the easy stuff I needed to IOR when out and about... which usually was overlong IMO. It sounds like you have this cased and the supply lines sorted though, good on ya... go for it. Edited May 27 by Venandi Quote
Army Guy Posted May 27 Report Posted May 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, BeaverFever said: Nonsense. Ridiculous trolling. US doesn’t even have a AWACS aircraft for us to align to. The E3 are on their way out and the E7 is not even guaranteed to come into existence for US AF, they canceled the project doncha know and haven’t 100% confirmed it will be resurrected much less when. Meanwhile the Bombardier Global 6500 is a proven aircraft in worldwide usgege and made in Canada so no parts shortages should be expected. It’s also been ordered by Sweden, France UAE and NATO’s own. AWACS fleet. Lastly the era of “we must buy whatever America buys so we can be even more vulnerable to their supply chains, their internal politics, export controls and their insane president” is over. There are some US items we can’t avoid buying. HIMARS already a done deal apparently. Chinook and Blackhawk Helicopters highly likely, maybe even Apaches. Bombs and missiles of all sorts. At least SOME F35 Just because the US did not select the E-7 does not mean the aircraft type is dead....It is still being made in the US....And is being used by Multiply nations....in larger numbers than global eye...Built on the 737 frame, it should have been a no brainer as you say, as we already purchased the P-8....lots of parts in common...and to make matters worse the P-8 competition was another global 6500..."a Canadian built aircraft" funny how that worked out....don't get me wrong i personally like the global aircraft, but in this case it looks like I HATE Trump crowd made the decision that much easier....judging by Carneys speech... Just a note NATO has not yet ordered the Global eye...they still have not placed any orders, or chosen the final bidder.... What we do buy from the US is normally the best options....but there is many non US weapon system we do buy....So no buying US will never be over....Not when it comes to Aircraft any ways...Again this is more about i hate Trump than it is having a fair competition, and picking what is best for the military and not some political agenda.... Most of the new Frigates weapon systems , radars and many more systems... all American....why because they are the best and cheaper.. Edited May 27 by Army Guy Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Venandi Posted May 27 Report Posted May 27 8 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Again this is more about i hate Trump than it is having a fair competition, and picking what is best for the military and not some political agenda.... Stop it.... think TD by the pool, first round is on me. Quote
Army Guy Posted May 27 Report Posted May 27 2 minutes ago, Venandi said: Stop it.... think TD by the pool, first round is on me. Sorry, was not thinking there for a moment, man i should have gone Air Force Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
paxamericana Posted May 27 Report Posted May 27 1 hour ago, BeaverFever said: Lastly the era of “we must buy whatever America buys so we can be even more vulnerable to their supply chains, their internal politics, export controls and their insane president” is over. So what you gona make your own musket now is what I’m hearing? 1 hour ago, BeaverFever said: Nonsense. Ridiculous trolling. My sentiments exactly Quote
BeaverFever Posted May 27 Author Report Posted May 27 3 hours ago, John Johnston said: Also... https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/subs-germany-canada-economy-jobs-9.7213216 Very interesting. There really isn’t a wrong answer between these two. The Koreans have made some really bug investment pledges also. I kind of lean Team Korea but won’t cry too hard if we end up with TKMS. Quote
Venandi Posted May 27 Report Posted May 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, Army Guy said: was not thinking there for a moment, man i should have gone Air Force No worries, I'll lend you my spare flying suit. After the pool, just wear it to the Tiki Bar. There's free finger food and half priced drinks between 1800 and 1930... and the girls love all those badges. You go Beav!! Not from Deer Lake Nfld are you? I have fond memories of layovers at the hotel there, and bottled water due to the beaver invasion. Even though my family were trapping the critters before confederation, the first time I heard the "BeaverFever" term was there. If so, are you familiar with the QK crew lightbulb story? It's something of an urban legend now... Edited May 27 by Venandi 1 Quote
John Johnston Posted May 27 Report Posted May 27 26 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: There really isn’t a wrong answer between these two. The Koreans have made some really bug investment pledges also. I kind of lean Team Korea but won’t cry too hard if we end up with TKMS. I agree as well. Quote
BeaverFever Posted May 28 Author Report Posted May 28 5 hours ago, Venandi said: Hey... why not take "hell ya" for an answer. No break downs and no long delays waiting (on TD) for those parts to arrive. The claims section is sure rooting for ya. I just thought it might take a little longer than the easy stuff I needed to IOR when out and about... which usually was overlong IMO. It sounds like you have this cased and the supply lines sorted though, good on ya... go for it. What would there be longer waiting for parts to arrive when the olane is Canadian made and widely ised around the world? That’s why you’re trolling. By the way, the USAF and US Army already BOTH use Global 6500 too, compared to exactly in a few different fleet types, compared to exactly ZERO E7s. So does Germany, South Korea and others. So your story doesn’t pan out. Quote
BeaverFever Posted May 28 Author Report Posted May 28 4 hours ago, Army Guy said: Just because the US did not select the E-7 does not mean the aircraft type is dead....It is still being made in the US....And is being used by Multiply nations....in larger numbers than global eye... There are no new orders coming in. The 737 NG is no longer produced for civilian purposes so the E7 and P8 production line is all that’s left and it’s shutting down once they fill the E7 and P8 orders they have. All of the operators have small fleets which means big cost for such a big plane saab says they have an order book of 40 vs 31 E7 that have been ordered worldwide. The E7 would need new bigger hangars and maintenance equipment and you just said that doesn’t count as military spending right? I mean carney is already sending big bucks building new hangars and maintenance facilities and infrastructure for the P8s and F35s and CQ-9Bs and you guys are shrieking it doesn’t count it doesn’t count! So why would you want him doing more of that than he has to? And I doubt the AWACS planes would be at the same bases as the P8s anyway. I imagine P8s would be at Comix and Greenwood and the AWCS I am guessing would be Winnipeg? Or maybe Cold Lake/Bagotville if they are to be co-located with fighter Sqns? I don’t think they would with the maritime patrol Sqns on the coasts. Quote
Army Guy Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 2 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: There are no new orders coming in. The 737 NG is no longer produced for civilian purposes so the E7 and P8 production line is all that’s left and it’s shutting down once they fill the E7 and P8 orders they have. All of the operators have small fleets which means big cost for such a big plane saab says they have an order book of 40 vs 31 E7 that have been ordered worldwide. The E7 would need new bigger hangars and maintenance equipment and you just said that doesn’t count as military spending right? I mean carney is already sending big bucks building new hangars and maintenance facilities and infrastructure for the P8s and F35s and CQ-9Bs and you guys are shrieking it doesn’t count it doesn’t count! So why would you want him doing more of that than he has to? And I doubt the AWACS planes would be at the same bases as the P8s anyway. I imagine P8s would be at Comix and Greenwood and the AWCS I am guessing would be Winnipeg? Or maybe Cold Lake/Bagotville if they are to be co-located with fighter Sqns? I don’t think they would with the maritime patrol Sqns on the coasts. There are plenty of potential orders for the P-8, not only that, there is a constant need for Aircraft spares....The E-7 is paused for now, you or i can not say for any certainty there is NO orders out there or ever will be...The US still has not decided on which direction it will go...Neither has NATO... I never said that....what i said is we had a chance to buy the global 6500 witch was the P-8 competition and yet we picked the P-8...because at the time no body hated trump.....funny how now we pick the global 6500, because it is a Canadian aircraft....Why did we not pick the global 6500 the first time....and yet today announcement we need to buy Canadian because we don't like the trump....that is the only reason...Stop pushing your narrative...this is a political decision... Building more Military infra structure is part of the NATO deal....1.5 % on military infra structure....which includes anything the military may use....i explained this many times why is it so hard to understand....in most cases it is accounted for in the overall expenditure accounting....Had he stuck with the smaller planes meaning the global 6500, he would or could have built smaller hangers, i don't know what your talking about, I'm not one of those guys complaining about military expenditures.......And if you have ever been on a military base you would see just how old the infra structure really is....So why would any military person complain about money being feed in to the military....Most of the PMQ's were built in the 50's....how old is your home ?....they should have been replaced decades ago...but it is just military people...such a small demographic.. My point would have been on the logistic side of the house, all the spares are not held in one place, there are 2 major depots one in Alberta, and another in Toronto and each base has a major supply warehousing structures....because of the common spare parts, there would be more parts available, in many locations across the country...now we have two separate aircraft with no commonality meaning parts will be fewer... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Venandi Posted May 28 Report Posted May 28 (edited) 15 hours ago, BeaverFever said: That’s why you’re trolling. I'll leave you to it then, you can do you and I'll simply offer a final thought. If you want such things as two fighter platforms from two different generations, with different capabilities, two training streams, two logistic streams, two security streams, two maintenance streams etc etc that's fine with me. It's not even up to me, I'm just the guy who goes where you tell me to go and I do what you tell me to do. If you want numbers or an in-depth analysis about the folly of politically motivated procurement choices, that's the office down the hall and they have bags of experience... the sign on the door says SFIO (Stupid Ideas Officer) and they'll argue the finer points of it for as long as you want. Thing is, most of them haver never taken the show your contemplating on the road, I don't think you have either. Nonetheless, offering an opinion on taking a travelling show like that on an exclusive and extended vacation where even simple things are difficult isn't trolling, it's something to consider before dismissing it out of hand, especially if your motive for dismissal is politically motivated because that will change before the ink is dry on the contracts needed to even get the ball rolling. IMO, the idea is certainly platform specific wrt some of the discussions but the principles apply across the board. New platform acquisitions represent (or at least should represent) an opportunity to rationalize as many aspects of small Air Force support architecture as you can since you'll be living with the results for about 38 years after Trump is gone. The next generation of crews won't even know who he was. But hey... If this is what you want, you want it for political reasons (or whatever) and you're willing to pay for the privilege, you just go for it. I'd just note, by way of illustration though that you're currently having difficulty out training the current personnel deficits, and that's as basic an undertaking as it gets. The recruiting, retention, tempo equation is out of whack and has been for some time now, you don't correct that by expanding the traditional recruitment band of about 7% without consequences either. Ready willing and able are what you need and two out three seems to be what you're currently aspiring to. That's a problem that will get worse with time, you're competing with police, firefighting etc... they don't have the deep government pockets to venture too far out of the traditional band but they're feeling the heat though too so there's some slippage, but still, nothing like you'll find in the military. I don't know where the crews are coming for the new UAV/UAS when they arrive but someone is likely working on that right now because it takes a long time to grow these critters and your recruiting efforts absolutely SUCK... for lack of a better word. Then again, on a positive note... what ever the choice is, you can bet that a$$ "you people" seem to enjoy "laughing off" that we will do our part regardless. That's always been the case and it will continue in the future. I used to stress about getting stuff done with one hand tied behind my back... but, since you're actually doing this on purpose now, I'll just wait at the Tiki Bar while you sort your logistical stuff. I'll even get a troll painted on my helmet visor and think of you every time I take it out of the bag. So there ya go... a dumb pilot perspective on a largely political controversy that's wildly above my pay grade. Edited May 28 by Venandi 1 Quote
I am Groot Posted Thursday at 10:48 PM Report Posted Thursday at 10:48 PM On 5/25/2026 at 9:20 PM, BeaverFever said: The problem is you have a juvenile definition of “substance”. No, my problem is I suspect this government wants to spend money on absolutely anything it can that isn't directly connected with fighting. Unarmed patrol ships. Check. Satellite communication and housing. Check. Unarmed Transport Canada plans and Unarmed Coast Guard? Check. Aerial radar? Check. But nothing with guns. Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
I am Groot Posted Thursday at 10:51 PM Report Posted Thursday at 10:51 PM On 5/27/2026 at 5:09 PM, BeaverFever said: There really isn’t a wrong answer between these two. The Koreans have made some really bug investment pledges also. I kind of lean Team Korea but won’t cry too hard if we end up with TKMS. I like that the Korean sub can launch missiles. Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
I am Groot Posted Thursday at 10:53 PM Report Posted Thursday at 10:53 PM On 5/25/2026 at 4:04 PM, herbie said: Just repeatedly deny climate change is real. Act like people wanting to anything about it want to switch the lights out overnight, Climate change is real. And there's nothing we can do about it. So let's spend money adapting instead of bankrupting ourselves trying to drain a swimming pool that half the world is shooting firehoses worth of CO2 into. Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
I am Groot Posted Thursday at 10:56 PM Report Posted Thursday at 10:56 PM It looks like we're going to finally be buying some armed drones. From Poland, of all places. I'm hoping this is a stopgap measure, though. These things are easy enough to make that Turkey and Iran are building them by the thousands. And given the numbers being flung around in Ukraine and Russia, not to mention the Gulf, we need a lot of them. Enough to justify building a factory and keeping it employed. We don't need dozens of armed drones. We need thousands. https://breakingdefense.com/2026/05/canada-to-buy-polish-drones-deepen-defense-ties-by-leveraging-eu-safe-funds/ Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
eyeball Posted Friday at 12:27 AM Report Posted Friday at 12:27 AM 1 hour ago, I am Groot said: Climate change is real. And there's nothing we can do about it. So let's spend money adapting instead of bankrupting ourselves trying to drain a swimming pool that half the world is shooting firehoses worth of CO2 into. Adapting will cost us 6 times as much. 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
I am Groot Posted Friday at 01:32 PM Report Posted Friday at 01:32 PM 13 hours ago, eyeball said: Adapting will cost us 6 times as much. No, it really won't. We could have done major adaptation just with the $200 billion Carney says Trudeau threw away to no effect. Could have built dikes, irrigation systems, had grants so homebuilders could strengthen houses, etc. Instead, we threw the money away, and we're throwing more away now. Meanwhile, half the world is frantically building coal plants. Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
eyeball Posted Friday at 04:10 PM Report Posted Friday at 04:10 PM 2 hours ago, I am Groot said: No, it really won't. We'll, you should present your evidence for that conclusion to the IPCC because it flies in the face of what the vast majority of experts are saying. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
CdnFox Posted Friday at 04:15 PM Report Posted Friday at 04:15 PM 15 hours ago, eyeball said: Adapting will cost us 6 times as much. Adopting is a quarter of the price and it actually works Trying to tax the environment back into shape cost us hundreds of billions of dollars in economic activity and played a significant role in wiping out the middle class. Which is why it's such a back burner issue now For a tiny fraction of that damage we could have adapted to make climate change completely work for us. This is why you can never produce any evidence when asked of actual scientific data supporting the idea that climate change is a crisis or that there's anything we can do to substantially reduce its effects directly 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
User Posted Friday at 05:46 PM Report Posted Friday at 05:46 PM On 5/25/2026 at 7:07 PM, BeaverFever said: read it, b1tch OK... now what? This has nothing to do with your ignorance about gas storage. This has nothing to do with your ignorance in mocking me for saying underground caverns. This has nothing to do with you being a cowardly, pathetic liar about gas storage and underground coverns. Quote
CdnFox Posted Friday at 05:55 PM Report Posted Friday at 05:55 PM 18 hours ago, I am Groot said: It looks like we're going to finally be buying some armed drones. From Poland, of all places. I'm hoping this is a stopgap measure, though. These things are easy enough to make that Turkey and Iran are building them by the thousands. And given the numbers being flung around in Ukraine and Russia, not to mention the Gulf, we need a lot of them. Enough to justify building a factory and keeping it employed. We don't need dozens of armed drones. We need thousands. https://breakingdefense.com/2026/05/canada-to-buy-polish-drones-deepen-defense-ties-by-leveraging-eu-safe-funds/ I honestly don't understand this. I feel like if there was one element of defense that we could develop an industry for and be competitive as a world leader it would be drone technology. It's not like we don't understand it or we don't have experts, it's not like we're not studying how they're being used in the Ukraine right now, I feel like it would be easy for the gov't to put together a company or team to develop our own products and technology and innovate. I mean we have Canada geese, we're already an experts in small highly destructive search and destroy platforms that act autonomously Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
eyeball Posted Friday at 08:17 PM Report Posted Friday at 08:17 PM 4 hours ago, CdnFox said: Adopting is a quarter of the price and it actually works You never fact check yourself before you weigh in on things do you? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
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