August1991 Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 Our current federal PM cannot leave NATO. He needs the Slavic/Ukrainian votes. I reckon Poilievre could leave NATO. Pierre Trudeau? - Given the current world situation, no question. Like de Gaulle, we would leave NATO. 1 Quote
August1991 Posted July 10, 2023 Author Report Posted July 10, 2023 There's a debate among historians/social scientists: "Do great men matter?" IOW, do single events change history? Or is history an accumulation of events? 1 Quote
myata Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 RuZZia's bad and long-standing itch (from 1949 exactly). Other dictator thugs too. No efforts spared. Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
ExFlyer Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 3 hours ago, August1991 said: Our current federal PM cannot leave NATO. He needs the Slavic/Ukrainian votes. I reckon Poilievre could leave NATO. Pierre Trudeau? - Given the current world situation, no question. Like de Gaulle, we would leave NATO. I reckon Poilievre would and will say anything to get votes and then the reality hammer smacks him upside his head and he gets to know why NATO is important, not just as a military alliance but an economic alliance as well. Poilievre has to start speaking in real terms instead of just being a complainer. he needs credibility and so far he is only a whiner. I do not want to vote for Trudeau or his team but Poilievre has to make me want to vote for him. 3 Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
Nationalist Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 53 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: I reckon Poilievre would and will say anything to get votes and then the reality hammer smacks him upside his head and he gets to know why NATO is important, not just as a military alliance but an economic alliance as well. Poilievre has to start speaking in real terms instead of just being a complainer. he needs credibility and so far he is only a whiner. I do not want to vote for Trudeau or his team but Poilievre has to make me want to vote for him. I hope Polievre does detach from NATO. Canada doesn't need that money-pit. We just need to unleash our natural resources. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
ExFlyer Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Nationalist said: I hope Polievre does detach from NATO. Canada doesn't need that money-pit. We just need to unleash our natural resources. Money pit? Less than 1.2% of GDP is a money pit? Gas Tax rebate and Grocery rebate and GST/HST rebate and other rebates is almost the same and has no real economic benefit compared to that with the European Union. Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
Nationalist Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 1 minute ago, ExFlyer said: Money pit? Less than 1.2% of GDP is a money pit? Gas Tax rebate and Grocery rebate and GST/HST rebate and other rebates is almost the same and has no real economic benefit compared to that with the European Union. The EU is not NATO. IMO...its worse than NATO. As far as I'm concerned, all those central Euro nations that joined the EU...need to tell them to go fck themselves. The EU has done nothing but rape the central Euro nations since day 1. As for NATO...fck them too. NATO is a toothless old hag, kept afloat by our war mongering neo-cons down south. They will eventually drag us into another world war. And for what? A NATO reject. Pfft...fck NATO. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
ExFlyer Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, Nationalist said: The EU is not NATO. IMO...its worse than NATO. As far as I'm concerned, all those central Euro nations that joined the EU...need to tell them to go fck themselves. The EU has done nothing but rape the central Euro nations since day 1. As for NATO...fck them too. NATO is a toothless old hag, kept afloat by our war mongering neo-cons down south. They will eventually drag us into another world war. And for what? A NATO reject. Pfft...fck NATO. The EU is all (with a few exceptions) NATO countries. The EU is important to Canada from an economic and security point of view especially while Russia is playibg its game. You may not like NATO and clearly not EU either but, Canada needs them both. We rely on imports and EU is one of our sources. As a minor military player, we rely on our partners for part of our security. 1 Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
Nationalist Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: The EU is all (with a few exceptions) NATO countries. The EU is important to Canada from an economic and security point of view especially while Russia is playibg its game. You may not like NATO and clearly not EU either but, Canada needs them both. We rely on imports and EU is one of our sources. As a minor military player, we rely on our partners for part of our security. What makes you think business between Europe and Canada would suffer should the EU fall apart? What makes you think Canada needs a toothless old hag providing security? That sounds stupid. Edited July 10, 2023 by Nationalist Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
ExFlyer Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, Nationalist said: What makes you think business between Europe and Canada would suffer should the EU fall apart? What makes you think Canada needs a toothless old hag providing security? That sounds stupid. Maybe to you but, to businesses and trade and imports and exports here in Canada and the EU, the EU is important. You can call NATO whatever you want but the 31 countries in NATO are there because they believe in it and its principals and its usefulness. To be honest, your opinion is worth very little to the 31 countries within NATO, but hey, you are allowed. Just happy you are of no consequence. Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
Nationalist Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 2 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Maybe to you but, to businesses and trade and imports and exports here in Canada and the EU, the EU is important. You can call NATO whatever you want but the 31 countries in NATO are there because they believe in it and its principals and its usefulness. To be honest, your opinion is worth very little to the 31 countries within NATO, but hey, you are allowed. Just happy you are of no consequence. Do you think business would suffer if the EU were disbanded? It would probably increase. 31 countries and they all sit around lecturing the public about the evils of Russia and send old military crap to Ukraine. They turn off fossil fuel generators and realize they can't power their societies without it. They open their borders to boat loads of "refugees" and make "No Go" zones in their own nations. So ya...I think its safe to say these "leaders" are fools. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
ExFlyer Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: Do you think business would suffer if the EU were disbanded? It would probably increase. 31 countries and they all sit around lecturing the public about the evils of Russia and send old military crap to Ukraine. They turn off fossil fuel generators and realize they can't power their societies without it. They open their borders to boat loads of "refugees" and make "No Go" zones in their own nations. So ya...I think its safe to say these "leaders" are fools. I think the 31 EU countries chose to become a EU to advance business opportunities. To do away with 31 different rules, regulations and customs issues so yeah, it was financially beneficial for businesses. The Brits narrowly decided to leave, hence Brexit, but if it went to vote today, they would be back in. 31 countries do not sit around talking evils of Russia although, their proximity to the giant has them concerned as could be seen by Russia's action not only in Ukraine but also Crimea, Moldova, Chechnya, Georgia. None of those countries could protect themselves alone, hence they now belong to Russia. The EU alliance, 450 million people rely on the EU for business and safety. Ukraine was an outlier and is fighting for 1 1/2 years and getting their cities bombed and citizens killed. I get it you don't like NATO or EU but you are not affected and not near the issues but benefit from afar.. I think it is safe to say these leaders are taking care of their citizens financially and militarily.. Edited July 10, 2023 by ExFlyer 1 Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
Nationalist Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 1 minute ago, ExFlyer said: I think the 31 EU countries chose to become a EU to advance business opportunities. To do away with 31 different rules, regulations and customs issues so yeah, it was financially beneficial for businesses. The Brits narrowly decided to leave, hence Brexit, but if it went to vote today, they would be back in. 31 countries do not sit around talking evils of Russia although, their proximity to the giant has them concerned as could be seen by Russia's action not only in Ukraine but also Crimea, Moldova, Chechnya, Georgia. None of those countries could protect themselves alone, hence they now belong to Russia. The EU alliance, 450 million people rely on the EU for business and safety. Ukraine was an outlier and is fighting for 1 1/2 years and getting their cities bombed and citizens killed. I get it you don't like NATO or EU but you are not affected and not near the issues but benefit from afar.. Not true at all. First of all, the EU is made up of 27 countries. There are 31 in NATO. I happen to have property in one of those eastern Euro nations. I've seen first hand what the EU does. Czech rum. A tradition for centuries. But made with sugar beats instead of sugar cane. So the EU decides they can no longer call it "rum". Public washrooms in restaurants and such, used to be a wall of tiles and a trough at the bottom with water running down the wall all the time. But the EU decided that was not good enough and made all the businesses and cities replace the traditional urinals with expensive single person ones at a very high cost. Urinals...imported from Germany and France. Refugees have been forced on the Czechs by the EU. The Czechs have resisted some but, the EU will fine them if they refuse their edict. Country folk used to have a tradition of slaughtering a pig in the fall. This was a real family thing. But alas...the EU decided that was out. Now Czechs buy imported meat at several times the price. If one has a shed in the yard, the EU has decided the Czechs need to tax the building. The EU has produced nothing but hardship and frustration to these nations. Its a greed driven farce that these central Euro nations need to get out of ASAP. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
ExFlyer Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Not true at all. First of all, the EU is made up of 27 countries. There are 31 in NATO. I happen to have property in one of those eastern Euro nations. I've seen first hand what the EU does. Czech rum. A tradition for centuries. But made with sugar beats instead of sugar cane. So the EU decides they can no longer call it "rum". Public washrooms in restaurants and such, used to be a wall of tiles and a trough at the bottom with water running down the wall all the time. But the EU decided that was not good enough and made all the businesses and cities replace the traditional urinals with expensive single person ones at a very high cost. Urinals...imported from Germany and France. Refugees have been forced on the Czechs by the EU. The Czechs have resisted some but, the EU will fine them if they refuse their edict. Country folk used to have a tradition of slaughtering a pig in the fall. This was a real family thing. But alas...the EU decided that was out. Now Czechs buy imported meat at several times the price. If one has a shed in the yard, the EU has decided the Czechs need to tax the building. The EU has produced nothing but hardship and frustration to these nations. Its a greed driven farce that these central Euro nations need to get out of ASAP. Fine, yours is bigger than mine. ? Population of EU is still 450 million. Czech is 14 million and benefited from both NATO and EU and most importantly...... they are not part of Russia. Edited July 10, 2023 by ExFlyer Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
Aristides Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 5 hours ago, Nationalist said: I hope Polievre does detach from NATO. Canada doesn't need that money-pit. We just need to unleash our natural resources. Countries with no allies and have to be 100% responsible for their own security. 1 Quote
Nationalist Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 26 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Fine, yours is bigger than mine. ? Population of EU is still 450 million. Czech is 14 million and benefited from both NATO and EU and most importantly...... they are not part of Russia. How...have the Czechs benefited? Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Nationalist Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 15 minutes ago, Aristides said: Countries with no allies and have to be 100% responsible for their own security. Allies are fine. But NATO as an alliance...is now a failure. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
ExFlyer Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Nationalist said: How...have the Czechs benefited? 33 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Allies are fine. But NATO as an alliance...is now a failure. Just in purchasing power and not being isolated alone is beneficial. Not having to have an entire armed forces with all the expense accrued is beneficial. "The European Union membership referendum in 2003 approved the country's accession with 77.3% in favour, and in 2004 the Czech Republic joined the EU." and is now politically and economically stable. If you don't become part of NATO in Europe, you have no allies. You live here, enjoy it. Edited July 10, 2023 by ExFlyer Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
Nationalist Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 10 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Just in purchasing power and not being isolated alone is beneficial. Switzerland seems to do ok. 11 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Not having to have an entire armed forces with all the expense accrued is beneficial. Really? How so? It puts us at the mercy of other nations. 12 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: "The European Union membership referendum in 2003 approved the country's accession with 77.3% in favour, and in 2004 the Czech Republic joined the EU." and is now politically and economically stable. https://english.radio.cz/how-has-10-years-eu-membership-impacted-czech-society-8297113 18 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: You live here, not there because of NATO and EU?? We are part of NATO and have trade agreements with the EU and had to have special ones with Britain because of Brexit. I live here for wealth and edible pizza. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
ExFlyer Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 26 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Switzerland seems to do ok. Really? How so? It puts us at the mercy of other nations. https://english.radio.cz/how-has-10-years-eu-membership-impacted-czech-society-8297113 I live here for wealth and edible pizza. Bye 1 Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
Dougie93 Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 12 hours ago, August1991 said: Our current federal PM cannot leave NATO. He needs the Slavic/Ukrainian votes. I reckon Poilievre could leave NATO. Pierre Trudeau? - Given the current world situation, no question. Like de Gaulle, we would leave NATO. France never left NATO France remained a member of NATO France simply withdrew from the NATO integrated command structure under the SACEUR France has since reversed the 1966 decision rejoining the NATO integrated command structure in 2009 1 Quote
Aristides Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: Allies are fine. But NATO as an alliance...is now a failure. Aside from 9/11, no NATO country has been attacked in its 73 year history. Non NATO members haven't fared so well. Sounds like a big success to me. 1 Quote
Nationalist Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Aristides said: Aside from 9/11, no NATO country has been attacked in its 73 year history. Non NATO members haven't fared so well. Sounds like a big success to me. And who do you figure would have attacked them? Iran? Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.
Aristides Posted July 10, 2023 Report Posted July 10, 2023 5 minutes ago, Nationalist said: And who do you figure would have attacked them? Iran? Soviet Union and now Russia. Do you live under a rock? 1 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted July 11, 2023 Report Posted July 11, 2023 On 7/10/2023 at 9:25 AM, ExFlyer said: I reckon Poilievre would and will say anything to get votes and then the reality hammer smacks him upside his head and he gets to know why NATO is important, not just as a military alliance but an economic alliance as well. Poilievre has to start speaking in real terms instead of just being a complainer. he needs credibility and so far he is only a whiner. I do not want to vote for Trudeau or his team but Poilievre has to make me want to vote for him. I think that goes for any political leader...reality rarely comes with lubrication... PP is the official opposition, it is really his job to whine and complain...where the metal meets the bone is election time, thats when WE all will get to see who is who.. That being said, he would have to turn out to be a complete wing nut to really consider voting for Justin. 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
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