'It's meaningless basically': One-time grocery rebate gets underwhelming reception

[I am Groot]

14 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'm trying to imagine how you'll feel when automation and AI make and do everything.

I wonder how AI and the robots will feel about it? 

I have no idea what you're on about now.

[ExFlyer]

6 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

During the pandemic, the government provided financial handouts to individuals who couldn't work due to vaccine-related reasons, to be crusaders. Some of those people misuse this support to engage in disrespectful behavior toward the medical establishment.

Now, the same government, Uncle Sugar I call it, is offering a grocery rebate program funded by the hard work of others.

It's highly likely that those who received pandemic assistance will also benefit from this rebate.

I witnessed one individual, who has potentially received the grocery rebate, blatantly insulting the FBI in another forum.

This exemplifies the negative consequences of providing monetary handouts, as it enables trolling behavior.

In my honest opinion, if you don't contribute and rely on this kind of stuff, it's akin to being a freeloader. Back in the Roman Empire, individuals like that would be considered no more than servants.

Instead of simply doling out a "grocery rebate," why not encourage productivity? For instance, assign those who receive assistance to street sweeping duties around areas like Spadina and Bathurst stations where cleanliness is lacking. Only after fulfilling such responsibilities should they receive the funds.

Handouts should never replace personal growth and productivity. That's just bones thrown by Sugarland.

So, lets take the indigenous.

Every indigenous person living in remote (or off the grid) communities throughout this country are, in your words, freeloaders. They have no industry, no work in those communities except the make work projects the feds have made for them.

Workfare has been tried but it was determined to be demeaning to the dignity of the individual and was cancelled.

 

[ExFlyer]

19 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

I would prefer not to discuss the topic of indigenous communities too much, as it can be a subject that requires careful consideration where everyone is with their own strong opinion. While it is true that there have been historical injustices, and certain exceptions may exist for their communities, it is important to recognize that individuals born in 2023 have opportunities to shape their own paths and contribute independently to society, from any society, to leave the group behind and make it your own, then you come back -> offer innovation, perspectives to your communities.  

In my opinion, workfare programs hold the potential to provide valuable work experience, promote self-sufficiency, and assist individuals in their transition into the labor market.

If you have a different perspective, I am interested in knowing if there have been notable complaints from participants. It is understandable that some individuals may express dissatisfaction when required to work for wages, particularly if they perceive the alternative as receiving financial assistance without engaging in productive activities.

I responded to your comments."if you don't contribute and rely on this kind of stuff, it's akin to being a freeloader. " as well as the comments leading up to that statement.

I do have very strong opinions on indigenous generational welfare. In my career, I have had opportunity to be on many indigenous "communities" (formerly called reserves). I have seen what goes on.

I fully agreed with workfare (Ontario Works) when it was presented and implemented. Thing is, it embarrassed some and it was quickly deemed politically incorrect.

I agree, and have always espoused, you earn what you have. If you do not earn, you deserve what predicament you are in. I also am a huge opponent of the Guaranteed Wage movement.  Do not work, get nothing. With a few exceptions, no one is owed anything.

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by ExFlyer

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

I have no idea what you're on about now.

The end of labour - the ability to justify your existence.

[ExFlyer]

24 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

For me, prior to the pandemic, I had a clear understanding of what AI was capable of bringing, I knew what was coming.

• Therefore, I believed that eventually, the government would have to distribute financial assistance to the public.

However, the Covid-19 pandemic emerged, and it infuriated me to witness how people took advantage of the situation. I was astounded by the sums of money being handed out, approximately $2,000 to stay home? AND ON TOP of that, working and collecting. 

I even had a confrontation with a janitor at one of the companies I used to work at as an independent.

I had been nice to him, and he decided to confide in me that he was collecting money on the side while working. I believe our relationship soured after that when I said back a few words

Additionally, an Uber driver questioned why I continued to go to work instead of staying at home.

There were numerous other interactions during the pandemic, as evident in the posts at the time. I have no sympathy for those who exploited the situation for personal gain or play the card of a vaccine crusader to collect, as others endured hardships and later suffered from mental instability.

Now, with the advent of AI, individuals still resort to collecting money instead of using their skills to generate income.

Lately, I've been contemplating an idea to save money aside from all the other things that I am engaged in.

I plan to approach restaurants and dine there. If I enjoy the food, I will leave them a positive review using AI-generated language to attract potential customers. In return, I will propose a mutually beneficial arrangement where they can offer me a discount. I will then allocate the money I save from these discounted meals for future expenses or other endeavors. And they get customers. Helping the private sector. 

There are countless ideas one can explore, yet when presented with an alternative, people often gravitate towards easy gains.

I am afraid you have lost me.

I too know of people getting the income supplement from the pandemic cash. It was given too freely and now some folks feel entitled to free money. It does have to stop.

I have a friend working for CRA and he has been seconded to the fraud department and they are going after those folks that have "cheated" They even caught CRA employees and fired them and made them pay back. They are also going after pensioners that got the money. He said many thousands of pensioners are in for a shock.

Anyway you lost me with your mention of AI? Are you saying artificial intelligence is somehow playing a role??

[ExFlyer]

20 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

What I intended to convey is that considering the potential job market disruption caused by AI, I was initially receptive to the idea of distributing resources (before the pandemic) to ensure some level of equilibrium, and then out of the ones that receive, the majority will think of original ideas to supplement that income. 

However, the pandemic revealed to me that when money is distributed for any purpose, people tend to take advantage of the situation for their own gain. This observation has made me less inclined towards such distribution, even in light of the disruptions caused by AI in the job market. The societal response during the pandemic has fundamentally altered my perspective. 

Nothing to be given is my take, AI was given, AI is the Universal Basic Income, so folks can use it and generate income, no more free sugar is my take. 

Oh, AI is Universal Basic Income. Never run into that acronym used for that. I am an old guy so, it is welfare to me.

Absolutely, when free money is offered, people will take it.

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

The end of labour - the ability to justify your existence.

That's what stock portfolios are for.

[herbie]

Good God Contrarian that pandemic handout to stay home was just that. Because you had to stay home, you weren't earning an income!

And it had to be handed out in a hurry as it was needed then, not six months after some Parliamentary Committee set a bunch of eligibility rules and qualifications.
It had to be distributed at once, which no gov't anywhere had to do before, as such circumstances had never happened before. So obviously it wasn't done well.
Yeah, a lot of people ripped it off. My wife was told to apply as she was off on sick leave and EI was backed up. She got it 8 weeks later, what was she supposed to live on for 2 months? She passed away a couple weeks later. Last year they sent notice that she received it in error, as she was on EI medical and did not qualify... so I had to pay back $2000 out of her estate.

Regardless, everyone griping about GST-Carbon-Grocery rebates is still complaining about the gov't giving some of your money back to you, which has got to be the definition of insanity. If your ideology is so butt stubborn important to you, give it back or donate it.

[Perspektiv]

5 minutes ago, herbie said:

complaining about the gov't giving some of your money back to you

Thats the thing.

Its not giving it back to Canadians. 11 million people, isn't Canadians. 

You're essentially charging people like me higher taxes, to afford hand outs for issues this level of government spending have exacerbated. 

Its disingenuous. Anyone who can see through it, will complain.  

Anyone who can't see beyond the money, will be happy at the government cheese.

 

[CdnFox]

On 7/6/2023 at 1:01 PM, Moonbox said:

Please refer to immediately prior post for basic math (no feels involved! ?)

No math there at all.  If you're claiming that it's a scale issue then you'd have to be able to demonstrate the scale - you would still be able to demonstrate how 2.5 billion dollars focused on a specific catagory like groceries wouldn't have a significant effect - for you to be able to say that you must know the effect. So... lets see how you caluclated the effect.  Or if you're using someone else's calculations then how they did it.

Unless you're just being a lying sack of crap    But noooo - that can't be it.  lets see the math - then we can determine if your assessment of how minor it is would be accurate.

4 hours ago, herbie said:

And it had to be handed out in a hurry as it was needed then, not six months after some Parliamentary Committee set a bunch of eligibility rules and qualifications.

Most of it went to corporations who didn't need it actually.

Sooooo - how was that 'critical' again?

[herbie]

If proper Tory procedure was followed, they'd have the list of who's eligible out around now.
The bulk of the money would go to trustees of bankrupt companies and welfare agencies reclaiming the benefits they paid out

[CdnFox]

57 minutes ago, herbie said:

If proper Tory procedure was followed....

...Then based on history they'd have done twice as much with half the expenditure and nations around the world would be looking to Canada as an example.  Which is precisely what happened during past financial crisis that the Conservatives handled.

When the liberals do it it's always the same - vast amounts of debt, poor results, high inflation.  Oh - which happened this time too  

[Moonbox]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

No math there at all.  If you're claiming that it's a scale issue then you'd have to be able to demonstrate the scale - you would still be able to demonstrate how 2.5 billion dollars focused on a specific catagory like groceries wouldn't have a significant effect

Yes, so google the grocery/food market and then divide $2.5B by that, like I already suggested numerous times, you donkey.  

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Unless you're just being a lying sack of crap    But noooo - that can't be it.  lets see the math - then we can determine if your assessment of how minor it is would be accurate.

Show us those estimates you saw, that were totally not made up ?.

[CdnFox]

a

11 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Yes, so google the grocery/food market and then divide $2.5B by that, l

so your calculation for inflation is the grocery market divided by 2.5 billion.

Ok - lets see what that gives us.

THe food market is going to be 135 billion in 2023 us. So about 189 billion cdn ish.

https://www.statista.com/outlook/cmo/food/canada

So - this money is getting dumped in a month so one month of food industry  is 15.79  billlion.

So using your stats inflation will be lets say 16 billion / 2.5 billion  which is 6.4  billion.  So.. what does that mean?

Your math doesn't make a lot of sense.

I do note that 2.5 billion represents sixteen percent of the food market - that is an absolutely HUGE percent when it comes to inflationary pressure.  Like MASSIVE.  So it would sem that your math isn't supporting your conclusion.

Even if we look at the entire year - it's STILL a very substantial amount of money - a rise of even 0.5 percent in demand when there is ALREADY inflationary pressure will have a very large effect over time.

And the math you proposed doesn't actually result in a percent increase, it's just a number that doesn't seem really to mean anything.

Did you want to try again? Or are you prepared to admit you just shot your mouth off without thinking?

 

[OftenWrong]

I heard the rebate maxes out at like 200 bucks. Big whoop.

Not even lunch money for the fat cats in Ottawa when they go out.

[herbie]

15 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I heard the rebate maxes out at like 200 bucks. Big whoop.

Well you heard wrong. You should have looked it up instead of listening to what 'everyboday sez,,,'

[Nefarious Banana]

Chrystia Freelunch will be checking that folks aren't re-subscribing to the Disney Channel . . . 

[herbie]

Wahhh! The single Mom on welfare next door got more than I did. Wahh!! They should cancel the whole program.

[OftenWrong]

41 minutes ago, herbie said:

Well you heard wrong. You should have looked it up instead of listening to what 'everyboday sez,,,'

I did look it up and that's what it says, little Herbie. What do you think it says?

"Single people without children will get up to $234 and seniors will see a rebate of up to $225".

They even nickel-and-dimed seniors out for ten bucks. I guess they don't eat much.

 

 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Chrystia Freelunch will be checking that folks aren't re-subscribing to the Disney Channel . . . 

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/satire-dear-diary-chrystia-freeland-grocery-rebate

'Think of all the hot dogs this grocery rebate buys': Inside the thoughts of Chrystia Freeland

 

[Nefarious Banana]

14 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

'Think of all the hot dogs this grocery rebate buys': Inside the thoughts of Chrystia Freeland

A pallet of Kraft Dinner . . . .  best before date:  Ma/05/2021

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

A pallet of Kraft Dinner . . . .  best before date:  Ma/05/2021

And no popcorn - we wouldn't want them to get any ideas about wasting any of the money on beer.

[OftenWrong]

4 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

A pallet of Kraft Dinner . . . .  best before date:  Ma/05/2021

Interesting you should mention. Liberals have a plan for how to deal with expired 'Best Before' dates. - By simply removing them.

A report on grocery affordability from a House of Commons committee on agriculture and agri-food includes calls for Canada to do away with best-before dates.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-best-before-dates-food-waste-1.6897004

Now you know what that means.

[CdnFox]

14 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Interesting you should mention. Liberals have a plan for how to deal with expired 'Best Before' dates. - By simply removing them.

A report on grocery affordability from a House of Commons committee on agriculture and agri-food includes calls for Canada to do away with best-before dates.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-best-before-dates-food-waste-1.6897004

Now you know what that means.

So justin has managed to develop the same solution as the simpson's  "Apu" at the kwik-e-mart.  Our food security issues and inflation are following in the footsteps of comic characters.

 

[Moonbox]

On 7/8/2023 at 12:08 AM, CdnFox said:

Did you want to try again? Or are you prepared to admit you just shot your mouth off without thinking?

You can try again if you want.  Start here:

After somehow derping up and reversing the order of a one-step math equation and then realizing it made no sense, instead of checking the post again and making sure, you shot off your mouth without thinking and pounded out another clueless ramble.  ?