eyeball Posted June 22, 2023 Report Posted June 22, 2023 8 minutes ago, CdnFox said: I'm not immediately seeing where there's room in your proposed model for much democracy to be added. Well, you just automatically see liars everywhere you look so it's no surprise you see little else. From my perspective it's not like a whole lot exists already but in any case there should be lots of room for things like Citizen's Assemblies, referendums with ballot polls and mail-in and or online voting. There'd even be lots of room for volunteerism in our governance. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
CdnFox Posted June 22, 2023 Author Report Posted June 22, 2023 46 minutes ago, eyeball said: Well, you just automatically see liars everywhere you look so it's no surprise you see little else. ROFLMAO - well i guess that's one way of admitting you effed up and said something a little stupid isn't it So - no room whatsoever in your model and you're angry about it so somehow it's my fault LOLOL Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
WestCanMan Posted June 22, 2023 Report Posted June 22, 2023 Bernier stands as an example of how the MSM in this country can destroy a politician. Conservatives have to line up and recite a watered-down version of Trudeau's leftist slogans or they're screwed. Quote If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. "I don't hate American's, I pointed out the literacy rate to Uncle Sam." - LinkSoul "It's just a parable about rocks and trees talking to muslims to help them kill Jews who are trying to hide. It's open to interpretation." - robobigot
WestCanMan Posted June 22, 2023 Report Posted June 22, 2023 13 hours ago, CdnFox said: and at least half that growth was from GREEN PARTY voters who went over to him due to being frustrated with their own party and for anti vax reasons Seroiusly - who'da seen that coming. I was gonna say "How is that even possible", but I used the Greens as a protest vote once about 30 years ago, I don't remember why. Maybe it was some of the "protest voters" who just changed their anti-whatever vote. Quote If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. "I don't hate American's, I pointed out the literacy rate to Uncle Sam." - LinkSoul "It's just a parable about rocks and trees talking to muslims to help them kill Jews who are trying to hide. It's open to interpretation." - robobigot
myata Posted June 22, 2023 Report Posted June 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: Conservatives have to line up and recite a watered-down version of Trudeau's leftist slogans or they're screwed. Sure, that's the idea. The system has to work for itself, it is its only true claim and purpose. Joe and Jill could have figured it out ages ago. If only they cared about the future of their democracy even a tiny bit like their passion for beer and hockey. Oh well... Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant
WestCanMan Posted June 22, 2023 Report Posted June 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, myata said: Sure, that's the idea. The system has to work for itself, it is its only true claim and purpose. Joe and Jill could have figured it out ages ago. If only they cared about the future of their democracy even a tiny bit like their passion for beer and hockey. Oh well... The system is currently broken. Our bought-and-paid-for MSM runs the country. Quote If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. "I don't hate American's, I pointed out the literacy rate to Uncle Sam." - LinkSoul "It's just a parable about rocks and trees talking to muslims to help them kill Jews who are trying to hide. It's open to interpretation." - robobigot
CdnFox Posted June 22, 2023 Author Report Posted June 22, 2023 1 hour ago, WestCanMan said: I was gonna say "How is that even possible", but I used the Greens as a protest vote once about 30 years ago, I don't remember why. Maybe it was some of the "protest voters" who just changed their anti-whatever vote. I think it was partly that, but there's also indication that a lot of green supported were NOT vax supporters or like me believed strongly that people should have a choice. So it was somewhere they could go that they could send that message without risking them actually winning the election. Or a seat. Apparently. 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
eyeball Posted June 22, 2023 Report Posted June 22, 2023 2 hours ago, CdnFox said: ROFLMAO - well i guess that's one way of admitting you effed up No it's strictly a comment on you. 2 hours ago, CdnFox said: So - no room whatsoever in your model and you're angry about it so somehow it's my fault LOLOL No room? What on Earth are you talking about? It's not my fault you ignored the room I made for things like Citizen's Assemblies or referendums. Why on Earth would do you do that anyway? If you're not immediately seeing where there's room in my 'model', then feel free to act as if it's your idea and find some yourself and if you can then great. Share it. 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
ExFlyer Posted June 22, 2023 Report Posted June 22, 2023 43 minutes ago, Contrarian said: Let's be honest, how much is Uncle Sam paying you to come here and play @ExFlyer? Brother, how come a strong man like you spends his time to submit reports when ONE like you can teach these folks something?! Huh? Uncle Sam? Huh? I have no idea what you are on about?? What did I say? What post on this thread are you referring to?? Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
CdnFox Posted June 22, 2023 Author Report Posted June 22, 2023 25 minutes ago, eyeball said: No it's strictly a comment on you. LOL - it really isn't Quote No room? What on Earth are you talking about? You're randomly picking people instead of electing them - where's there room for democracy after that? Or are you saying you're struggling with the English language in genereal? Quote It's not my fault you ignored the room I made for things like Citizen's Assemblies or referendums. Why on Earth would do you do that anyway? Well that's still not democracy - a democracy is a gov't elected by the people. All you're talking about is having the gov't occasionally allow them to have an opinion AND frankly what are you going to do if they decide NOT to call a referendum OR citizesn assembly? It's not like you can vote them out of power. Not that it makes much difference if they do - if they get to phrase the questions the results will be foregone anyway. I think you need to research how 'democracy' works. Quote If you're not immediately seeing where there's room in my 'model', then feel free to act as if it's your idea and find some yourself and if you can then great. Share it. Well how about a model where by people put themselves forward within a district that's predetermined in size for fairness and the residents are allowed to vote to choose who will represent them. and it's organized along party lines so they can have a say in and be aware of that party's policy prior to the election? Oh... wait.... Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
eyeball Posted June 22, 2023 Report Posted June 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, CdnFox said: You're randomly picking people instead of electing them - where's there room for democracy after that? Ummmm... 4 hours ago, eyeball said: Let MP's elect their executive and Cabinet based on the merits of individuals whose names are put forward. I suppose they could run that past the electorate one more time so everyone is more or less on the same page. Of course this would be as pointless of those other tools of democratic oppression I mentioned, assemblies and referendums. F**k are you ever good at pretending to be stupid. Quote Or are you saying you're struggling with the English language in genereal. It's always a treat to watch you do this. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted June 22, 2023 Report Posted June 22, 2023 14 minutes ago, CdnFox said: All you're talking about is having the gov't occasionally allow them to have an opinion AND frankly what are you going to do if they decide NOT to call a referendum OR citizesn assembly? It's not like you can vote them out of power. No you draft the next one in. F**K do you ever excel at pretending to be stupid. 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
CdnFox Posted June 22, 2023 Author Report Posted June 22, 2023 1 minute ago, eyeball said: Of course this would be as pointless of those other tools of democratic oppression I mentioned, assemblies and referendums. Are you suggesting letting unelected MP's elect the gov't is somehow democratic? Quote F**k are you ever good at pretending to be stupid. you're definitely not pretending, so you got me there. If you randomly pick people and the public has no say, it's not a democratic process. That's my point. Now - you can argue it doesn't need to be, or you can make some other argument, but having a hissy fit because i pointed out a simple truth isn't constructive. And that would just be the beginnings of the problem with that model. I get your'e trying to come up with something that's less likely to be susseptible to corruption but the model you proposed would be undemocratic and largely unworkable even without getting into the smaller details. 4 minutes ago, eyeball said: No you draft the next one in. Why? Whats' to say they'd be any different? Quote F**K do you ever excel at not pretending to be stupid. Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
eyeball Posted June 22, 2023 Report Posted June 22, 2023 13 minutes ago, CdnFox said: If you randomly pick people and the public has no say, it's not a democratic process. That's my point. Now - you can argue it doesn't need to be, or you can make some other argument, but having a hissy fit because i pointed out a simple truth isn't constructive. Except you completely ignored clear arguments I've made for public democratic processes such as referendums and assemblies. 10 minutes ago, CdnFox said: I get your'e trying to come up with something that's less likely to be susseptible to corruption but the model you proposed would be undemocratic and largely unworkable even without getting into the smaller details. Why, just because you say so, who the f**k are you? Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
CdnFox Posted June 22, 2023 Author Report Posted June 22, 2023 54 minutes ago, eyeball said: Except you completely ignored clear arguments I've made for public democratic processes such as referendums and assemblies. I addressed it very directly and specifically. Since the public would not control that process or when it was triggered, nor create the questions, nor be able to fire the random gov't if they didn't do it, there would still be basically no democratic process. You would be at the mercy of the unelected government. Quote Why, just because you say so, who the f**k are you? I'm the guy who's smart enough and experienced enough to know you're trying to come up with something that's less likely to be susceptible to corruption but the model you proposed would be undemocratic and largely unworkable even without getting into the smaller details. Look, i'm sorry and i'm not trying to upset you but the idea is severely flawed - at the end of the day you would still have an unelected body who had complete control over the process for what limited public input there would be. This violates many of the basic tenets of a democracy. You might as well randomly appoint a king every 5 years. Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
eyeball Posted June 22, 2023 Report Posted June 22, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, CdnFox said: Since the public would not control that process or when it was triggered... ...You might as well randomly appoint a king every 5 years. Or draft a new Parliament every 5 years. Betchya that never crossed your mind. Maybe first though we could have one of those public referendum democratic process thingys. Perhaps the public would be perfectly happy with the Parliament at the moment and decide to forgo a draft. You could easily bake a review process into things if you wanted to, by a recall vote for example. Another democratic process. 31 minutes ago, CdnFox said: I'm the guy who's smart enough and experienced enough to know you're trying to come up with something that's less likely to be susceptible to corruption Add what on Earth is wrong with that? Edited June 22, 2023 by eyeball Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Moonbox Posted June 23, 2023 Report Posted June 23, 2023 5 hours ago, Contrarian said: Let's be honest, how much is Uncle Sam paying you to come here and play @ExFlyer? Brother, how come a strong man like you spends his time to submit reports when ONE like you can teach these folks something?! Were you drinking today or something? Your posts today were WEIRD. 1 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
CdnFox Posted June 23, 2023 Author Report Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, eyeball said: Or draft a new Parliament every 5 years. Betchya that never crossed your mind. What, rob people of their freedom of choice for 5 years by forcing them to serve at a job they may or may not be qualified for without their consent while their careers or businesses they've spent time building languish as they fall behind and then cut them loose unemployed as part of an undemocratic process of leadership selection as an alternative to a monarchy? Well - ya got me there. It has literally never crossed my mind. Quote Maybe first though we could have one of those public referendum democratic process thingys. Maybe - it would be up to the undemocratically elected gov't to decide. 1 hour ago, eyeball said: Perhaps the public would be perfectly happy with the Parliament at the moment and decide to forgo a draft. So people might be forced to do a job they don't want to for TEN years. Yeah - that makes it better. Quote You could easily bake a review process into things if you wanted to, by a recall vote for example. How do you unelect someone who's never been elected? It's not like he's broken his promises or the like. And with no election campaigns or parties how would the public have any reason to believe the next guy wouldn't be even worse? Quote Add what on Earth is wrong with that? Nothing in the slightest. It's a good thing to do, if we didn't do that on occasion we'd still have emperors. However - you'll have to accept that any ideas you come up wiht will have to stand up to the acid test of peer review and consider the challenges with your model. It's not a criticism of YOU. Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Moonbox Posted June 23, 2023 Report Posted June 23, 2023 16 minutes ago, Contrarian said: Yes, how come you focus on me and my Whiskey? I just haven't understood your posts today. 16 minutes ago, Contrarian said: Brother, not only I crashed both domains, I think theoreticaly if one places a device into antifa or proudboys toronto, imagine the publicity one would get? It would be interesting. 16 minutes ago, Contrarian said: I am waiting for some help from the IT men here. How come such a domain switch is so hard? I don't know what you mean with this. 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
SpankyMcFarland Posted June 23, 2023 Report Posted June 23, 2023 On 6/22/2023 at 12:16 AM, CdnFox said: I've met max a few times - he's a character and as a person he's likeable. And the guy got in trouble for accidentally leaving classified documents a the house of a biker chick he banged and having to go back and pick them up That's pretty badass Such a relationship showed poor judgement. Cabinet ministers should have left their wild days long behind them. I once spent an afternoon sailing with a Quebecer called Couillard. His wife was a Bernier. Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
ExFlyer Posted June 23, 2023 Report Posted June 23, 2023 17 hours ago, eyeball said: Ummmm... .... F**k are you ever good at pretending to be stupid. ... Pretending?? Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
CdnFox Posted June 23, 2023 Author Report Posted June 23, 2023 1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Such a relationship showed poor judgement. Cabinet ministers should have left their wild days long behind them. Sure - and i dont' think he was in danger of becoming the next leadership hopeful at that time and he did get punished for it. But it's still pretty badass Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
I am Groot Posted June 23, 2023 Report Posted June 23, 2023 The PPC hasn't got a chance because those on the right despise Trudeau so much a lot of them consider him to be an existential threat to the country's existence. They don't dare vote for another right-wing party and split the vote. Whether they're enthusiastic about Poilievre and his policies or not. He's still considered an enormous improvement over Trudeau. Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
eyeball Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 Many on the right see existential extinction in lots of stuff, Trudeau is just one more thing. If Jesus Christ himself was in charge of the Liberals they'd mock his hair too. The fact a sizable portion of Poilievre's base of support is so effectively deplorable will not be lost on many come election time. Whatever good he might accomplish while in power won't be worth whatever he uses to appease it. 2 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
I am Groot Posted June 24, 2023 Report Posted June 24, 2023 1 hour ago, eyeball said: The fact a sizable portion of Poilievre's base of support is so effectively deplorable How sizeable? And in whose opinion? A sizeable portion of Trudeau's support base is damned deplorable to me too. Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
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