Why Canada has no moral leadership

[blackbird]

This website describes how in the U.S. most Catholics disagree with their church on abortion and LGBT issues.

No confusion about a new poll: Most U.S. Catholics disagree with church leaders on abortion and L.G.B.T. issues | America Magazine

In other words most Catholics in the U.S. and likely Canada support abortion (free choice) and support the LGBT agenda, in spite of what some of their church leadership might believe.  This seems to be the situation in many, if not most countries, proving the world is really a fallen, corrupt place as the Bible teaches.  "23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"  Romans 3:23 KJV

It is clear in the Catholic religion everyone is free to support whatever they wish and there are no consequences as far as their church is concerned.  It seems clear their religion has practically no impact on their beliefs on moral issues.  How does that fit with the Bible's teaching?  "17  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. "  Matthew 7:17-20 KJV  If seems that Catholicism has no impact on morality and thus again demonstrates it cannot be a true Biblical religion.  

This is why many politicians who are Catholic are completely free to pass laws and do whatever they wish whether it is contrary to their church's teachings or not.  

This would appear to be one reason Canada is at the forefront in the world for a number of immoral laws and practices.  Examples are no laws against abortion or even controlling it,  legalized euthanasia or medical assistance in dying (even being planned for those with mental problems as the sole criteria).  Other laws and legal practices are legalized same-sex marriage. gambling casinos are widespread, legalized marijuana, legalized hard drugs in some places, internet gambling, teaching sexual orientation and gender identity to young school kids.  This moral vacuum so to speak will influence all laws and government decisions.  Nothing has any moral basis or foundation behind it.  The country then becomes like a ship without a rudder drifting aimlessly in the sea.  There is a vast moral vacuum.

[Queenmandy85]

Do you believe the government should restrict who you can fall in love with, dictate your personal moral code, prohibit you from using surgery to aliegn your physical gender with the psychological gender you were given by God? This type of government intervention in our daily lives is communism. As a conservative, I believe we must be free to make our own decisions, including mistakes. Is the government responsible to protect us from ourselves?

The issue of teaching children that sexual orientation and gender identity is normal will, hopefully, reduce the level of bullying and suicide among children. Since God created 4 million gay Canadians, God must be fine with it. 

We have a so-called Christian school in Saskatoon, that has a history of beating children with paddles if they are suspected of being gay. That is a crime against God. 

 

Edited April 19, 2023 by Queenmandy85

[cougar]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

This website describes how in the U.S. most Catholics disagree with their church on abortion and LGBT issues.

No confusion about a new poll: Most U.S. Catholics disagree with church leaders on abortion and L.G.B.T. issues | America Magazine

In other words most Catholics in the U.S. and likely Canada support abortion (free choice) and support the LGBT agenda, in spite of what some of their church leadership might believe.  This seems to be the situation in many, if not most countries, proving the world is really a fallen, corrupt place as the Bible teaches.  "23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"  Romans 3:23 KJV

It is clear in the Catholic religion everyone is free to support whatever they wish and there are no consequences as far as their church is concerned.  It seems clear their religion has practically no impact on their beliefs on moral issues.  How does that fit with the Bible's teaching?  "17  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. "  Matthew 7:17-20 KJV  If seems that Catholicism has no impact on morality and thus again demonstrates it cannot be a true Biblical religion.  

This is why many politicians who are Catholic are completely free to pass laws and do whatever they wish whether it is contrary to their church's teachings or not.  

This would appear to be one reason Canada is at the forefront in the world for a number of immoral laws and practices.  Examples are no laws against abortion or even controlling it,  legalized euthanasia or medical assistance in dying (even being planned for those with mental problems as the sole criteria).  Other laws and legal practices are legalized same-sex marriage. gambling casinos are widespread, legalized marijuana, legalized hard drugs in some places, internet gambling, teaching sexual orientation and gender identity to young school kids.  This moral vacuum so to speak will influence all laws and government decisions.  Nothing has any moral basis or foundation behind it.  The country then becomes like a ship without a rudder drifting aimlessly in the sea.  There is a vast moral vacuum.

Blackbird, you once again sound like someone who is unsure of his moral compass and relies on the Bible to tell him what is right or wrong.

Which country you think has "moral leadership"?

 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

 As a conservative, I believe we must be free to make our own decisions, including mistakes. 

I suppose that conservatives have always relied on individuals to act and speak in support of a moral community.   As such, and given that we are 'free' ... is there such a thing as a "good" or "bad" society ?

Individuals making free choices will contribute to the moral sphere of a society.   We can and should say something about it, on an individual to individual basis, but the morality of such a setup will arrive much as the economy and general culture arrives.  These things are simply consequences of millions of rolled-up choices.

The biggest change I can see, therefore, is not the secularization of religions... neither the acceptance of sexual diversity, divorce, or the apparent growth of things like greed, gluttony, sloth etc.  The biggest change I can see is the changing role of media from a platform of public discussion to one of endless and meaningless spectacle... even glorifying morality.

Moral hierarchy would help focus our criticism of this phenomenon, but I don't think we have such a thing anymore.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Do you believe the government should restrict who you can fall in love with, dictate your personal moral code, prohibit you from using surgery to aliegn your physical gender with the psychological gender you were given by God? This type of government intervention in our daily lives is communism. As a conservative, I believe we must be free to make our own decisions, including mistakes. Is the government responsible to protect us from ourselves?

The issue of teaching children that sexual orientation and gender identity is normal will, hopefully, reduce the level of bullying and suicide among children. Since God created 4 million gay Canadians, God must be fine with it. 

We have a so-called Christian school that has a history of beating children with paddles if they are suspected of being gay. That is a crime against God. 

 

The state shouldn’t be dictating in those areas, but the state shouldn’t be overriding the medical discretion of parents for medical decisions for their children.  Gender affirmation of children by the state and schools is fraught because children often don’t make decisions in their own best interests.  State intervention is too high in Canada and getting worse.  One of the problems with publicly funded healthcare is that the state makes decisions about what surgeries to fund, including for kids.  State funding of a procedure is a form of incentive for getting the procedure.

An adult choosing to pay for a sex change is one thing. When the state funds such procedures for children and has a policy of “gender affirmation”, the state faces liability for potential child mutilation and abuse.  Those kids grow up and can sue for damages.  The state proxies could also be held criminally responsible.

Edited April 19, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

27 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I suppose that conservatives have always relied on individuals to act and speak in support of a moral community.   As such, and given that we are 'free' ... is there such a thing as a "good" or "bad" society ?

Individuals making free choices will contribute to the moral sphere of a society.   We can and should say something about it, on an individual to individual basis, but the morality of such a setup will arrive much as the economy and general culture arrives.  These things are simply consequences of millions of rolled-up choices.

The biggest change I can see, therefore, is not the secularization of religions... neither the acceptance of sexual diversity, divorce, or the apparent growth of things like greed, gluttony, sloth etc.  The biggest change I can see is the changing role of media from a platform of public discussion to one of endless and meaningless spectacle... even glorifying morality.

Moral hierarchy would help focus our criticism of this phenomenon, but I don't think we have such a thing anymore.

All legislation is a reflection of public morality.  Law and policy are not amoral. 

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

prohibit you from using surgery to aliegn your physical gender with the psychological gender you were given by God?

Pure fiction.   Studies show people are not born gay. The reality of people's experiences demonstrate they were not "born that way".  Science has found no proof people are born that way.

"Massive Study Finds No Single Genetic Cause of Same-Sex Sexual Behavior"

Massive Study Finds No Single Genetic Cause of Same-Sex Sexual Behavior - Scientific American

"Is sexuality purely the result of our biology? Brandon Ambrosino argues that simplistic explanations have ignored the fluid, shape-shifting nature of our desires."

‘I am gay – but I wasn’t born this way’ - BBC Future

"For decades, “born this way” has been the rallying cry of the mainstream gay rights movement, a simple slogan cited as the basis for both political change and cultural acceptance."

'Born this way'? For many in LGBT community, it's way more complex (usatoday.com)

There is no ‘gay gene.’ There is no ‘straight gene.’ Sexuality is just complex, study confirms | PBS NewsHour

"Scholars at the esteemed Johns Hopkins University studied the origins of homosexuality and found there is insufficient evidence to say gay, lesbian, or transgender people are born this way (sexual orientation or gender identity).

They believe Homosexuality is caused by a variety of factors, including childhood sexual molestation and social pressures.

Many Americans believe people are born gay or transgender and others believe individuals choose that type of lifestyle. It’s a hot topic and people on the left, especially LGBTs, follow the dictum that gays and transgenders are born that way."

John Hopkins Refutes Myth that Homosexuals Are ‘Born this Way.’ (independentsentinel.com)

However, this is not the only moral issue and there are many other issues that are important such as how respect for human life, that is, the sanctity of (human) life, which is not respected.  We now have MAID and abortion on demand.

Leftism or Socialism is another issue that involves morality.  There is a serious absence of morality in the country and governing.

Edited April 19, 2023 by blackbird

[Michael Hardner]

50 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

All legislation is a reflection of public morality.  Law and policy are not amoral. 

I think it's sometimes a reflection of authoritative morality, not "public" morality.

Stronger gun control, in some respects, is overwhelmingly favoured by the American "public" yet it will not pass.

Capital punishment was favoured by a majority of Canadians for years, and still is but will not be passed into law.

[Zeitgeist]

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think it's sometimes a reflection of authoritative morality, not "public" morality.

Stronger gun control, in some respects, is overwhelmingly favoured by the American "public" yet it will not pass.

Capital punishment was favoured by a majority of Canadians for years, and still is but will not be passed into law.

Well public authority is delegated to Parliament.  The Supreme Court also plays a role in interpreting constitutionality.  The rights in the Constitution are written by constitutional lawyers with the advice of government.  You’re correct that to some extent the US is stuck (or blessed depending on your opinion) with the 2nd Amendment.  The majority of the public may want more gun control but the system probably doesn’t have the public support and ease of process to remove that right.

Capital punishment can probably be reinstated fairly easily if it could get enough support from Parliament.  I don’t see that happening because generally the public accepts gun control in the cities and Canada is getting more urban.

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The issue of teaching children that sexual orientation and gender identity is normal will, hopefully, reduce the level of bullying and suicide among children.

Teaching "children" such a thing is child abuse.  No child should be told such a thing.  There is no evidence that teaching that kind of thing will reduce bullying.   In fact, in B.C. they started teaching sexual orientation and gender identity in schools about eight years ago and the amount of violent behavior is high in Surrey, B.C.  No sign that teaching SOGI has improved the behavior of young people. They could teach children to be kind to one another without exception and bring the Bible back into schools as once was the case.  The public school system has become an ideological base for the woke, secularism, and the left.

Edited April 19, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

We have a so-called Christian school in Saskatoon, that has a history of beating children with paddles if they are suspected of being gay. That is a crime against God. 

We have always had the odd institution with cult or aberrant behavior.  Of course I would not agree with beating anybody with paddles.  If you want to pick isolated cases of bad behavior, I am sure we can look through history and find plenty.  We have been hearing plenty about rampant sexual abuse in Hockey Canada for example and millions of dollars in settlements for it.  Did you ever hear of anyone going to jail for that? 

 We hear of random attacks against innocent citizens by knife wielding mental cases every day and governments that have done nothing about it and courts that release offenders immediately after they are arrested.  Society is full of crime and corruption.  

Sexual abuse has been common in many different groups of society.  Bad behavior is common and not only in one Christian school that you single out.  Immoral behavior is common at all levels of government as well.  There is no moral foundation except for a small number of people. Mount Cashel boarding school in Newfoundland was a major issue for decades.  Read about that. A few years back a group of young men in a Catholic high school in Toronto were charged for sexual and physical abuse of one student. They were sticking a broom handle up his rear end. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

1. Well public authority is delegated to Parliament.  The Supreme Court also plays a role in interpreting constitutionality.  The rights in the Constitution are written by constitutional lawyers with the advice of government.  You’re correct that to some extent the US is stuck (or blessed depending on your opinion) with the 2nd Amendment.  
2. The majority of the public may want more gun control but the system probably doesn’t have the public support and ease of process to remove that right.

3. Capital punishment can probably be reinstated fairly easily if it could get enough support from Parliament.  I don’t see that happening because generally the public accepts gun control in the cities and Canada is getting more urban.

1.  Yes so... my point is that these things don't necessarily reflect "public" morality.

2. 3. Additional restrictions could be added without constitutional changes though.  And either way, the "system", legislation and framing documents once again don't reflect "public" morality.

 

[herbie]

WhyTF does every thread degenerate into rants about trannies? What's the obscene fixation with the subject? And who the hell has the right to judge what someone else does with their body?

 

[Michael Hardner]

26 minutes ago, herbie said:

WhyTF does every thread degenerate into rants about trannies? What's the obscene fixation with the subject? And who the hell has the right to judge what someone else does with their body?

Because it's tinder for flame wars.

It's almost the only frontier for making policy changes to accommodate new identifiable groups of people, and socially conservative people - especially those who have no experience with this group - see their issues as ridiculous.

The importance of these issues is pretty small, if you look at the macro level, and I think de-emphasizing it would actually help the oppressed group BUT we don't discuss things to work out solutions, we discuss things because we like fighting.

[herbie]

Sadly true. But don't you get annoyed by fundamentalists questioning your own morals if you don't condemn non-traditional groups?

barber shop quartet: Who put the mental in fundamental?

[Michael Hardner]

12 minutes ago, herbie said:

1. But don't you get annoyed by fundamentalists ...

2. barber shop quartet 

1. Me ?  No.  If they think I have to follow their codes they're just mistaken
2. Let's not

[I am Groot]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

WhyTF does every thread degenerate into rants about trannies? What's the obscene fixation with the subject? And who the hell has the right to judge what someone else does with their body?

I don't think anyone really cares what adults do with their bodies. As long as it doesn't involve unfairness towards women from male-bodied individuals.

[blackbird]

16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Me ?  No.  If they think I have to follow their codes they're just mistaken
2. Let's not

You are at war against Biblical Christianity and you support Herbie in his opposition to "fundamentalism" or Biblical Christianity; yet you call yourself a Christian?  There is only one Christian set of beliefs as the Bible teaches.   How do you explain your opposition to Christianity while claiming to be a Christian?   You can't have it both ways.  

Edited April 19, 2023 by blackbird

[Michael Hardner]

39 minutes ago, blackbird said:

1. You are at war against Biblical Christianity and you support Herbie in his opposition to "fundamentalism" or Biblical Christianity; yet you call yourself a Christian? 

2. There is only one Christian set of beliefs as the Bible teaches.   How do you explain your opposition to Christianity while claiming to be a Christian?   You can't have it both ways.  

1. Yes.  You ignore the new testament and the teachings of Jesus himself to wallow in those passages in Leviticus that support your prejudices.  You refuse to open your heart.

2. I follow the philosophy of Christianity.  I don't think that you do.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yes.  You ignore the new testament and the teachings of Jesus himself to wallow in those passages in Leviticus that support your prejudices.  You refuse to open your heart.

2. I follow the philosophy of Christianity.  I don't think that you do.

I don't think so Michael.

"The Bible is consistent through both Old and New Testaments in confirming that homosexuality is sin (Genesis 19:1–13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26–27; 1 Corinthians 6:9; 1 Timothy 1:10; Jude 1:7). In this matter, the New Testament reinforces what the Old Testament had declared since the Law was given to Moses (Leviticus 20:13). The difference between the Old and New Testaments is that the New Testament offers hope and restoration to those caught up in the sin of homosexuality through the redeeming power of Jesus. It is the same hope that is offered to anyone who chooses to accept it (John 1:12; 3:16–18)"

What does the New Testament say about homosexuality? | GotQuestions.org

[blackbird]

The reason why Canada has no moral leadership is because those in power believe in secular humanist ideology or liberalism rather than Judeo-Christian principles based on God's revelation to man, the Holy Scriptures.  Many of these leaders and their supporters are Papists which do not accept the Bible as any kind of guide or authority.  There are even some from other apostate denominations who also reject Judeo-Christian principles which are Biblical principles.

[herbie]

Barbershop quartet returns:

Who took the fun out of fun-damental?  ♪♪

[Zeitgeist]

On 4/19/2023 at 8:25 AM, blackbird said:

This website describes how in the U.S. most Catholics disagree with their church on abortion and LGBT issues.

No confusion about a new poll: Most U.S. Catholics disagree with church leaders on abortion and L.G.B.T. issues | America Magazine

In other words most Catholics in the U.S. and likely Canada support abortion (free choice) and support the LGBT agenda, in spite of what some of their church leadership might believe.  This seems to be the situation in many, if not most countries, proving the world is really a fallen, corrupt place as the Bible teaches.  "23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"  Romans 3:23 KJV

It is clear in the Catholic religion everyone is free to support whatever they wish and there are no consequences as far as their church is concerned.  It seems clear their religion has practically no impact on their beliefs on moral issues.  How does that fit with the Bible's teaching?  "17  Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18  A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19  Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20  Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. "  Matthew 7:17-20 KJV  If seems that Catholicism has no impact on morality and thus again demonstrates it cannot be a true Biblical religion.  

This is why many politicians who are Catholic are completely free to pass laws and do whatever they wish whether it is contrary to their church's teachings or not.  

This would appear to be one reason Canada is at the forefront in the world for a number of immoral laws and practices.  Examples are no laws against abortion or even controlling it,  legalized euthanasia or medical assistance in dying (even being planned for those with mental problems as the sole criteria).  Other laws and legal practices are legalized same-sex marriage. gambling casinos are widespread, legalized marijuana, legalized hard drugs in some places, internet gambling, teaching sexual orientation and gender identity to young school kids.  This moral vacuum so to speak will influence all laws and government decisions.  Nothing has any moral basis or foundation behind it.  The country then becomes like a ship without a rudder drifting aimlessly in the sea.  There is a vast moral vacuum.

This is actually what Putin is talking about in his speeches.  It’s a very weak spot for the West, which makes it hard for Canada, the US, and NATO countries to claim any moral high ground.  Our only strength is in ensuring that there’s democratic self-determination in all regions of the Ukraine, by the Ukrainians for the Ukrainians.  I just hope that we aren’t messing with their democratic processes.  I hope they’re democratic.

[Zeitgeist]

On 4/19/2023 at 6:26 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yes.  You ignore the new testament and the teachings of Jesus himself to wallow in those passages in Leviticus that support your prejudices.  You refuse to open your heart.

2. I follow the philosophy of Christianity.  I don't think that you do.

Michael you’re so anything goes and sympathetic to communists that you make the United Church look like Seventh Day Adventists.