Canada wrongly supports a "two-state" solution for Israel

[BeaverFever]

On 4/9/2023 at 4:48 AM, Mako said:

Both sides have committed violent acts but that strikes me as a trivial observation, true of every military conflict.
 

The Zionists/Israelis have been the primary aggressor and they possess a far larger military machine thanks to AIPAC and the American taxpayer. They have done most of the killing.

https://www.wrmea.org/1994-july-august/begin-s-admission-in-1982-that-israel-started-three-of-its-wars.html

While am interesting read, I differentiate between the external wars with neighbouring Arab countries and the internal conflict with Palestinians and I’m less concerned about the former  IMO, the latter is a resolved issue Egypt is not going to invade Israel any time soon  

Everyone has to admit that at some point both sides reached the max high score and argument over “who started it first” and whose killings are worse than the other guy’s killings is pointless. 

[CdnFox]

30 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

There has never been an atheist crusade or jihad. Nobody has ever been put to the sword in the name of atheism.

Well - setting aside that a crusade or jihad is literally a religious war so your statement is both correct and silly at the same time, and assuming that you mean people haven't been killed for their beliefs by people who don't believe in their god or any god, i have to say that's not entirely accurate.

In fact hitler and the nazi's would be a great example. HE was not a religious man at all and only considered religion as a political tool - yet he slaughtered the Jews specifically because they were Jewish.  That's pretty much an atheist in charge of a gov't that was supposed to be atheist going after a religious group.

There are many other examples in history. I don't think you could really defend that statement other than by getting severely petty over the definition of atheist.

[BeaverFever]

On 4/9/2023 at 1:10 PM, Army Guy said:

I'll explain this again, we were talking about Hamas, Hamas controls Gaza strip, and their authority ends there at the city limits Gaza is not occupied, it is control completely by Hamas. Israel has allowed them self government gave it to them on a silver platter, and yet the rockets keep coming, it proves that they are not concerned with freedom as you suggest they are more concerned with making war with Israel. and why would they give the same to the west bank ? 

How do you know if it is bullshit, has peace ever happened, you look back on all the peace agreements signed and look at which organization has picked the fight back up, and you'll have your answer it is fact not bullshit...There is to much hate for there to be any peace... and if there is not going to be any peace might as well force them out ... but you can't see that...

1) why are you trying to limit the discussion to only Gaza and not the west bank or Golan?  They are all part of the same issue is linked 

2) Gaza is still not a sovereign state the powers granted to it by Israel are limited and Israel still controls its borders. Israel has turned Gaza into an open air prison and the inmates are allowed to police themselves inside their own walls 

If Israel was serious about peace it would dismantle all illegal settlements or at least freeze building new ones while participating in peace talks.  They haven’t done anything to show they’re inter In peace.  The last Israeli leader to seriously attempt peace talks was in the 1990s and he was assassinated by a right wing extremist,  supposedly a lone wolf but IIRC he had some ties to Likud and Mossad and hardliners have been running the government ever since  

 

[BeaverFever]

Just now, CdnFox said:

Well - setting aside that a crusade or jihad is literally a religious war so your statement is both correct and silly at the same time, and assuming that you mean people haven't been killed for their beliefs by people who don't believe in their god or any god, i have to say that's not entirely accurate.

In fact hitler and the nazi's would be a great example. HE was not a religious man at all and only considered religion as a political tool - yet he slaughtered the Jews specifically because they were Jewish.  That's pretty much an atheist in charge of a gov't that was supposed to be atheist going after a religious group.

There are many other examples in history. I don't think you could really defend that statement other than by getting severely petty over the definition of atheist.

No it’s not silly and it is correct  History has no atheist equivalent of a crusade or jihad, meaning nobody has ever started a war for the purpose of forcing a land or people to come under atheist rule. The closest anyone can claim is the USSR and the cold war communist countries as communism was a package of economic, philosophical and political beliefs of which atheism was just one and often the least enforced of them. Atheism was not the motivator of communist atrocities. 

The German people themselves were not atheists and the Nazis never promoted or endorsed it. They only promoted Christianity. 

[Army Guy]

21 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

So you think Palestinians just hate Israel for no reason? Do you think they're genetically programmed to hate Israel or something?

Well you must think that reason is strong enough to resort to terrorism, is that where your thought process is right now, supporting terrorism...and the same question is often asked by the Israelis side do you think the Palestinians have given no reason for them to be involved in this conflict...given the treatment the Israelis have received from that corner of the world, and in early history by the rest of the world. 

I think they are taught hatred at an early stages of their life's, and know nothing else...conflict breeds nothing but hatred, destruction and consumes their entire life's, it is taught at schools, in their mosques, by their government , it is in every conversation....do you still think there is a peaceful solution ?... they have chosen war, death and destruction instead of peace, you can feel sorry for them, but not me...this is what they want...this is what they voted for, this is what they live for...

[Americana Antifa]

11 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I think they are taught hatred at an early stages of their life's, and know nothing else...conflict breeds nothing but hatred, destruction and consumes their entire life's, it is taught at schools, in their mosques, by their government , it is in every conversation....do you still think there is a peaceful solution ?... they have chosen war, death and destruction instead of peace, you can feel sorry for them, but not me...this is what they want...this is what they voted for, this is what they live for...

So basically, Israel's blockade and constant war crimes have created a situation that breeds hatred in the Palestinian population.

So what if, and I'm just spitballing here, Israel ends the blockade and starts treating Palestinians like human beings? Would that help to end the conditions that create terrorists?

[Army Guy]

On 4/5/2023 at 10:43 PM, Americana Antifa said:

Because the reason they believe Israel doesn't have a right to exist is a result of decades of war crimes Israel has committed. If Israel agreed to a two state solution, paid reparations, and started being a good neighbor to the other countries in the region, much fewer Arabs would be against Israel's existence.

Bullshit....i see you have not read any of the history of that region, have you... Arabs as you call them, in the region have been trying to kill Jews well before Israel became a state...in fact they have fought many wars just becasue they have decided to push Israel into the sea, sounds very neiborly to me, they threw the welcome mat out there did they not... and they have been fighting since Israel declared itself a state... Has any of the Muslim decided to pay Israel reparations for any of those wars... not a chance...i get it though your a liberal and have blinders on, and have a need to yell and scream.... 

Has the US paid reparations to the their indigenous people, Japanese Americans ,what about black slaves, what about the British...no why not. I guess the US is like Canada we like to throw stones at glass houses as well, and point fingers and blame others...and according to you your country is full of Nazi's i would think you would have enough problems without taking on someone elses... But what do i know...

 

[Army Guy]

1 minute ago, Americana Antifa said:

So basically, Israel's blockade and constant war crimes have created a situation that breeds hatred in the Palestinian population.

So what if, and I'm just spitballing here, Israel ends the blockade and starts treating Palestinians like human beings? Would that help to end the conditions that create terrorists?

Is there a block aid right now, No there is not, war crimes give me a break...This is a war, and in war only the losers get held responsible, do you see Palestinians winning any time soon... 

your way to emotionally attached and are not looking at all the facts, don't worry it is becasue your a liberal and can not see both sides of anything...Israel ha s given Gaza strip full anatomy, and still the rockets fly .... how much more do YOU want .... they do have the right to decide you works in Israel, who they sell products to, who is allow in or out of their country.... and what their infra structure supports...or is that against the law now to... instead of spending all their funding on war materials they could i don't know build their own infra structure... 

So the answer to your question is no, it has not helped...

[Americana Antifa]

4 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Bullshit....i see you have not read any of the history of that region, have you... Arabs as you call them, in the region have been trying to kill Jews well before Israel became a state...

You're talking about Arabs like they're a small group of people. There are many different Arab nationalities and populations. When Palestine was a country, the Arabs and Jews there got along well. Arabs in countries like Egypt or Saudi Arabia are a different story with different conditions.

4 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

in fact they have fought many wars just becasue they have decided to push Israel into the sea, sounds very neiborly to me, they threw the welcome mat out there did they not... and they have been fighting since Israel declared itself a state... Has any of the Muslim decided to pay Israel reparations for any of those wars... not a chance...i get it though your a liberal and have blinders on, and have a need to yell and scream.... 

See, this is what I mean. You're legit treating the entire Muslim world as one group of people. This would be like saying China is justified in oppressing Christians because the KKK is Christian. Israel's blockade is not justified because other Muslim population attacked Israel.

Quote

But what do i know...

Very little.

[Army Guy]

38 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

1) why are you trying to limit the discussion to only Gaza and not the west bank or Golan?  They are all part of the same issue is linked 

2) Gaza is still not a sovereign state the powers granted to it by Israel are limited and Israel still controls its borders. Israel has turned Gaza into an open air prison and the inmates are allowed to police themselves inside their own walls 

If Israel was serious about peace it would dismantle all illegal settlements or at least freeze building new ones while participating in peace talks.  They haven’t done anything to show they’re inter In peace.  The last Israeli leader to seriously attempt peace talks was in the 1990s and he was assassinated by a right wing extremist,  supposedly a lone wolf but IIRC he had some ties to Likud and Mossad and hardliners have been running the government ever since  

 

I mentioned GAZA because you where talking about HAMAS, Hamas is in control of Gaza the west bank is controlled by a group call Fatah. Gaza was granted full rights to govern themselves, it was given to them on a silver platter, have you seen a decrease in violence in that region, are the rockets still flying ?...so why would they grant Fatah the same rights in the west bank... Golan heights, not going to happen, Syria lost that position on the map after using it repeatedly to attack Israel towns and cities, now it is under the hands of Israel, after Syria attacked Israel...it is a war prize....they were warned many times, and refused...and the Syrians that live there prefer it over living under Syrian rule... read the link below.. Sounds like a leaving hell .

 

Quote

The Druze living in the Golan Heights are permanent residents of Israel. They hold laissez-passers issued by the Israeli government, and enjoy the country's social-welfare benefits.^[188] The pro-Israeli Druze were historically ostracized by the pro-Syrian Druze.^[189] Reluctance to accept citizenship also reflects fear of ill treatment or displacement by Syrian authorities should the Golan Heights eventually be returned to Syria.^[190] According to The Independent, most Druze in the Golan Heights live relatively comfortable lives in a freer society than they would have in Syria under Assad's government.^[

Quote

The Economist likewise reported that "Some optimists see the future Golan as a sort of Hong Kong, continuing to enjoy the perks of Israel's dynamic economy and open society, while coming back under the sovereignty of a stricter, less developed Syria." The Druze are also reportedly well-educated and relatively prosperous, and have made use of Israel's universities.^[193]

 

Golan Heights - Wikipedia

[Americana Antifa]

12 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Is there a block aid right now, No there is not, war crimes give me a break...This is a war, and in war only the losers get held responsible, do you see Palestinians winning any time soon... 

Yes, there is a blockade and war crimes. No, it's not a war. A war is two countries with militaries fighting each other. What's happening in Israel is an apartheid situation.

Quote

your way to emotionally attached and are not looking at all the facts, don't worry it is becasue your a liberal and can not see both sides of anything

I'm a leftist, not a liberal.

Projection. You're assuming Muslims are just genetically programmed to hate Jews without considering the situation Israel has created. You're the one not looking at both sides of the situation.

Quote

how much more do YOU want

I want the blockade to end, for Palestinians to be treated equally in Israel, and for the Israeli government to pay reparations to the families that lived in Gaza. If the idea of having Arabs in Israel is just so horrible, then Israel should allow a two state solution.

 

 

[Army Guy]

15 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

You're talking about Arabs like they're a small group of people. There are many different Arab nationalities and populations. When Palestine was a country, the Arabs and Jews there got along well. Arabs in countries like Egypt or Saudi Arabia are a different story with different conditions.

See, this is what I mean. You're legit treating the entire Muslim world as one group of people. This would be like saying China is justified in oppressing Christians because the KKK is Christian. Israel's blockade is not justified because other Muslim population attacked Israel.

Very little.

Palestine has never been a country, and the original Palestinian people were wonderers that travel across many different borders of land...and back then Jews were treated very poorly so much for that bullshit....

The statement i made was to show you. that all of Israel neighbors were not nice in fact all of them have been involved in several wars with Israel to push them into the sea...you would have know that had you done some reading...and your hero's the Palestinians took place in those wars and were driven from their lands in those counter attacks...like i said it sucks when you lose...most of those nations involved in those attacks have signed peace agreements with Israel, well except that small little group that call themselves Palestinians...and Syria... 

[Army Guy]

11 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Yes, there is a blockade and war crimes. No, it's not a war. A war is two countries with militaries fighting each other. What's happening in Israel is an apartheid situation.

I'm a leftist, not a liberal.

Projection. You're assuming Muslims are just genetically programmed to hate Jews without considering the situation Israel has created. You're the one not looking at both sides of the situation.

I want the blockade to end, for Palestinians to be treated equally in Israel, and for the Israeli government to pay reparations to the families that lived in Gaza. If the idea of having Arabs in Israel is just so horrible, then Israel should allow a two state solution.

 

 

Look this is going to go around and around, and i don't have the energy to argue with you as you refuse to do some reading... 

- there is no blockade .... Palestine have their own chunk of land to screw up... Israel is it's own country and can make it own laws like any other nation. reparations are not going to happen, that is your dream not theirs...and finally 2 state solution is not going to happen, never unless some leftist government takes control of Israel, and thats not going to happen either... this is what the facts are, this conflict will keep going on for decades becasue neither side will compromise, and one day Palestinians will push to hard and they will be scattered to the desert... and you can shed tears if you want... nothing you or i say is going to change that, you have a choice support terrorist or democracy...

[BeaverFever]

22 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I mentioned GAZA because you where talking about HAMAS, Hamas is in control of Gaza the west bank is controlled by a group call Fatah. Gaza was granted full rights to govern themselves, it was given to them on a silver platter, have you seen a decrease in violence in that region, are the rockets still flying ?...so why would they grant Fatah the same rights in the west bank... Golan heights, not going to happen, Syria lost that position on the map after using it repeatedly to attack Israel towns and cities, now it is under the hands of Israel, after Syria attacked Israel...it is a war prize....they were warned many times, and refused...and the Syrians that live there prefer it over living under Syrian rule... read the link below.. Sounds like a leaving hell .

 

 

Golan Heights - Wikipedia

I didn’t bring up Hamas. 
 

Simply put there is no basis under international law for annexation of territory and certainly no basis for colonization of annexed territory with settlers. The Occupied Territories are occupied in every sense of the word and allowing Hamas to self-administer their occupation in Gaza doesn’t make them not occupied. They’re de-colonized but still occupied. They’re not a sovereign territory that’s a fact 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

No it’s not silly

Of course it's silly. It would be impossible to have happen because of the definition. That's like saying there's never been a war with no war.  You can't have an athiest holy war SO it's pretty silly to say there's never been one.   (its embarrasing for you that i'd have to explain that in detail).

2 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

 

 History has no atheist equivalent of a crusade or jihad, meaning nobody has ever started a war for the purpose of forcing a land or people to come under atheist rule.

Sure they have. Nazis were athiest and they definitely went after the jews with the intent of bringing them under their control. They banned many churches.  MANY top nazis were athiests although not all so you might get a technical win there. But it was pretty much a group of athiests for the most part who only considered religion to be of political value and hated a lot of religions such as judeism etc.

2 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

The closest anyone can claim is the USSR and the cold war communist countries as communism was a package of economic, philosophical and political beliefs of which atheism was just one and often the least enforced of them. Atheism was not the motivator of communist atrocities. 

Well it was actually - the russian hatred of theism was pretty strong.

And lets not forget the pogroms. Many of those were pretty much exclusively about religion.

2 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

The German people themselves were not atheists and the Nazis never promoted or endorsed it. They only promoted Christianity. 

They didn't promote Christianity, they started off being friendly to the pope when he went along with them and then spoke out against christians when he dissed them.

Like i said, you'll have to jig the definition of atheism to make it work.

 

[Americana Antifa]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Look this is going to go around and around, and i don't have the energy to argue with you as you refuse to do some reading... 

Because you seem to be unable to understand that human beings are individuals. If Egypt attacks Israel, it's stupid to say, well the Egyptian government is run by Muslims, so that means we need to have an apartheid country to keep the Muslims here contained.

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

- there is no blockade .... 

Seriously?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

[Americana Antifa]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Palestine has never been a country

I was referring to Mandatory Palestine. During this time, Jews and Arabs in the region got along much better than now.

It wasn't perfect, there were still religious arguments over whether the land should be ruled by Judaism or Islam. But it was better than it is now, where war crimes happen every day.

[BeaverFever]

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Of course it's silly. It would be impossible to have happen because of the definition. That's like saying there's never been a war with no war.  You can't have an athiest holy war SO it's pretty silly to say there's never been one.   (its embarrasing for you that i'd have to explain that in detail).

Sure they have. Nazis were athiest and they definitely went after the jews with the intent of bringing them under their control. They banned many churches.  MANY top nazis were athiests although not all so you might get a technical win there. But it was pretty much a group of athiests for the most part who only considered religion to be of political value and hated a lot of religions such as judeism etc.

Well it was actually - the russian hatred of theism was pretty strong.

And lets not forget the pogroms. Many of those were pretty much exclusively about religion.

They didn't promote Christianity, they started off being friendly to the pope when he went along with them and then spoke out against christians when he dissed them.

Like i said, you'll have to jig the definition of atheism to make it work.

 

Nazi Germany was not an atheist regime and Nazi party members themselves were not atheists,  they were majority Protestant and minority Catholic. The Nazis debated amongst themselves the proper role of the church in society as the idea of any cultural or moral authority outside of the Nazi party was incompatible with their philosophy but overall they still believed in god and Jesus and the stories of the bible and did not publicly challenge them or denounce Christianity. AFAIK the only Christians targeted as a group by Nazis were Jehovah’s Witnesses. Similar to how Putin now controls the Russian Orthodox Church, the Nazis sought to control rather than eliminate the Catholic and Protestant Churches but never fully landed on an approach beyond deal-making with the Vatican, arresting individual Christian religious leaders who gave them trouble and rewarding those who supported them. 

[BeaverFever]

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Of course it's silly. It would be impossible to have happen because of the definition. That's like saying there's never been a war with no war.  You can't have an athiest holy war SO it's pretty silly to say there's never been one.   (its embarrasing for you that i'd have to explain that in detail).

Not at all, you’re trying to build an argument based on absurdly literal interpretations. I cam also tell that you’re responding to my words before reading all the way through my post 

An “atheist holy war” would be where an atheist country invades a religious country and forces the people to convert to atheism and such a thing has never happened. The closest thing to this would be communist invasions, as atheism was a part of (but not the purpose of) the communist ideological package. Unconfirmed rumours that certain historical figures may have been privately or secretly atheist or agnostic are irrelevant and don’t count at all. 

[Army Guy]

17 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Because you seem to be unable to understand that human beings are individuals. If Egypt attacks Israel, it's stupid to say, well the Egyptian government is run by Muslims, so that means we need to have an apartheid country to keep the Muslims here contained.

Seriously?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip

Palestinians are free to travel within their respective areas, the west bank, and Gaza, Israel has every right to restrict travel with Israel to anyone it wishes...and until Palestinians keep on with their terrorist attacks then there is going to be consequences. That's what they call sovereignty. Something you have missed in your hardened opinion..

Did you even read your source, it's funny that during those times Israel had blockades up and running so did Egypt, for the same thing terrorism. and somehow that you failed to mention that key point, maybe on the next post you can mention it in detail...And no mention of Any blockades in 2022/23, maybe you got another source...

[Army Guy]

19 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

I didn’t bring up Hamas. 
 

Simply put there is no basis under international law for annexation of territory and certainly no basis for colonization of annexed territory with settlers. The Occupied Territories are occupied in every sense of the word and allowing Hamas to self-administer their occupation in Gaza doesn’t make them not occupied. They’re de-colonized but still occupied. They’re not a sovereign territory that’s a fact 

 

No, you really mean, is there no basis in international law for "Israel" for everyone else it is fair game because of the opinion you have developed...... Crimea is a recent example, still occupied until Ukraine takes it back....Canada did the same thing and took over Indigenous lands we still don't see them with self administer rights.  And yet we or you still want to throw rocks at Israel...the list of countries that have done the same thing is a long one, and nobody is screaming at them, or us...

They don't want to be a sovereign nation they want to fight with Israel...not sure why you can't see that... 

Quote

Israel has never abandoned Gaza. It has ceased to patrol its cities — a dangerous activity — in favor of building a wall around it and patrolling from the fence, which is far safer and cheaper. Selling this tactical reorganization as a goodwill gesture towards the Palestinians is one of the most successful political maneuvers Israel has been able to pull, diplomatically speaking.

And still, they continue to toss rockets across the border...dig tunnels to carry out terrorist raids into Israel, and somehow we point fingers at Israel because why, well because of the hatred between both sides... Israel made the first move and gave GAZA all the powers it wanted, and that is how they responded with rockets... and the free world screams free the west bank, so they have more of the same... what a deal, why are they not jumping at that...do you have that answer?

[Mako]

On 4/10/2023 at 6:23 PM, blackbird said:

What is your religion?  Are you Catholic?  You don't seem to accept the Bible.  The Bible is full of miracles that God performed for the nation of Israel in the Old Testament.  No nation on earth has had the Divine presence as they have had.  The miracles God performed for them are many.  And the promises for them are clear.  They are God's chosen people and he has a special place for them promised for the future.  

In what sense are the Israelis Jewish? Many have a tenuous genetic relationship to the ancient Hebrews. Even fewer are religious. Many are hostile to theism of any kind.

Many hate Christians. And yet some Christians are stupid enough to back Israeli brutality.

[Mako]

On 4/10/2023 at 7:16 PM, CdnFox said:

Pesonally i doubt all sources about equally. I look for confirmation. I find dozens and dozens of credible reports about the palesinians using their own people including children as human shields over many conflicts.

Now - that isn't to say the isrealies don't - but when YOU turn around and basically deny something that appears to be not only independently verified but also consistent in time and in keeping with their casualties reported then t become apparent that YOU are dishonest. And when you hide and play the 'whatabout' game you show you KNOW the article i posted was true and you're trying to dodge it. Added to your behavior here already - it's clear where the lies are

So you don't give a crap about 'justice' or 'truth' or how many people die or who is the source of the ongoing violence.

All you care about is that you hate the isrealis. 

Well - if that's who you want to be then fine, but don't expect me to care about your views or much about the palestinians based on your own behavior.  If they deserved our sympathy then the truth would have sufficed to explain why.

You have shown us you are a liar. You refuse to answer my questions.

Do you admit that the Israelis discriminate against Palestinians? A yes or no would be great.

Has the IDF been caught lying?

Can you acknowledge that the Zionists raped and massacred Palestinians during Zionist ethnic cleansing?

Have the Israelis killed far more than the Palestinians?

Did the Israelis help push the U.S. into the Iraq war?

What’s it like to be a lying apologist for mass murder?

Check out this website: https://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/sam-harris-uncovered

Quote: Consider the findings of human rights groups like Amnesty International’s investigation into the Gaza war of 2008: 

“Amnesty International on Thursday accused Israeli forces of war crimes, saying they used children as human shields and conducted wanton attacks on civilians during their offensive in the Gaza Strip. “

What about the assertion that Arabs take cover behind their own children? Amnesty finds that although Hamas rocketed Israeli towns during the war, that:

“It could not support Israeli claims that Hamas used human shields. It said it found no evidence Palestinian fighters directed civilians to shield military objectives from attacks, forced them to stay in buildings used by militants, or prevented them from leaving commandeered buildings”

The co-author of the influential Goldstone Report for the UN Human Rights Council, Desmond Travers, has said: 

“We found no evidence that Hamas used civilians as hostages. I had expected to find such evidence but did not. We also found no evidence that mosques were used to store munitions. ”

Edited April 12, 2023 by Mako

[Mako]

On 4/10/2023 at 7:32 PM, BeaverFever said:

Well I stand by what I said, all religions borrow from other previous and contemporary religions and that includes Christianity. Your link is to a religious writer on a religious website. His logic is dubious and flawed (The similarities between Christianity and its contemporaries are not completely identical, Christians would never knowingly steal ideas from pagans etc). For some obvious examples, the religious holidays that Christians call Christmas and Easter were already longstanding pagan holidays marking winter solstice and spring equinox respectively, complete with decorating evergreen trees and painting eggs  and so forth. His sources for the facts which underpin this weak arguments are also questionable. It’s possible that  the first Christians were followers of one of the many Jewish preachers who were executed for opposition or rebellion against Roman rule and who was an actual man named Yeshua (“Joshua” in modern English, but Christian Romans corrupted it to “Jesus”).  More likely though is that this “Yeshua” is a composite character representing many such people real and mythical that would have been known to them. 
 

Remember for the first 300 years after the alleged death of the Jesus character there was no official version of Christianity. There was no official bible. You could go from town to town and chapel to chapel and find radically different versions of Christianity amd the supposed Jesus story practiced in each. Remember the first Christians in that time didn’t come to Christianity as empty vessels with no pre-existing awareness of cultures or other religions and people didn’t completely abandon all of their practices when they decided to try Christianity. They incorporated the version of Christianity they encountered into their already existing lives and world.  It wasn’t until the Emperor Constantine convened the council of Nicaea in 325 AD that an official version of Christianity was established and the rest declared heresy   
 

No, not at all.
 

There has never been an atheist crusade or jihad. Nobody has ever been put to the sword in the name of atheism. Frederick  II is hardly a Hitler or a Stalin, more like a garden variety European conqueror of his time. Even in the unlikely event that he was atheist, his wars wee not in the to advance the cause of atheism, he dod not command armies of avowed atheist troops or administer his state via a corps of dedicated atheist bureaucrats.  The most one can say is that man’s inhumanity to man is not tempered by religion or by lack of religion. 

Some scholars think: “the epistles of Paul contain creedal summaries of early Christian beliefs which possibly date as early as 35-40 C.E.”

Website: https://carm.org/evidence-and-answers/an-analysis-of-the-pre-pauline-creed-in-1-corinthians-151-11/

Wow you are completely wrong, so many have been killed in the name of atheism!

Atheists sometimes feel religious folk are inferior or backward and must be liquidated in the interest of progress. Many Communists have felt this way, the genocidal Young Turks felt this way, more recent atheists like C. Hitchens and S. Harris have felt this way too.

https://www.salon.com/2021/06/05/how-the-new-atheists-merged-with-the-far-right-a-story-of-intellectual-grift-and-abject-surrender/

https://mondoweiss.net/2012/06/sam-harris-uncovered

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-59595952

https://www.history.com/news/joseph-stalin-religion-atheism-ussr

You really should admit your error.

Edited April 12, 2023 by Mako

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Mako said:

In what sense are the Israelis Jewish?

73.6% of Israelis are Jewish.

Religion in Israel - Wikipedia

You didn't say whether you are Catholic or what religious affiliation or background.

1 hour ago, Mako said:

Many hate Christians. And yet some Christians are stupid enough to back Israeli brutality.

This is likely pure bias or anti-Semitism.  Just throwing out extreme claims does not make it a fact.  

There is also no proof that there is systematic brutality.  There may be isolated cases as happens occasionally even in western countries.  If you want to see brutality in history, check into the Roman church in Europe and what they did.

Self defence is not brutality.  Israel has had to defend itself all through history.

You obviously have an anti-Semitic or anti-Israel streak which is very common in the world.  This is very common because of the herd mentality in the world.  That's why it is important to study the Bible and believe it and don't automatically take some denomination's word for the interpretation.  That's the only way I know of to avoid falling into the trap which swallowed most of Europe for a couple thousand years.

Edited April 12, 2023 by blackbird