Canada wrongly supports a "two-state" solution for Israel

[Americana Antifa]

7 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Yes really, The people voted in the government they wanted, a terrorist organization.....How much more has to be said, they agree with the tactics these terrorist are using or they would not be in power....As for their promise has it ever seen the light of day... are the people thinking maybe we made a mistake are they taking to the streets and protesting...NO

 

You're not answering the question. WHY did they vote in a terrorist organization that promised to destroy Israel?

[Army Guy]

2 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

Military, Military, Military excesses, friend. This is what one of the leaders of the Internal Secret Service Shin bet said, frustrated at the forceful solutions being deployed by the military at the order of some politicians. 

so, 

Do you, as a military veteran, remember the human cost of conflict and prioritise finding a peaceful resolution for the sake of ordinary people on both sides? Or you just go with Netanyahu because he has a strong voice?! He is a hero to Israel, yes, but he should not be in politics, is my view. 

I live with the human cost of conflict every time i close my eyes to sleep, This is what i learned, governments are not trying to find a peaceful solution to any conflict, when they are not gaining anything from the conflict then and only then they will quit... Conflict means money, opportunity...two sides of the coin mean nothing.....there lives mean squat to them, i mean we can not treat our own veterans with respect, what do you think they thought of the Taliban. 

Soldiers after a few months of combat you develop a hate of the enemy, it is a coping mechanism that allows you to end that life.... by that time you have seen enough death and destruction to harden those thoughts, and once a few of your comrades die, then that hatred becomes an obsession all you think of is killing more bad guys.. you eat, sleep, and do nothing but think of killing bad guys, and anyone not of the same mind set was a sissy, coward, a liability to the team, someone that needed to be shunned. could not be trusted... the only solution we could add was to kill enough of the enemy that they give up...Lets be clear, we were not sent over there to make peace or find peaceful solutions...we were sent over there to close with and destroy them...with everything at our disposal, and anyway we could...and Canada got really good at it...

At that point in my life, i did not care about the other side, there was only one side for me, the people of Afghanistan, if you were on the other side you were a terrorist support system, nothing more, i had no sympathy for any of the Taliban or their families or anyone that supported the Taliban , they were the block to a peaceful solution...

War is the absence of a peaceful solution, politicians that have failed to discuss and compromise with the other side, soldiers are not in politics, nor do they care about politics...., their job is to close and destroy the enemy, as fast and as many as they can to drive the other side back to the table, where peace can be talked about... 

Man is not grown up enough to work things out by talking about them, in most cases they are more than willing to throw their youth away to make their political points...Like Russia right now... I don't wish war on anyone, but sometimes you have to carry a big stick and be willing to use it...

[Army Guy]

5 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

You're not answering the question. WHY did they vote in a terrorist organization that promised to destroy Israel?

Yes i have answered it , it may not be the one your looking for but thats the answer, Becasue they hate Israel and have the same agenda...and more than willing to join the cause... see any shortage of recruits, i don't... do have any examples of them protesting terrorism or any acts of it... maybe protest wanting a change of government, Hamas has been in power for a long time now how did that happen....

[blackbird]

Odd that some people seem to think there is a negotiable solution available.  The Canadian government claims to support a two-state solution, which will never work.  This is the same Canadian government that thought China could be changed and convinced to accept liberalism when Trudeau made his hopeless trip to China back around 2015.  He was rejected as an ignorant westerner by China.  When will these liberals ever learn there are some governments and systems that will not change.  It is the same with the Palestinians.  These are Arabs who do not believe that Israel has a right to exist and they never will.  Conflicts there have been going on for many centuries.  No amount of talk is going to change their thinking. 

"The Islamization of Jerusalem refers to the process through which Jerusalem and its Old City adopted an Islamic atmosphere of influence and eventually a significant Muslim presence. The foundation for Jerusalem's Islamization was laid by the Muslim conquest of the Levant, and began shortly after the city was besieged and captured in 638 CE by the Rashidun Caliphate under Umar ibn al-Khattab, the second Rashidun caliph. The second wave of Islamization occurred after the fall of the Kingdom of Jerusalem, a Christian state that was established after the First Crusade, at the Battle of Hattin in 1187. The eventual fall of the Crusader states by 1291 led to a period of almost-uninterrupted Muslim rule that lasted for seven centuries, and a dominant Islamic culture was consolidated in the region during the Ayyubid, Mamluk and early Ottoman periods. Beginning in the late Ottoman era, Jerusalem’s demographics turned increasingly multicultural, and regained a Jewish-majority character during the late-19th and early-20th centuries that had not been seen since the Roman period, which largely ended the Jewish presence in the region.[1]"  Islamization of Jerusalem - Wikipedia

Another conflicting issue is Jerusalem has been the capital of Israel going back several thousand years and part of that is the importance of the temple mount where the Judean temple was first built about 1000 B.C., destroyed and later built.  Then destroyed by the Romans in 70 A.D.  Then the Muslims built their mosque on the site, which of course creates a whole new problem.

"

The Temple in Jerusalem, or alternatively the Holy Temple (Hebrew: בֵּית־הַמִּקְדָּשׁ‎, Modern: Bēt haMīqdaš, Tiberian: Bēṯ hamMīqdāš; Arabic: بيت المقدس, Bayt al-Maqdis), refers to the two now-destroyed religious structures that served as the central places of worship for Israelites and Jews on the modern-day Temple Mount in the Old City of Jerusalem. According to the Hebrew Bible, the First Temple was built in the 10th century BCE, during the reign of Solomon over the United Kingdom of Israel. It stood until c. 587 BCE, when it was destroyed during the Babylonian siege of Jerusalem. Almost a century later, the First Temple was replaced by the Second Temple, which was built after the Neo-Babylonian Empire was conquered by the Achaemenid Persian Empire. While the Second Temple stood for a longer period of time than the First Temple, it was likewise destroyed during the Roman siege of Jerusalem in 70 CE.

Projects to build the hypothetical "Third Temple" have not come to fruition in the modern era, though the Temple in Jerusalem still features prominently in Judaism.[1] Outside of Judaism, the Temple (and todays Temple Mount) also carries a high level of significance as the third-holiest site in Islam. Two landmark Ummayyad-era structures, the Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque lie today atop the Temple Mount, called the "Al Aqsa Mosque compound" or Haram al-Sharif."

Temple in Jerusalem - Wikipedia

Edited April 10, 2023 by blackbird

[Americana Antifa]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Yes i have answered it , it may not be the one your looking for but thats the answer, Becasue they hate Israel and have the same agenda...and more than willing to join the cause... see any shortage of recruits, i don't... do have any examples of them protesting terrorism or any acts of it... maybe protest wanting a change of government, Hamas has been in power for a long time now how did that happen....

So you think Palestinians just hate Israel for no reason? Do you think they're genetically programmed to hate Israel or something?

[Mako]

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

So the best you can do is lie about what i said? So yiou're admitting i'm right and your only defense is to lie

Well there you go. I was right.

I acknowledge the Palistinians discriminate more - they literally have said as an official position that the jews should be wiped out. Something you didnt' mention for some strange reason. Wow - it's as if you were completely brainwashed and think that the palistinians do NOTHING wrong at all.

Considering that they haven't actually cleansed anything and htey could if they wanted to - i'm gonna go with 'no'.

Doesn't matter does it.  If you try to kill me and fail, and i kill you instead before you can try again, i've done more killing but was ABSOLUTELY RIGHT to do so.

So here's my question - you've clearly lied and been dishonest in your above reply - we both know palestinias have used human shield tactics and have been the instigators much of the time, yet you claim otherwise and sealion about it and of course there's your many lies by omission as you suggest the Palestinians have done nothing in this conflict and are simply innocent victims which we also know is not true. That's common knowledge.

So given that - if you really actually felt the Palestinians were in the right here.... why did you feel the need to lie? If it's clear cut as you suggest then why not tell the truth?

Your own words prove you think they are guilty, you just prefer them to isrealies.  I condemn the bad actions of BOTH sides - you've taken a side and will lie to protect it.

Disgusting. You should be ashamed.

You wrote: “Generally violent conflict is instigated by the muslims.  And usually in a fashion where retaliation will result in civillian casualties on purpose.”

I’ve asked you to prove your statement and you have failed to do so. Please try to refrain from making bigoted dishonest statements on behalf of those dropping bombs on helpless civilians.

Do you admit that the Israelis discriminate against Palestinians? A yes or no would be great.

Check out this interview: https://www.counterpunch.org/2004/01/16/an-interview-with-benny-morris/

Can you acknowledge that the Zionists raped and massacred Palestinians during Zionist ethnic cleansing? 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Mako

[CdnFox]

19 minutes ago, Mako said:

You wrote: “Generally violent conflict is instigated by the muslims.  And usually in a fashion where retaliation will result in civillian casualties on purpose.

I’ve asked you to prove your statement and you have failed to do so. Please try to refrain from making bigoted dishonest statements on behalf of those dropping bombs on helpless civilians.

So you dishonestly lie about what i said entirely, then complain about what  other people say.

I have a funny feeling you know the truth but you're just a dishonest person. But lets find out -

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-releases-photos-showing-terror-groups-put-rocket-launchers-next-to-gaza-schools/

Now - there's TONNES of information just like that.

WOuld you care to admit you were wrong ( i suspect deliberately but whatever).  Or are you going to resort to lies and sealioning to excuse this behavior?

What we can see of you so far buddy is that you're a liar and dishonest. Lets see if you can turn that around or if you're going to prove that those who support the palisinians NEED to lie to defend their position, which would suggest the isrealis are in the right here.

 

[CdnFox]

45 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

So you think Palestinians just hate Israel for no reason?

Maybe someone told them jews are nazis.  (staaaaaaaaaaare... )

[Americana Antifa]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Maybe someone told them jews are nazis.  (staaaaaaaaaaare... )

Jews are nazis, we settled this already.

[CdnFox]

19 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Jews are nazis, we settled this already.

You settled it in your mind. The rest of us don't think that, and as near as i can tell you just decided it one day. Jews are demonstably not nazis despite your chronic insistence

So if you just came to that conclusion one day perhaps the palisitinans did too. You don't need a reason for your hatred, it's just as likely they don't need a reason for theirs.

Edited April 10, 2023 by CdnFox

[Americana Antifa]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You settled it in your mind. The rest of us don't think that, and as near as i can tell you just decided it one day. Jews are demonstably not nazis despite your chronic insistence

So if you just came to that conclusion one day perhaps the palisitinans did too. You don't need a reason for your hatred, it's just as likely they don't need a reason for theirs.

Okay, but what about non-binary people? Can we agree they're nazis?

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Okay, but what about non-binary people? Can we agree they're nazis?

I'm kind of done with you calling everyone nazis. I get you think the conservatives are nazis. I get you think the jews are nazis. But you're starting to get close to hate speech. Maybe dial it back a little.

We're mostly conservatives here and pro free speech but we are in canada and your language is a violation of the hate laws - you can't call jewish people nazis here just because you don't like them. And sooner or later someone is going to report you and you'll wind up banned for speaking hate crimes.

So you might want to dial your hatred back a bit. We all know you think jews are nazis, you've said it a million times now, and we know you thiink conservatives are as well as sub human. So there's no need to add a lot of other people to that especially marginalized groups.

[Americana Antifa]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

I'm kind of done with you calling everyone nazis.

Not everyone! Just Jews and non-binary people!!

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Americana Antifa said:

Not everyone! Just Jews and non-binary people!!

And conservatives and anyone who disagrees with you. And everyone here knows you're not joking.

SIgh - and people wonder why women are sometimes perceived at being less rational in politics.

[Americana Antifa]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And conservatives and anyone who disagrees with you. And everyone here knows you're not joking.

SIgh - and people wonder why women are sometimes perceived at being less rational in politics.

 

 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Americana Antifa

[CdnFox]

And of course the pictures come out   What a shock

 

God you're so broken.

 

 

[Mako]

9 hours ago, CdnFox said:

So you dishonestly lie about what i said entirely, then complain about what  other people say.

I have a funny feeling you know the truth but you're just a dishonest person. But lets find out -

https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-releases-photos-showing-terror-groups-put-rocket-launchers-next-to-gaza-schools/

Now - there's TONNES of information just like that.

WOuld you care to admit you were wrong ( i suspect deliberately but whatever).  Or are you going to resort to lies and sealioning to excuse this behavior?

What we can see of you so far buddy is that you're a liar and dishonest. Lets see if you can turn that around or if you're going to prove that those who support the palisinians NEED to lie to defend their position, which would suggest the isrealis are in the right here.

 

Wow the IDF blames their enemy. Hardly surprising. Do military bureaucrats sometimes lie to justify their brutality?

You know the IDF lies as much as you do.

https://www.haaretz.com/2011-01-09/ty-article/the-idf-uses-propaganda-like-an-authoritarian-regime/0000017f-eac3-dc91-a17f-fecfe0520000

https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-tv-admits-no-rockets-were-ever-fired-unrwa-schools-gaza-during-cast-lead

Another question for you to ignore: Does Israel ever attack non-military targets?

https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/15/israel/palestine-unlawful-israeli-airstrikes-kill-civilians

“Israel’s rhetoric is all about precision attacks but attacks with no military target and many civilian deaths can hardly be considered precise,” said Sarah Leah Witson, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch. 

More questions which you can’t answer:

Why do you feel the Muslims instigate the attacks against Israel? Didn’t the Zionists begin the conflict when they ethnically cleansed the Palestinians?

Do you admit that the Israelis discriminate against Palestinians? A yes or no would be great.

Can you acknowledge that the Zionists raped and massacred Palestinians during Zionist ethnic cleansing? 

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Mako

[Mako]

Israelis use human shields.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-report-accuses-israeli-forces-of-using-palestinian-children-as-human-shields-abusing-children-in-custody/

[CdnFox]

So you admit to your lie and provide no evidence that they don't use the children as human shields.

So - why would i listen to a dishonest person? If the truth is so evident why don't you just use the truth instead of lying?

Sounds like you've looked into this and you know the isrealies aren't the bad guys, but for some reason you want to protray them as such.

[blackbird]

5 hours ago, Mako said:

Israelis use human shields.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/un-report-accuses-israeli-forces-of-using-palestinian-children-as-human-shields-abusing-children-in-custody/

The U.N. is a proven anti-Semitic powerful global organization that makes more motions against Israel than any other nation.  It is full of Islamic dictatorships, and other authoritarian anti-Semitic countries.  Yet you believe them.

[Mako]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

The U.N. is a proven anti-Semitic powerful global organization that makes more motions against Israel than any other nation.  It is full of Islamic dictatorships, and other authoritarian anti-Semitic countries.  Yet you believe them.

Elements of the corporate media are a proven source of pro-Zionist pro-apartheid propaganda. Yet you believe them.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Mako

[blackbird]

24 minutes ago, Mako said:

pro-Zionist

Do you even know what Zionism is?   Zionism or pro-Zionism is simply support for the State of Israel.  Israel has a perfect right to exist and to defend themselves against jihad.  So of course I would support pro Zionism which means pro Israel.  Unless you are anti-Semitic or a Nazi you should be pro-Zionism.  If you are a Bible believer, you must bless Israel and Zionism.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Mako said:

Elements of the corporate media are a proven source of pro-Zionist pro-apartheid propaganda. Yet you believe them.

What is your religion?  Are you Catholic?  You don't seem to accept the Bible.  The Bible is full of miracles that God performed for the nation of Israel in the Old Testament.  No nation on earth has had the Divine presence as they have had.  The miracles God performed for them are many.  And the promises for them are clear.  They are God's chosen people and he has a special place for them promised for the future.  

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Mako said:

Elements of the corporate media are a proven source of pro-Zionist pro-apartheid propaganda. Yet you believe them.

Pesonally i doubt all sources about equally. I look for confirmation. I find dozens and dozens of credible reports about the palesinians using their own people including children as human shields over many conflicts.

Now - that isn't to say the isrealies don't - but when YOU turn around and basically deny something that appears to be not only independently verified but also consistent in time and in keeping with their casualties reported then t become apparent that YOU are dishonest. And when you hide and play the 'whatabout' game you show you KNOW the article i posted was true and you're trying to dodge it. Added to your behavior here already - it's clear where the lies are

So you don't give a crap about 'justice' or 'truth' or how many people die or who is the source of the ongoing violence.

All you care about is that you hate the isrealis. 

Well - if that's who you want to be then fine, but don't expect me to care about your views or much about the palestinians based on your own behavior.  If they deserved our sympathy then the truth would have sufficed to explain why.

[BeaverFever]

On 4/9/2023 at 4:02 AM, Mako said:

The Jesus as myth view is popular among whiny uneducated internet atheist activist adolescent boys.

https://evidenceandanswers.org/article/pagan-connection-did-christianity-borrow-from-mystery-religions/

Well I stand by what I said, all religions borrow from other previous and contemporary religions and that includes Christianity. Your link is to a religious writer on a religious website. His logic is dubious and flawed (The similarities between Christianity and its contemporaries are not completely identical, Christians would never knowingly steal ideas from pagans etc). For some obvious examples, the religious holidays that Christians call Christmas and Easter were already longstanding pagan holidays marking winter solstice and spring equinox respectively, complete with decorating evergreen trees and painting eggs  and so forth. His sources for the facts which underpin this weak arguments are also questionable. It’s possible that  the first Christians were followers of one of the many Jewish preachers who were executed for opposition or rebellion against Roman rule and who was an actual man named Yeshua (“Joshua” in modern English, but Christian Romans corrupted it to “Jesus”).  More likely though is that this “Yeshua” is a composite character representing many such people real and mythical that would have been known to them. 
 

Remember for the first 300 years after the alleged death of the Jesus character there was no official version of Christianity. There was no official bible. You could go from town to town and chapel to chapel and find radically different versions of Christianity amd the supposed Jesus story practiced in each. Remember the first Christians in that time didn’t come to Christianity as empty vessels with no pre-existing awareness of cultures or other religions and people didn’t completely abandon all of their practices when they decided to try Christianity. They incorporated the version of Christianity they encountered into their already existing lives and world.  It wasn’t until the Emperor Constantine convened the council of Nicaea in 325 AD that an official version of Christianity was established and the rest declared heresy   
 

On 4/9/2023 at 4:02 AM, Mako said:

I think you are right atheism is not a popular faith or philosophy. This makes the massive death toll of atheism all the more remarkable.

No, not at all.
 

There has never been an atheist crusade or jihad. Nobody has ever been put to the sword in the name of atheism. Frederick  II is hardly a Hitler or a Stalin, more like a garden variety European conqueror of his time. Even in the unlikely event that he was atheist, his wars wee not in the to advance the cause of atheism, he dod not command armies of avowed atheist troops or administer his state via a corps of dedicated atheist bureaucrats.  The most one can say is that man’s inhumanity to man is not tempered by religion or by lack of religion.