Should One Being Trans be Disclosed While Dating?

[Michael Hardner]

43 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Some kids in grade 6 are below that age.

Grade 7 is about the earliest you should be getting into it with kids as a group. If parents feel their individual kid is ready for the talk earlier then great, have at it.

Not if they schedule it in the 2nd 1/2 of the year.  

But anyway, after a little dialogue and a few questions here we are determining whether something should be taught in grade six or grade seven rather than calling each other names...

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Not if they schedule it in the 2nd 1/2 of the year.  
 

That might depend on teh province i guess - but i think you'd still have some under that age.

I'd say 12 is the absolutely minimum - go a grade higher and at least it's more relevant.

And as i said - if a parent thinks their kid is more advanced they can have that talk sooner. THere's resources to help them, great books etc.

5 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

But anyway, after a little dialogue and a few questions here we are determining whether something should be taught in grade six or grade seven rather than calling each other names...

Sure - most things can be reasoned with honest dialogue where both parties are genuinely interested in exploring the issue.  Online dialogue tends to lend itself more to 'debate tricks' and dishonest discussion but not always.

At the end of the day - nobody sane thinks that people aren't going to need to know about this stuff at SOME point.  Adults need to be aware of sexuality and sex and some of the issues around it, while children do not.  So we're debating the transition point and how much and how fast the info should be fed to them.

I think 12-13 is fine to start talking about puberty and the basics of sex and masturbation and wet dreams and all that stuff and the dangers of pregnancy and disease - and on a general level rather than technical details or technique    I think as they get older more specific discussions about sex and reproduction and later in their school careers some frank discussions about gender and the like.  You might tweak that a little different.

[Nexii]

Wouldn't dream of keeping this a secret. Mostly for my own safety

I think most guys who would date trans, are at least casually bisexual to begin with. So it's not really an issue

Though there is the converse problem at times, guys who are into trans but not in the relationship sense

[CdnFox]

45 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Wouldn't dream of keeping this a secret. Mostly for my own safety

I think most guys who would date trans, are at least casually bisexual to begin with. So it's not really an issue

Though there is the converse problem at times, guys who are into trans but not in the relationship sense

Regular dating is challenging enough - gotta figure it's not making it any easier to throw that whole issue in the mix.

I remember the famous youtube trans influencer Blair White talking about having sex with people like her and saying "It's not the straightest thing you could do, but it's not the gayest thing either".

[Perspektiv]

On 9/26/2023 at 2:04 PM, Nexii said:

Wouldn't dream of keeping this a secret. Mostly for my own safety

I think it should be mostly for the honesty you would want your relationship to be built upon.

I kind of see it like me ommitting to tell my wife am divorced when we started dating. Sure that omission won't hurt her any, but why start our foundation building with a lie?

I tried dating people in my social circle, online dating, going to bars etc when single.

During online dating, I would present pictures of my actual, my body, face so you know what you see, is what you get.

As a result, if she was attracted upon approach, she was still in person as I was as advertised.

I went on a date with women advertising them being skinny and posting face shots.

Only to meet and they were plus sized. Just had no double chin hence the ability to fool people.

So now if I break things off, am shallow somehow. Her lie didn't hurt me, but why lie? I would be upset at the lie. Its a deal breaker to me.

Yet, if we flip tables and I advertise am a general manager and have a nice car and house and am begging you for change to pay for the meal once we are done eating (which you lose appetite for, due to the strong stench from my unshowered body) how is the woman's disappointment any different?

Violence is unnacceptable, mind you. But I would not blame someone's disappointment on the lie. 

[Nexii]

On 10/12/2023 at 4:01 PM, Perspektiv said:

I think it should be mostly for the honesty you would want your relationship to be built upon.

I kind of see it like me ommitting to tell my wife am divorced when we started dating. Sure that omission won't hurt her any, but why start our foundation building with a lie?

I tried dating people in my social circle, online dating, going to bars etc when single.

During online dating, I would present pictures of my actual, my body, face so you know what you see, is what you get.

As a result, if she was attracted upon approach, she was still in person as I was as advertised.

I went on a date with women advertising them being skinny and posting face shots.

Only to meet and they were plus sized. Just had no double chin hence the ability to fool people.

So now if I break things off, am shallow somehow. Her lie didn't hurt me, but why lie? I would be upset at the lie. Its a deal breaker to me.

Yet, if we flip tables and I advertise am a general manager and have a nice car and house and am begging you for change to pay for the meal once we are done eating (which you lose appetite for, due to the strong stench from my unshowered body) how is the woman's disappointment any different?

Violence is unnacceptable, mind you. But I would not blame someone's disappointment on the lie. 

No, safety is always #1. It's not the same for women as for men

[CdnFox]

14 minutes ago, Nexii said:

No, safety is always #1. It's not the same for women as for men

If you like a person enough to go on a date and they like you enough to agree, then you should feel comfortable with being at least that honest with them.

If not - then be clear it's not a date and for now it's just two people going out for a bite or to watch a movie or whatever.

Sorry - but if you start a relationship on a lie then expect a bad end.

[Nexii]

Don't think you understood what I was getting at - it's not to be dishonest for safety's sake. Quite the converse.

At the same time, there's a big difference between lying and not telling someone you've just met every detail about where you live, work, your dating past, etc. Being trans I would divulge upfront for another reason - I don't want to waste my time either. But many other things I would not. 

Men don't have to think much at all about that safety factor, is all I'm saying. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Nexii said:

Don't think you understood what I was getting at -

Well as you know I'm a super-mega-genius-demi-deity so i think it's more likely that you didn't understand what you meant. 

Quote

it's not to be dishonest for safety's sake. Quite the converse.

Ahhhh - do you're saying you WOULD tell them to avoid an angry reaction later.  I did misunderstand that, my bad.

Quote

At the same time, there's a big difference between lying and not telling someone you've just met every detail about where you live, work, your dating past, etc. Being trans I would divulge upfront for another reason - I don't want to waste my time either. But many other things I would not. 

If people have a reasonable expectation that they know a RELEVANT truth about you and you don't correct them, that's a problem.  If they believe you to have been born with a female body allowing them to believe that when you're entering into a 'dating' situation (rather than just 'lets hang") would be dishonest.

On the flip side, things like what your favorite fruit is or the anguish you went through struggling with your identity watching others around you fit in without effort can wait till a later time and it is not reasonable to believe they will have an urgent need to buy you fruit all of a sudden.   (it's blueberries isn't it? You just seem like a blueberries kinda gal)

Nobody anywhere expects anyone to share all their secrets but if something is relevant AND there's a strong chance of misunderstanding.... 

 

Men don't have to think much at all about that safety factor, is all I'm saying. 

[OftenWrong]

Probably a good idea "while dating", lest you might see someone's eyes bug out when the time comes to remove one's clothing. 

 

[Perspektiv]

11 hours ago, Nexii said:

At the same time, there's a big difference between lying and not telling someone you've just met every detail about where you live, work, your dating past, etc.

Not telling someone one is trans, is lying by omission, in my opinion.

If I approach a woman, there is an inherent assumption she will have a vagina, and two breasts.

These aren't question one should have to ask on a date.

Just like me not dating another woman, while dating a woman. Its an inherent assumption that am single.

Of course, all details aren't necessary, but lying by omission about something serious that would end things for most people, isn't any different than an outright lie.

I never understood those who didn't understand the simple concept of you get what you put out in this world.

I as a result, was always a transparent and open book while dating, and was genuine.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I as a result, was always a transparent and open book while dating, and was genuine.

Agreed!  well... i may have said that dress didn't make her look fat once or twice but GENERALLY SPEAKING VERY HONEST!!  It's the best policy

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Agreed!  well... i may have said that dress didn't make her look fat once or twice but GENERALLY SPEAKING VERY HONEST!!  It's the best policy

My wife is Asian, and from my experience, Asian women tend to be more blunt (of course, depending on what country they are from). Mind you, have only dated Filipina, Thai, Cambodian, Chinese and Balinese women, when it comes down to that demographic.

I could literally tell the wife we need to lose weight together, and she wouldn't take offense to it.

She never would ask me if she is getting fat, and would just tell me:

"OMG....I can't fit in my miniskirts anymore!"

Yeah, you're getting old.

"No, am getting fat. We should join a gym"

Mind you, her getting fat, is her being able to pinch some fat in her stomach area.

My idea of getting fat, is me not seeing my d*** when I pee. Thats when I know I let myself go.

We have vastly different standards. O_o

 

 

[Perspektiv]

18 hours ago, Nexii said:

No, safety is always #1. It's not the same for women as for men

Sure, my wife didn't want to risk getting raped by me on our first date, but I sort of dated her in crowded places, initially. Makes it incredibly hard, plus gives her an easy out if she isn't feeling me.

I don't think its a concern for women who have street smarts.

Maturity levels will decide a lot of things, and I find that most women I have dated truly value a man who can stand on their own feet, if they are looking to settle down.

So many women I have dated saw me as a breath of fresh air, because I had my own house, car and my s*** together.

I pay for the dates, and assume am footing the bill as I seek feminine women who would appreciate a man who wants to be a gentleman. 

Common gripe I heard, was women fed up with being a man's mommy. 

But it varies. If she has a low self esteem, or is less mature, the needs vary.

Less maturity I got, the more they were worried about me being a player, sleeping with them, and ditching them, or worried about anything but the future.

I knew my wife was marriage material, as she had a boss b**** aura. She also knew what she wanted, and pulled no punches. Dating leads to marriage, and my body isn't a toy or accessory..and get lost if you feel you can reduce me to a dollar amount, or piece of meat.

[Zeitgeist]

One word: pregnancy.  Trans identity has enormous implications for procreation.  To hide trans identity in a date is unethical.  

[TreeBeard]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

One word: pregnancy.  Trans identity has enormous implications for procreation.  To hide trans identity in a date is unethical.  

What does pregnancy have to do with it?

[Zeitgeist]

9 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

What does pregnancy have to do with it?

Gee, I don’t know, maybe something to do with sex.  It’s something humans sometimes have.  Heard of it?

[Michael Hardner]

37 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

What does pregnancy have to do with it?

So if you are a Trans woman, you have to clearly explain that unprotected sex may not lead to pregnancy ???

If you are pre-op then it's even more important...

[Zeitgeist]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

So if you are a Trans woman, you have to clearly explain that unprotected sex may not lead to pregnancy ???

If you are pre-op then it's even more important...

One of the main reasons people mate is to have kids and perpetuate the human race and pass on their genetics.  It might be important to people to know whether that’s in their futures, as kids play important roles in marriage, divorce, and life.  Most people would also want to know if their partner had genitalia replaced and what their biological gender is, or is the right to trans gender role play more important?   

Edited November 21, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

... is the right to trans gender role play more important?   

It seems weird that these would be separate questions. I mean, can't you just tell someone, on a first date, I can't have children? Should be early enough in the relationship... Or even beforehand might be a good idea...

[CdnFox]

35 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

So if you are a Trans woman, you have to clearly explain that unprotected sex may not lead to pregnancy ???

 

If you're a trans woman and ANY sex leads to pregnancy  - call the papers.

[Zeitgeist]

15 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

It seems weird that these would be separate questions. I mean, can't you just tell someone, on a first date, I can't have children? Should be early enough in the relationship... Or even beforehand might be a good idea...

Hiding trans identity from a date is unethical.  

[Perspektiv]

20 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Hiding trans identity from a date is unethical.  

I've seen a few entitled trans women stating its "2023", in terms of feeling they shouldn't have to tell you. To me, this is insane.

You're not a biological woman. Its not the same. I shouldn't have to explain to a woman how this is different.

I shouldn't have to ask a woman if she is pre or post op. Me being turned off if she says "pre", shouldn't be a grievous act of discrimination.

It should be fair to assume, if I'm dating you and I feel that you're a biological woman, that if we get naked--that I see a pair of breasts, and a biological vagina. It should be a fair assumption. Just like if a woman were to get to that point with me and reach down. She automatically, assumes and expects to find a penis. She reaches down and feels a vagina, there is nothing wrong with her thinking "WTF?!!"

You buy a BMW, and drive off, and find out you were sold a Ford when you check the VIN, you'd be livid. You paid 156 000$ for a Ford sedan. Let that sink.

This is no different.

If I found out my wife had a penis 6 dates in, I don't think I could continue the relationship. She betrayed my trust, which is a cardinal sin to me.

[Zeitgeist]

6 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I've seen a few entitled trans women stating its "2023", in terms of feeling they shouldn't have to tell you. To me, this is insane.

You're not a biological woman. Its not the same. I shouldn't have to explain to a woman how this is different.

I shouldn't have to ask a woman if she is pre or post op. Me being turned off if she says "pre", shouldn't be a grievous act of discrimination.

It should be fair to assume, if I'm dating you and I feel that you're a biological woman, that if we get naked--that I see a pair of breasts, and a biological vagina. It should be a fair assumption. Just like if a woman were to get to that point with me and reach down. She automatically, assumes and expects to find a penis. She reaches down and feels a vagina, there is nothing wrong with her thinking "WTF?!!"

You buy a BMW, and drive off, and find out you were sold a Ford when you check the VIN, you'd be livid. You paid 156 000$ for a Ford sedan. Let that sink.

This is no different.

If I found out my wife had a penis 6 dates in, I don't think I could continue the relationship. She betrayed my trust, which is a cardinal sin to me.

The bottom line is that trans women are not women and trans men are not men, at least not factually or scientifically, which is what counts.  That’s why in order to respect trans rights as well as women’s rights and men’s rights we’re going to need to add new categories, including trans women and trans men.  That how doctors will know what they are dealing with biologically and how coaches know who is trying out to be on the team, etc. That’s the deal.  Many activists and soft-headed Gen Z’s won’t like this because it goes against the gender ideology they’ve been fed by school social workers and Tic Toc.  Sad face emoji. It will, however, help them cope with something called reality. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

On 11/22/2023 at 7:57 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Hiding trans identity from a date is unethical.  

I generally agree but also... it depends on some factors.  What is a "date" ?  If I have coffee with a friend is that a 'date' ?  If things turn towards having a relationship - even one that's not focussed on sexual activity - it's probably better to let someone know.