Community Input On Education Policy Banned

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The people lead the way.. marketplace of ideas and all that.  That IS where democracy lives... and it's a balance for sure.

Glad we've come full circle.

Note thread title, "Community input on education policy banned".

[myata]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Note thread title, "Community input on education policy banned".

Really. The goodness people already know all there's to know about the subject...ever. Community would only be an unnecessary complication and delay in the great scheme... a nuisance really but we don't say that here. Relax and go back to sleep.. you great government knows and cares. Before there was a G-word for that but it was so outdated. Don't forget your taxes though, just in case.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Glad we've come full circle.

Note thread title, "Community input on education policy banned".

Yes, noted. I looked at the report and not sure what it means by 'community input.  She was a trustee I think...

But, yes, there is a point at which they don't accept things from the community.  How could there not be ?

[suds]

On 2/15/2023 at 12:59 PM, Michael Hardner said:

The article doesn't explain all the allegations, which are in this report:

https://calendar.ddsb.ca/meetings/Detail/2023-02-06-1945-Special-Board-Meeting/9c68e08c-aeea-4a86-b655-af9e00f4e0ed

She also complained that the school shouldn't talk about White Supremacy....

First, get rid of this piece of nonsense (section 1.4 of Code of Conduct) ....1.4 Trustees will support the Vision and Values, and Strategic Priorities of the Durham District School Board.

It should not be a crime for an elected school board trustee to have a differing opinion on what is racism and what is speech. It should not be a crime to suggest that those kids (who believe they're trans) get counseling before doing something to their bodies they can't undo. And it should not be a crime to suggest that parents should be notified. It says trustees have a dual responsibility... 1) as an 'elected' representative of their ward, and (2) as a member of the board.  In practice however, falling into lockstep with the board comes first. If someone asks how is it possible for them to drum dissenting voices off the board.... as miata says... because they can. And finally, if elected municipal councilors are allowed to speak freely why can't elected school board trustees? The reasons given as to why they shouldn't are so lame it's almost laughable.

Edited February 16, 2023 by suds

[blackbird]

On 2/15/2023 at 9:42 AM, Zeitgeist said:

It’s becoming very clear that mere opinion-based school board policy such as “gender affirmation” of students by educators without informing parents is being mandated without parent input.  Even school trustees representing a large number of parent opinions are being banned from meetings merely for questioning such policy.  This is not an open or fair process.  What’s more, these board policies, which are highly experimental, may be causing lasting damage to children, constituting child abuse.  It’s time for parents across Canada to band together, push back, and take legal action if necessary.  The silencing of parent voices that represent a significant percentage of the population sets a very dangerous anti-free speech precedent.  Parents are feeling powerless and school boards seem to face no obligation to table different opinions and defend their policies.  One end of the political spectrum is dictating policies.

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/ontario-school-trustee-trans-policy/wcm/46c5cc0e-6e49-49d2-9cc4-43760f19e642/amp/

Linda Stone should take the Durham region school board to court for denial of her Charter Rights.

[blackbird]

On 2/15/2023 at 10:29 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Yeah, I post a link and some info and you go after me .... not surprising though ...

I posted a video link and some info and you go after me.

Edited February 16, 2023 by blackbird

[suds]

9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Linda Stone should take the Durham region school board to court for denial of her Charter Rights.

I'm not sure how that would work. Trustees are forced to sign on the dotted line saying they've read the Code of Conduct. Of course, a lot would depend on interpretation.

Edited February 17, 2023 by suds

[blackbird]

30 minutes ago, suds said:

if elected municipal councilors are allowed to speak freely why can't elected school board trustees?

She should get a crowd funding campaign going and take the school board to court for denial of her Charter rights to freedom of expression.  I'm sure she would get a lot of support.

Edited February 17, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

13 minutes ago, suds said:

I'm not sure how that would work. Trustees are forced to sign on the dotted line saying they've read the Code of Conduct. Of course, a lot would depend on interpretation.

Would be interesting to see if her Charter rights to freedom of expression means anything in this situation.

[suds]

What I found interesting is that after Linda Stone was first censured by the board, she resigns. Next election, she runs and gets voted back in again. Then censured again for the same original 'crimes'. The voting public doesn't seem to count for much.

Edited February 17, 2023 by suds

[blackbird]

Just another example of how leftism (including liberal progressivism) is destroying western civilization.

" 21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23  And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24  Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. {more: or, rather} 26  For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."  Romans 1:21-27 KJV

Edited February 17, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

We certainly seem to be living in the last days prophesied in the Bible.  Society is self-destructing.

"1  This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2  For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,"   2 Timothy 3:1 KJV

[suds]

If there's a possible lesson to be learned, we (self included) should start paying closer attention to those running for school board trustees. Too many of us just check off a box for mayor and city councilor and other than that really have no idea.

[Michael Hardner]

58 minutes ago, suds said:

First, get rid of this piece of nonsense (section 1.4 of Code of Conduct) ....1.4 Trustees will support the Vision and Values, and Strategic Priorities of the Durham District School Board.

It should not be a crime for an elected school board trustee to have a differing opinion on what is racism and what is speech. It should not be a crime to suggest that those kids (who believe they're trans) get counseling before doing something to their bodies they can't undo. And it should not be a crime to suggest that parents should be notified. It says trustees have a dual responsibility... 1) as an 'elected' representative of their ward, and (2) as a member of the board.  In practice however, falling into lockstep with the board comes first. If someone asks how is it possible for them to drum dissenting voices off the board.... as miata says... because they can. And finally, if elected municipal councilors are allowed to speak freely why can't elected school board trustees? The reasons given as to why they shouldn't are so lame it's almost laughable.

Good points.

[Zeitgeist]

12 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I already explained that democracy is only part of the balance.  You assume that they're following their personal likes versus following what the community needs but it's immaterial.

2. It's not about me, but I'm sure it makes you feel better to see it that way.

You became a leftist totalitarian in your sleep.  

[myata]

10 hours ago, suds said:

The voting public doesn't seem to count for much.

And that is no surprise or aberration. In the political system this country has evolved to, willingly and naturally, public is needed only for a democratic stamp of approval on the high government office. Then, the next morning, very politely, thanks for your hard work and now, will you get lost please? Yes and the taxes are due, by the way.

Some three centuries back people, free citizens understood what it meant. That was in another place though.

[Michael Hardner]

10 hours ago, suds said:

What I found interesting is that after Linda Stone was first censured by the board, she resigns. Next election, she runs and gets voted back in again. Then censured again for the same original 'crimes'. The voting public doesn't seem to count for much.

The most compelling bit you posted is about a trustee elected because the community opposes some of the content being taught.

The questions I still have:

1) do trustees have any say on curriculum, or is that at Ministry level?  

2) is the trustee then just grandstanding?

3) worse, are they trolling?

But again, I think that you have raised some good questions.

[Zeitgeist]

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The most compelling bit you posted is about a trustee elected because the community opposes some of the content being taught.

The questions I still have:

1) do trustees have any say on curriculum, or is that at Ministry level?  

2) is the trustee then just grandstanding?

3) worse, are they trolling?

But again, I think that you have raised some good questions.

No they don’t set curriculum but can sit on advisory committees. Their role is parent advocacy.  Basically the board screamed “human rights” and slammed the door without explaining how the matter of a student’s gender discernment was of no concern to the students’ parents. There has been no thorough public discussion of the notion of gender affirmation, let alone of whether parents have a right to know what their children are considering that will have major life-changing consequences.  I see much of this as the unintended consequence of making transgender rights human rights without making it clear what constitutes a transgender person and without referring to biological facts.  Dysphoria is still listed as a mental illness in the DSM, yet now we can’t even talk about normative facts.  The revolutionaries don’t understand bell curves or normative ranges.  They think describing phenomena as abnormal is immoral, without understanding that normative basically means most people.

In our effort to make everyone feel accepted, we’re ignoring biology and affirming feelings that may be fleeting in children.  Really education needs to stay out of this business and leave it to families to inform schools, after medical follow-up, if any such gender changes will be registered.  Only in cases of documented abuse should there be any question about whether to inform parents. The default should be informing parents. The education system is clearly under the tight control of a small group of highly-biased appointees.  

Edited February 17, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[suds]

12 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The most compelling bit you posted is about a trustee elected because the community opposes some of the content being taught.

The questions I still have:

1) do trustees have any say on curriculum, or is that at Ministry level?  

2) is the trustee then just grandstanding?

3) worse, are they trolling?

But again, I think that you have raised some good questions.

School board trustees are said to be the 'overseers of curriculum and program delivery'. They have nothing to do with the actual curriculum for obvious reasons. However, each individual school board makes up their own 'code of conduct'. The problems began when not long ago this particular board also created their own 'human rights policy' along with how they planned on implementing it. So you can either use your imagination on what this 'implementation' looks like, or... refer back to that lengthy investigation report that you provided a link to. Not only was Lynda Stone blind sided by a combination of the code of conduct and newly created human rights policy, but another trustee by the name of Paul Crawford was as well. Both at the same time. And that's how you rid yourself of speech you don't agree with. Because you can.

[myata]

Isn't this an epitome of great Canada democracy (quasi) in one short example?

What is a "school board"? A bunch of bureaucrats hired by the government and responsible, and loyal to it 100% as their employer.

Now the happy bunch (again: of government bureaucrats 100% owned by the government and with zero democratic legitimacy) creates a code of conduct and a policy. Wait: what democratic mandate do they have to create codes and policies for the schools, without any transparency, public discussion, approval by legitimate representatives? Go figure.

And then, you elected representative is sanctioned under the policy and the code. What? You see now who is running the show? And who is in it a minor, insignificant figurehead? You don't really need to figure that out: just see. Right here.

Edited February 18, 2023 by myata

[Zeitgeist]

This interview is well worth watching to understand the battle between equal treatment under the law based on merit versus race/gender/identity-based categorizations of people into victims and oppressors.

 

[Michael Hardner]

On 2/17/2023 at 7:34 PM, suds said:

 The problems began when not long ago this particular board also created their own 'human rights policy' along with how they planned on implementing it.  

Ok, I'm not going to disagree with your assertion but do you agree that "something" is needed to keep peace in school policy discussions ?  Do you think that sniping and calling out would be better than the status quo ?

How would you do it ?

[Zeitgeist]

Fast forward to the second on drag queen children’s reading hour to see another example of totalitarianism and sexualization of children in Canada: