Stagnating politico-social system

[myata]

We've been talking about events and possibilities but what if it's already here? A deep and persistent crisis of stagnation in the political and social system. Symptoms:

- No serious problem solved for decades. New ones appearing in small groups if not droves (yet).

- No significant innovations or major country-level social developments. No consistent and free for the citizens online tax filing system (approaching second quarter of 21st century)

- Political system hopelessly entrenched and incredibly boring. Total lack of new ideas. A fatal impossibility of any meaningful change ("Senate reform", "GG overspending", just pick one randomly out of a deep bucket). You can predict the next decade message of either default management corporation in the Default Duo without opening your eyes or sending extra neural pulses through your brain:

R: "let's sprinkle on them some more cookie crumbs (from their own pocket) and get elected again!"

B: "let's find ourselves a great leader (finally) and get elected (finally!)"

OMG, who said boring, just thinking about it could send one to a dentist. And that cannot be good, can it? What if it's already here?

[ExFlyer]

Are you wanting governing to be exciting?

How more exciting can it be in todays cancel culture? Erasing history. Demonizing fathers, mothers sons and daughters of confederation and history? Tearing down symbols and structures and writings of historians and historical figures?

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Are you wanting governing to be exciting?

How more exciting can it be in todays cancel culture? Erasing history. Demonizing fathers, mothers sons and daughters of confederation and history? Tearing down symbols and structures and writings of historians and historical figures?

I laugh but of course a lot more is happening than that:
- Global solutioning
- Retooling the economy
- Addressing new threats

these are high-level areas that we work on today that we weren't working on 40-50 years ago...

[ExFlyer]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

I laugh but of course a lot more is happening than that:
- Global solutioning
- Retooling the economy
- Addressing new threats

these are high-level areas that we work on today that we weren't working on 40-50 years ago...

And more.

Point is a myopic topic from a person with a very narrow scope of understanding and reality.

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

And more.

Point is a myopic topic from a person with a very narrow scope of understanding and reality.

Governing is complicated and the people who do it are often much smarter and more informed than us.

Humbling I know.

But they also make mistakes and need to be held accountable.  Ultimately they are supposed to work for us.

 

 

 

 

 

[Nationalist]

24 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I laugh but of course a lot more is happening than that:
- Global solutioning
- Retooling the economy
- Addressing new threats

these are high-level areas that we work on today that we weren't working on 40-50 years ago...

Global solutioning- bleeding the west of wealth.

Retooling the economy- bleeding the west of wealth.

Addressing new threats - bleeding the west of wealth.

[Michael Hardner]

I think somebody DM'd me asking for evidence that the US is seeing their wealth depleted.

GDP graphs don't care about your (angry) feelings...

GDP 1990-2021

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188105/annual-gdp-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

[Moonbox]

25 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think somebody DM'd me asking for evidence that the US is seeing their wealth depleted.

GDP graphs don't care about your (angry) feelings...

GDP 1990-2021

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188105/annual-gdp-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

Where's @sharkman for this?  This chart is government friendly propaganda!  How can you even believe something like this when PARTY CITY JUST DECLARED BANKRUPTCY!

Edited January 19, 2023 by Moonbox

[myata]

55 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

we weren't working on 40-50 years ago...

And it means that you will have new things to work on for how-long-ever? Sounds just right. The entitlements and pensions inclusive.

[myata]

30 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Global solutioning- bleeding the west of wealth.

Retooling the economy- bleeding the west of wealth.

Addressing new threats - bleeding the west of wealth.

Let's see some successes too.. in a couple of centuries, guessing.

[myata]

17 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

between Trudeau + Harper type of system vs the anarchists above, I think I will go with Trudeau and Harper.

Can't speak for the latter, but your comment fits right into the topic. So, you choose the status quo, an impossibility of meaningful change and by the logic of evolution, inevitable stagnation. That has been your choice, remember. I had no input or influence over it.

[ExFlyer]

2 minutes ago, myata said:

And it means that you will have new things to work on for how-long-ever? Sounds just right. The entitlements and pensions inclusive.

Times change. Events Change. New things to work on forever. Progress does not stop.

Entitlements and pensions are what are bargained for by the workers.

The ones constantly complaining are the ones that do not want to work. They just keep complaining about what others have.

Hmmm, sound like anyone you know? LOL

 

[myata]

2 hours ago, myata said:

- No serious problem solved for decades. New ones appearing in small groups if not droves (yet).

Have your glasses around? Yes you can work on them forever (so you like to believe), but rather, to the evolutionary hard stop (the reality of this Universe).

Edited January 19, 2023 by myata

[myata]

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

But you see, change is happening in the status quo. 

You mentally substituted words: "meaningful" or "necessary" for "any". But that one just may not be enough. Just ask the dinosaurs.

[myata]

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

I am all ears.

Funny, how did it escape. OK no secrets between us: get rid of FPTP and ASAP! That is possible. It is meaningful too. The system is in a hopeless state of stagnation. Great talking cannot cover the stink. It need fresh air and new ideas. And it cannot produce either anymore.

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, myata said:

Funny, how did it escape. OK no secrets between us: get rid of FPTP and ASAP! That is possible. It is meaningful too. The system is in a hopeless state of stagnation. Great talking cannot cover the stink. It need fresh air and new ideas. And it cannot produce either anymore.

What makes you think you are entitled to know everything (or anything for that matter) that goes on??

Pretty arrogant, self righteous and narcissistic of you to believe you have the right to know anything.

[I am Groot]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think somebody DM'd me asking for evidence that the US is seeing their wealth depleted.

GDP graphs don't care about your (angry) feelings...

GDP 1990-2021

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/188105/annual-gdp-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

Far be it for me to criticize a simplistic answer, especially when I know you meant it to be a throwaway thing, but this really doesn't indicate anything. GDP per person is a vastly better measure of wealth. And even then only when you account for the fact the vast majority of wealth is going to a tiny group of people. 

It's quite easily possible for overall GDP to be going up while individual wealth and disposable incomes go down. Our incomes are higher than they were forty years ago, but how long we have to work to pay for basics like a house or a car or an education have shot way past our increased salaries.

 

[I am Groot]

6 hours ago, Contrarian said:

 

---> What are specific changes you would make to ensure the system is FAIR for ALL PEOPLE? 

I am all ears.

Honest, capable and open government that represents both the will and the interests of the electorate?

Edited January 19, 2023 by I am Groot

[I am Groot]

Just now, Contrarian said:

That's what every politician says. Theory is good, not realistic is my view.

What is unrealistic about it? I'd say we pretty much had two out of three with Harper. We have 0 for 3 at the moment, of course.

[I am Groot]

Just now, Contrarian said:

Humans are flawed? How do you ensure Honest, capable and open government without dictatorship? 

You are looking for a perfection that is not there is my view. We have a good a system, some of us just chose to see the negative.

The system requires retooling. It centralizes too much power in the hands of unelected officials, is unresponsive to will of the people, and is populated by venal, self-serving individuals who can get away with what they do because of a shroud of secrecy over all their actions.

The first thing that needs to be done is to open up the government's books and records. Almost nothing the government does needs to be hidden from the eyes of the electorate. The Trudeau government won't tell anyone anything if they can get away with it. Trudeau himself won't even pretend to answer questions. He just says something sometimes only peripherally related to the question and smirks.

A lot more independence for MPs would help. How about this. We remove political parties entirely. Let every MP vote for what they want to. They can elect a cabinet among themselves and then the cabinet can elect a PM - confirmed by the House.

[I am Groot]

19 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

You can't be serious, if that happens the CCP and the FSB will host popcorn parties every time a new release is given. = )

Oh, you sweet summer child. LOL

Do you honestly think the CCP and FSB don't have complete access to every computer system the federal government has? Do you have any idea what a mixture of incompetence, chaos and obsolescence the federal government's computer system is? The government's secrecy only keeps US from knowing what they're doing and what they're spending our money on. It certainly doesn't do a thing to prevent the Russians or Chinese from knowing whatever they want to know.

[myata]

In a record inflation year, federal tax credits were indexed at 2.4%.

How was the number determined?

Was it the same factor by which MPs index their salaries, straight out of public's pocket?

Why is the number different, what could be rational reasons, in a democracy?

Who is this arrangement working for best, really?

[cougar]

15 hours ago, Contrarian said:

What do you do with the people that don't want your system and want to remain what we have?

Because I don't want anarchy, it has no future, if everyone wants to get at the front to lead at the same time, there is also chaos. 

 

The system is good for just the very rich.  Those will be the ones who do not want a change - squeezing your juices out and living on your back works for them.

The rest are just in a constant stupid competition with each other like mice on a treadmill - for a bigger house, a bigger property, more cars, more toys; always being in debt; always "keeping busy".

So you can't have the smooth transition you might be hoping for, just because it has been proven the system is not designed by the people and for the people.  It is a ill camouflaged dictatorship.

[cougar]

17 minutes ago, myata said:

Was it the same factor by which MPs index their salaries, straight out of public's pocket?

You still stuck on the MP page?   ?

[cougar]

2 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

Yah,  well, we have seen the work of "The People" systems in history. Stalin and Mao in the name of "The People" killed as many people as religion has. 

 

You talk like our system has killed no people.  It has killed plenty of people in the past till the realization that people are a valuable commodity and killing them is bad for the economy.