HERE'S why gun control fails

[reason10]

Having laws on the books mean NOTHING if the population is too stupid to follow them.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/indiana-man-arrested-video-showed-young-child-playing-gun

Indiana man arrested after video showed young child playing with gun

An Indiana man was arrested over the weekend after a boy, reportedly his son, was seen wielding and pointing a gun outside their apartment unit. 

Shane Osborne, 45, a resident of the Indianapolis suburb of Beech Grove, faces a charge of felony neglect of a child dependent. The arrest was captured on the reality TV show called "On Patrol: Live," which follows law enforcement officers on duty. 

Authorities responded Saturday to a 911 call made by a neighbor in the apartment building where the child was holding the weapon in a hallway. 

Here's the law:

https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-gun-laws/indiana/

It is generally unlawful to sell or otherwise transfer possession of a handgun to a person under 18 except if the gun comes from the juvenile’s parent or guardian.

 

[reason10]

Gun laws only apply to gun owners who OBEY THE LAW.

No one seems to care about guns in the hands of criminals.

[Aristides]

52 minutes ago, reason10 said:

Gun laws only apply to gun owners who OBEY THE LAW.

No one seems to care about guns in the hands of criminals.

Americans certainly don't, they will sell them to anyone.

[reason10]

45 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Americans certainly don't, they will sell them to anyone.

That is a stupid lie. And a bigoted lie.

[Aristides]

5 minutes ago, reason10 said:

That is a stupid lie. And a bigoted lie.

Not stupid at all. There is nowhere easier to legally obtain a gun and it shows in the firearms homicide rate.

[reason10]

35 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Not stupid at all. There is nowhere easier to legally obtain a gun and it shows in the firearms homicide rate.

It IS a stupid lie. Americans have gun laws. NO American state will sell a gun to a convicted felon, a minor, an illegal alien, at least not in gun stores.

People EVERYWHERE sell guns illegally. Our unelected racist pedophile president just traded a KNOWN GUN RUNNER for a lesbian basketball player who was doping in Russia and got caught.

[Aristides]

Americans are the biggest gun runners on the planet and they do it in their own country.

[reason10]

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

Americans are the biggest gun runners on the planet and they do it in their own country.

That is a LIE. That suggests that there are no gun laws in America.

There are PLENTY of gun laws here, most of which are useless. And criminals STEAL guns, sell them on the streets, etc, so gun laws are no deterrent for the professional criminal.

Like the moe ronz in Canada, the gun laws are tilted towards people who obey the law. (With the exception of 10-20-LIFE in Florida). There is no such thing as a law abiding criminal.

[herbie]

Laws against murder are useless because murderers won't obey them. So we shouldn't have laws against murder either, eh?

Having laws on the books mean NOTHING if the population is too stupid to follow them.

I really enjoyed you admitting that....

Edited January 17, 2023 by herbie

[Army Guy]

15 minutes ago, herbie said:

Laws against murder are useless because murderers won't obey them. So we shouldn't have laws against murder either, eh?

Having laws on the books mean NOTHING if the population is too stupid to follow them.

I really enjoyed you admitting that....

Or maybe having laws that followed some sort of common sense behind them. If the majority of the problem is illegal guns smuggling then most of the laws should be designed to tackle that issue... instead using Canada's gun laws as an example the government aims those laws at law abiding gunowners becasue in their eyes they are responsible.

In this country we don't care what is happening as long as it does not effect the majority...gun violence in Canada 90 to 95 % is due to guns smuggled in from the US, and yet our government decides to punish law abiding gun owners that will do nothing about smuggled guns.....the Majority of Canadians shrug their shoulders it does not effect me go for it...take all the guns... like i said a little common sense is all everyone is asking. It's not about be smart or stupid...

[Aristides]

3 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

 

In this country we don't care what is happening as long as it does not effect the majority...gun violence in Canada 90 to 95 % is due to guns smuggled in from the US, and yet our government decides to punish law abiding gun owners that will do nothing about smuggled guns.....the Majority of Canadians shrug their shoulders it does not effect me go for it...take all the guns... like i said a little common sense is all everyone is asking. It's not about be smart or stupid...

Exactly, American gun runners are Canada's biggest problem when it comes to gun violence.

[herbie]

Gun laws here have sure as hell stopped 6 year olds bringing Daddy's loaded gun to work and shooting their teacher and 14 yr olds from using Dad's to shoot their friend over a lost game or internet post, haven't they? They nailed the guys who thought they could go all Yellowstone and shoot someone for crossing their property?

Like it's a lame ass excuse that they won't stop criminals because criminals don't obey laws just like I said. All we can do is enforce the laws against criminals we catch. No one wants a land of idiocy with loaded weapons laying around the house and making any excuse whatsoever as justification to use one. No one will put up with 'open carry' and 'concealed carry' BS like in the land of y'alls.

[reason10]

16 hours ago, Aristides said:

Exactly, American gun runners are Canada's biggest problem when it comes to gun violence.

Nope. Canada's biggest problem is the CANADIAN criminals who illegally buy the guns and then commit the crimes with them.

It's like blaming a liquor store for a drunk driving his car into a school bus.

In Canada, you HAVE scumbags who commit violent crime with guns. If they can't buy the guns, they will STEAL them. And suggesting somehow that it's possible to just shut off supply is imbecilic.

In PRISON, one can get heroin.

Don't blame American criminals for your own Canadian scumbags who commit crimes.

And quit being a frikking NAZI and going after your LEGAL GUN OWNERS.

There is no such thing as a law abiding criminal.

[reason10]

https://www.complex.com/life/gun-violence-rising-in-canada

Violent Gun Crime Is on the Rise in Canada

Firearm-related crimes are on the rise in Canada after falling steadily for years, according to a new report.

The survey put out by Statistics Canada compared rates of firearm crimes between 2009 to 2014, and 2015 to 2020. The report also shows that between 2009 and 2013, firearm-related violent crimes dropped from 29 to 19 per 100,000 people, but returned back to 29 by 2020. Handguns were the most used weapons in these crimes for both periods, sitting at 59 percent. 

Also in 2020, there were 8,344 victims of a crime where a firearm was present, which represents 2.8 percent of all violent crime victims in Canada that year. 

The findings also show that gun violence is higher in rural areas than in urban centres in most provinces, which StatCan says may be due to higher rates of firearm ownership in rural communities.

The Canadian cities with the highest rates of violent crime where a firearm was present in 2020 were Regina, Brantford, ON, Toronto, Saskatoon, Winnipeg, and Windsor, ON.

Overall, 25 percent of violent crimes perpetrated against female victims were committed by a current or former partner, contrasting the 2.2 percent of male victims to domestic violence involving guns.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/85-005-x/2022001/article/00002-eng.htm

• There were 8,047 victims of violent crime where a firearm was present in 2021, accounting for 2.6% of all victims of violent crime.
• Compared to 2020, firearm-related violent crime decreased 5% in 2021, from a rate of 29.0 victims per 100,000 population to 27.4 per 100,000.Over the same period, the rate of violent crime overall increased by 4%.
• The decline in firearm-related violent crime was driven by a decrease in urban areas, specifically in the Toronto census metropolitan area, where the rate was 22% lower in 2021 than in 2020.
• The rate of firearm-related violent crime was considerably higher in the rural Northern regions of Canada (107.1 victims per 100,000 population) than in the rural South (26.7) and urban areas (24.8). This is consistent with trends in violent crime in general.  
• In 2021, the rate of firearm-related violent crime in the rural North was at its highest point since comparable data became available in 2009.
• Following a period of decline in the early 2010s, firearm-related violent crime has generally been increasing. The rate of firearm-related violent crime in 2021 was 25% higher than it was ten years earlier, in 2012.
• As has consistently been the case, handguns were the type of firearm most commonly present in firearm-related violent crime in 2021. This was especially the case in urban areas, while rifles or shotguns were more commonly present in firearm-related violent crime in rural areas.
• Physical assault, robbery, and the firearm-specific Criminal Code violations of discharging a firearm with intent, pointing a firearm, or using a firearm in the commission of an offence accounted for 80% of all firearm-related violent crime in 2021.
• Though firearms were present in a small proportion of all violent crimes, incidents where a firearm was present more commonly involved multiple victims and resulted in major injury or death compared to incidents where another type of weapon or no weapon was present.
• In 2021, there were 297 victims of homicide in Canada where shooting was the primary cause of death, a rate of 0.78 per 100,000 population. This marked the highest rate since 1992.
• Shooting was the most common cause of death among homicide victims for the sixth consecutive year, accounting for 40% of homicides in 2021. The majority (57%) of shooting homicides were committed using a handgun.

Earth to moe ron. Those crimes were NOT committed by law abiding gun owners. And you're not going to stop those crimes by disarming law abiding gun owners.

[Aristides]

2 hours ago, reason10 said:

Nope. Canada's biggest problem is the CANADIAN criminals who illegally buy the guns and then commit the crimes with them.

It's like blaming a liquor store for a drunk driving his car into a school bus.

In Canada, you HAVE scumbags who commit violent crime with guns. If they can't buy the guns, they will STEAL them. And suggesting somehow that it's possible to just shut off supply is imbecilic.

In PRISON, one can get heroin.

Don't blame American criminals for your own Canadian scumbags who commit crimes.

And quit being a frikking NAZI and going after your LEGAL GUN OWNERS.

There is no such thing as a law abiding criminal.

 

And how do Canadian criminals get legally bought guns in the US?

Americans are the equivalent of South American Drug cartels who supply drug runners to ship contraband across borders, only in their case it is guns.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Aristides

[reason10]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

 

And how do Canadian criminals get legally bought guns in the US?

Americans are the equivalent of South American Drug cartels who supply drug runners to ship contraband across borders, only in their case it is guns.

And how do Canadian criminals get legally bought guns in the US?

Canadian criminals buy those guns ILLEGALLY, not just from the US, but also from Canadian criminals who illegally sell guns.

Or are you so stupid that you think there are ZERO Canadian criminals who illegally sell guns to each other, STEAL the guns, etc.

Again, there is no such thing as a law abiding criminal.

The UNITED STATES is NOT to blame for Canada's violent gun crimes. That's just plain IGNORANT.

Americans are the equivalent of South American Drug cartels who supply drug runners to ship contraband across borders, only in their case it is guns.

That is a racist LIE. It is NOT backed up with ANY factual data from ANY reliable source. 

Again, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LAW ABIDING CRIMINAL. If you think Canada's passing restrictive gun laws means EVERY Canadian will obey them, you have bat guano for brains.

 

[Army Guy]

17 hours ago, herbie said:

Gun laws here have sure as hell stopped 6 year olds bringing Daddy's loaded gun to work and shooting their teacher and 14 yr olds from using Dad's to shoot their friend over a lost game or internet post, haven't they? They nailed the guys who thought they could go all Yellowstone and shoot someone for crossing their property?

Like it's a lame ass excuse that they won't stop criminals because criminals don't obey laws just like I said. All we can do is enforce the laws against criminals we catch. No one wants a land of idiocy with loaded weapons laying around the house and making any excuse whatsoever as justification to use one. No one will put up with 'open carry' and 'concealed carry' BS like in the land of y'alls.

Stop , comparing our gun laws with the US, they are not even on the same planet. And they never have been, seems every time the liberals decide to bring in more draconian measures that is the first place they go for their stats to prove their point. Gun Violence in the US is their problem not ours..

Yes the lame ass excuse that criminals don't obey the law...But in Canada law biding firearms owners are the ones the screws are being put to, not Criminals, and the funny part the left thinks they are doing something about these illigal guns being smuggled in to Canada.. Gun violence has increased under liberal power, when combine with weaken laws, bail requirements, soft on bad guys...not to mention reducing funding to the departments that actually fight illegal's guns...And the liberal solution, attack law biding fire arm owners...And the new attachments to the hand gun ban do not require any funding to them, becasue they want your guns but will not give you anything for them...your legal private property is going to be confiscated and you have no other recourse but to do it or become a criminal yourself. 

The government has done nothing but lie and deceive Canadians on this topic...from lying about Canadian stats, to using American stats, to changing the definition of words, to just out right lying that this is all going to make you safer...  

..th liberals are not just taking fire arms away they are also decimating sport shooting including Olympic athletes , air soft for the kids, plus any non firing replica's that look like they are scary...and on top of that reclassifying many hunting rifles, bolt action, as assualts type weapons...Your living in Disney land if you think any of these liberal gun laws are keeping you safe.. Bad guys don't give a shit...their bad guys.

Right now every fire arm owner in Canada has a criminal record check, their medical files are checked for any changes in mental health status, EVERYDAY...any changes that raise a red flag and RCMP officers will arrive at your door and collect ALL your guns, good luck getting them back... no compensation no nothing...

[herbie]

8 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Stop , comparing our gun laws with the US, they are not even on the same planet.

Correct.
But the entire auto-response that criminals that won't obey laws won't obey laws is pretty moot. As is the gov't claim they will. So it's pretty obvious they can only rule against the supply and choice of guns for everyone. There are laws on the books for actual gun criminals, but they're the one always bargained away in plea deals.

Unfortunately the truth is that if there was an outright 100% ban on handguns, 3/4 of Canadians would support it and most people aren't going to change their votes over 'assault' style weapons if their normal hunting rifle isn't affected.
The entire issue boils down to lacking a consensus on what constitutes an 'assault style' weapon. Not too many are going to back the right to own Uzzis, M16s and AK47s are they?

[Aristides]

3 hours ago, reason10 said:

And how do Canadian criminals get legally bought guns in the US?

Canadian criminals buy those guns ILLEGALLY, not just from the US, but also from Canadian criminals who illegally sell guns.

Or are you so stupid that you think there are ZERO Canadian criminals who illegally sell guns to each other, STEAL the guns, etc.

Again, there is no such thing as a law abiding criminal.

The UNITED STATES is NOT to blame for Canada's violent gun crimes. That's just plain IGNORANT.

Americans are the equivalent of South American Drug cartels who supply drug runners to ship contraband across borders, only in their case it is guns.

That is a racist LIE. It is NOT backed up with ANY factual data from ANY reliable source. 

Again, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A LAW ABIDING CRIMINAL. If you think Canada's passing restrictive gun laws means EVERY Canadian will obey them, you have bat guano for brains.

 

Those guns have to be bought in the US somehow but you will sell them to anyone. They cannot be bought in Canada without a special permit which is very difficult to get. Almost all the hand guns used in crimes in Canada were smuggled in from the US because you will sell them to almost anyone and you keep no track of any of them. A private citizen in the US can legally buy a handgun and then sell it to almost anyone. A majority of states have no regulations regarding the private sale of guns. Florida is one of them.

Edited January 18, 2023 by Aristides

[reason10]

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

Those guns have to be bought in the US somehow but you will sell them to anyone. They cannot be bought in Canada without a special permit which is very difficult to get. Almost all the hand guns used in crimes in Canada were smuggled in from the US because you will sell them to almost anyone and you keep no track of any of them. A private citizen in the US can legally buy a handgun and then sell it to almost anyone. A majority of states have no regulations regarding the private sale of guns. Florida is one of them.

Those guns can be bought ANYWHERE in Canada in the same fashion that they are bought illegally in the United States. There's no public conspiracy in American government for somehow slipping a few cases of semi auto rifles to Canada. Your scumbags get the illegal guns the SAME way American scumbags get theirs.

When a Canadian scumbag wants to buy a gun illegally, there is no fcking "special permit" involved. Your criminals are just as cagey as ours are. Your country is no better.

Florida (along with the red states in the United States) recognizes our CONSTITUTION and sells firearms LEGALLY to those who qualify. Yes, there are animals in this state who buy and sell firearms illegally, just as there are in Toronto. It doesn't ALL come from the United States.

And Florida doesn't have NEARLY the violent crime as the scumbag blue states. I'll wager Florida is a safer place to walk the streets at  night than Quebec or Ontario. After all, the muggers up there KNOW that the population is disarmed, so you probably have a lot more muggings, car jackings and home invasions than Florida. Here the scumbags understand that they may die in the process.

[Aristides]

57 minutes ago, reason10 said:

Those guns can be bought ANYWHERE in Canada in the same fashion that they are bought illegally in the United States. There's no public conspiracy in American government for somehow slipping a few cases of semi auto rifles to Canada. Your scumbags get the illegal guns the SAME way American scumbags get theirs.

When a Canadian scumbag wants to buy a gun illegally, there is no fcking "special permit" involved. Your criminals are just as cagey as ours are. Your country is no better.

Florida (along with the red states in the United States) recognizes our CONSTITUTION and sells firearms LEGALLY to those who qualify. Yes, there are animals in this state who buy and sell firearms illegally, just as there are in Toronto. It doesn't ALL come from the United States.

And Florida doesn't have NEARLY the violent crime as the scumbag blue states. I'll wager Florida is a safer place to walk the streets at  night than Quebec or Ontario. After all, the muggers up there KNOW that the population is disarmed, so you probably have a lot more muggings, car jackings and home invasions than Florida. Here the scumbags understand that they may die in the process.

 

There is no control of private sales in most US states. A person can buy a gun legally and sell it to anyone they want with no record or background check.

No they can't. You know nothing about Canadian gun laws. Yours make a sieve look waterproof. Nine times out of ten, a Canadian buying a gun illegally is buying one smuggled from the US.

 

The Canadian homicide rate is 2 per 100k. The US is 6.5 per 100K.

Canadian firearms related death rate is 1.94 per 100K

The US is 12.21 per 100K

Edited January 19, 2023 by Aristides

[Aristides]

Florida homicide rate 5.9 per 100K.

Florida firearms related death rate.  13.7 per 100K.

[Army Guy]

On 1/18/2023 at 3:01 PM, herbie said:

Correct.
But the entire auto-response that criminals that won't obey laws won't obey laws is pretty moot. As is the gov't claim they will. So it's pretty obvious they can only rule against the supply and choice of guns for everyone. There are laws on the books for actual gun criminals, but they're the one always bargained away in plea deals.

Unfortunately the truth is that if there was an outright 100% ban on handguns, 3/4 of Canadians would support it and most people aren't going to change their votes over 'assault' style weapons if their normal hunting rifle isn't affected.
The entire issue boils down to lacking a consensus on what constitutes an 'assault style' weapon. Not too many are going to back the right to own Uzzis, M16s and AK47s are they?

If you think that makes sense at all, then you don't know what the problem is.  Punishing law abiding citizens who purchases their firearms legally, and work within all the laws and policies that is where the government is attacking this problem of Criminals getting fire arms illegally across the border...It does not make sense to anyone that has looked into the issue or has a firearm...On top of that these are private property, that the government is seizing, without compensation....This can happen to any of your private property...

3/4 of Canadians do not know what the issue is, nor do they care, or want to care, it has nothing to do with gun safety or your safety, it is all politics....

It is not a lack of consensus, the liberals have twisted it to mean what ever they want it to... Tell me how a bolt action rifle can now be declared an assualts rifle, the same goes for shot guns, air soft, pellet guns, replicas. An assualts rifle is a military grade weapon, that fire single shot, and full auto... that would be about 2 % of all the rifles' being banned...

All those rifles being banned do not have the ability to fire full auto, those were illegal decades ago, magazine capacity has been restricted to 5 bullets for decades now,  any more than 5 rounds and it is illegal and you risk losing all your firearms forever.......Todays banned firearms may look like a assualts weapon , but they do not operate in the same manner , they fire semi auto only...That and the stats will tell you that those weapons are used in about less than 5 % of the violent crimes in Canada. Most crimes are done with Handguns. 

Uzzi's M16 have been banned for decades, the AK-47 that were for sale in Canada fire only semi auto...NO fully automatic weapon sold in Canada for decades...AR-15 are a civilian equivalent to a M-16 and do not fire fully automatic, one trigger pull one bullet, just like any semi automatic firearm. they are not made to kill the most amount of people in the least amount of time, they are made to hunt varmint like fox, coyotes ,wolves, beaver etc...  

[reason10]

On 1/18/2023 at 7:11 PM, Aristides said:

 

There is no control of private sales in most US states. A person can buy a gun legally and sell it to anyone they want with no record or background check.

No they can't. You know nothing about Canadian gun laws. Yours make a sieve look waterproof. Nine times out of ten, a Canadian buying a gun illegally is buying one smuggled from the US.

 

The Canadian homicide rate is 2 per 100k. The US is 6.5 per 100K.

Canadian firearms related death rate is 1.94 per 100K

The US is 12.21 per 100K

There's no control of private sales in Canada either. And we'll wait while you PROVE that ALL guns bought illegally in Canada were illegally smuggled from the United State.

PROVE it or admit you are a LIAR.

[reason10]

12 hours ago, Aristides said:

Florida homicide rate 5.9 per 100K.

Florida firearms related death rate.  13.7 per 100K.

Prove that with a reliable link or admit you are a LIAR.