I will REALLY try to understand if you REALLY try to explain 3 or more genders. Will you try?

[Army Guy]

6 minutes ago, robosmith said:

The DSM 5 DOES NOT classify gender dysphoria as a mental illness, no matter how much you want it to be.

Gender Dysphoria DSM-5 302.85 (F64.9)

Shapiro did not invent the term.

Just a question, who does this Is it a medical doctor or a mental health expert. and why would it not be a mental health problem? 

 

Early diagnosis and treatment decreases the chance for individuals to suffer depression, emotional agony, and to attempt suicide.

Early diagnosis and treatment decreases the chance for individuals to suffer depression, emotional agony, and to attempt suicide.

 

[Army Guy]

22 hours ago, Rebound said:

Let’s just begin here: The kitty litter story is an urban myth. It’s not true, so until you accept that you’re spreading a lie, there’s no point in continuing any discussion. 

Your 100 % right, i did some research and it is an urban myth, my bad. That being said it has been confirmed that there are students that identify as cats and they wear cat customs in the high school. The school allows it becasue they identify as cats; tell me this is normal human behavior. And this is not just schools in NB but across the country and the US. 

[robosmith]

19 minutes ago, reason10 said:

All I've given is science and facts. Until you can show me a homosexual, lesbian or tranny dolphin, (or any other mammal), you have lost this argument. Those aren't jokes, at least not to someone who is intelligent.

YOU pretending animals have mental capacity of humans wrt gender, or the ability to communicate it, is YOUR JOKE.

19 minutes ago, reason10 said:

So far, your extremist entitled, triggered Woke hard left side of the aisle has produced ZERO science or fact in this subject. All you've done is whine about conclusions that are different from yours.

The DSM 5 reference I POSTED HERE, is the consensus of scientific EXPERTS, unlike what you've posted which is JUST YOUR OPINION.

19 minutes ago, reason10 said:

When it comes to jokes, you are a funnier one than I could possibly imagine.

Thanks. I'll be here all week. 

[robosmith]

23 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Just a question, who does this Is it a medical doctor or a mental health expert. and why would it not be a mental health problem? 

 

Early diagnosis and treatment decreases the chance for individuals to suffer depression, emotional agony, and to attempt suicide.

Early diagnosis and treatment decreases the chance for individuals to suffer depression, emotional agony, and to attempt suicide.

 

DSM is

Quote

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) is the handbook used by health care professionals in the United States and much of the world as the authoritative guide to the diagnosis of mental disorders. DSM contains descriptions, symptoms and other criteria for diagnosing mental disorders.

Natural conditions that do no harm by themselves are NOT an "illness."

There is NO WAY to change the lack of synchronization between brain gender development and body physical development other than changing the body. You can't operate on the brain to change its structure.

Per the DSM 5, there is no evidence of success for psychological treatment of gender dysphoria.

 

[reason10]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

YOU pretending animals have mental capacity of humans wrt gender, or the ability to communicate it, is YOUR JOKE.

The DSM 5 reference I POSTED HERE, is the consensus of scientific EXPERTS, unlike what you've posted which is JUST YOUR OPINION.

Thanks. I'll be here all week. 

You definite experienced an inferior blue state public school system if you think I was PRETENDING about the FACT that there are only TWO genders in all the other mammal species on the earth. And since you have produced ZERO proof that some animals might have unnatural urges, I'm assuming you know the truth.

The DSM 5 book is about MENTAL disorders. Gender is ANATOMY. Female genitalia means female. Male genitalia means MALE. That's science. And let's not forget that in the early 90s, the APA tried to suggest pedophelia was a sexual orientation. They only recently made the correction in the DSM 5 book.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/31/apa-correct-manual-clarification-pedophilia-not-se/

 

Your side of the aisle is certainly warming up to pedophelia. Your unelected President is one.

[Army Guy]

3 minutes ago, robosmith said:

DSM is

Natural conditions that do no harm by themselves are NOT an "illness."

There is NO WAY to change the lack of synchronization between brain gender development and body physical development other than changing the body. You can't operate on the brain to change its structure.

Per the DSM 5, there is no evidence of success for psychological treatment of gender dysphoria.

 

That is not the question i asked, see my post and please answer the question, if you go see a brain surgeon you would expect him to do brain surgery...  if you go see a mental health expert, one would hope he is an expert in mental health injuries. Like the ones you described above. 

If you have the symptoms, you described it is a mental health issue. you can say all you want that DSM declares gender dysphoria not a mental issue. How is it not, if you think you're a woman in a man's body there is a problem with the mind, you have said so in other posts.  if i think i'm a cat in a human body it is a mental illness, to the point it brings on the symptoms you describe, all further mental illness and require treatment through a mental health expert. 

Perhaps not yet.   

 

[reason10]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

YOU pretending animals have mental capacity of humans wrt gender, or the ability to communicate it, is YOUR JOKE.

The DSM 5 reference I POSTED HERE, is the consensus of scientific EXPERTS, unlike what you've posted which is JUST YOUR OPINION.

Thanks. I'll be here all week. 

I love how you hacks try to cite sources without even bothering to read them. 

https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/gender-dysphoria-dsm--5-302.85-(f64.9)#:~:text=Epidemiology. The DSM-5 indicates that the prevalence of,2-4.5 times greater than those born as girls.

From DSM5.

Quote

Symptoms of Gender Dysphoria

DSM-5 states that the initial condition for the identification of gender dysphoria in both adults and teenagers is a noticeable incongruence between the gender the patient believes they are, and what society perceives them to be. This disparity should be ongoing for at least 6 months and should consist of 2 or more of the subsequent criteria (American Psychiatric Association, 2013):

• Noticeable incongruence between the gender that the patient sees themselves are, and what their classified gender assignment
• An intense need to do away with his or her primary or secondary sex features (or, in the case of young teenagers, to avert the maturity of the likely secondary features)
• An intense desire to have the primary or secondary sex features of the other gender
• A deep desire to transform into another gender
• A profound need for society to treat them as another gender
• A powerful assurance of having the characteristic feelings and responses of the other gender
• The second necessity is that the condition should be connected with clinically important distress, or affects the individual significantly socially, at work, and in other import areas of life.

In other words, wanting to be another sex is a sign of declining mental health, a DYSPHORIA.

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-dysphoria-4588634

Quote

Quote

Quote

Dysphoria may accompany other signs of depression or mental health problems, such as crying, loss of interest in pleasurable activities, and disturbances in appetite or sleep. Some of the common signs of dysphoria include:

 

 

Now I'm sympathetic to the mentally ill and the depressed. And your own DSM5 correctly defines this problem.

NOWHERE in that text is there a suggestion that scientifically there are more than TWO genders, TWO sexes.

The only incidence of that would be the Hermaphrodites, humans born with both male and female organs and appendages.

[robosmith]

2 hours ago, reason10 said:

I love how you hacks try to cite sources without even bothering to read them. 

https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/gender-dysphoria-dsm--5-302.85-(f64.9)#:~:text=Epidemiology. The DSM-5 indicates that the prevalence of,2-4.5 times greater than those born as girls.

From DSM5.

In other words, wanting to be another sex is a sign of declining mental health, a DYSPHORIA.

https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-dysphoria-4588634

Now I'm sympathetic to the mentally ill and the depressed. And your own DSM5 correctly defines this problem.

NOWHERE in that text is there a suggestion that scientifically there are more than TWO genders, TWO sexes.

The only incidence of that would be the Hermaphrodites, humans born with both male and female organs and appendages.

What does the DSM-5 say about gender?

Quote

The DSM–5 articulates explicitly that “gender non-conformity is not in itself a mental disorder.” The 5th edition also includes a separate “gender dysphoria in children” diagnosis and for the first time allows the diagnosis to be given to individuals with disorders of sex development (DSD).

 

[reason10]

2 hours ago, robosmith said:

What does the DSM-5 say about gender?

 

From the article:

Quote

Early diagnosis and treatment decreases the chance for individuals to suffer depression, emotional agony, and to attempt suicide.

Why would there be treatment if it is not a mental disorder? The head quacks in your source even suggest genital mutilation as a treatment, something the clitoraddectomy  Muslims would envy.

 

Quote

Fortunately treatment options exist that are beneficial for gender dysphoria, and these consist of psychotherapy, pharmacologic therapy, as well as other nonpharmacologic therapies, and sexual reassignment surgery (SRS) (Royal College of Psychiatrists, 2013

Why would SURGERY be required, if Gender Dysphoria is NOT a mental illness?

[robosmith]

51 minutes ago, reason10 said:

From the article:

Why would there be treatment if it is not a mental disorder? The head quacks in your source even suggest genital mutilation as a treatment, something the clitoraddectomy  Muslims would envy.

 

Why would SURGERY be required, if Gender Dysphoria is NOT a mental illness?

You're lying. The ONLY way to do gender reassignment surgery is to change the genitals.

The TREATMENT is to RELEIVE the stress which SOCIETY imposes and the patient FEELS.

It is something they are BORN with, just like a birth defect.

Do you understand that biology makes mistakes sometimes that are painful?

[Rebound]

17 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Your 100 % right, i did some research and it is an urban myth, my bad. That being said it has been confirmed that there are students that identify as cats and they wear cat customs in the high school. The school allows it becasue they identify as cats; tell me this is normal human behavior. And this is not just schools in NB but across the country and the US. 

First you agree it’s a myth then you tell us your lie is true.  And you think it’s the transgendered who need mental health treatment? Look in the mirror.  

[reason10]

15 hours ago, robosmith said:

You're lying. The ONLY way to do gender reassignment surgery is to change the genitals.

The TREATMENT is to RELEIVE the stress which SOCIETY imposes and the patient FEELS.

It is something they are BORN with, just like a birth defect.

Do you understand that biology makes mistakes sometimes that are painful?

I was quoting your wonderful DSM5 book as far as gender reassignment surgery. I merely gave an opinion that performing it on a child child abuse.

Society barely has time to recover from the policies of the goose stepping Democrat Party, much less worry about someone sexual dysfunction.

Better be careful about that "born with" attitude. If all mental flaws (Tranny, Homosexuality, Lesbianism, Pedophelia, etc) are traits that one is born with, you're going to see a lot of those communities suddenly become the most PRO LIFE group of all time. After all, if it can be determined that a baby can be born with a head so screwed up, it would be a perfect time to call Bubba's Pool Hall and Abortion clinic. "You rape em', we scrape em."

As far as biology making mistakes sometimes, that's a hard concept to latch upon. That would mean most liberals are born without a brain, or at least without the capacity to make intelligent decisions and wise choices without letting their emotions get in the way. If you want to go down that road, it's a stretch.

As a substitute teacher who began around 1999, (and this gets me in trouble with a lot of conservatives, so I'm going out on a limb here) I see the dumbest kids in the class being the product of bad parenting, or even sometimes ZERO parenting. And I view parents as a problem in a lot of cases. (Parents who don't discipline their little brats; buy them $200 shoes and phones but no school supplies, stuff like that.)

(I have also subbed for the ESE classes, where the special eds and the autistic get special care. I've actually seen parents designate their little brats as ESE just to get them out of taking tests.)

You want to make the case that liberalism is a mistake of nature, I'll certainly keep an open mind. Gotta be something to explain such stupidity in adults.

 

[reason10]

3 hours ago, Rebound said:

First you agree it’s a myth then you tell us your lie is true.  And you think it’s the transgendered who need mental health treatment? Look in the mirror.  

Your precious DS5 book indicated the need for treatment in trannies. (Didn't you even bother to read that, or is it just a door stop?)

Gender Dysphoria is NOT an entitled protected class, like race-creed-color-religion-national origin. It is a disorder. There is no society need to give special privileges to these people, just because their heads aren't screwed on straight.

I suggest being polite to them because they are disturbed, but this business of getting fired for using the wrong pronouns is right out of the Third Reich.

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, reason10 said:

Your precious DS5 book indicated the need for treatment in trannies. (Didn't you even bother to read that, or is it just a door stop?)

Gender Dysphoria is NOT an entitled protected class, like race-creed-color-religion-national origin. It is a disorder. There is no society need to give special privileges to these people, just because their heads aren't screwed on straight.

I suggest being polite to them because they are disturbed, but this business of getting fired for using the wrong pronouns is right out of the Third Reich.

I don’t know where to begin with you, but I didn’t mention the DSM. 
 

Let’s begin with this comment:  “Getting fired for using the wrong pronouns is right out of the Third Reich.” 
 

WRONG. Rounding up homosexuals and mass murdering them is right out of the Third Reich. 
 

You also said that gender dysphoria is a disorder. In that case, you agree that it is a medical condition. Under Federal law, places of employment and public accommodation must make accommodations to meet their needs.

So, no more discussion is needed. 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Rebound

[reason10]

3 hours ago, Rebound said:

I don’t know where to begin with you, but I didn’t mention the DSM. 
 

Let’s begin with this comment:  “Getting fired for using the wrong pronouns is right out of the Third Reich.” 
 

WRONG. Rounding up homosexuals and mass murdering them is right out of the Third Reich. 
 

You also said that gender dysphoria is a disorder. In that case, you agree that it is a medical condition. Under Federal law, places of employment and public accommodation must make accommodations to meet their needs.

So, no more discussion is needed. 

You mentioned the DSM. It's the reason why i linked to it. Maybe you never actually read a hard copy of it, maybe you never actually took a psychology course, (whereas not only did I take SEVERAL of those easy-A psyche classes in college, I made one instructor so mad that she picked up her copy of what was at the time the DMS4 book and almost threw it at me) but DSM is in the thread.

If you have no problem with someone getting fired for using the wrong pronouns (and I said IF) you are a Nazi.

Suggesting that ANYONE in the United States would even imagine rounding up homosexuals and killing them is not necessarily from the Third Reich. For purposes of modern times, it is from Muslim fundamentalist states like Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, all those wonderful Al Jazeera shitholes you Democrats idolize.  (In fact, your Muslim president Obama actually gave billions of dollars of American military hardware to ISIS, a fundamentalist terrorist group made famous by their beheading a journalist on live camera. That's YOUR side of the aisle.) Even the Alt Right in this country isn't advocating throwing homosexuals off tall buildings, and it is a standard policy in countries where their constitution is basically the KORAN.

It is true that places of employment and public accommodation are required to meet the needs of the handicapped. But there is no such accommodation for the blind getting a license to pilot a commercial airline. There's no such accommodation for a downs syndrome adult getting a license to practice medicine. And there is no national mandate to somehow make trannies feel better about themselves if it means tramping on the liberties of everyone else.

So if you want to goose step to the fairy tale of handing out pronouns to whatever whack has decided he is a woman, or she is a man, this is why you people can NEVER be left in charge of a country.

[robosmith]

8 minutes ago, reason10 said:

You mentioned the DSM. It's the reason why i linked to it. Maybe you never actually read a hard copy of it, maybe you never actually took a psychology course, (whereas not only did I take SEVERAL of those easy-A psyche classes in college, I made one instructor so mad that she picked up her copy of what was at the time the DMS4 book and almost threw it at me) but DSM is in the thread.

If you have no problem with someone getting fired for using the wrong pronouns (and I said IF) you are a Nazi.

Suggesting that ANYONE in the United States would even imagine rounding up homosexuals and killing them is not necessarily from the Third Reich. For purposes of modern times, it is from Muslim fundamentalist states like Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, all those wonderful Al Jazeera shitholes you Democrats idolize.  (In fact, your Muslim president Obama actually gave billions of dollars of American military hardware to ISIS, a fundamentalist terrorist group made famous by their beheading a journalist on live camera. That's YOUR side of the aisle.) Even the Alt Right in this country isn't advocating throwing homosexuals off tall buildings, and it is a standard policy in countries where their constitution is basically the KORAN.

It is true that places of employment and public accommodation are required to meet the needs of the handicapped. But there is no such accommodation for the blind getting a license to pilot a commercial airline. There's no such accommodation for a downs syndrome adult getting a license to practice medicine. And there is no national mandate to somehow make trannies feel better about themselves if it means tramping on the liberties of everyone else.

So if you want to goose step to the fairy tale of handing out pronouns to whatever whack has decided he is a woman, or she is a man, this is why you people can NEVER be left in charge of a country.

IF you keep posting LIES like ^this, no one will take you seriously, nor should they.

[Army Guy]

13 minutes ago, robosmith said:

IF you keep posting LIES like ^this, no one will take you seriously, nor should they.

More lies for you, a recent article from a Canadian new paper. I thought you said you research all of this. 

Quote

Gender dysphoria has a  well-documented association with mental illness. With other mental illnesses, counselling helps patients learn to limit symptoms, develop coping skills and maintain a productive life.

Shawn Whatley: Doctors have gone silent on gender dysphoria. That's not good for patients (msn.com)

[Army Guy]

7 hours ago, Rebound said:

First you agree it’s a myth then you tell us your lie is true.  And you think it’s the transgendered who need mental health treatment? Look in the mirror.  

It is obvious that you have already made up your mind, about a lot of things. Sorry i have already been through treatment with mental health issues, 3 tours of Afghanistan will do that to a person. And all those symptoms your buddy has describe are mental health issues. just goggle that shit.

Gender dysphoria has a  well-documented association with mental illness. With other mental illnesses, counselling helps patients learn to limit symptoms, develop coping skills and maintain a productive life.

Shawn Whatley: Doctors have gone silent on gender dysphoria. That's not good for patients (msn.com)

[Rebound]

1 hour ago, reason10 said:

You mentioned the DSM. It's the reason why i linked to it. Maybe you never actually read a hard copy of it, maybe you never actually took a psychology course, (whereas not only did I take SEVERAL of those easy-A psyche classes in college, I made one instructor so mad that she picked up her copy of what was at the time the DMS4 book and almost threw it at me) but DSM is in the thread.

If you have no problem with someone getting fired for using the wrong pronouns (and I said IF) you are a Nazi.

Suggesting that ANYONE in the United States would even imagine rounding up homosexuals and killing them is not necessarily from the Third Reich. For purposes of modern times, it is from Muslim fundamentalist states like Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, all those wonderful Al Jazeera shitholes you Democrats idolize.  (In fact, your Muslim president Obama actually gave billions of dollars of American military hardware to ISIS, a fundamentalist terrorist group made famous by their beheading a journalist on live camera. That's YOUR side of the aisle.) Even the Alt Right in this country isn't advocating throwing homosexuals off tall buildings, and it is a standard policy in countries where their constitution is basically the KORAN.

It is true that places of employment and public accommodation are required to meet the needs of the handicapped. But there is no such accommodation for the blind getting a license to pilot a commercial airline. There's no such accommodation for a downs syndrome adult getting a license to practice medicine. And there is no national mandate to somehow make trannies feel better about themselves if it means tramping on the liberties of everyone else.

So if you want to goose step to the fairy tale of handing out pronouns to whatever whack has decided he is a woman, or she is a man, this is why you people can NEVER be left in charge of a country.

Dude,

1) I did not bring up the DSM

2) I did not bring up Nazism

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

Lets all take a breath and stop with the "you're a Nazi; no you're a Nazi" nonsense. Firstly I don't think either of you support or want a return to that little political movement so lets move on. 

First and for most I do not understand this issue at all. It makes no sense to me unless I look at it from a mental health stand point. In which case it becomes either doctors catering to their patients psychosis, or treatment that I do not understand and is NONE OF MY BUSINESS!!!! This issue belongs in medical journals not the political ring and shame on who ever brought it here. I view this the exact same way I view gay marriage as a Christian "God said love one another full stop; he did no say love one another unless.. " What happens in your bedroom is your business unless you decide to make it my business. In which case I get to comment on it. You can choose to ignore or debate the comment at that point but we both need to recognize what is being stated is opinion not fact. 

Scientific fact their are three genders for humans: male female and in transition. 

Mental health fact: The brain deals with trauma and experiences we can not cope with or understand at the time in way we have yet to understand. Treatment of these conditions can often seem bizarre to those not in the mental health profession. 

I am not a mental health professional, I do not know how to properly read a article from a mental health journal and comprehend all of the nuances of what was said. Also I stopped listening to the talking heads during Clinton's Presidency so I do not really care what they are saying about this. In my opinion this is much ado about nothing and keeping us the gen pub from asking both sides of the aisle why we are arguing about this instead of fixing something that really matters like I don't know education? health care? poverty? The only way this issue should matter to the Federal Government is concerning the Census.

[robosmith]

9 hours ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

Lets all take a breath and stop with the "you're a Nazi; no you're a Nazi" nonsense. Firstly I don't think either of you support or want a return to that little political movement so lets move on. 

First and for most I do not understand this issue at all. It makes no sense to me unless I look at it from a mental health stand point. In which case it becomes either doctors catering to their patients psychosis, or treatment that I do not understand and is NONE OF MY BUSINESS!!!! This issue belongs in medical journals not the political ring and shame on who ever brought it here. I view this the exact same way I view gay marriage as a Christian "God said love one another full stop; he did no say love one another unless.. " What happens in your bedroom is your business unless you decide to make it my business. In which case I get to comment on it. You can choose to ignore or debate the comment at that point but we both need to recognize what is being stated is opinion not fact. 

Scientific fact their are three genders for humans: male female and in transition. 

Mental health fact: The brain deals with trauma and experiences we can not cope with or understand at the time in way we have yet to understand. Treatment of these conditions can often seem bizarre to those not in the mental health profession. 

I am not a mental health professional, I do not know how to properly read a article from a mental health journal and comprehend all of the nuances of what was said. Also I stopped listening to the talking heads during Clinton's Presidency so I do not really care what they are saying about this. In my opinion this is much ado about nothing and keeping us the gen pub from asking both sides of the aisle why we are arguing about this instead of fixing something that really matters like I don't know education? health care? poverty? The only way this issue should matter to the Federal Government is concerning the Census.

It matters because the suicide rate among minds trapped in the wrong body, is very high, either due to societal stigma or severe internal conflict from lack of synchronization between brain development and body development.

If you're uncomfortable discussing this issue, don't click on the thread.

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

I am fairly certain you just proved my point. I said I believe this is a mental health issue and belongs there not the political arena. It is not ok for anyone to score political points off of people with mental issues.

[robosmith]

3 minutes ago, Jedi_Master_Tallyn said:

I am fairly certain you just proved my point. I said I believe this is a mental health issue and belongs there not the political arena. It is not ok for anyone to score political points off of people with mental issues.

This is NOT just a "political arena." Since according to the DSM 5, it has been demonstrated that mental health therapy is ineffective at treating the brain/body lack of synchronization, that leaves treating the body as the most/only viable solution.  

[Jedi_Master_Tallyn]

1 minute ago, robosmith said:

This is NOT just a "political arena." 

My bad I was not clear I mean "The actual political arena" this is just people discussing it. 

And my opinion is I don't understand it but I do understand that it has to do with mental health and trama and how are brains deal with it and treatment. Which I do not having the schooling for so can only make uneducated guesses.

[TreeBeard]

On 10/10/2022 at 7:55 PM, Army Guy said:

here in NB is high school students dressing up as cats and identifying as cats, so much so that they asked the school to put in litter boxes.

How much do you have to believe an ideology to fall for something so dumb?

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/rumour-targeting-students-who-identify-as-cats-prompts-response-from-yet-another-canadian-school