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I will REALLY try to understand if you REALLY try to explain 3 or more genders. Will you try?


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On 10/12/2022 at 3:12 AM, robosmith said:

Do you know what the suicide rate is for young people who could benefit from gender confirming procedures that don't get treatment?

If it gets to that then this whole thing is a mental health issue that requires a mental health specialist to help with not medical treatments. Why are you in such a rush. 

 Anyone that takes their own life is tragic, but these procedures are being carried out on young children with their parent's support, with a good percentage of them regretting it later, so it is a two-edge sword. I don't see what the problem would be postponing all treatments until 18 years old, and before all of that seeing a mental health professional.

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On 10/12/2022 at 10:40 AM, Rebound said:

EXACTLY! Now you get it! 
I agree with you totally!! I am equally unsure of what medical case a child would need to justify these hormone or other sex-related procedures.  Because I am ignorant, I am not in a position to say that they should be banned. 
 

I assume these are all rare cases, but they happen. Some people are born with indeterminate genitals, and it is not possible to determine gender at birth. That much I know.  Being a parent who subjected my infant to life-threatening surgery, I can say that the politicians should stay the hell out of it.  That’s the last thing anybody involved needs. 
 

The whole point is to protect innocent children. We all agree. I don’t think Ted Cruz in Washington knows better than little Pat, and Pat’s parents and doctor.  This is precisely what Republicans say they’re against: Keep the government out of my life, right? 
 

I’m not pro-hormone therapy, or whatever these treatments are, but I don’t think we should demonize our outlaw medical procedures without truly knowing what we’re talking about. 

I think your smart enough to make the right choices for your child, from making a irreversible action, such as hormone or surgery. 

One can only hope but it is more common than you think, Yes there is always an exception.

Someone needs to protect children from their parents' bad choices as well not all parents are smart enough to do that, so i agree there must be someone out there making these calls, hopefully it is the medical staff.

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8 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

If it gets to that then this whole thing is a mental health issue that requires a mental health specialist to help with not medical treatments.

No one is precluding mental health consultation. I would think it would be encouraged by any doctor.

8 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Why are you in such a rush. 

Who is "in such a rush"?

8 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

 Anyone that takes their own life is tragic, but these procedures are being carried out on young children with their parent's support, with a good percentage of them regretting it later, so it is a two-edge sword. I don't see what the problem would be postponing all treatments until 18 years old, and before all of that seeing a mental health professional.

The whole hormone therapy treatment is to delay puberty because ANY surgical treatments become much more complicated AFTER.

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5 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I think your smart enough to make the right choices for your child, from making a irreversible action, such as hormone or surgery. 

One can only hope but it is more common than you think, Yes there is always an exception.

Someone needs to protect children from their parents' bad choices as well not all parents are smart enough to do that, so i agree there must be someone out there making these calls, hopefully it is the medical staff.

Ok, but I’m not getting much of a picture here. How many kids a year are getting this treatment?

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24 minutes ago, robosmith said:

No one is precluding mental health consultation. I would think it would be encouraged by any doctor.

Who is "in such a rush"?

The whole hormone therapy treatment is to delay puberty because ANY surgical treatments become much more complicated AFTER.

I was specifically talking about your suicide statement, once suicide has been discovered all bets should be off until a clean bill of health is declared.

Advocating any of this to children. 

It is an irreversible procedure once started and what if it was all a mistake and change their mind? 

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24 minutes ago, Rebound said:

Ok, but I’m not getting much of a picture here. How many kids a year are getting this treatment?

For children and adolescents with gender dysphoria,

Hormone Therapy in Children and Adolescents - PubMed (nih.gov)

Hormone therapy is a horrible risk for kids (nypost.com)

Pubertal blockers for transgender and gender-diverse youth - Mayo Clinic

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15 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I was specifically talking about your suicide statement, once suicide has been discovered all bets should be off until a clean bill of health is declared.

And if the suicidal tendency is due to feeling trapped in the wrong body?  

15 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Advocating any of this to children. 

If the child is determine to be irreversibly committed to their feelings, it is better to do it BEFORE puberty.

15 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

It is an irreversible procedure once started and what if it was all a mistake and change their mind? 

Who said sexual reassignment surgery is irreversible? Hormone therapy is definitely reversable; just stop taking them. Anyone has to be really committed to their mindset to even consider it. 

Edited by robosmith
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43 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Thank you!

From the NIH link, there is a study on outcomes from hormone therapy in adolescents:

Results: After gender reassignment, in young adulthood, the GD was alleviated and psychological functioning had steadily improved. Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population. Improvements in psychological functioning were positively correlated with postsurgical subjective well-being.

Conclusions: A clinical protocol of a multidisciplinary team with mental health professionals, physicians, and surgeons, including puberty suppression, followed by cross-sex hormones and gender reassignment surgery, provides gender dysphoric youth who seek gender reassignment from early puberty on, the opportunity to develop into well-functioning young adults.

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21 hours ago, robosmith said:

And if the suicidal tendency is due to feeling trapped in the wrong body?  

If the child is determine to be irreversibly committed to their feelings, it is better to do it BEFORE puberty.

Who said sexual reassignment surgery is irreversible? Hormone therapy is definitely reversable; just stop taking them. Anyone has to be really committed to their mindset to even consider it. 

Not sure why this is not clear to you, the primary reason would be for this person wiliness to take their life, once that is treated then sure tackle the body issue.

The key word here is a "child", it is the parents' responsibility to ensure their safety and to make wise choices for them. 

reassignment surgery is possible, if your insurance covers it or you have some cash stuffed in your pillow. but it is very rare. that being said once your penis is removed that is it, it is gone forever, it's replacement will be a prosthesis.

 In four patients, all surgical steps were completed; two patients are currently waiting for penile implants; and one patient decided against the penile prosthesis. Complications were related to urethral lengthening: two fistulas and one stricture were observed. All complications were repaired by minor revision. According to patients' self-reports, all patients were pleased with the esthetic appearance of their genitalia and with their significantly improved psychological status.

As for the use of hormone blockers they do have consequences, if they have been taken for too long " i thought you knew about this topic. any ways there are consequences you should goggle them.                      

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24 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Not sure why this is not clear to you, the primary reason would be for this person wiliness to take their life, once that is treated then sure tackle the body issue.

Not sure why this is not clear to you, the primary reason is OFTEN the body issue causing stigma and depression.

24 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

The key word here is a "child", it is the parents' responsibility to ensure their safety and to make wise choices for them. 

Who is suggesting that parents don't have a say in ANY treatment of their child?

24 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

reassignment surgery is possible, if your insurance covers it or you have some cash stuffed in your pillow. but it is very rare. that being said once your penis is removed that is it, it is gone forever, it's replacement will be a prosthesis.

 In four patients, all surgical steps were completed; two patients are currently waiting for penile implants; and one patient decided against the penile prosthesis. Complications were related to urethral lengthening: two fistulas and one stricture were observed. All complications were repaired by minor revision. According to patients' self-reports, all patients were pleased with the esthetic appearance of their genitalia and with their significantly improved psychological status.

As for the use of hormone blockers they do have consequences, if they have been taken for too long " i thought you knew about this topic. any ways there are consequences you should goggle them.                      

Of course all these things need to be taken into account by your doctors.

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21 hours ago, Rebound said:

Thank you!

From the NIH link, there is a study on outcomes from hormone therapy in adolescents:

Results: After gender reassignment, in young adulthood, the GD was alleviated and psychological functioning had steadily improved. Well-being was similar to or better than same-age young adults from the general population. Improvements in psychological functioning were positively correlated with postsurgical subjective well-being.

Conclusions: A clinical protocol of a multidisciplinary team with mental health professionals, physicians, and surgeons, including puberty suppression, followed by cross-sex hormones and gender reassignment surgery, provides gender dysphoric youth who seek gender reassignment from early puberty on, the opportunity to develop into well-functioning young adults.

Rebound, our education system, is bombarding our children with all this gender training, driven by the LGBTQ groups, they have planted the seeds and have casted our children to have doubts of their sexuality and gender... it is a big topic with a young child to wrap their minds around. My 3-year-old grandson wants to be batman, do i have his ears surgical altered to be pointy, do i buy him the bat mobile... I fear that this is today's fad, and even parents are jumping on board... i do not see the issue to wait until the child is 18 years of age, at least able to wrap or unpack all this issue and make somewhat of a informed decision. 

In my opinion it is a metal health issue, sure there are exceptions to every rule. My son teaches wrestling at our local high school, some of his students said that the other high school across town was having a school meeting about whether or not to install kitty litter boxes in the locker rooms, not for cats I'm afraid it was for the students that identified as Cats. It was the parents that spoke up and squashed it, except the parents of those cat students they did not see what was wrong with it. And while i am not a mental health expert i would say there is something more to this issue than just wearing a cat custom to school every day as young adults... So, i ask you if you owned your own business would you hire these people that wore a cat suit to work and wanted a kitty litter box to put in the restrooms or would you mark it down as crazy.  

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29 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Not sure why this is not clear to you, the primary reason is OFTEN the body issue causing stigma and depression.

Who is suggesting that parents don't have a say in ANY treatment of their child?

Of course all these things need to be taken into account by your doctors.

We are from very different back grounds, and see things very differently, what i see as a mental health issue you see as a way to solve this issue. Your entitled to your opinion as i am. and i don't see any of us changing the other minds. But thank you for the discussion i did learn more about the topic..

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2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Rebound, our education system, is bombarding our children with all this gender training, driven by the LGBTQ groups, they have planted the seeds and have casted our children to have doubts of their sexuality and gender... it is a big topic with a young child to wrap their minds around. My 3-year-old grandson wants to be batman, do i have his ears surgical altered to be pointy, do i buy him the bat mobile... I fear that this is today's fad, and even parents are jumping on board... i do not see the issue to wait until the child is 18 years of age, at least able to wrap or unpack all this issue and make somewhat of a informed decision. 

In my opinion it is a metal health issue, sure there are exceptions to every rule. My son teaches wrestling at our local high school, some of his students said that the other high school across town was having a school meeting about whether or not to install kitty litter boxes in the locker rooms, not for cats I'm afraid it was for the students that identified as Cats. It was the parents that spoke up and squashed it, except the parents of those cat students they did not see what was wrong with it. And while i am not a mental health expert i would say there is something more to this issue than just wearing a cat custom to school every day as young adults... So, i ask you if you owned your own business would you hire these people that wore a cat suit to work and wanted a kitty litter box to put in the restrooms or would you mark it down as crazy.  

Let’s just begin here: The kitty litter story is an urban myth. It’s not true, so until you accept that you’re spreading a lie, there’s no point in continuing any discussion. 

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On 10/13/2022 at 3:33 PM, Army Guy said:

If it gets to that then this whole thing is a mental health issue that requires a mental health specialist to help with not medical treatments. Why are you in such a rush. 

 Anyone that takes their own life is tragic, but these procedures are being carried out on young children with their parent's support, with a good percentage of them regretting it later, so it is a two-edge sword. I don't see what the problem would be postponing all treatments until 18 years old, and before all of that seeing a mental health professional.

Mental health counseling is often recommended for terminal cancer patients as well, but that doesn’t mean terminal cancer is a mental health problem. 

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On 10/11/2022 at 11:41 AM, Rebound said:

Why does it matter to you? 
I mean… if somebody wants to call themself “they” and wear a dress… why do you care? Aren’t you people all about liberty and freedom?  

We have a problem with people losing their jobs because of the use of the politically incorrect pronoun. That's just NAZI from the start.

We have a problem with men competing in women's sports. (Women have a problem with this as well.)

We have a problem with gender-less school bathrooms leading to RAPE. Kinda hard for a little girl to enjoy liberty and freedom if she is RAPED by a boy wearing a dress.

The basics.

Ben Shapiro had the right take on this matter. Gender Dysphoria.

https://therightscoop.com/watch-ben-shapiro-schools-a-jerk-student-on-gender-dysphoria/

Quote

This jerk student, who was quick to trot out the claim that he’d just won “the most prestigious award in the country to pursue research at any institution” of his choosing, started by claiming that Shapiro was using ‘old data’ in describing ‘gender dysphoria’. Shapiro easily refuted his ‘facts’.

This jerk student then lobbed grotesque insults at Shapiro in front of everyone, saying “you sound like a bozo bro and you get no p***y and you can’t even make your wife wet bro so what’s good?”

 

The crowd quickly booed and Shapiro responded “the nice thing about having several small children is I don’t feel the necessity to have my masculinity challenged by someone like you.”

The jerk student began talking over top of Shapiro, claiming that the idea of two genders is a Western colonial idea.

As a side note, I was honestly shocked that the girl holding the mic was still allowing him to continue after those juvenile and grotesque insults.

Shapiro responded sarcastically, “You’re right. Men and women don’t exist in any other culture. In any. You’re right. Nailed it!”

 

The jerk student highlighted several populations that are not ‘white dominated’ that include a ‘third gender’.

Shapiro responds “And they are incorrect. I’m saying they are biologically incorrect.”

The jerk student once again claims he’s a mathematician and physicist and tells Shapiro that he isn’t a biologist.

Shapiro responded “As a mathematician and physicist, what in the hell do you know about human biology that allows you to deny it?”

 

The crowd cheered!

Shapiro then dropped the mic: “If your logic is so flawed as a mathematician and a physicist, I would suggest that whichever institution gave you an award revoke it immediately!”

I wonder why there aren't three genders in other mammals? You don't see the Darwin EVOLUTIONS "APES TO MEN" crowd claiming there are male chimps, female chimps, and tranny chimps.

As a sub in a few public schools here in Florida, I came upon a couple of instances where effeminate looking boys wanted to be called by a female name, (even though it wasn't on the roster.) Likewise some girls wanted a boy's name.

I wisely downplayed those encounters. I didn't know the school's policy at the time (a sub barely has time to get the room ready and the lesson plan in motion). But I figured the less said, the better. I didn't single the kids out. I didn't make any kind of an issue out of it. Then again, because I sub at Florida schools, (which are the best in the country) we really don't have a lot of free time for political correctness.  Our standards are way too high.

To let you all in on a little secret (at least in Florida, where the best schools are), every school might as well be a separate country. They are run completely differently from each other in most aspects, culture being the dominant factor. I've seen schools that don't even use the same books.

What unites ALL Florida schools (and I'm not so sure about the blue leaning Broward County, which is a joke anyway) is our drive to graduate superior educated students, either ready for the real world or ready for college.

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23 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Not sure why this is not clear to you, the primary reason would be for this person wiliness to take their life, once that is treated then sure tackle the body issue.

The key word here is a "child", it is the parents' responsibility to ensure their safety and to make wise choices for them. 

reassignment surgery is possible, if your insurance covers it or you have some cash stuffed in your pillow. but it is very rare. that being said once your penis is removed that is it, it is gone forever, it's replacement will be a prosthesis.

 In four patients, all surgical steps were completed; two patients are currently waiting for penile implants; and one patient decided against the penile prosthesis. Complications were related to urethral lengthening: two fistulas and one stricture were observed. All complications were repaired by minor revision. According to patients' self-reports, all patients were pleased with the esthetic appearance of their genitalia and with their significantly improved psychological status.

As for the use of hormone blockers they do have consequences, if they have been taken for too long " i thought you knew about this topic. any ways there are consequences you should goggle them.                      

The penile implant procedure is known as an addadicktome.

Edited by reason10
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40 minutes ago, reason10 said:

The penile implant procedure is known as an addadicktome.

Juvenile responses like ^this just prove you (and Shapiro) know NOTHING about the biology of sexual development in the womb.

Here's a clue for you: gender development in the BRAIN and sexual development of the body occur at different times and on rare occasions, are NOT synchronized. All biological processes are subject to such mistakes. Some are fatal, others are not.

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2 hours ago, robosmith said:

Juvenile responses like ^this just prove you (and Shapiro) know NOTHING about the biology of sexual development in the womb.

Here's a clue for you: gender development in the BRAIN and sexual development of the body occur at different times and on rare occasions, are NOT synchronized. All biological processes are subject to such mistakes. Some are fatal, others are not.

You REALLY need to lighten up. The Addadictome has been a sex change operation joke longer (apparently) then you've been alive. It dates back at least to the late 80s. I wasn't aware of a bunch of weirdos back then trying to get special privileges from government just because they "feel" like a gender unlike what their genitalia indicates.

 

Why are there no tranny, lesbian or homosexual horses? Why are there no tranny, lesbian or homosexual chimpanzees. You liberals seem to think humans are just mammals. Why are there no tranny,lesbian or homosexual dolphins? You libs seem to think dolphins are more advanced than humans.

 

You REALLY need to lighten up. I will occasionally make a joke to help lighten up a situation that you are creating tension in. Just accept the fact  that you are not entitled to have the whole world agree with you on every point.

Humans have either male or female genitalia. And if you are one of those whackos suggesting a man can get pregnant, your next home probably will be made mostly of rubber.

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Bottom line, there are TWO genders, scientifically: Male and Female. That is the way it ALWAYS has been and nothing has changed.

If a few people want to claim they are female when they are male and vice versa, that doesn't change the science of their anatomy.

The condition, clinically, is called Gender Dysphoria.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255

Quote

Gender dysphoria is the feeling of discomfort or distress that might occur in people whose gender identity differs from their sex assigned at birth or sex-related physical characteristics.

It is a form of mental illness, like others. I don't mistreat people who have this.

Oh, and for ANY parents or teachers who would send CHILDREN to sex reassignment surgery, they are guilty of child abuse and should be arrested and charged. And if they ever got out of prison, they should have to register as sex offenders. Mutilating a child should almost be a capital offense.

 

(Watch. Some entitled, triggered liberal here will have a problem with those FACTS.)

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44 minutes ago, reason10 said:

You REALLY need to lighten up. The Addadictome has been a sex change operation joke longer (apparently) then you've been alive. It dates back at least to the late 80s. I wasn't aware of a bunch of weirdos back then trying to get special privileges from government just because they "feel" like a gender unlike what their genitalia indicates.

 

Why are there no tranny, lesbian or homosexual horses? Why are there no tranny, lesbian or homosexual chimpanzees. You liberals seem to think humans are just mammals. Why are there no tranny,lesbian or homosexual dolphins? You libs seem to think dolphins are more advanced than humans.

 

You REALLY need to lighten up. I will occasionally make a joke to help lighten up a situation that you are creating tension in. Just accept the fact  that you are not entitled to have the whole world agree with you on every point.

Humans have either male or female genitalia. And if you are one of those whackos suggesting a man can get pregnant, your next home probably will be made mostly of rubber.

You are entitled to your own opinion, but NOT to your own FACTS.

You really need to do some SCIENTIFIC research on the subject before you post your IGNORANCE here. 

Your "tranny, lesbian or homosexual" animal JOKES are falling FLAT.

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38 minutes ago, reason10 said:

Bottom line, there are TWO genders, scientifically: Male and Female. That is the way it ALWAYS has been and nothing has changed.

If a few people want to claim they are female when they are male and vice versa, that doesn't change the science of their anatomy.

The condition, clinically, is called Gender Dysphoria.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255

It is a form of mental illness, like others. I don't mistreat people who have this.

Oh, and for ANY parents or teachers who would send CHILDREN to sex reassignment surgery, they are guilty of child abuse and should be arrested and charged. And if they ever got out of prison, they should have to register as sex offenders. Mutilating a child should almost be a capital offense.

 

(Watch. Some entitled, triggered liberal here will have a problem with those FACTS.)

The DSM 5 DOES NOT classify gender dysphoria as a mental illness, no matter how much you want it to be.

Gender Dysphoria DSM-5 302.85 (F64.9)

Quote

In order to prevent stigma, guarantee clinical care for people who perceive and believe they are a different sex than their designated gender, the new term was introduced (American Psychiatric Publishing, 2013).

....

Early diagnosis and treatment decreases the chance for individuals to suffer depression, emotional agony, and to attempt suicide.

Shapiro did not invent the term.

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1 hour ago, reason10 said:

You REALLY need to lighten up. The Addadictome has been a sex change operation joke longer (apparently) then you've been alive. It dates back at least to the late 80s. I wasn't aware of a bunch of weirdos back then trying to get special privileges from government just because they "feel" like a gender unlike what their genitalia indicates.

Have you ever seen that old Al Pacino movie from the 70s where he was this guy who held up a bank to finance the sex change operation he wanted to get for his boyfriend? It was based on a true story.

Hey, maybe that's how Joe plans to fight crime. Finance their sex change operations so they'll stop heisting banks and such. 

Joe's done crazier things.

Edited by Infidel Dog
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5 hours ago, Rebound said:

Mental health counseling is often recommended for terminal cancer patients as well, but that doesn’t mean terminal cancer is a mental health problem. 

I agree, but if you're talking about suicide like we are, would you say that suicide is a mental health issue. or at least the best approach to handling the problem. 

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1 hour ago, robosmith said:

You are entitled to your own opinion, but NOT to your own FACTS.

You really need to do some SCIENTIFIC research on the subject before you post your IGNORANCE here. 

Your "tranny, lesbian or homosexual" animal JOKES are falling FLAT.

All I've given is science and facts. Until you can show me a homosexual, lesbian or tranny dolphin, (or any other mammal), you have lost this argument. Those aren't jokes, at least not to someone who is intelligent.

So far, your extremist entitled, triggered Woke hard left side of the aisle has produced ZERO science or fact in this subject. All you've done is whine about conclusions that are different from yours.

When it comes to jokes, you are a funnier one than I could possibly imagine.

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