Aristides Posted July 31, 2023 Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 6 hours ago, Nationalist said: I see you're a big fan of the Ukrainian propaganda machine. You know...the media that was left after Zelinsky banned anything he didn't like? Good on ya puppet. Are you disputing that they were held after the invasions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted July 31, 2023 Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 2 hours ago, Moonbox said: That ship has sailed. The Emperor has no clothes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 31, 2023 Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 5 hours ago, Boges said: You seem almost giddy about that prospect. Way to tip your hand. No. Just seein' things for what they are. At the end of this, I bet nobody will know where all the casholla went. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 31, 2023 Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 3 hours ago, Contrarian said: Maybe the man, @Nationalist became a peacemaker now, however, I highly doubt it, the way he addresses folks with: "Nazi fanboy", tells me he still listens to the same old propaganda that comes from the Kremlin. Oh up yours. You know as well as anyone that these warmongers love to call me a Purin fan boy. I think you have too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 31, 2023 Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 50 minutes ago, Aristides said: Are you disputing that they were held after the invasions? 1 was. 1 was just after the Crimea referendum, if im not mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted July 31, 2023 Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 13 minutes ago, Nationalist said: 1 was. 1 was just after the Crimea referendum, if im not mistaken. Ah yes, the Crimean referendum, also taken after the invasion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 31, 2023 Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, Aristides said: Ah yes, the Crimean referendum, also taken after the invasion. So you're saying that Russia invaded Ukraine before 2014? Hmm... https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/24/europe/ukraine-russia-attack-timeline-intl/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted July 31, 2023 Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Nationalist said: So you're saying that Russia invaded Ukraine before 2014? Hmm... https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/24/europe/ukraine-russia-attack-timeline-intl/index.html They invaded Crimea in 2014 and held a referendum after the fact. Same as the Donbas in 2022. Edited July 31, 2023 by Aristides 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 31, 2023 Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 Just now, Aristides said: They invaded Ukraine in 2014 and held a referendum after the fact. Same as the Donbas in 2022. Hilarious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted July 31, 2023 Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Nationalist said: Hilarious... Dumber than a sack of rocks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted July 31, 2023 Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 7 minutes ago, Aristides said: Dumber than a sack of rocks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Crimean_referendum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum Ok so speaking of dumb...you didn't know that Crimea never did want to be part of Ukraine, did ya. As it happens that at the same time the Crimeans were having their last referendum, the Russians were moving in. No shots. No casualties. As if...they'd been invited. Ur a fool. You think everything ur spoonfed is gospel. Ya don't even bother to consider the resent history. The same sentiment existed in Donbas all along as well. Here...have another rock. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted July 31, 2023 Report Share Posted July 31, 2023 You said it yourself, the Russians move in and then a referendum was held. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted August 1, 2023 Report Share Posted August 1, 2023 13 hours ago, Aristides said: You said it yourself, the Russians move in and then a referendum was held. Pfft...ok fool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted August 1, 2023 Report Share Posted August 1, 2023 14 hours ago, Nationalist said: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_Crimean_referendum https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum Ok so speaking of dumb...you didn't know that Crimea never did want to be part of Ukraine, did ya. As it happens that at the same time the Crimeans were having their last referendum, the Russians were moving in. No shots. No casualties. As if...they'd been invited. Ur a fool. You think everything ur spoonfed is gospel. Ya don't even bother to consider the resent history. The same sentiment existed in Donbas all along as well. Here...have another rock. You mean the recent history that Ukrainians overthrew a Russian puppet leader and that was the impetus to annex territories since Putin knew he could no longer control Kyiv? The impasse we're at is you really believe that Russia has a right to this land and that Ukraine should just give it up. Most other posters that engage with you realize that Putin is an authoritarian and nothing "democratic" he does is on the up and up. And if you believe him, you're the fool. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted August 1, 2023 Report Share Posted August 1, 2023 22 minutes ago, Boges said: You mean the recent history that Ukrainians overthrew a Russian puppet leader and that was the impetus to annex territories since Putin knew he could no longer control Kyiv? The impasse we're at is you really believe that Russia has a right to this land and that Ukraine should just give it up. Most other posters that engage with you realize that Putin is an authoritarian and nothing "democratic" he does is on the up and up. And if you believe him, you're the fool. Quote The United Nations Development Programme conducted a series of polls in Crimea between 2009 and 2011 about the question of leaving Ukraine and joining Russia with a sample size of 1,200: Quarter Yes No Undecided 2009 Q3[34] 70% 14% 16% 2009 Q4[34] 67% 15% 18% 2010 Q1[35] 66% 14% 20% 2010 Q2[35] 65% 12% 23% 2010 Q3[35] 67% 11% 22% 2010 Q4[35] 66% 9% 25% 2011 Q4[36] 65.6% 14.2% 20.2% also at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Crimean_status_referendum Quote Gallup conducted an immediate post-referendum survey of Ukraine and Crimea and published their results in April 2014. Gallup reported that, among the population of Crimea, 93.6% of ethnic Russians and 68.4% of ethnic Ukrainians believed the referendum result accurately represents the will of the Crimean people. Only 1.7% of ethnic Russians and 14.5% of ethnic Ukrainians living in Crimea thought that the referendum results didn't accurately reflect the views of the Crimean people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted August 1, 2023 Report Share Posted August 1, 2023 If those polls are accurate, support for joining Russia was steadily dropping. Note that Ukraine was essentially a Russian puppet state until 2014. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted August 1, 2023 Report Share Posted August 1, 2023 26 minutes ago, Boges said: If those polls are accurate, support for joining Russia was steadily dropping. Note that Ukraine was essentially a Russian puppet state until 2014. Boges...you were and are dead wrong about this. No amount of shifting the goal posts and squirming can change that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted August 1, 2023 Report Share Posted August 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Boges...you were and are dead wrong about this. No amount of shifting the goal posts and squirming can change that. No you're dead wrong about suggesting that a separatist faction within a country should necessitate full scale invasion. There was already conflict in these regions from 2014-2022. Russia attempted to take over the entire country, and now that they've failed, fanboys like you insist they've earned the territory they've stolen. Awful precedent to set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted August 1, 2023 Report Share Posted August 1, 2023 14 minutes ago, Boges said: No you're dead wrong about suggesting that a separatist faction within a country should necessitate full scale invasion. I did not say anything of the sort. If you can't discuss honestly...go play in the school playground. There was no "full scale invasion". That didn't happen until years later. 17 minutes ago, Boges said: There was already conflict in these regions from 2014-2022. Exactly. Conflict that got serious AFTER the referendums. 18 minutes ago, Boges said: Russia attempted to take over the entire country, and now that they've failed, fanboys like you insist they've earned the territory they've stolen. Awful precedent to set. Well...Ukraine has evidently failed miserably. This was a predetermined outcome for those of us who actually think critically about world events. For those of us who should really just stay in the playground...disappointment, whining and accusations. None of which saves face...nor change the reality on the ground. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted August 1, 2023 Report Share Posted August 1, 2023 1 minute ago, Nationalist said: I did not say anything of the sort. If you can't discuss honestly...go play in the school playground. There was no "full scale invasion". That didn't happen until years later. But that's the invasion we're discussing. The sanctions and the vast majority of military aide from NATO came about from Putin invading in 2022. You're using examples from pre-2014 as pretence for Putin being able to keep the spoils of war to "keep the peace". It's gross that you believe that's a reasonable solution. Quote Well...Ukraine has evidently failed miserably. This was a predetermined outcome for those of us who actually think critically about world events. For those of us who should really just stay in the playground...disappointment, whining and accusations. Actually there are a scant few examples in recent military history where a larger country can completely subjugate a countries homeland that don't wish to be conquered. The US couldn't do it in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan and the USSR suffered a horrific embarrassment from their 1980's invasion of Afghanistan. If Putin's goal was to cut the head off Ukraine, he's the one who's failed miserably and he's sacrificed som 100,000 of his own people to take less than a 1/4 of Ukraine. Good job! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted August 1, 2023 Report Share Posted August 1, 2023 18 minutes ago, Boges said: But that's the invasion we're discussing. The sanctions and the vast majority of military aide from NATO came about from Putin invading in 2022. You're using examples from pre-2014 as pretence for Putin being able to keep the spoils of war to "keep the peace". It's gross that you believe that's a reasonable solution. What war? There was no war in Crimea. No "invasion" and no war. What there was, was a referendum that overwhelmingly said that the people of Crimea wanted to remain close to Russia. This didn't really surprise anyone because, they'd had similar referendums which produced the same results. The truth is, the vast majority of Crimeans, wanted to remain with Russia instead of Ukraine. That's how "Democracy" works. Aren't you in favour of "protecting Democracy"? 23 minutes ago, Boges said: Actually there are a scant few examples in recent military history where a larger country can completely subjugate a countries homeland that don't wish to be conquered. The US couldn't do it in Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan and the USSR suffered a horrific embarrassment from their 1980's invasion of Afghanistan. If Putin's goal was to cut the head off Ukraine, he's the one who's failed miserably and he's sacrificed som 100,000 of his own people to take less than a 1/4 of Ukraine. Good job! Well Russia hasn't completely subjugated Ukraine. They've secured the eastern...ethnic Russian...provinces. They also have hundreds of thousands of military personnel there to defend that region. That part of Ukraine is now gone. The war was executed the way it was executed. Russian has control of most...if not all by now...of the eastern provinces. Were their tactics sound? Meh...probably not. On the other hand, the Ukrainians realized pretty quickly that Russia can reach into their western provinces at will. With Belarus just north of them, the Russians can attack in force, on short notice. As for Comic-Boy...I have a feeling his tenure is extremely limited and would venture to guess he'll be vacating Ukraine forever, once the dust settles. I understand he's bought his daughter a villa in northern Greece. Perhaps that would be a nice retirement home for him, his daughter and his fashion plate wife? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted August 1, 2023 Report Share Posted August 1, 2023 Well there was a conflict over the other two regions. Russian backed forces were fighting Ukraine. Remember the first Trump impeachment was all over military aide? You're right, the world didn't put up a huge fuss over Crimea. But the 20% of Ukraine's eastern border is a much different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted August 1, 2023 Report Share Posted August 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Boges said: Well there was a conflict over the other two regions. Russian backed forces were fighting Ukraine. Remember the first Trump impeachment was all over military aide? I do remember...I don't think you do though. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/president-trump-impeached-house-of-representatives Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted August 23, 2023 Report Share Posted August 23, 2023 On 8/1/2023 at 9:14 AM, Boges said: Note that Ukraine was essentially a Russian puppet state until 2014. Ukraine had a pro-western government elected 2005-2010, and Putin unsuccessfully tried to poison the president. Then Russia rigged the 2010 election and a pro-Russian dictator came to power, who jailed the prominent pro-western politicians, murdered journalists and opened fire on his own unarmed civilian population, Russian-style, but don’t expect the Putin-apologists on this thread to acknowledge those facts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankyMcFarland Posted August 29, 2023 Report Share Posted August 29, 2023 (edited) On 8/1/2023 at 12:24 PM, Nationalist said: Well Russia hasn't completely subjugated Ukraine. They've secured the eastern...ethnic Russian...provinces. They also have hundreds of thousands of military personnel there to defend that region. That part of Ukraine is now gone. They’ve invaded them and people are getting a very nasty taste of what Russian rule means. On 8/1/2023 at 12:24 PM, Nationalist said: The war was executed the way it was executed. Russian has control of most...if not all by now...of the eastern provinces. Were their tactics sound? Meh...probably not. On the other hand, the Ukrainians realized pretty quickly that Russia can reach into their western provinces at will. With Belarus just north of them, the Russians can attack in force, on short notice. Methinks Mr. Lukashenko will find excuses to stop that happening. His regime ain’t too steady these days either. Edited August 29, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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