CEOs back leftists UBI push

[herbie]

Save your breath your talking with ppl who think commies and nazis are the same thing and don't lnow how the simplest of things work. And worst of all don't care to know or even learn.

You know like when I was on EI and now the CPP the Trudeau communist dictatorship wouldn't let me look for a job and won't let me get one anymore and controlled how much money I could have? Evil, just plain evil I tell you.

And those bosses, they just want to make ouit one remittance form instead of a shitload every month just like the gov't could run one agency instead of twenty dozen... just more money in their pockets yada yada yada

Edited September 15, 2022 by herbie

[West]

4 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Right….  The two mutually exclusive bogey-men coming to hold you down and give you a vaccine…. Or something.  
 

None of that sentence made sense.  Try again. 

Just because you are ignorant of the facts doesnt mean you are correct. 

[West]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Save your breath your talking with ppl who think commies and nazis are the same thing and don't lnow how the simplest of things work. And worst of all don't care to know or even learn.

You know like when I was on EI and now the CPP the Trudeau communist dictatorship wouldn't let me look for a job and won't let me get one anymore and controlled how much money I could have? Evil, just plain evil I tell you.

And those bosses, they just want to make ouit one remittance form instead of a shitload every month just like the gov't could run one agency instead of twenty dozen... just more money in their pockets yada yada yada

UBI is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. All you are going to do is make the price of goods go up.. which in the end the poor still won't be able to afford it and the middle class will become poor because of rising cost of living. 

It's what you see with Trudeau's obsession with printing money to pay for his stupid causes. 

[Michael Hardner]

13 hours ago, myata said:

You don't get it. For protest you would need independent thinking and brain. There will be no protest where nothing independent is left. Russia and Venezuela know but looks like for some of us this is still a news.

Screeching about Russia and Venezuela is not an argument.

UBI isn't slavery, it's a new approach to economic changes.  Is it a good idea?  I don't think it's even practical.

But if we have stupid discussions, then we will get stupid governments.  Good discussions include things like using words properly, and participants conversion points.

[Michael Hardner]

West has no good points.  We should really just let this criticism wither on the vine and replace it with a real discussion.

For one thing: this was proposed in Canada by an establishment conservative High Segal (I doubt many here realize that) as a way to reduce the bureaucracy.  It was embraced by the left most recently, after CERB was doled out.

But the details are not of interest to anyone it seems, such as:

-universality 

-amount of the benefit

-program cuts

-tracking 

If you care about criticizing UBI, have a smart discussion or get out of the way.  Sometimes in life you have to shut up...

 

 

[herbie]

It's just too simple for the simple minded to grasp. Instead of a boatload of programs and bureaucracies you have one. You don't have to file for EI or welfare or CPP. They send you like $1500 a month to live on. When you work it pushes you into a higher tax bracket and they get most of it back. And they don't have to pay umpteen thousands of extra staff to run all those agencies.

And please explain how giving you Welfare or EI causes inflation as it is now?

Plus there already is all those 'lazy bastards who won't work' as it is, that regardless still had to shop in my store, pay for my services or buy the things that the company I work for makes. If they think scraping by is good, to hell with them. I'll still take their money. It's as good as yours!

[ExFlyer]

On 9/15/2022 at 12:41 AM, West said:

UBI is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. All you are going to do is make the price of goods go up.. which in the end the poor still won't be able to afford it and the middle class will become poor because of rising cost of living. 

It's what you see with Trudeau's obsession with printing money to pay for his stupid causes. 

With all the social programs from feds, provinces and municipal, there is already a form of UBI.

[West]

On 9/15/2022 at 1:47 PM, herbie said:

It's just too simple for the simple minded to grasp. Instead of a boatload of programs and bureaucracies you have one. You don't have to file for EI or welfare or CPP. They send you like $1500 a month to live on. When you work it pushes you into a higher tax bracket and they get most of it back. And they don't have to pay umpteen thousands of extra staff to run all those agencies.

And please explain how giving you Welfare or EI causes inflation as it is now?

Plus there already is all those 'lazy bastards who won't work' as it is, that regardless still had to shop in my store, pay for my services or buy the things that the company I work for makes. If they think scraping by is good, to hell with them. I'll still take their money. It's as good as yours!

We literally just saw that with CERB and the rest of the wreckless spending Trudeau has done. 

Giving people more money to chase after the same goods and services is not going to improve their quality of life. The only possible way to do that is through efficiencies in producing more goods and services. 

Not really as complex as you are trying to make it sound. Only the dumb suggest more money is the solution ?

[herbie]

7 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

With all the social programs from feds, provinces and municipal, there is already a form of UBI.

Exactly - one as inefficient as is possible. And slowly adding more layers!

[herbie]

5 hours ago, West said:

Giving people more money to chase after the same goods and services is not going to improve their quality of life. The only possible way to do that is through efficiencies in producing more goods and services. 

Not giving them more money, giving them the money they get anyway with one bureaucracy. And eliminating the need for any more emergency CERB like things in the future.

Ans what all you Free Enterprisers forget is that the economy IS the amount of money changing hands. Not the amount that sits in one place. Like I pointed out before, the Welfare money gets spent. And YOU benefit from it too.

[Army Guy]

On 9/14/2022 at 12:18 PM, Michael Hardner said:

Sorry I didn't realize that we are changing word meanings here and therefore the new use is correct.

....

Stop it.

 

Kind of like gender pronouns... it seems to be the new fad, if you can't make a word up just change the meaning...

[Army Guy]

On 9/15/2022 at 4:47 PM, herbie said:

Plus there already is all those 'lazy bastards who won't work' as it is, that regardless still had to shop in my store, pay for my services or buy the things that the company I work for makes. If they think scraping by is good, to hell with them. I'll still take their money. It's as good as yours!

In Atlantic Canada EI and welfare are ranked amongst the top employers. and if you think 1500 dollars a month is all they make your kidding yourself, there are a raft of government programs that boost well past that figure. That plus under the table work is religion here. 

I understand why welfare is so important, for some it is a life saving measure, but there are entire families on welfare for years, decades and at some time welfare needs to stop and people just need to get a job and contribute.

But many have learned to take advantage of the system, here in the maritime they have made it into a science. scheming taxpayers out of hard-earned money, to play for those too lazy to work... EI is the same we have fishermen making 6 figures then qualifying for EI on the off season. those people are messing it up for those that truly need a helping hand. 

While it may be good for your business, but the question should be why you have to work hard for your money, and they well they get to stay at home, and do whatever they want. 

[Dougie93]

10 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

 but the question should be why you have to work hard for your money, and they well they get to stay at home, and do whatever they want. 

let them stay at home

it's all to the benefit of old guys like me

I've never had so many job offers in my life

the kids don't want to work

so I have my pick of so many jobs

I've been working at one company for months now

and other employers keep sending me emails offering me jobs

I can quit a job on a Friday, and have three more to pick from on Monday morning

this is craziest job market I've ever worked in, employers are more desperate than I've ever encountered before

 

[herbie]

That's the story we grew up with. Then I went there in 2014. Everyone I met was working, tiny outport cafes in Nfld were full at 2:00 pm on a Tuesday whereas we were used to being the one table at the restaurant on Friday night.

The Hwy16 corridor from Prince Rupert east was devastation compared to what we ran into on our trip. Unlike here where they got some kind of grant,l opened a gift shop for one summer charging $80 for a spoon, $50 for a tshirt etc. then closed for good, it seemed out east they'd seemed to make a lot of sustainable businesses from the support they got.

Here in BC the Fraser Canyon serves as an example of what you get if we don't use public money to maintain anything. Ghost towns of shuttered homes, stores, gas stations and motels rotting along the Trans Canada Highway. It's shameful. Is that what people want?

S UBI would save the running around from agency to agency and best of all end this BS of looking down the nose and blaming laziness instead of circumstance.

[QuebecOverCanada]

I think UBI would be beneficial for a number of reasons too.

Despite what you may think, I think Right Wingers should be pushing for it;

1- Easier to give a one-size-fits-all benefit for all those who don't work than having a complicated, bureaucratic system.

2- Easier to track.

3- The cost of said program is lesser than paying for many programs that require lots of scrutiny.

4- Many people just CAN'T work for many reasons such as mental health issues, disabilities, too old, too unqualified, too limited intellectually to function in a work environment. It is better for their dignity to make the process simple and less intrusive, than to have very complicated programs to handle those people.

[Dougie93]

33 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

I think UBI would be beneficial for a number of reasons too.

Despite what you may think, I think Right Wingers should be pushing for it;

1- Easier to give a one-size-fits-all benefit for all those who don't work than having a complicated, bureaucratic system.

2- Easier to track.

3- The cost of said program is lesser than paying for many programs that require lots of scrutiny.

4- Many people just CAN'T work for many reasons such as mental health issues, disabilities, too old, too unqualified, too limited intellectually to function in a work environment. It is better for their dignity to make the process simple and less intrusive, than to have very complicated programs to handle those people.

but this is loonie leftist Canada

so these  UBI scammers will be triple dipping

they''ll still be getting all their welfare checks

they'll still be selling drugs

and they'll be getting UBI on top

rather than UBI tho,

I think the real future will be debtors prisons

the debt bubble is going to pop

the government is going to go insolvent

then the leftists won't have any money to hand to out drug addicts anymore

instead, I predict they will be marched off into work camps, like in the Great Depression

this loonie leftist la la land of money printing to buy votes, in going to crash

then a revanchist right wing government will rule

and all the constituents of the left will be punished, all the leftist sacred cows will be slaughtered

that's how it always goes :boom & bust on a cycle

when the left wing government starts paying people with printed money to stay home

that is the very late stages, right before the whole house of cards collapses

Edited September 18, 2022 by Dougie93

[QuebecOverCanada]

17 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

but this is loonie leftist Canada

so these  UBI scammers will be triple dipping

they''ll still be getting all their welfare checks

they'll still be selling drugs

and they'll be getting UBI on top

rather than UBI tho,

I think the real future will be debtors prisons

the debt bubble is going to pop

the government is going to go insolvent

then the leftists won't have any money to hand to out drug addicts anymore

instead, I predict they will be marched off into work camps, like in the Great Depression

this loonie leftist la la land of money printing to buy votes, in going to crash

then a revanchist right wing government will rule

and all the constituents of the left will be punished, all the leftist sacred cows will be slaughtered

that's how it always goes :boom & bust on a cycle

Dougie, despite UBI not existing yet, there is lots of welfare sent to a lot of people. That costs a lot of money to manage all of the welfare programs, it does not advantage me and you in the slightest the way money is distributed. There is lots of fraud in our existing system. There is a lot of money collected from welfare that is used to finance illegal activities. There are lots of State employees required to run these programs. 

It is better to have UBI, it simplifies everything.

For the later part of your post, may you recall the last time your cycle you're talking about happened?

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

For the later part of your post, may you recall the last time your cycle you're talking about happened?

it was he end of the 1970's

loonie leftist spending finally incited intolerable inflation

and the worst recession since the Great Depression came in 1981

then governments spent the next twenty years cutting all benefits for everyone

like the Chretien Liberals slashed & burned all through the 90's

but that was actually a minor crisis compared to the monster debt bubble collapse coming next

Edited September 18, 2022 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

15 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Dougie, despite UBI not existing yet, there is lots of welfare sent to a lot of people. That costs a lot of money to manage all of the welfare programs, it does not advantage me and you in the slightest the way money is distributed. There is lots of fraud in our existing system. There is a lot of money collected from welfare that is used to finance illegal activities. There are lots of State employees required to run these programs. 

It is better to have UBI, it simplifies everything.

well, I work with the proles down on the loading docks

and they have no sympathy whatsoever for scammers on welfare nor anything like UBI

they say all these leftist parasites are lazy good for nothings

it's going to be the working classes who vote for the revanchist right wing governments

governments so right wing, they will make Margaret Thatcher look like Salvador Allende

just saying

Edited September 18, 2022 by Dougie93

[QuebecOverCanada]

17 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

it was he end of the 1970's

loonie leftist spending finally incited intolerable inflation

and the worst recession since the Great Depression came in 1981

then governments spent the next twenty years cutting all benefits for everyone

like the Chretien Liberals slashed & burned all through the 90's

but that was actually a minor crisis compared to the monster debt bubble collapse coming next

In the 1980s, Paul Volcker raised the interest rates up to 21% to bring inflation down, because it was in the double digits, unlike today. The inflation back then was caused by many things, and absolutely yes, Socialism when gone too far leads to that. For example, Sweden had a State controlled economy up until the 1990s and liberalized after going bankrupt. There are drastic measures that exist, we want to avoid them, but I think by cutting spending by creating an UBI instead of many programs that cost a lot of money and personnel to run, it is better to use these resources elsewhere.

[QuebecOverCanada]

12 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

well, I work with the proles down on the loading docks

and they have no sympathy whatsoever for scammers on welfare nor anything like UBI

they say all these leftist parasites are lazy good for nothings

it's going to be the working classes who vote for the revanchist right wing governments

governments so right wing, they will make Margaret Thatcher look like Salvador Allende

just saying

The thing is there are lots of parasites already, and we're already paying them. And we have an entire bureaucracy to pay on top of the benefits of said parasites.

Nice song btw

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

In the 1980s, Paul Volcker raised the interest rates up to 21% to bring inflation down, because it was in the double digits, unlike today. The inflation back then was caused by many things, and absolutely yes, Socialism when gone too far leads to that. For example, Sweden had a State controlled economy up until the 1990s and liberalized after going bankrupt. There are drastic measures that exist, we want to avoid them, but I think by cutting spending by creating an UBI instead of many programs that cost a lot of money and personnel to run, it is better to use these resources elsewhere.

here's a little graph which illustrates the difference between 1980 & today

in 1980, global debt to GDP was only 30%

now it is 125%

if central banks raise interest rates to Paul Volcker levels  now

that will cause a crash which dwarfs the Great Depression

we are in a debt bubble which is unprecedented in human history

https://www.macrotrends.net/1381/debt-to-gdp-ratio-historical-chart

 

 

[QuebecOverCanada]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

here's a little graph which illustrates the difference between 1980 & today

in 1980, global debt to GDP was only 30%

now it is 125%

if central banks raise interest rates to Paul Volcker levels  now

that will cause a crash which dwarfs the Great Depression

we are in a debt bubble which is unprecedented in human history

https://www.macrotrends.net/1381/debt-to-gdp-ratio-historical-chart

 

 

Yes, and you don't think reducing bureaucracy by having UBI may mitigate that crisis by reducing our budget for personnel at the Federal/Provincial government?

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

The thing is there are lots of parasites already, and we're already paying them. And we have an entire bureaucracy to pay on top of the benefits of said parasites.

Nice song btw

I don't say that impoverished people are parasites

I'm a Christian

I'm just recounting what the workers on the docks say

I'm not advocating for vicious right wing revanchist governments

I'm simply predicting them, based on the historical record, in the events of massive financial & economic crashes

[Dougie93]

4 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Yes, and you don't think reducing bureaucracy by having UBI may mitigate that crisis by reducing our budget for personnel at the Federal/Provincial government?

when you have runaway inflation by the government flooding the economy with dollars

flooding more dollars into the economy by things like UBI, simply makes the inflation worse

the poor will harmed by it, as they drown in spiralling price increases across the board

they are at the ceiling of handing out dollars right now

it's more than diminishing returns already, next comes crisis

Edited September 18, 2022 by Dougie93