Jump to content

Question for Trudeau Haters....


Recommended Posts

14 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

but there's the shoddy logic that underlines the whole conspiracy theory.  The MSM is fake news...until it says something you agree with and then it's...not fake?  

It’s not that there’s no truth in the news. It’s that it’s watered down in order to never make waves with the employer, which in Canada is now largely the government, because of the heavy government funding.  It will get even worse once the CRTC gets their paws on Google, YouTube, etc. and starts telling us what content is “Canadian” enough. The bills are going to the Senate…

Edited by Zeitgeist
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Wrong.  The Conservatives don’t constantly express how shameful Canada is.  The Liberals of the Chrétien era were fiscally prudent.  That party is gone.  The current Liberals stole the 2015 election platform of the NDP and continue to overspend, over-tax, and wonder why inflation climbs and living standards drop.  

I have never head Trudeau say Canada is shameful, although he does have that apology of the week thing going.

Harper apologized too.

Liberals of 2015 released their platform before NDP. We all laughed at Singh when he released his saying it was a liberal clone plus more giveaways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s not that there’s no truth in the news. It’s that it’s watered down in order to never make waves with the employer, which in Canada is now largely the government, because of the heavy government funding.  It will get even worse once the CRTC gets their paws on Google, YouTube, etc. and starts telling us what content is “Canadian” enough. The bills are going to the Senate…

You'd maybe have an argument for the CBC, since it's had a very pro-Liberal tilt as long as I've been alive, but then there's so much else out there that's been anti-Liberal, and then so much outside of Canada that has no federal funding and thus no back to scratch here.  The "MSM is fake news" song and dance ignores the fact that there is mainstream news across the world that doesn't give two hoots about Justin Trudeau and the Liberals.  If you want to criticize a specific media outlet for bias or credibility, that's very fine.  To make it a world-spanning monolithic conspiracy is something altogether different.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

You'd maybe have an argument for the CBC, since it's had a very pro-Liberal tilt as long as I've been alive, but then there's so much else out there that's been anti-Liberal, and then so much outside of Canada that has no federal funding and thus no back to scratch here.  The "MSM is fake news" song and dance ignores the fact that there is mainstream news across the world that doesn't give two hoots about Justin Trudeau and the Liberals.  If you want to criticize a specific media outlet for bias or credibility, that's very fine.  To make it a world-spanning monolithic conspiracy is something altogether different.   

The Star has become radical left in the last decade.  It used to be a great paper.  The Globe is now firmly Liberal.  It used to be Conservative.  The National Post is  pretty centrist.  There are no mainstream conservative papers.  The CBC and CTV are Liberal.  I get my news online now, mostly through Substack.  

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Star was always a far left rag.  The Globe has been predominantly conservative for as long as I've been alive.  The only thing that's changed is that the Globe is rational conservative, rather than conspiracy-clown conservative.  Calling the National Post "centrist" is a joke.  

There are, however, no mainstream conspiracy clown newspapers because conspiracy clowns aren't interested in the news.  They're interested in making and listening to the noises they want to hear and very little else.  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

The Star was always a far left rag.  The Globe has been predominantly conservative for as long as I've been alive.  The only thing that's changed is that the Globe is rational conservative, rather than conspiracy-clown conservative.  Calling the National Post "centrist" is a joke.  

There are, however, no mainstream conspiracy clown newspapers because conspiracy clowns aren't interested in the news.  They're interested in making and listening to the noises they want to hear and very little else.  

The Globe is mostly left wing pablum now.

I’d like to know more about what you consider “conspiracy clown” because your views seem mostly left wing, so I think anything right would fall into the clown category in your eyes.

I’ll venture to assume that you’re referring to people who question having decisions made for them by unelected think tanks overseas in places like Davos.  There’s no conspiracy there.  The attempt of such bodies to make life altering decisions for millions of people is blatant and open.  The pushback against this is real and well understood by many Canadians, especially young people. I think you may just be stuck in an old paradigm of roughly B Clinton versus G Bush type liberal versus conservative.

Legacy media has somewhat lost the plot understanding the new forces at play, which are more about the elites versus the workers and fading middle class.  It’s important to understand this dynamic, because people who are already struggling to pay their bills are being squeezed further by somewhat nebulous abstract causes like “fighting climate change” and “equity” identity politics that are adding costs (e.g. carbon taxes) and creating new forms of discrimination. These causes are elite causes.  They come from liberal arts colleges, corporate training, and political leadership forums.  They’re removed from the everyday challenges most people face.

I’m interested in news that hasn’t been editorialized by self-interested ideologues or editors who are so petrified of losing government funding or being canceled that they won’t make waves when necessary.  If I’m reading opinions, I want them to be deeply critical and honest about the ways in which authorities self-aggrandize and distract from real injustice.

It’s not even about how conservative a journalist is for me. My favourite journalist Beri Weiss is left wing, but she’s merciless to the left and right when it comes to giving an honest and fair account.

If you think that the general MSM consensus Liberal perspective is where journalism should continue to be in Canada, I’m not interested in more government cheerleading fluff.

Edited by Zeitgeist
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The Globe is mostly left wing pablum now.

Because it doesn't only make the noises you want to hear.  It's actual news.  

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’d like to know more about what you consider “conspiracy clown” because your views seem mostly left wing, so I think anything right would fall into the clown category in your eyes.

My views seem left wing to conspiracy clowns. For perspective, when Harper was in power (the guy I voted for) people used to call me a neo-con and I used to argue mostly with guys like eyeball.  I'm a union-bashing, free-market capitalist working in finance and my #1 priority most elections is to vote for the candidate who's going to waste the least amount of money.  Never in my life was I ever called a "lefty" until the conspiracy circus started with trash like Alex Jones, Donald Trump and their demented alternative-fact reality.  

This is the key distinguisher now.  If you're not subscribing to alternate-reality, where all the news around the world is fake until it supports your viewpoint, you're a "lefty".  ?

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Legacy media has somewhat lost the plot understanding the new forces at play, which are more about the elites versus the workers and fading middle class.

Legacy media has (by and large) failed to adapt to the social media echo chambers and the moronic sloganeering of what you have now decided is "Conservative".  The "elites" vs the "middle class" is a good example of this.  The people selling you that tripe are elites themselves - dudes like Sean Hannity speaking up for "the smelly Walmart shoppers" as he calls them.  It's a fiction that they're actually interested in helping you, but they make the noises you want to hear and point at people for you to get angry at and that's an effective distraction.  It's painfully basic "us vs them" psychology.

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s important to understand this dynamic, because people who are already struggling to pay their bills are being squeezed further by abstract causes like “fighting climate change” and “equity” identity politics that are adding costs (e.g. carbon taxes) and creating new forms of discrimination. These causes are elite causes.  

This is typically a topic in which I'd fall in line with you.  Green policy has (so far) been an abominable waste of money, but that's not because climate change isn't real.  It's because they're wasting money on dumb projects.  That's one of the main reasons why Ontario has a PC government now.  Woke politics have been pushed to absurdity as well. 

The problem is that whatever reasonable arguments you'd otherwise make on these topics are drowned in fake science, hysterics and ridiculous conspiracy theories.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Because it doesn't only make the noises you want to hear.  It's actual news.  

My views seem left wing to conspiracy clowns. For perspective, when Harper was in power (the guy I voted for) people used to call me a neo-con and I used to argue mostly with guys like eyeball.  I'm a union-bashing, free-market capitalist working in finance and my #1 priority most elections is to vote for the candidate who's going to waste the least amount of money.  Never in my life was I ever called a "lefty" until the conspiracy circus started with trash like Alex Jones, Donald Trump and their demented alternative-fact reality.  

This is the key distinguisher now.  If you're not subscribing to alternate-reality, where all the news around the world is fake until it supports your viewpoint, you're a "lefty".  ?

Legacy media has (by and large) failed to adapt to the social media echo chambers and the moronic sloganeering of what you have now decided is "Conservative".  The "elites" vs the "middle class" is a good example of this.  The people selling you that tripe are elites themselves - dudes like Sean Hannity speaking up for "the smelly Walmart shoppers" as he calls them.  It's a fiction that they're actually interested in helping you, but they make the noises you want to hear and point at people for you to get angry at and that's an effective distraction.  It's painfully basic "us vs them" psychology.

This is typically a topic in which I'd fall in line with you.  Green policy has (so far) been an abominable waste of money, but that's not because climate change isn't real.  It's because they're wasting money on dumb projects.  That's one of the main reasons why Ontario has a PC government now.  Woke politics have been pushed to absurdity as well. 

The problem is that whatever reasonable arguments you'd otherwise make on these topics are drowned in fake science, hysterics and ridiculous conspiracy theories.  

Again, it’s not really about left v right or con v lib anymore because that traditional binary assumed that certain fundamentals were unshakable, namely free market capitalism, constitutional rights, and representative democracy.

What happens when the people in power aren’t what they pretend to be and the reality of elitist self-preservation is exposed?  I’m talking about a system where the government has become so detached from what most people have to deal with each day that they no longer can really claim to represent the public interest.  Don’t get me wrong, this has always been possible, but the pandemic exposed just how inane and out of touch these institutions have become.

 I don’t even blame the Liberals particularly for this creep, but it’s the result of years of consorting with other privileged and out of touch theorists at various conferences and high level forums.  It’s the result of an ensconced self-referential political class.

We saw many instances of MP’s simply ignoring constituents during the pandemic.  Instead of discussing concerns with people, some MP’s, including our PM, vilified people with opposing views.  It wouldn’t be so bad if the discussions didn’t impact people’s constitutional rights: freedom of movement, the right to earn a livelihood, medical discretion, etc.  Government failed to recognize the importance and necessity of such rights to a free society.

What’s more, the old world political binary struggles to account for the totalitarian impacts of data-driven government that uses algorithms and metrics to determine how much freedom or social engineering is necessary to “protect our healthcare system.”   Basically our democratic rights are sacrificed to uphold a failed healthcare system.  We learned that our reliance on an unsatisfactory government healthcare system has far wider implications for our social conditions  and democracy than we thought.

With regard to your whole Trump-Fox-American freedom thing, which you set up as an unCanadian evil, that’s also a very problematic aspect of your argument   I had issues with Trump and I never watched Fox very much or at all, but Trump tapped into a very real frustration with politics as usual, particularly the kind of detached professional political class that it’s very arguable runs our federal government.

If you value economic and political freedom, it’s very hard to argue in favour of our current Liberal government.  I don’t think you appreciate just how tentative our democracy has become and just how important it is to affirm our rights within it.  Canada and much of the Weat has veered too close to China and too dependent on the state to tell us what we deserve and how we should live.  When a sizeable chunk of the country starts to see this unfolding in our government, that’s a real problem that isn’t just about “conspiracy clowns”.   Certainly ignoring such concerns just proves how far we’ve drifted as a society from important values that used to be considered fundamental.  The safety argument used to justify all sorts of controls starts to look pretty shabby.

So I understand your views as a kind of cognitive dissonance, a difficulty with absorbing how much the forces at play have changed.  Poilievre is popular because he does seem to understand the forces and talks about people wanting control of their lives back.  His rejection of government that’s beholden to unelected international think tanks is also important, because both the left and right parties got too cozy with this out of touch jet set.

As for your unquestioned “reality” of “climate change”, I certainly don’t think most people understand the data on this or just how theoretical and hard it is to discern causes and the human impacts of climate change.  I certainly think it’s stupid to throw billions of tax dollars at “fighting” it   I also think it’s incredibly irresponsible to our energy needs and security to regulate and tax our energy producers into the ground.  It makes life more expensive and less secure for Canadians.

My politics were always slightly left of centre, but the left used to be about workers.  I’ve tried turning to the Conservatives because I think that they now care more about rights and cost of living.  Yet I think the Conservatives can easily lapse into the same out of touch, virtue signalling, self-serving phoney woke-green nut jobs as the Liberals have clearly become.

Time will tell, but if you don’t think that the government funding of print and other legacy media has helped insert government narratives in our press, I can’t help you.

 

 

Edited by Zeitgeist
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Tell a friend

    Love Repolitics.com - Political Discussion Forums? Tell a friend!
  • Member Statistics

    • Total Members
      10,746
    • Most Online
      1,403

    Newest Member
    historyradio.org
    Joined
  • Recent Achievements

    • CDN1 went up a rank
      Rookie
    • User went up a rank
      Experienced
    • exPS went up a rank
      Contributor
    • DUI_Offender earned a badge
      Very Popular
    • exPS went up a rank
      Explorer
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...