Canada's failing health system, perhaps needs. to look at the Dutch public-private health-care model as the fix Canada needs.

[Army Guy]

Premiers are meeting with the PM today to talk about health care, here is what CMA president is saying. I looked at it and it combines the best of both worlds between private and public. maybe taking this from the provinces is a good idea, cut one link out of the chain perhaps.

 

Quote

 

Canada’s current model for providing health care is unsustainable. Despite having one of the highest per-capita spending levels among developed countries, long wait times, overcrowded emergency departments and a shortage of family doctors are plaguing most communities across the country.

And things will only get worse. Just ask Dr. Katharine Smart, president of the Canadian Medical Association (CMA). She recently told CTV News that, “What’s clearly coming is the collapse of the current health-care system.” What “we’re not seeing,” she continued, “is the political will to take that seriously.”

 

Tracey Tremayne-Lloyd: The Dutch public-private health-care model is the fix Canada needs (msn.com)

 

[Dougie93]

I have said many times, that the Swiss, Dutch, Israeli model is the only path to solvency for Canadian provinces

nice to see the state run establishment media coming to my side in the end

?

[myata]

Nobody is left here to look. A look will cost some billions of $$$ and will take a few decades or generations. In the meantime politicans will play a sacred cow football and why not as they are paid for it regardless of the result from the bottomless public budgets. The party will not go on forever. There will be a price to pay.

[herbie]

So the usual bullshit, privatize.

Although no one can name a single thing that is better/less expensive that's been privatized. Ever.

Don't fix it. Sell it off, then we can hold ourselves blameless as it's all in the hands of our Overlords and stockholder masters, we can do nothing but accept it.

[myata]

Look how the bureaucracy sets all and any question into a familiar frame: give us so many billions and .. what? An assured result? Service quality guarantees? No no we're way past that... we'll start looking into it. And so the drama goes. Please show the last time when spending unnumbered $$$ made something new, or fixed anything for real in the country. Is it time to admit it already? All the uncounted billions, the totality of the budgets go into keeping up the status quo; with some reservations and limitations. It cannot do anything else, build new, fix any non trivial problems and for a while already.

[Aristides]

We will watch our system crumble, because any change will be regarded as Americanizing our system, ignoring other universal systems that work better than ours. Canadian health care will always be more expensive than Europe and Asia, simply because of our scattered population.

[myata]

47 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Canadian health care will always be more expensive than Europe and Asia

One could try to formulate it in terms like more diverse, more intelligent, more efficient and more creative but nah why the pocket is bottomless.

[Aristides]

51 minutes ago, myata said:

One could try to formulate it in terms like more diverse, more intelligent, more efficient and more creative but nah why the pocket is bottomless.

Sure but we will still have relatively small communities separated by long distances and hundreds of miles from large population centres. You can't change our geography.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Aristides

[myata]

3 minutes ago, Aristides said:

You can't change our geography.

But you can develop a service model that suits the geography better. But who and how, like when was the last time it was changed, only more bureaucratic cost and less service.

[Aristides]

3 hours ago, myata said:

But you can develop a service model that suits the geography better. But who and how, like when was the last time it was changed, only more bureaucratic cost and less service.

I don't know, not my area of expertise. First thing that has to be done is make them places people will want to work and stay long term. Seems to me that will mean more money as an incentive to go there and more people so the ones you have don't burn out after they get there.

[Army Guy]

22 hours ago, herbie said:

So the usual bullshit, privatize.

Although no one can name a single thing that is better/less expensive that's been privatized. Ever.

Don't fix it. Sell it off, then we can hold ourselves blameless as it's all in the hands of our Overlords and stockholder masters, we can do nothing but accept it.

Not the same bullshit, it is a blended proposal, Federally funded, with health care insurance putting in the other half, or whatever %. Every person/ family will purchase health care insurance. 

Name one federal or provincial program that has been concerned with good business practices.

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, Aristides said:

I don't know, not my area of expertise. First thing that has to be done is make them places people will want to work and stay long term. Seems to me that will mean more money as an incentive to go there and more people so the ones you have don't burn out after they get there.

 If the feds decided to pay all medical school costs, upon graduation you would repay every year of learning you would be required to serve a year in return.  Where ever the feds decided they had shortages in the country. They could move you around like they do in the Army or RCMP. They might be able to fill out these small communities with GP, and or nurse practitioners.

[ExFlyer]

On 7/12/2022 at 4:46 PM, herbie said:

So the usual bullshit, privatize.

Although no one can name a single thing that is better/less expensive that's been privatized. Ever.

Don't fix it. Sell it off, then we can hold ourselves blameless as it's all in the hands of our Overlords and stockholder masters, we can do nothing but accept it.

Actually, there is already private medicine and in a case I personally know, it is cheaper.

My friend needs hip replacement surgery. He has had initial appointment and needs MRI and is on a waiting list for that. Could be a yer. then he will go on a list for surgery and one to 2 year waiting list.

He can barely move so, is went to Montreal in April to a private clinic for the replacement. Got the MRI, the diagnosis and will get surgery mid August. 20 grand cost.

Is it worth it? To him, being in pain and potentially in pain and immobile  for 2 to 3 years, for sure it is worth it.

[Nefarious Banana]

Early 2020 doctors appointment. Leaving, asked her about hip replacement. She said to get the blood work and x-rays while I'm there.  One week later, had an appointment with the surgeon and a surgery date.  Forty-one days after my initial inquiry, I hobbled out of the hospital with a new hip.

Surgeon said that the BC Govt. has a plan to reduce wait times for this procedure.  Friend had his done with an eight week wait.

A two-tier system has many benefits. I'd have gone stateside if the wait was too long.

[herbie]

5 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Name one federal or provincial program that has been concerned with good business practices.

They're not businesses, they're services.

[Army Guy]

13 hours ago, herbie said:

They're not businesses, they're services.

Thanks, Capt obvious thanks for the clarification, but don't businesses provide services as well, hence the service industry...Government is not in business and doesn't care about the bottom dollar, where most businesses are run more efficiently, because every dollar counts. 

[herbie]

Yeah that's why our roads don't get plowed when the monthly budget ran out on the 15th... why a 6 pack is $5 more and they only stock the top sellers at the beer store.

[RedDog]

On April 16th I awakened in the morning fairly certain I’d had a stroke in the night. A Cat-scan later proved me correct. Upon arrival and being registered at ER, I didn’t actually see anyone for 5.5 hours. I didn’t see a doctor for 6.5 hours.

Canada doesn’t have “universal” health care but rationed health care.

[ExFlyer]

18 hours ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Early 2020 doctors appointment. Leaving, asked her about hip replacement. She said to get the blood work and x-rays while I'm there.  One week later, had an appointment with the surgeon and a surgery date.  Forty-one days after my initial inquiry, I hobbled out of the hospital with a new hip.

Surgeon said that the BC Govt. has a plan to reduce wait times for this procedure.  Friend had his done with an eight week wait.

A two-tier system has many benefits. I'd have gone stateside if the wait was too long.

Glad it worked out for you.

[ExFlyer]

10 minutes ago, RedDog said:

On April 16th I awakened in the morning fairly certain I’d had a stroke in the night. A Cat-scan later proved me correct. Upon arrival and being registered at ER, I didn’t actually see anyone for 5.5 hours. I didn’t see a doctor for 6.5 hours.

Canada doesn’t have “universal” health care but rationed health care.

Health care is different in each province.

Problem in ER's is there are far too many people there demanding care for minor problems thus clogging up the entire system.

[RedDog]

19 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Health care is different in each province.

Problem in ER's is there are far too many people there demanding care for minor problems thus clogging up the entire system.

No question, at least in part. Half of ER was filled with passed out drunk vagrants. They had green sticks on their jackets. I had a red sticker so I gather a priority. Lucky me I suppose.

[Army Guy]

On 7/14/2022 at 4:02 PM, ExFlyer said:

Health care is different in each province.

Problem in ER's is there are far too many people there demanding care for minor problems thus clogging up the entire system.

Here in Fredericton, normally there is only one doctor on duty, with one nurse doing triage, average wait time is well over 12 hours, for minor ailments, if you get there early in the morning, after 11 o'clock they will tell you to come back tomorrow. but anything to do with the heart you are going to the front of the line.  But they do have an e system, where you get to see a nurse via zoom call, for all the minor stuff, which cut the line down a lot, but wait times are still out of control. 

Lack of personnel is the problem, and the pandemic made it worse with an awful lot finding new occupations or retiring.