First a trickle....Now a flood

[eyeball]

25 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Perhaps you are reading too much into this. I am not sure if it's true. But I believe it's possible. Accidents can happen.

If it were an accident, it's reasonable to assume that China would not be keen on announcing it. 

The US is apparently looking into it, so that means there is a possibility.

That's about all I know. Do you know more than that?

I know you like to dance carefully around the rim of the conspiracy toilet, back-peddling mostly, but nonetheless you still haven't indicated why you would eschew taking measures and even ramped up measures in the face of an engineered virus. I mean it stands to reason an engineered virus has a tangible measure of intentional malevolence around it that might make it even more deadly right?

You still think it's wise to lift measures in the face of what you think is information that confirms this worst case scenario?  It's had to understand why you've been so nonchalant and dismissive of measures to date given the potential for malevolence since the beginning.

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

I know you like to dance carefully around the rim of the conspiracy toilet, back-peddling mostly, but nonetheless you still haven't indicated why you would eschew taking measures and even ramped up measures in the face of an engineered virus. I mean it stands to reason an engineered virus has a tangible measure of intentional malevolence around it that might make it even more deadly right?

You still think it's wise to lift measures in the face of what you think is information that confirms this worst case scenario?  It's had to understand why you've been so nonchalant and dismissive of measures to date given the potential for malevolence since the beginning.

Obviously at the beginning no one really knew what was going to happen. Whether it was going to spread quickly and kill or what. But after a while you have enough information like statistics, to get a good picture. Serious for the elderly. 

My default reaction is to not trust the government, for a number of reasons. They are unable to change quickly in a given situation, especially if ut makes them look bad. Politics trumps all, in their world.

Which is why they should be given only limited authority. Of course you lnow this already, so the real question is, what's your problem? 

It is the government actions I disagree with. IE mandates, passports, shutting down businesses. They went over the top.

Which may be right at the start, but it went too far and couldn't adapt, as usual.

Evidence? The goddam fed was still working at home until like 4 weeks ago. And many of them still are, now. Meanwhile the real world is fully open for like a year already. 

Shows the way it would be for all of us.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

It is the government actions I disagree with. IE mandates, passports, shutting down businesses. They went over the top.

Which may be right at the start, but it went too far and couldn't adapt, as usual.

Perhaps but then you had a firmer conviction that the disease wasn't as bad as being reported - that it was an overblown  flu that was just killing old farts.  Now with your growing conviction that it was engineered and perhaps even released purposely shouldn't hindsight be suggesting the measures were appropriate and maybe didn't go far enough? 

Do you think it's potentially more dangerous when its been engineered or not?     

Quote

 

Evidence? The goddam fed was still working at home until like 4 weeks ago. And many of them still are, now. Meanwhile the real world is fully open for like a year already. 

Shows the way it would be for all of us.

 

Evidence of what, that the government maintained measures for itself because it knew it was engineered and more dangerous than they were pretending? 

[OftenWrong]

23 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Perhaps but then you had a firmer conviction that the disease wasn't as bad as being reported - that it was an overblown  flu that was just killing old farts.  Now with your growing conviction that it was engineered and perhaps even released purposely shouldn't hindsight be suggesting the measures were appropriate and maybe didn't go far enough? 

Do you think it's potentially more dangerous when its been engineered or not?     

Evidence of what, that the government maintained measures for itself because it knew it was engineered and more dangerous than they were pretending? 

From what little I know about virology labs, they do many different kinds of experiments. The term Gain of Function means making it more infectious, I think. That is separate from lethality.

Why they'd want to do that I have no idea. But it would still be the release of a man-made pathogen into the wild for which we don't know the long-term outcome.

Evidence that the government is incompetent and worse than useless.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

From what little I know about virology labs, they do many different kinds of experiments. The term Gain of Function means making it more infectious, I think. That is separate from lethality.

Why they'd want to do that I have no idea. But it would still be the release of a man-made pathogen into the wild for which we don't know the long-term outcome.

Evidence that the government is incompetent and worse than useless.

So we have evidence of a need for measures in the absence of clear knowledge. Our government really had no choice but to assume the worse and go over the top.

Further to this what choice do we have other than to subject governments to the strictest oversight measures we can mount?

To bad we're so incompetent and useless at doing that.

[OftenWrong]

I recently read somewhere that a group of doctors is making the claim that a lot of people have died from the vaccine. They claim the number is more than all previous vaccine deaths combined.

After an extensive drill-down, I've found this-

"As of February 13, 2022, the European Medicines Agency (EMA) had received reports of over 2.2 million suspected adverse reactions following administration of COVID-19 vaccines, including mRNA vaccines. Of these, around 113,000 reports were considered serious, meaning they either resulted in hospitalization or were life-threatening. The EMA has also received reports of over 18,000 deaths following vaccination, although it is important to note that the reports do not necessarily mean that the vaccine caused the death."

For the USA:
"As of February 14, 2022, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) in the United States has received 901,455 reports of adverse events following COVID-19 vaccination. Of those, 414,196 reports describe serious adverse events, and 17,619 reports describe deaths."

For the UK:
"As of February 2, 2022, the UK's Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) reported a total of 1,314,408 adverse reactions following COVID-19 vaccination, including both mRNA and non-mRNA vaccines. Of these, 123,491 were reported as serious and 7776 were reported as fatal."

Note this data is more than a year old. The numbers are even higher now.

[Goddess]

So some things are happening in the UK.

‘Project Fear’ authors discussed when to ‘deploy’ new Covid variant (telegraph.co.uk)

Quote

Matt Hancock’s plan to ‘frighten the pants off’ the public to ensure compliance with lockdown measures exposed in leaked WhatsApp messages

 

 

 

Matt Hancock tells lawyers he wants immunity on care home deaths during Covid and opponents are 'chasing headlines' - Chronicle Live

 

I think this partly has to do with the Midazolan/morphine killings that went on during covid in nursing homes.  They basically euthanized the elderlies.  Hancock was heavily involved in that.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Goddess

[Goddess]

‘Unnecessary Harm and Animosity’: Ontario Councillor Apologizes for Mandatory Vaccine Policy (theepochtimes.com)

At a council meeting on Jan. 3, immediately after the council rescinded the municipality’s mandatory vaccination policy, Councillor Anne Tessier said she wanted to apologize for the policy and proceeded to read a statement. An excerpt of her speech surfaced on social media on March 2, while the original full-length council meeting was posted on the council’s YouTube channel.

“I want to take a moment to acknowledge that this policy caused a lot of unnecessary harm and animosity within our workforce and community,” Tessier said.

“I believe that this possible policy was mistakenly adopted 12 months ago. The general population knows that today, that the COVID vaccine doesn’t stop the spread of the virus. Twelve months ago, the municipal council was well aware that the spread did not correlate with vaccination status prior to this policy being adopted.”

Despite a constituent having presented public health Ontario data to the council showing that by January 2022, “there were equally or more cases reported per capita in vaccinated people versus unvaccinated people,” she said, the outcome of the council’s vote “resulted in the implementation of this punitive policy.”

“With all my heart, I extend my apologies to those who were affected negatively by this policy and I hope that as a municipality and a community, we can move forward,” Tessier said.

[Goddess]

On 2/28/2023 at 10:23 PM, eyeball said:

So we have evidence of a need for measures in the absence of clear knowledge. Our government really had no choice but to assume the worse and go over the top.

By late spring of 2020, data was coming in from all over the world and it was obvious that only the very elderly, the very obese and those already with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel, were the ones at risk.

But they decided to keep the fear and panic amped up for another 2 and half years......for fun and profit.

You think the vaccine was brought in for covid?  What if covid was brought in for the vaccine? 

Because that's exactly what this has looked like from the beginning, to people who can THINK and were paying attention - including tens of thousands of doctors and scientists all over the world, who needed to be silenced, so they could sell YOU on the false claim that there was scientific "consensus".

[Goddess]

I highly recommend this book, it looks at Canada's over-the-top reaction to covid and is one of the few places where you'll find evidence of the extent of the collateral damage that's been done.

This book deals with the political and social dimensions of the reaction to COVID-19. The moral panic accompanying and compounding the medical and public health responses to COVID remains a prominent feature of Canadian public policy, even after three years. We explore the question of why policy makers persist in promoting fear. This is a political question, not a question of epidemiology. Without disputing the seriousness of COVID-19 for some Canadians, we find the overall national response to COVID has been excessive.

The Truckers’ Convoy in the winter of 2022 raised questions that the government remains unprepared to answer. Those who have embraced what we call the Plague Story—including the subsidized media—see nothing wrong with the state deploying despotic measures and undermining citizens’ rights. This Plague Story depends on deference to authoritative experts, and those who claim to govern with the support of medical pronouncements protect themselves from criticism and give themselves license to damage Canadians individually and collectively with impunity.

The result has been an increase in the power of experts (and medical bureaucrats). Hannah Arendt observed that bureaucratic tyranny is the worst because its power is impersonal, anonymous, and cannot be easily undone. The ambitions of bureaucrats and politicians in Canada are well served by the introduction of this emergency mode of governance. We hope that the arguments of this book will help Canadians to recognize and resist the permanent establishment of bureaucratic tyranny.

[Goddess]

During Coronamania, instead of trying to terrorize everyone, why didn’t the “experts” continually point out that reasonably healthy people under 70 were at near zero risk? Throughout the Corona scare, there remained a wide array of safety and health threats about which public health bureaucrats said nothing. Why not remind heavy, diabetic people that this was a good time to cut the sweets and shed some weight? Why not exhort everyone to get outside to get some Vitamin D and to be active? Why not promote inexpensive, immune-boosting nutrients and therapeutics, instead of pretending that the public’s survival depended on top-down “mitigation” measures like lockdowns, school closures, mask mandates, tests and hospitalizations? These interventions were not only ineffective but bad for public health, including mental health. In fact, they’ve been fatal.

It’s unfortunate that many Americans believed, during Coronamania, that a government title or medical/academic credential conferred knowledge, capacity or motivation for constructive intervention. People and the media bowed down to dishonest, agenda-driven, power-hungry bureaucrats and a bunch of scientifically-illiterate, opportunistic governors and mayors. Instead of obedience, these bureaucrats and pols deserved disdain and ridicule.

Their Scamdemic conduct should cast a shadow over them for the rest of their lives and, after they die, over their legacies. A long-term shadow should be cast over governments, the media, Pharma and medicine, generally.

As H.L. Mencken said, “The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.”

After three years of foolish rules and abject failure, the Coronamania cruise directors won’t admit that they’ve been wrong about anything, when they’ve been wrong about everything. This misplaced arrogance continues. They continue to push injections that have not only failed to stop viral infection and spread—as they had assured—but are temporally linked to tens of thousands of deaths and hundreds of thousands of injuries. The pols, the experts and the media are covering this up. They’re bought by the Medical Industrial Complex.

People should have tuned out the Covid “experts” and politicians from the beginning and instead trusted their own observations and common sense. Instead of heavy-handed, top-down, theatrical mitigation measures, society would have been far better off if people had been allowed to live normally.

~~ Mark Oshinskie, "Dispatches from a Scamdemic"

[Goddess]

This weekend, the Epoch Times interviewed insurance analyst Josh Stirling on its long-form video program “American Thought Leaders.” In the clip below, you’ll hear analyst Stirling describing his analysis of mortality data by geographic area, in which he found a distinct statistical correlation between rates of vaccine uptake and excess deaths.

Stirling summarized his conclusion saying, “the more doses on average you have in a region within the United States, the bigger increase increase in mortality that region has had in 2022 when compared to 2021.” He said the data showed a +7% increase in risk of death for each shot taken, so that a person who took five shots would have a +35% risk of dying compared to an unvaccinated person.

Stirling said they analyzed the data several different ways, and consistently got the same result:

“It exactly confirms the conclusion coming out of the UK data, it’s a different way of doing it, it’s a totally different data set, but ultimately it leads to a very similar mathematical conclusion. Which is a really unfortunate one, because, you know, obviously, hundreds of millions of us have — either we personally or our friends and family, and all of society — now have to deal with all of these consequences.”

Though his conclusions were troubling, the data analyst had an optimistic take: having identified the problem we can work on solutions. I’m an optimist too, but Josh forgot that not everyone accepts there is a problem. Not yet.

But we’re getting there.

 

 

[Goddess]

America' COVID Response Was Based on Lies | Opinion (newsweek.com)

The tragic failure of reckless, unprecedented lockdowns that were contrary to established pandemic science, and the added massive harms of those policies on children, the elderly, and lower-income families, are indisputable and well-documented in numerous studies. This was the biggest, the most tragic, and the most unethical breakdown of public health leadership in modern history.

In a democracy, indeed in any ethical and free society, the truth is essential. The American people need to hear the truth—the facts, free from the political distortions, misrepresentations, and censorship. The first step is to clearly state the harsh truth in the starkest possible terms. Lies were told. Those lies harmed the public. Those lies were directly contrary to the evidence, to decades of knowledge on viral pandemics, and to long-established fundamental biology.

[eyeball]

15 hours ago, Goddess said:

You think the vaccine was brought in for covid?  What if covid was brought in for the vaccine?

Every single thing you've read should be avoided if this is the utterly retarded place to which it leads people.

 

[eyeball]

18 hours ago, Goddess said:

You think the vaccine was brought in for covid?  What if covid was brought in for the vaccine?

Every single thing you've read should be ignored if this is the sort of retarded place to which it leads people.

 

[Goddess]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

Every single thing you've read should be ignored if this is the sort of retarded place to which it leads people.

 

Don't be so sure.

The  people involved in the now proven to be highly likely lab leak, are the same ones profiting to the tune of billions.

Follow the money, as they say.

 

Big Pharma’s Covid-19 Profiteers – Rolling Stone

The author of the above article, Matt Taibbi, is now working for Twitter on the Twitter Files.  He's a true investigative journalist who left Rolling Stone so that he would be free to publish the TRUTH about the things he investigated, instead of being censored by a dominant narrative.

The Covid-19 disaster will rely significantly upon these corporate drugmakers to not only come up with cures and treatments, but to also create a manageable price for people around the world, since the pandemic won’t be stopped unless the whole world gets treated. “Is Big Pharma going to do the right thing?” asks Dana Gill, U.S. policy adviser for Doctors Without Borders. Citing the historic example of the drugmakers’ reluctance to provide HIV drugs to poor nations, and even the high price of hepatitis treatments like Sovaldi, she adds, “There’s plenty of examples of pharma companies not doing the right thing.”

What guarantees there will be a problem? The central role of the United States, whose dystopia of a medical bureaucracy is God’s gift to pharmaceutical companies.

[Goddess]

The Wall Street Journal published an obnoxious op-ed yesterday headed, “Why Scientists Got the Covid Lab Leak Wrong.”

The subheadline delivered a pathetic attempt at some kind of good excuse: “We’re only human, and we’re as susceptible as everybody else to cognitive biases and self-interest.”

Oh.

Well.

OK, then.  ?

Sort of what a lot of us have been saying all along.

Why Scientists Got the Covid Lab Leak Wrong - WSJ

Here it is NOT behind a paywall:

PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions

The problem and the whole reason for the article, is that the government-approved “lab leak” narrative rapidly shifted without any warning, and in doing so, it ran a lot of “experts” right up onto the rocks,  experts who’d fallen all over themselves supporting the old narrative through thick and thin.

In his WSJ article, Trehan suggests several reasonable-sounding explanations for why, even after emerging evidence supporting a lab leak, the MAJORITY of experts still doubled-down, continued pushing the natural origins narrative, and did their utmost to suppress and cancel other scientists with whom they disagreed.

Trehan readily admits all of that happened.

But then Trehan just shrugs his shoulders and quite broad-mindedly explains: “That’s just science!” He pointed out scientists are only humans after all, not lizard people (probably), and since they are humans, scientists have biases and conflicts of interest and politics and tribes and they lust for money and power just like everybody else does.

So be reasonable. Don’t expect scientists to be perfect or anything.

Here's his nauseating apology:

I am not suggesting that scientists consciously decided to thwart the truth. These processes can be insidious and subconscious. But you don’t have to posit conspiracy theories to explain the rush by the science establishment to exclude a lab-leak explanation to Covid. You merely have to admit that scientists are human.

Thanks, but no thanks. I’m not buying any of it. It’s hogwash, rubbish, and utter nonsense.

Because during the pandemic, when all this broad-mindedness could have been helpful, when it would have counted for something, they NEVER said “scientists are human.” They NEVER said “scientists make mistakes.” They NEVER said “scientists have biases.”

Nope. It doesn’t count now. You should have said that stuff three years ago.

In fact, they said the exact opposite. “FOLLOW THE SCIENCE,” they said. “TRUST THE EXPERTS,” they said. “DON’T BE A SCIENCE DENIER,” they said.

Somebody please explain to me how “don’t be a science denier” is AT ALL consistent with “scientists are only biased humans who sometimes make mistakes" - a bunch of scientists, making a metric fuque-ton of mistakes, all at the same time.

What a crock of ??.

The ? NEW ? “experts are infallible” narrative stinks to high heaven.  It's nothing but a scapegoat rodeo of people trying trying to cover their arses.

 

 

 

[Goddess]

 

 

 

 

[Goddess]

Scapegoat rodeo......

 

 

[Goddess]

Lowest excess deaths in Europe over 2020 to 2022 goes to … Sweden!  The one country that did not panic and toss out all science.

[Goddess]

Scapegoat rodeo - Canada style!

 

Yesterday, March 7, 2023, a presentation was given at the School of Policy Studies, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada. It focused on the declared COVID-19 pandemic. Specifically, it was to address “What we didn't know, What we know now and What we wished we had known - The expected and unexpected and policies and principles for next time”. 

In response to a great question about a confirmed COVID-19 ‘vaccine’-caused death, draconian COVID-19 ‘vaccine’ mandates, and the vilification of those who opposed them with good reasons, Dr. Kieran Moore, the Chief Medical Officer of Health of Ontario, gave this crystal clear response…(1:06 mark in the video)

“From the government’s vantage point, when we asked, we asked for a vaccine policy. That policy, if, should have been to the point that if you don’t get vaccinated, they offer, whatever the policy was, they offer an alternate to the individual. So, if you couldn’t, if the school didn’t want you to come to the classroom at a university or college, then you would be allowed virtual. So, so, our vantage point, we, we wanted it to, to, to be a policy framework rather than a mandate. And that we did not have a mandate in Ontario, from this government’s vantage point.” -Kieran Moore-

Get that?  The government and CMO's NEVER pushed mandates, they only asked for policies. He's saying schools and employers did that all their own.

Expect the lawsuits to start rolling in.  Schools and employers will be left completely on their own because the government will not admit to imposing "mandates".  Just like the CDC, they only stated "recommendations" and "policy frameworks". ?  The whole country went hog-wild destroying people's lives with absolutely no compulsion from the government. ? ?

[OftenWrong]

20 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Scapegoat rodeo - Canada style!

 

Yesterday, March 7, 2023, a presentation was given at the School of Policy Studies, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada. It focused on the declared COVID-19 pandemic. Specifically, it was to address “What we didn't know, What we know now and What we wished we had known - The expected and unexpected and policies and principles for next time”. 

In response to a great question about a confirmed COVID-19 ‘vaccine’-caused death, draconian COVID-19 ‘vaccine’ mandates, and the vilification of those who opposed them with good reasons, Dr. Kieran Moore, the Chief Medical Officer of Health of Ontario, gave this crystal clear response…(1:06 mark in the video)

“From the government’s vantage point, when we asked, we asked for a vaccine policy. That policy, if, should have been to the point that if you don’t get vaccinated, they offer, whatever the policy was, they offer an alternate to the individual. So, if you couldn’t, if the school didn’t want you to come to the classroom at a university or college, then you would be allowed virtual. So, so, our vantage point, we, we wanted it to, to, to be a policy framework rather than a mandate. And that we did not have a mandate in Ontario, from this government’s vantage point.” -Kieran Moore-

Get that?  The government and CMO's NEVER pushed mandates, they only asked for policies. He's saying schools and employers did that all their own.

Expect the lawsuits to start rolling in.  Schools and employers will be left completely on their own because the government will not admit to imposing "mandates".  Just like the CDC, they only stated "recommendations" and "policy frameworks". ?  The whole country went hog-wild destroying people's lives with absolutely no compulsion from the government. ? ?

But neither did they offer intelligent guidelines for employers, let alone put limits on what they can do in response to the government's confused lollygagging. 

[Goddess]

My first post in this thread was about 8 months ago.

In 8 months, the truth has come out about

• the jabs are NOT 100% safe,
• they are NOT even close to being able to stop spread,
• NOT able to stop hospitalizations and deaths,
• mask mandates were nothing but superstitious woo-woo,
• lockdowns did far more damage and prevented nothing,
• the virus came from the Wuhan lab,
• adverse reactions are neither "rare" nor "transient"
• more and more doctors and scientists are coming forward
• natural immunity is real
• kids are getting myocarditis
• young athletes are dying on sporting fields
• working age people are "dying suddenly" and "unknown causes" is now the leading cause of death
• governments all over the world are looking at nullifying their Pfizer contracts
• and the dirty, rotten media is actually starting to report on these things.

 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Goddess

[myata]

I read a few papers on the origin of Covid and what strikes me in most pieces is an apparent derailment of the logical direction, especially in the analysis of genetic similarity. Bats have 96% proximity no wait pangolins over 90% all of this is beyond the point (from the outset I admin that this is not my area of specialization; maybe I don't get something or miss some important piece in the arguments).

We have a fact: a virus that emerged apparently from nowhere, with very high, to extremely high transmission in humans. Many, most, all? that I know of, see disclaimer above, cases of zoonotic transmission have starkly, almost opposite characteristics: difficult, slow transmission in humans; identifiable animal host. SARS is like that, MERS and ebola, facts and they aren't going anywhere, regardless of probabilities. So shouldn't that be the question, the mystery to be answered in the first place, why and how, not the percentages of similarities? How can one just walk by it without even noticing?

A mutation facilitating transmission in humans can emerge in bats randomly, sure. But it would have few to no advantages for a bat virus and would be washed away in a few generations. It wouldn't last. A combination of a lucky mutation with successful transmission would be double luck or super luck, and we have two different strains too! To what level can one credibly stretch improbability as "the most probable cause"?

Surely that has to have been discussed in the research community, possibly I'm missing something and I'm curious to know the arguments.

[myata]

The bottom line, from what we have seen of animal to human transmission is that it's not just "jumps hosts". The agent needs at least three essential constituent factors to move species:

- an animal population that is close enough to make the initial transmission;

- a human population to develop and adapt in;

- time.

All three were present in the previous coronavirus epidemics: SARS, 2002; MERS, 2006.

And exactly: none of the three could be seen in the case of Covid: it came out of nowhere right with the necessary characteristics to transmit in humans, and no animal host in sight. Nothing funny, no? Still, the "most likely hypothesis"? How is this even possible? Are we still talking reason, intelligence and science here?

Of course the alternative "conspiracy" until very recently, hypothesis does not have any of these problems. All would be there, the time (in the lab tube), the animal population (in cages) and the desired property. And again, it's not so much the virus a mystery here but what we learn about ourselves. Can a powerful clique really suppress obvious and legitimate and really, gaping questions so that a large part of modern science would produce only expected, prejudged as "correct" results for "as long as necessary"? Wow. How could we tell.