Bill67 Posted May 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said: But something did come out of them I find interesting. You seem to think that certain facts are unmentionable if somebody draws a conclusion from them you don't like. And I could go into great length about why that's dumb but all it requires is one word. Tough. It's much easier to be on sidelines calling people racists than being out there engaging in solutions. Arm chair quarterbacks without a suggestion or a definitive opinion are cowards. They like to just critique without facts from the fence. Who needs them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. That only works in an environment where objectivity, honesty and open inquiry are supported. I have been ambivalent about the use of such statistics but this poster gives a good reason why we don't release them. Surface numbers don't explain the underlying reasons for social problems. If they did, then we would have elevated our discussion around the problems with First Nations people. Instead, we have people on here who frame the problem as these dispossessed people getting too much support from Canada. You talk about objectivity, and honesty but do you feel the same when other groups or government uses the same type of info to say things like, Blacks and indigenous people make up the majority of people incarcerated in this country, which was used to prove our system is racist. Blacks and indigenous people make up the majority of lower-income groups. How many people do you know that are having this conversation about problems Blacks/ first Nations have. I think that most are still talking about how racist we are as a nation and not the real problems that you have addressed, nor has any of our political parties made this an issue...except when it comes down to taking a knee, that they can do. 2 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill67 Posted May 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 Imagine the state of the world when discussion on crime prevention like shootings, murder and human trafficking becomes fuel for claims of " racism "? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 53 minutes ago, Bill67 said: It's much easier to be on sidelines calling people racists than being out there engaging in solutions. Like I want the guy who says 'Jagmeet hates whites' to be leading the pursuit of solutions.... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 24, 2022 Report Share Posted May 24, 2022 44 minutes ago, Bill67 said: Imagine the state of the world when discussion on crime prevention like shootings, murder and human trafficking becomes fuel for claims of " racism "? We're already there. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted May 25, 2022 Report Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) Does Jagmeet Singh hate white people? Who knows and who cares what a failed politician likes or dislikes. The numbers collected reveal a painful yet undeniable truth. Black Canadians perpetrate a shockingly large percentage of violent crime. The real question is why. Well...ya start with 2 groups. The black minority who've been historically downtrodden and the white people who've been trodding on the black minority. Then you introduce a number of policies such as easy access to welfare and easy divorce. Then...you promote social changes. Demean the church and question the existence of a Gawd, normalize and even glorify single motherhood. And the coup de grasse...glorify posetions. Designer clothes, expensive cell phones, personal computers and the like. Price these posetions just out of reach of the army of single parent welfare recipients you've created. Then...watch the anger and resentment build an finally explode. Both groups...black and white...will suffer. But the effect on the lesser of them will drop to unhealthy low standards of living. People want to know why black Canadians cause such a disproportionate amount of crime? I submit the culprit is the "liberalization" of society. Whether on purpose or not, we created the perfect breeding ground for exactly what we have now. Edited May 25, 2022 by Nationalist Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 25, 2022 Report Share Posted May 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, Nationalist said: 1.. Black Canadians perpetrate a shockingly large percentage of violent crime. The real question is why. 2. I submit the culprit is the "liberalization" of society. Whether on purpose or not, we created the perfect breeding ground for exactly what we have now. 1. Not disputing that this may be true but which numbers specifically are we using here. 2. Could also be true but we can't undo that Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted May 25, 2022 Report Share Posted May 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. Not disputing that this may be true but which numbers specifically are we using here. 2. Could also be true but we can't undo that 1. "In Canada, the total black population is 3.5 % and the male population is just under 2%. Based on the few media sources that will identity the race of suspects and police reports, the predominant group responsible for shootings and murders seems to be black, males aged 16 to 40. This segment of the male, black population would be around 1% of the population." 2. Oh but we can undo this. All it takes is the will to repair the damage, the honesty to admit the causes of the damage...and time. Social engineering takes these 3 elements and we KNOW we can undo this...because we created it. So how would I propose to "undo" our own destructive influences on minorities...and black folks in particular? Well...we've managed to utterly destroy the moral foundations of society, primarily by demeaning the church. Personally, I don't think that one is salvageable. But it can be replaced by steady campaign to instill morality and honour back into our society. We can also stop glorifying dumb-ass ideas from fringe gangs like BLM. Call these corrosive elements out for what they truly are...destructive. Give the police back the respect they deserve and allow them to uphold the law without the social nagging. Adjust the legal system so that multiple offenders and certain crimes carry a penalty so abhorrent that only the most intent criminals would even consider such an act. Actively promote the family unit. Make divorce difficult again and painful to attain. Turn welfare into a jobs creation program. Bring back the idea of winning and losing. Quit coddling our kids and stop giving them trophies for losing. Promote success. Encourage competition. Bring national pride back to the forefront. Canadian flags in every classroom. The Canadian anthem played at the beginning of every school day. Then...watch on for about 15 years as the black community begins to rise from the pit of despair our own liberal ideals created for them. Will...Honesty...and Time. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 25, 2022 Report Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Nationalist said: 1. "In Canada, the total black population is 3.5 % and the male population is just under 2%. Based on the few media sources that will identity the race of suspects and police reports, the predominant group responsible for shootings and murders seems to be black, males aged 16 to 40. This segment of the male, black population would be around 1% of the population." 2. Oh but we can undo this. All it takes is the will to repair the damage, the honesty to admit the causes of the damage...and time. Social engineering takes these 3 elements and we KNOW we can undo this...because we created it. 3. But it can be replaced by steady campaign to instill morality and honour back into our society. 4. We can also stop glorifying dumb-ass ideas from fringe gangs like BLM. 5. Actively promote the family unit. Make divorce difficult again and painful to attain. 6. Turn welfare into a jobs creation program. 7. Bring back the idea of winning and losing. Quit coddling our kids and stop giving them trophies for losing. Promote success. Encourage competition. Bring national pride back to the forefront. Canadian flags in every classroom. The Canadian anthem played at the beginning of every school day. 8. Then...watch on for about 15 years as the black community begins to rise from the pit of despair our own liberal ideals created for them. 1. Who wrote that ? What data did they use ? Where was the study posted so people could analyze the results, ask questions and look at the methods ? 2. I admire your optimism. 3. I agree. But "society" needs to be repaired across political, religious, racial, age and especially class boundries. I would say that you need to repair those breaks as you are helping a single group. 4. You need cross-political support and if you malign BLM you will not get it. 5. It remains to be seen whether keeping unhappy families together by law would be helpful. 6. I agree with this and we do it in Ontario. 7. Some of this is doable but empty patriotism and such doesn't help. Also a lot of these suggestions are surface level only, and probably wouldn't be successful but at least you are thinking about them. 8. These types of things have been tried, ongoing for awhile. I think that something deeper is necessary but again I applaud you suggesting approaches. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted May 25, 2022 Report Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. Who wrote that ? What data did they use ? Where was the study posted so people could analyze the results, ask questions and look at the methods ? 2. I admire your optimism. 3. I agree. But "society" needs to be repaired across political, religious, racial, age and especially class boundries. I would say that you need to repair those breaks as you are helping a single group. 4. You need cross-political support and if you malign BLM you will not get it. 5. It remains to be seen whether keeping unhappy families together by law would be helpful. 6. I agree with this and we do it in Ontario. 7. Some of this is doable but empty patriotism and such doesn't help. Also a lot of these suggestions are surface level only, and probably wouldn't be successful but at least you are thinking about them. 8. These types of things have been tried, ongoing for awhile. I think that something deeper is necessary but again I applaud you suggesting approaches. 1. https://www.torontopolice.on.ca/homicide/mostwanted.php For only 2% of the Canadian population, I'd say its rather visually obvious. Wouldn't you? 2. Its more than just optimism. Its "hope". When we remove "hope" from the lives of people...we get violence. 3. Agreed. Our government subsidizes the hell outta our news media. Make them work for their keep. Dictate the political slant they must take. Any who refuse...can try to succeed without the subsidies. They'll fall in line. The effects would be felt by all Canadians, because its "fair" to all Canadians and produces positive, uniting influences on society as a whole. 4. BLM needs to be destroyed.! Same for any white supremacy groups. They need to be rounded up and caged. We can charge them with "terrorism". At least that'll be 1 good way of using this...nonsensical term. 5. I've been married 31 years now. My wife and I have had some pretty nasty times. Both of us have fallen from the vows we took. But we both recognized that, no matter what or who may try to come between us, we actually loved each other and our love for our children is so overwhelming that, actually splitting up is unthinkable. Instead...we opted for honesty and forgiveness...and it works. 6. BS we do. The baby making business is alive and well in Ontario. Welfare is easier now than ever before to get. Politicians speak of building low rent complexes in areas of affluence...which WILL exacerbate the issue. 7. Patriotism of any form is a good influence.! 8. OK...explain what you mean by "deeper". Because NOW your finally "cookin' with gas". Edited May 25, 2022 by Nationalist Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 25, 2022 Report Share Posted May 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Nationalist said: 1. https://www.torontopolice.on.ca/homicide/mostwanted.php For only 2% of the Canadian population, I'd say its rather visually obvious. Wouldn't you? 2. Agreed. Our government subsidizes the hell outta our news media. Make them work for their keep. Dictate the political slant they must take. Any who refuse...can try to succeed without the subsidies. They'll fall in line. 3. BLM needs to be destroyed 4. BS we do. The baby making business is alive and well in Ontario. Welfare is easier now than ever before to get. Politicians speak of building low rent complexes in areas of affluence...which WILL exacerbate the issue. 5. OK...explain what you mean be "deeper". Because NOW your finally "cookin' with gas". 1. Sure but there's lots that needs to be answered there still. 2. Politicize the media ? Uh... 3. You don't like BLM, got it. But you lose significant numbers if you exclude them. 4. Ontario Works - look it up 5. I agree that practical solutions are needed, and politics needs to be left at the door or bickering will result. Money may need to be spent. I say to fund pilot projects and see how it goes. Some of them may be expensive but if you have conservatives involved they will validate whether the expense will "pay back". If you gave a common criminal $100K in his pocket and were guaranteed that he would never crime again you would save a lot of money. A true conservative buys into that conceptually. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted May 25, 2022 Report Share Posted May 25, 2022 8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. Sure but there's lots that needs to be answered there still. 2. Politicize the media ? Uh... 3. You don't like BLM, got it. But you lose significant numbers if you exclude them. 4. Ontario Works - look it up 5. I agree that practical solutions are needed, and politics needs to be left at the door or bickering will result. Money may need to be spent. I say to fund pilot projects and see how it goes. Some of them may be expensive but if you have conservatives involved they will validate whether the expense will "pay back". If you gave a common criminal $100K in his pocket and were guaranteed that he would never crime again you would save a lot of money. A true conservative buys into that conceptually. 1. Indeed but this is a good place to start. 2. Not "politicize"..."socialize". BOTH sides of the political isle need to be onboard with such an action. 3. Don't like BLM is an understatement. I loath BLM and any race-baiting organization that exists. As far as I'm concerned...they are all criminals. 4. Ontario Works...for the construction companies. And that's a good thing as they employ a lot of citizens. But on its own, its nothing more than a pee-hole in the snow. This program needs to be backed by serious adjustments to our welfare system in order to be truly effective in the long run. 5. If you gave a common criminal $100,000, he or she would probably blow it all and go back to crime. Its the lifetime of training we need to adjust. Not short term games. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 25, 2022 Report Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: If you gave a common criminal $100,000, he or she would probably blow it all and go back to crime. "If you gave a common criminal $100K in his pocket and were guaranteed that he would never crime again" Do you think there's something wrong with this as a principle ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted May 25, 2022 Report Share Posted May 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said: "If you gave a common criminal $100K in his pocket and were guaranteed that he would never crime again" Do you think there's something wrong with this as a principle ? Its "pie in the sky" thinking. How many criminals have you ever met that would act in the manner you suggest? In my life, I've known a lot of criminals...was even one myself for a brief but lucrative time. The reason so many people turn to crime is because its "easy money". However the reason most eventually wind up in jail is because that "easy money" is also easily spent and the criminal believes its also "easily replaced". Only the really wise criminal can hope to make crime truly successful. But those are far and few between and those who were wise...now have their kids in law school or are running for government offices. These "wise criminals" prey on the week-minded and uneducated for their muscle and labour. They don't give a rat's ass if a handful of them get shot or busted. The lower rungs are completely expendable. They get their "easy money" and are very "easily replaced". Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill67 Posted May 25, 2022 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Its "pie in the sky" thinking. How many criminals have you ever met that would act in the manner you suggest? I agree with Nationalist but.. What a silly hypothetical question. It holds no value but to respond of course 100k would not stop crime. Can't even buy a house for less than a million. Anyone ever see a rap video? The 100k would go to bling and " popping bottles " and would not last a month. Let's understand the make up of a violent criminal and engage in active prevention. This takes data and a scientific approach. And risks offending woke SJW who hate facts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 25, 2022 Report Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, Nationalist said: Well...we've managed to utterly destroy the moral foundations of society, primarily by demeaning the church. Personally, I don't think that one is salvageable. But it can be replaced by steady campaign to instill morality and honour back into our society. Before we do however we need to be honest and admit that the church has spent spent centuries demeaning human beings around the planet and especially any who weren't white. I would argue the campaign is underway but just not at a quick enough pace for people going through the process. The biggest problem facing society is impatience, even more so in the fluid fast-paced world we've created. An oft-repeated phrase one hears in these sorts of discussions is that it's time to move on and people need to get over the past. If history has anything to teach us it's that it always take time. We're still in the process of excavating and examining the moral foundations of society and finally getting closer to what it was/is that provided the moral foundation for the church and it ain't pretty. I do however think it's quite salvageable. It'll take time, and likely more than the life span of most of us. Rome wasn't built in a day so it stands to reason it'll take more than a day to disassemble it. Edited May 25, 2022 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted May 25, 2022 Report Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) 35 minutes ago, eyeball said: Before we do however we need to be honest and admit that the church has spent spent centuries demeaning human beings around the planet and especially any who weren't white. I would argue the campaign is underway but just not at a quick enough pace for people going through the process. The biggest problem facing society is impatience, even more so in the fluid fast-paced world we've created. A oft-repeated phrase one hears in these sorts of discussions is that it's time to move on and people need to get over the past. If history has anything to teach us it's that it always take time. We're still in the process of excavating and examining the moral foundations of society and finally getting closer to what it was/is that provided the moral foundation for the church and it ain't pretty. I do however think it's quite salvageable. It'll take time, and likely more than the life span of most of us. Rome wasn't built in a day so it stands to reason it'll take more than a day to disassemble it. I don't harbour much love for "The Dirty Three" (Abrahamic religions). They've habitually used common sense moralities (E.G. Thou shalt not kill) and warped them and mingled into them grossly destructive lies. This has always forced me to question which Gawd was really behind these rather violent religions? I do not sense the Gawd of all creation behind this crap. The worshipping of a dead guy tacked to a crucifix is a very obvious tell-tale sign of that. (and the evil one giggles in delight). We don't need to excavate jack...eyeball. We know instinctively what is morally acceptable and what is not. We just need to stop trying to warp it to fit all situations. Bad is bad. That's it. If one commits murder, no matter the excuse, its bad. For most humans, killing another human takes a hell of a toll on a person's "soul". Its The Dirty Three that I believe need to be...excused form class. Sent home with a note. Expelled. Me must maintain the common morality of humans, which have been the domain of these religions. In other words... Toss the peanut shell and enjoy the peanut. Edited May 25, 2022 by Nationalist Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 25, 2022 Report Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Nationalist said: The worshipping of a dead guy tacked to a crucifix is a very obvious tell-tale sign of that. (and the evil one giggles in delight). Personally I think he was tacked up because he was a lefty. Quote We don't need to excavate jack...eyeball. We know instinctively what is morally acceptable and what is not. We just need to stop trying to warp it to fit all situations. Who is this we you're talking about? Individual human beings with short limited lifespans or longer living collective human institutions? It is these institutions that transport human values through time. Quote Bad is bad. That's it. If one commits murder, no matter the excuse, its bad. For most humans, killing another human takes a hell of a toll on a person's "soul". Its The Dirty Three that I believe need to be...excused form class. Sent home with a note. Expelled. It's not that simple. They cannot simply be excused and sent home when their precepts still form so much of the foundational basis of our society. Quote Me must maintain the common morality of humans, which have been the domain of these religions. In other words... Toss the peanut shell and enjoy the peanut. It's difficult when we're still buried up to necks in shells. Edited May 25, 2022 by eyeball 1 Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted May 25, 2022 Report Share Posted May 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, eyeball said: Personally I think he was tacked up because he was a lefty. Who is this we you're talking about? Individual human beings with short limited lifespans or longer living collective human institutions? It is these institutions that transport human values through time. It's not that simple. They cannot simply be excused and sent home when their precepts still form so much of the foundational basis of our society. It's difficult when we're still buried up to necks in shells. 1. LOL...indeed. 2. "We" the human race. Our instincts tell us what's right and what's wrong. We do not need institutions to remind us of what we all know, unless said institutions are free from corruption. To which I think...'cold day in hell'. 3. The Dirty Three have already exposed themselves as being corrupt. Good idea...bad execution (pun intended). This is our great institutions at work. Gawd has no need for institutions, nor does Mother earth. We are the combination of both. The religions are takin' an ass kickin' and will continue to dwindle. But we...again as in "we the human race"...must hold onto our moral imperatives. We don't need institutions for that. 4. Agreed. But the challenge is what makes life interesting. So have a peanut eyeball. Man, as a whole, is a bit of an idiot. But he's not suicidal. We will do the right thing...eventually. And its "hope" that men and women need now, more than ever. Never let "hope" die. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 25, 2022 Report Share Posted May 25, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nationalist said: 2. "We" the human race. Our instincts tell us what's right and what's wrong. We do not need institutions to remind us of what we all know, unless said institutions are free from corruption. To which I think...'cold day in hell'. I disagree. I think we have a lot of means to make hell a little hotter for our institutions but what's lacking is the will, much of it coming from people who like their institutions to remain olde and unchanging. Take my idea about delivering our institutions from temptation by attacking free speech outlawing in-camera lobbying for example. Kind of a play on the old in-the-peanut-we-trust, all-others-pay-cash idea. Quote 3. The Dirty Three have already exposed themselves as being corrupt. Good idea...bad execution (pun intended). This is our great institutions at work. Gawd has no need for institutions, nor does Mother earth. We are the combination of both. The religions are takin' an ass kickin' and will continue to dwindle. But we...again as in "we the human race"...must hold onto our moral imperatives. We don't need institutions for that. We still need institutions, like government for example. And I think we also need a lot more science to guide it in lieu of religion. Quote 4. Agreed. But the challenge is what makes life interesting. So have a peanut eyeball. Man, as a whole, is a bit of an idiot. But he's not suicidal. We will do the right thing...eventually. And its "hope" that men and women need now, more than ever. Never let "hope" die. That sounds encouraging. Careful though you just mind find yourself nailed to a cross for talking like that. FWIW I think humans can be real genius' as well. I mean take do unto others yadda yadda - its the very E=MC2 of how to get along in the world. Fucking brilliant. Edited May 25, 2022 by eyeball Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDog Posted May 26, 2022 Report Share Posted May 26, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted May 26, 2022 Report Share Posted May 26, 2022 8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: "If you gave a common criminal $100K in his pocket and were guaranteed that he would never crime again" Do you think there's something wrong with this as a principle ? Michael are you high when you wrote this... How does one guarantee not to turn to crime ever, do we threaten him his family with death, or lock him up for life... How long before the entire nation declares themselves a common criminal... and how deep are your pockets...not that deep. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted May 26, 2022 Report Share Posted May 26, 2022 5 hours ago, eyeball said: I disagree. I think we have a lot of means to make hell a little hotter for our institutions but what's lacking is the will, much of it coming from people who like their institutions to remain olde and unchanging. Take my idea about delivering our institutions from temptation by attacking free speech outlawing in-camera lobbying for example. Kind of a play on the old in-the-peanut-we-trust, all-others-pay-cash idea. We still need institutions, like government for example. And I think we also need a lot more science to guide it in lieu of religion. That sounds encouraging. Careful though you just mind find yourself nailed to a cross for talking like that. FWIW I think humans can be real genius' as well. I mean take do unto others yadda yadda - its the very E=MC2 of how to get along in the world. Fucking brilliant. So...we be hopeful pessimists. Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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