US Supreme Court strikes down Roe V. Wade

[Oksanna]

45 minutes ago, West said:

Maybe the right to your life should be left up to someone else? After all you are just a clump of cells aren't you?

I'm a clump of cells with feelings, and relationships, and ideas, and hopes, and memories. But all of that aside, if I get put into a mindless coma or something, and the only way to keep me alive is to strap someone to a table so that I can use their organs in a procedure that will make them suffer and possibly kill them, then sure, pull the plug on me.

[Oksanna]

1 minute ago, Army Guy said:

Did you read my post? Where did I mention that contraceptives should be legal or illegal...I thought you were a subject matter expert, I mean you are a female right, then you should know contraceptives are legal at least in Canada, thousands of different kinds, pick one, pick two, pick them all, just use them to prevent unwanted pregnancies or abortions. Why is that so difficult?

So wait wait, how do you draw the distinction between contraception and abortion?

[West]

2 minutes ago, Oksanna said:

I'm a clump of cells with feelings, and relationships, and ideas, and hopes, and memories. But all of that aside, if I get put into a mindless coma or something, and the only way to keep me alive is to strap someone to a table so that I can use their organs in a procedure that will make them suffer and possibly kill them, then sure, pull the plug on me.

That's why there are DNRs. Or if you want them to recessitate then you'd make that wish known. You are taking away that ability for the baby. Sad.

[Oksanna]

1 minute ago, West said:

That's why there are DNRs. Or if you want them to recessitate then you'd make that wish known. You are taking away that ability for the baby. Sad.

Noope. If I needed your kidney to survive, I can't force you to give it to me. And we eat pigs which are far more human than a blastocyst, so you are just desperately clinging to nonsense. This is not about babies.

We know it's not about babies because the instant they really do become people, you guys are happy to let them suffer and die. This is about a lot of things, but (like everything on the right involving 'children') the last thing it is about is the 'infants.'

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, Luz P. said:

Women across America will be impacted if the US Supreme Court repeals the landmark Roe v. Wade decision legalizing abortion. But some will struggle more than others. Women and girls of means living in the South and Midwest – where abortion is likely to be outlawed – will likely be able to travel to deep-blue states where the procedure will remain legal. That won’t be an option for women from lower socio-economic groups who can’t afford to travel across the country for the procedure. Women’s rights groups say that women of color will be most disadvantaged by the change. We take a look at the percent of annual abortions, by race, in the 13 states with trigger laws that would outlaw abortion if Roe v. Wade is overturned.

So the birthrate of coloured people and other minorities will rise. That should make southern rednecks happy.

[West]

34 minutes ago, Oksanna said:

Noope. If I needed your kidney to survive, I can't force you to give it to me. And we eat pigs which are far more human than a blastocyst, so you are just desperately clinging to nonsense. This is not about babies.

We know it's not about babies because the instant they really do become people, you guys are happy to let them suffer and die. This is about a lot of things, but (like everything on the right involving 'children') the last thing it is about is the 'infants.'

I'm happy to let a baby "suffer and die" ?? 

I adopted a child when she was 8. Grew up with a single mom who sure she struggled but thank goodness she chose not to abort. Sure sacrifices were involved. Part of life. Wouldn't trade it for the world.

Today she's in University and will be convocating in about 2ish year. Wicked smart and a good kid overall. Sure glad she was seen as more than a "clump of cells" to her bio mom.

Edited May 6, 2022 by West

[Army Guy]

5 minutes ago, Oksanna said:

So wait wait, how do you draw the distinction between contraception and abortion?

Not even sure where you are going but I'll follow you down the rabbit hole for a second.

Contraceptive prevents pregnancy, where the only thing that dies is sperm...

Abortion is ripping apart a human fetus piece by piece and then suck out with a vacuum. Did I get that right 

[Oksanna]

Just now, Army Guy said:

Not even sure where you are going but I'll follow you down the rabbit hole for a second.

Contraceptive prevents pregnancy, where the only thing that dies is sperm...

Abortion is ripping apart a human fetus piece by piece and then suck out with a vacuum. Did I get that right 

Nope. Most contraception just prevents fertilized cells from implanting. Almost all abortion is basically the same thing. The kind of abortion you are talking about almost never happens, and when it does, it probably means the fetus was going to die anyway, and the mother with it if they didn't perform the procedure.

This is why the real point of this for a lot of people isn't about a baby's life (most forced birthers couldn't care less about the actual child) it's about punishing women for sex. That's why roe v wade was really about contraception, and a couple's right to have sex without having children. And, Louisiana already has a law ready to go that will outlaw contraception.

[Oksanna]

11 minutes ago, West said:

I'm happy to let a baby "suffer and die" ?? 

I adopted a child when she was 8. Grew up with a single mom who sure she struggled but thank goodness she chose not to abort. Sure sacrifices were involved. Part of life. Wouldn't trade it for the world.

Today she's in University and will be convocating in about 2ish year. Wicked smart and a good kid overall. 

Yeah, lots of heroes, I get it, you care SO much. unless of course it's a baby that is born to a mother that isn't ready, that is in poverty, especially if they aren't white. You care SO much while it's a dozen cells, but the instant they need food, they need education, they need housing, or anything else, they are on their own. (unless they are trans, or gay, then suddenly you guys want them  to suffer and die)

[West]

Just now, Oksanna said:

Yeah, lots of heroes, I get it, you care SO much. unless of course it's a baby that is born to a mother that isn't ready, that is in poverty, especially if they aren't white. You care SO much while it's a dozen cells, but the instant they need food, they need education, they need housing, or anything else, they are on their own. (unless they are trans, or gay, then suddenly you guys want them  to suffer and die)

I'd dare you to come tell my daughter her mother should've aborted her.. 

[Oksanna]

Just now, West said:

I'd dare you to come tell my daughter her mother should've aborted her.. 

So, each one of them could have been fertilized by hundreds of millions of other sperm. You seem quite happy that THEY weren't born. At the moment anyone you know was fertilized, they made it impossible for hundreds of millions of people to be born. Where are your tears for THEM huh?

[West]

5 minutes ago, Oksanna said:

So, each one of them could have been fertilized by hundreds of millions of other sperm. You seem quite happy that THEY weren't born. At the moment anyone you know was fertilized, they made it impossible for hundreds of millions of people to be born. Where are your tears for THEM huh?

You are warped

[Oksanna]

1 minute ago, West said:

You are warped

Nope, you are warped. You just have been warped enough to think it's normal. And you don't understand biology and probability etc. So, the difference is that the way YOU are warped causes real harm in the world.

[Oksanna]

2 minutes ago, West said:

You are warped

Also, what you are saying is "you are right"

[West]

7 minutes ago, Oksanna said:

Nope, you are warped. You just have been warped enough to think it's normal. And you don't understand biology and probability etc. So, the difference is that the way YOU are warped causes real harm in the world.

Your analogy is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. 

There's such thing as a natural process (an elderly person dies of natural causes, a woman has her period) and unnatural death (shooting a lethal dose of a substance into someone to prematurely end life). 

Edited May 6, 2022 by West

[Oksanna]

5 minutes ago, West said:

Your analogy is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. 

There's such thing as a natural process (an elderly person dies of natural causes, a woman has her period) and unnatural death (shooting a lethal dose of a substance into someone to prematurely end life). 

No, there isn't. My analogy is ridiculous because it is using the same logic as you are.

[Oksanna]

5 minutes ago, West said:

Your analogy is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. 

There's such thing as a natural process (an elderly person dies of natural causes, a woman has her period) and unnatural death (shooting a lethal dose of a substance into someone to prematurely end life). 

Also, there's even a word for this. It's called the 'naturalistic fallacy'

[West]

1 minute ago, Oksanna said:

Also, there's even a word for this. It's called the 'naturalistic fallacy'

Who's saying death is good? 

[West]

4 minutes ago, Oksanna said:

No, there isn't. My analogy is ridiculous because it is using the same logic as you are.

No its not at all. You are saying that someone's natural death (I.e. an elderly person passing away of natural causes) would be the same as if someone took a sledgehammer to them and killed them that way.

Sure same outcome... death.. but hardly the same thing. Unless you are advocating for the wild wild west where anything goes because we are all going to die anyway? 

Edited May 6, 2022 by West

[Oksanna]

1 minute ago, West said:

Who's saying death is good? 

You don't even have a good definition of death.

[West]

4 minutes ago, Oksanna said:

You don't even have a good definition of death.

You don't even have a good definition of life...

[Army Guy]

4 minutes ago, Oksanna said:

Nope. Most contraception just prevents fertilized cells from implanting. Almost all abortion is basically the same thing. The kind of abortion you are talking about almost never happens, and when it does, it probably means the fetus was going to die anyway, and the mother with it if they didn't perform the procedure.

This is why the real point of this for a lot of people isn't about a baby's life (most forced birthers couldn't care less about the actual child) it's about punishing women for sex. That's why roe v wade was really about contraception, and a couple's right to have sex without having children. And, Louisiana already has a law ready to go that will outlaw contraception.

Here in Canada contraception is not outlawed, there are thousands of brands to choose from, and some are free... go figure available at all pharmacies or drug stores and available in most bars' bathrooms...another go figure.

Not according to the Canadian medical community, they have explained it much differently. although most abortions happen in the first 8 weeks, more than 4000 slightly fewer happen in the 9 to 12 or second trimester just slightly under 4000, which means it has progressed into a fetus, able to feel pain and react to music. after 9 to 12 weeks the fetus is ripped apart piece by piece and sucked out by vacuum ask someone that performs abortions, the internet is full of detailed explanations on how this is performed...

Abortion Statistics in Canada (arcc-cdac.ca)

Medical abortion in Canada: behind the times - PMC (nih.gov)

It also said that 3 % or just over 2850 of all abortions are done after 21 weeks, medical tech has evolved to keep babies alive at this stage...

 

[Oksanna]

3 minutes ago, West said:

No its not at all. You are saying that someone's natural death (I.e. an elderly person passing away of natural causes) would be the same as if someone took a sledgehammer to them and killed them that way.

Sure same outcome... death.. but hardly the same thing. Unless you are advocating for the wild wild west where anything goes because we are all going to die anyway? 

What are 'natural causes?' I'd say that all things being equal, I'd rather take a sledge hammer than a slow death from cancer or something. None of that matters. The problem with your naturalistic fallacy is that these little clumps of cells don't become humans 'naturally.' It requires the intervention of a human.

[Oksanna]

5 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Here in Canada contraception is not outlawed, there are thousands of brands to choose from, and some are free... go figure available at all pharmacies or drug stores and available in most bars' bathrooms...another go figure.

Not according to the Canadian medical community, they have explained it much differently. although most abortions happen in the first 8 weeks, more than 4000 slightly fewer happen in the 9 to 12 or second trimester just slightly under 4000, which means it has progressed into a fetus, able to feel pain and react to music. after 9 to 12 weeks the fetus is ripped apart piece by piece and sucked out by vacuum ask someone that performs abortions, the internet is full of detailed explanations on how this is performed...

Abortion Statistics in Canada (arcc-cdac.ca)

Medical abortion in Canada: behind the times - PMC (nih.gov)

It also said that 3 % or just over 2850 of all abortions are done after 21 weeks, medical tech has evolved to keep babies alive at this stage...

 

That is interesting that it is such a high rate in canada. I'm sure that the US will see much more of those since they are mostly a result of lack of, or barriers to care. But, a cow can absolutely feel pain. And probably if an abortion is performed late-term, it's because regardless of technology, the fetus would not survive due to some kind of abnormality, or the mother's life is at risk. None of that really matters to forced birth advocates since often times, the suffering is the point.

[Oksanna]

17 minutes ago, West said:

You don't even have a good definition of life...

Here's another problem with your little story. Plenty of women who have an abortion when they aren't ready go on to have children later when they are ready. If abortion wasn't an option, they wouldn't have had their later children. So, do you want to tell those children they shouldn't exist?