Evil Russian Empire invades defenseless Ukraine.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Dougie93 said:

I view RS-24 Yars to be in the same family, basically an upgraded Topol-M

Yars is the MIRV version, I believe.

[Dougie93]

one of their most fearsome weapons is a theater weapon

P-700 Granit from Tu-22M3 Backfire-C, Oscar II & Kirov class

supersonic over the horizon cruise missile, delivers a 500kt warhead

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Yars is the MIRV version, I believe.

exactly

Yars is actually the SS-27 Mod II Sickle B

the MIRV'd variant of Topol-M

[Dougie93]

P-800 Oniks is like the mini version of P-700 Granit

also a supersonic over the horizon cruise missile

delivers a 100kt warhead, but they have many more of them

[Dougie93]

should be pointed out that the RSM-54 Sineva SLBM from DELTA IV

is the only live fire tested SSBN / SLBM system in history

only once has anyone actually tested their ballistic missile submarine under wartime conditions

Operation Behemoth 2, 6 August 1991

the Project 667BDRM type DELTA IV SSBN K-84 Ekaterinburg

fired all 16 RSM-54 Sineva's in a single salvo

nobody else has ever done it

 

[Dougie93]

there is another innovation in play on the American side

the US Navy SSBN-734 USS Tennessee has had its UGM-133A Trident II SLBM's re roled

instead of the usual W-76 100kt countervalue warheads

the Trident II's on the USS Tennessee have been armed with tactical nuclear warheads now

W76-2 10 kiloton yield

so these are tactical warheads fired from a SSBN against targets in theater for a counterforce

the SLBMs are launched on what is called a "depressed trajectory"

so rather flying high and long range over the pole

they fly low and fast to  targets in theater

that's 240 warheads on 24 Trident II's

[CITIZEN_2015]

The West should start massive and rapid delivery of arms to Ukraine's army. Germany has increased its military budget by 100 bullion. Maybe it should have assigned a part to arm Ukraine. Nato is delivering about one billion dollar of arms to Ukraine. May be it should be 10 to 100 times more to be used by Ukraine's army to destroy Russian military.

[Dougie93]

9 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

The West should start massive and rapid delivery of arms to Ukraine's army.

that will be World War Three

NATO knows

which is why they are balking at the prospect so far

[Dougie93]

you push a massively thermonuclear armed fully militarized state back up against a wall

you are really asking for your children to burn in a firestorm then

[CITIZEN_2015]

A military help as a result of request by a sovereign country is not same as direct military intervention. I am not saying Nato army must attack invading Russian military but just deliver arms to a sovereign country. US sells arms to many countries to be used if they are invaded.

[Dougie93]

all these sanctions, embargoes & delivery of weapons to proxies

these are act of war by the Hague Convention

there is a threshold where the Russians will be forced to relaliate

and we are approaching that threshold at breathtaking pace

there is no way to defeat them by force, that is simply the path to thermonuclear Armageddon

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

A military help as a result of request by a sovereign country is not same as direct military intervention. I am not saying Nato army must attack invading Russian military but just deliver arms to a sovereign country. US sells arms to many countries to be used if they are invaded.

it's an act of war by the Hague Convention, to arm combatants in a declared war,  which this is

at some point the Russians will be forced to retaliate

they could send their submarines, cut the undersea cables which carry the internet

mine the choke points of the SLOC's to bring global trade to a halt

just for an opening move

you are flirting with the brink of World War Three on the high seas, Pandora's Box

Edited February 28, 2022 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

the Military Maritime Fleet of the Russian Federation has not even entered the fray yet

if you are eager for all out war with the Russians

you must be delusional

because just the widespread chaos & panic which would ensue

soon as torpedoes start sinking ships

is going to massively impact your lives on the spot

starting with fiscal & economic crisis & shortages like we have not seen, ever

[Dougie93]

merchant mariners would not sail in the face of Russian torpedo smart mines in the SLOCs

global shipping would head to the nearest port, and park

that alone would be the biggest crisis we have ever faced

and that would just be day one

[Dougie93]

NATO plans to kick the Russians out of the SWIFT global banking system ?

the internet based system which moves money around ?

if the Russians send their special mission submarines to cut the undersea cables which carry the internet ?

we would all be kicked out of the SWIFT banking system then, as it would cease to function

[Dougie93]

we are already loaded down with exponential debt

four dollars of debt for every dollar of growth in the global markets

upon shots fired on the high seas between Russia and NATO ?

the economy is going to spiral into a black hole

you will be homeless in the street, another Great Depression,  long before it gets to nuclear war

[Dougie93]

the city of Chernahiv

population 285,000

just across the border from Belarus

on a main road to Kiev

being pounded right now by Russian artillery

 

[Aristides]

Montreux Convention allows Turkey alone to block the Dardanelles in the event of a war, including if its own security is threatened. With Vlad waving nukes around, maybe that case could be made.

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Aristides said:

Montreux Convention allows Turkey alone to block the Dardanelles in the event of a war, including if its own security is threatened. With Vlad waving nukes around, maybe that case could be made.

Turkey is an even more repressive regime than Russia which also launches genocidal wars of aggression

I decline to support any actions using one totalitarian regime to try to leverage another

there is no moral high ground there, and it has serious potential for catastrophic blowback

attempts by NATO to blockade Russia are just more acts of war escalating towards a war with Russia

Edited March 1, 2022 by Dougie93

[Aristides]

4 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

Turkey is an even more repressive regime than Russia which also launches genocidal wars of aggression

I decline to support any actions using one totalitarian regime to try to leverage another

there is no moral high ground there, and it has serious potential for catastrophic blowback

attempts by NATO to blockade Russia are just more acts of war escalating towards a war with Russia

Vlad started this.

[Dougie93]

8 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Vlad started this.

if you want to rush off to war, why don't you just go fight in Ukraine ?

they're taking foreign volunteers with no military experience required

 

[Dougie93]

Edited March 1, 2022 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

it's a vicious war

there are no good go's on this operation

look at how jumpy these Russian conscripts are

this is not limited intervention

this is total war for national survival

much higher intensity and pace than any sort of COIN

this is maneuver warfare in the classical sense

frightening

 

[DogOnPorch]

All warfare is deception...said someone. We're seeing in this affair for sure. The citizen-taken videos are really the only ones you can see some of the reality. Ghosts are everywhere else it seems. 

[Dougie93]

so, the idea & CIA narrative that these Russian ground troops

are going to mutiny against their chain of command and/or surrender en masse ?

I would say not

under these conditions they would just be executed for desertion anyways

surrendering to the enraged Ukrainians is just as perilous

so at this point, as a soldier,

you really have no choice but to fight for your life with everything you got

but this is actually Russian doctrine

this is how it has always worked in the Russian army, this is the Russian army functioning as it is supposed to

from the Imperial, through the Soviet, into the Post Soviet era

this is the conscript army of the Czars, this is how they fight

again, the arm of decision is artillery ; grand battery

and the operational method is to overwhelm with mass; quantity over quality

when evaluating their operations, the key is to not project American military doctrine onto them

life is cheap, all troops are expendable cannon fodder down range, drive them forward at gunpoint as necessary

it's not about the tanks, all armored vehicles are cheaply massed produced, expendable downrange

they don't care about collateral damage, they don't care about killing civilians, civilians are expendable downrange

ambushes happen, the Russians don't try to avoid them, they just keep coming with more mass

so they use IFR : I follow roads, they just drive right down the roads, speed is emphasized over survival

they move the resources to whoever is doing well, take resources from whoever is failing, go with the winners

they drive in Napoleonic columns until they encircle you

then they set up their Napoleonic Grand Battery for a siege

this is all by design

they are not the US Army

so you can't predict that they are losing the war, based on them following Russian doctrine instead of American

this is the sort of chaos that all Russian operations incite in any war they fight

they win some, they lose them, but they have won a few using this doctrine, including World War Two