Michael Hardner Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: even by that math percentage of population full vaccinated is 84.4% and percentage of covid cases of the fully vaccinated is 83.7% meaning that the vaccinated are still responsible for a helluva lot of covid spread Sure, I am not disputing that the numbers look bad for fully vaccinated. But I'm sure you can appreciate that whoever assembled the source material now should be subject to additional level of quality checking. As such, I can't accept that the numbers were done correctly. Hence my request for the source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Sure, I am not disputing that the numbers look bad for fully vaccinated. But I'm sure you can appreciate that whoever assembled the source material now should be subject to additional level of quality checking. As such, I can't accept that the numbers were done correctly. Hence my request for the source. go look at other sources on Israeli numbers, they also don't paint a good picture on vaccinations reducing the spread much at all this is not the only source that clearly shows the vaccinated are still contracting the disease and spreading it therefore singling out the unvaccinated as the main party to blame with this "pandemic of the unvaccinated" crap is obvious propaganda to sell big government power grabs that are totally unnecessary and the juice clearly isn't worth the squeeze Edited September 15, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 I get it, Mike. You read the numbers for Ontario for a couple of weeks. The numbers just don't Jive with those in Israel. So you're sure something is wrong with the numbers from Israel. You just don't know what. But it isn't just Israel. It's the UK, Iceland, Gibraltar, Taiwan. It's regions that have been dealing with the variant longer and have been able to get a high percentage of their population vaccinated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: I get it, Mike. You read the numbers for Ontario for a couple of weeks. The numbers just don't Jive with those in Israel. So you're sure something is wrong with the numbers from Israel. You just don't know what. But it isn't just Israel. It's the UK, Iceland, Gibraltar, Taiwan. It's regions that have been dealing with the variant longer and have been able to get a high percentage of their population vaccinated. nailed it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: 1. go look at other sources on Israeli numbers, they also don't paint a good picture on vaccinations reducing the spread much at all 2. this is not the only source that clearly shows the vaccinated are still contracting the disease and spreading it 3. therefore singly out the unvaccinated as solely responsible with this "pandemic of the unvaccinated" crap is obvious propaganda to sell big government power grabs 1. I just spent the time to look at the links provided. The first one is in Hebrew and seems to take you to a main page. The second one takes you to another Hebrew page and the only English on it is "404 Not Found" Here I typed it:https://data.gov.il/dataset/covid-19/source/9b623a64-f17df-4d0c-9f57-09bd99a88880 So I think you did the bare minimum in providing a source, in that you took a screenshot of some page that did something with the numbers and made errors, and then wouldn't tell us what that page was. And that erroneous page had links which are not in English and don't exist. 2. I am interested - please provide them. 3. There is no therefore until you provide 1 & 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said: 1. I get it, Mike. You read the numbers for Ontario for a couple of weeks. The numbers just don't Jive with those in Israel. So you're sure something is wrong with the numbers from Israel. You just don't know what. 2. But it isn't just Israel. It's the UK, Iceland, Gibraltar, Taiwan. It's regions that have been dealing with the variant longer and have been able to get a high percentage of their population vaccinated. 1. No - I started into it and got a math error and was like ... hm ? What's that ? 2. Ok - give me something to chew on. I'm interested and have no dog in the fight that is "are vaccines effective". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. I just spent the time to look at the links provided. The first one is in Hebrew and seems to take you to a main page. The second one takes you to another Hebrew page and the only English on it is "404 Not Found" Here I typed it:https://data.gov.il/dataset/covid-19/source/9b623a64-f17df-4d0c-9f57-09bd99a88880 So I think you did the bare minimum in providing a source, in that you took a screenshot of some page that did something with the numbers and made errors, and then wouldn't tell us what that page was. And that erroneous page had links which are not in English and don't exist. 2. I am interested - please provide them. 3. There is no therefore until you provide 1 & 2. do your own homework you playing ostrich to ignore data that doesn't fit your narrative does not dismiss 3. if you are really as genuinely curious about the subject as you claim and are not just pretending to be then you can look it up yourself we already pointed you in the right direction about what nations numbers to look at if that digging leads you to a different conclusion than us, feel free to share it Edited September 15, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) I guess is where all the cool discussions on COVID are. My bad. I'll post this for good measure. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-instagram-post-missing-context-about-israeli-study-on-covid-19-natural-immunity/ Quote The testing aspect was perhaps “the biggest limitation of the study,” according to Natalie Dean, an Emory University biostatistician, who was quoted in an Aug. 26 Science article about the study. “That means, she says, that comparisons could be confounded if, for example, previously infected people who developed mild symptoms were less likely to get tested than vaccinated people, perhaps because they think they are immune,” Science reported. “Lastly,” the authors of the Israeli study wrote, “although we controlled for age, sex, and region of residence, our results might be affected by differences between the groups in terms of health behaviors (such as social distancing and mask wearing), a possible confounder that was not assessed.” Edited September 15, 2021 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 Also, should JT win re-election. It will be the fault of these morons who protest outside of Hospitals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, Boges said: I guess is where all the cool discussions on COVID are. My bad. I'll post this for good measure. https://www.factcheck.org/2021/09/scicheck-instagram-post-missing-context-about-israeli-study-on-covid-19-natural-immunity/ of course the data isn't perfect that does not mean that this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated though the data shows that to be flat out a lie despite it's imperfections Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Boges said: Also, should JT win re-election. It will be the fault of these morons who protest outside of Hospitals. no it will be the fault of the people who vote for him not those who don't your logic is ass backwards also as far as protests go, it's the ones following Trudeau around helping him the most not these hospital protests, many of which were organized by the frontline health care workers that were heroes until some of them opposed government mandated segregation based on medical status, and they are now are being thrown under the bus with the "deplorables" Edited September 15, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. No - I started into it and got a math error and was like ... hm ? What's that ? 2. Ok - give me something to chew on. I'm interested and have no dog in the fight that is "are vaccines effective". Really? Then you may be interested in this one. It's more recent than the one you're pecking at. It's from the journal Science. As you no doubt know, Science, is generally considered the benchmark for credibility in the field of science: " “Now is a critical time,” Israeli Minister of Health Nitzan Horowitz said as the 56-year-old got a COVID-19 booster shot on 13 August, the day his country became the first nation to offer a third dose of vaccine to people as young as age 50. “We’re in a race against the pandemic.” His message was meant for his fellow Israelis, but it is a warning to the world. Israel has among the world’s highest levels of vaccination for COVID-19, with 78% of those 12 and older fully vaccinated, the vast majority with the Pfizer vaccine. Yet the country is now logging one of the world’s highest infection rates, with nearly 650 new cases daily per million people. More than half are in fully vaccinated people, underscoring the extraordinary transmissibility of the Delta variant and stoking concerns that the benefits of vaccination ebb over time." https://www.science.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta Edited September 15, 2021 by Infidel Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: of course the data isn't perfect that does not mean that this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated though the data shows that to be flat out a lie despite it's imperfections The unvaccinated are most fuelling the most negative outcomes regarding COVID-19, in Canada anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Boges said: The unvaccinated are most fuelling the most negative outcomes regarding COVID-19, in Canada anyway. nope they are the one's hardest hit there are no numbers that show they are the only ones transmitting it the unvaccinated who get sick can easily catch it from someone who is vaccinated the freedoms of the unvaccinated are putting the health of the vaccinated at risk, that is far less true than vice versa but it's a dumb reason to infringe on people's rights either way thing is, it's mostly the vaccinated are pushing for taking the rights away though Edited September 15, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) As the variants take over you will see the vaccinated vs unvaccinated case numbers equal out if what is happening in other parts of the world is any indication and the Canadian numbers from provinces like Ontario are not being manipulated. Edited September 15, 2021 by Infidel Dog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: nope they are the one's hardest hit there are no numbers that show they are the only ones transmitting it the unvaccinated who get sick can easily catch it from someone who is vaccinated The goal is an endemic virus that's not worse than the common cold. So yeah, transmission does happen. But severe outcomes are a lot less likely. This is why Vaccine passports are necessary in places where masking and distancing are impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Infidel Dog said: As the variants take over you will see the vaccinated vs unvaccinated case numbers equal out if what is happening in other parts of the world is any indication and the Canadian numbers from provinces like Ontario are not being manipulated. It's funny that you use cases as evidence of waning immunity when it supports your opinion. But the true metric of success or failure of the vaccine is the instances of severe COVID. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 Just to be clear. I'll support Boosters for vulnerable population. But the SCIENCE has not provided any evidence that boosters are required for an otherwise healthy person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Boges said: The goal is an endemic virus that's not worse than the common cold. So yeah, transmission does happen. But severe outcomes are a lot less likely. This is why Vaccine passports are necessary in places where masking and distancing are impossible. government mandated vaccine passports are not effective in doing that as even the highest vaccinated nations in the world show, that high vaccination rates doesn't even accomplish that if private business wants to implement these passports voluntarily that is their decision to make not the governments Edited September 15, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 Just now, Boges said: Just to be clear. I'll support Boosters for vulnerable population. But the SCIENCE has not provided any evidence that boosters are required for an otherwise healthy person. you can be for something and not for it being mandatory you can be against something and not for it being banned smart people understand this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: government mandated vaccine passports are not effective in doing that as even the highest vaccinated nations in the world show if private business wants to implement these passports voluntarily that is their decision to make not the governments Without the government to back them, it's not worth the effort. Especially with Anti-Vaxxers that behave very badly in public. The Ontario passport is very narrowly applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: you can be for something and not for it being mandatory you can be against something and not for it being banned smart people understand this Again, nothing is "mandatory" regarding vaccine. But refusing has some consequences. As you say, if a business wants its employees and/or patrons to all be vaccinated, why can't they decide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 Vaccine passports and mandates are being allowed by the gullibles because they are being told this new wave of variants are what the corporate media and their political cohorts are calling "a pandemic of the unvaccinated." That's a lie. The idea this segregation of the unvaccinated has no similarities to apartheid, Jim crow, papers please or the yellow arm band is also a lie. It may not be the equivalent of say herding the Japanese into camps during WW II yet, but it's the same principle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 21 hours ago, canadian.rocky said: Let's look at reality: Vaccinated: Can still transmit COVID19, although at a much lower rate. Due to being vaccinated, the symptoms are much lower, if they get COVID19, and that reduces the chance of going to the hospital and occupy nurses and doctor's time, cost the tax payers money and take away beds from sick people who have no control over being sick. Unvaccinated: Can transmit COVID19 at a higher rate than those who are vaccinated Will occupy hospitals 90% more than vaccinated people Will cost taxpayers money Will unnecessarily take away beds and services for those who need to be treated Will put doctors and nurses under stress It appears as though you are quite the fan of watching those lying and fake Canadian pro globalist communist propaganda news outlets like CTV, CBC and Glo'Bull". Why don't any of those bought off and paid for leftist lieberal media outlets that I mentioned above ever have anyone on their news networks and be interviewed who would like to give the other side of the covid 1984 story? Those news outlets mentioned above never attend any real anti-covid demonstrations against all of those covid restrictions except to maybe go and attend one or two of them where the media will try and report the demonstrators as a bunch of people who belong to some right wingers group and are all anti-vaxers, and whom the lying media will try to portray and make them all look bad on the evening propaganda news. They will try to inject negativism in their lying reporting. We the non vaccinated are not anti-vax. We just do not want to be vaxxed with an experimental vaccine that has not been proven to be safe as of yet. With so many vaccinated people getting sick after they have taken these many covid vaccines jabs tells me that those vaccines are not working. Rumor has it that they are not like your normal vaccines. They are experimental gene therapy vaccines full of spike proteins which have been responsible for many people developing blood clots and young adults with heart disease. Look comrade, if you like to do as you are told by your lying politicians and your lying media then go for it, make your day, punk. Take all the jabs that you want to take, even those booster shots coming your way soon. It is your body to use and abuse as you please. But leave my f'n body out of your little propaganda covid bull chit madness that it is the non vaccinated ones that are the ones spreading covid. You vaccinated ones are also doing the same thing, comrade. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted September 15, 2021 Report Share Posted September 15, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Boges said: Without the government to back them, it's not worth the effort. Especially with Anti-Vaxxers that behave very badly in public. The Ontario passport is very narrowly applied. but it isn't worth it even with government backing passports aren't going end the pandemic anymore than the vaccines themselves the juice of lower covid deaths and cases are not worth the squeeze of taking away freedoms everyone should be allowed to make their own choices on this without government putting it's thumb on the scales to bully people into violating their own conscience with little tangible benefit and a ton of downside Edited September 15, 2021 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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