Enough is enough. Ban protests outside hospitals.

[Boges]

15 hours ago, myata said:

So delta variant is twice more contagious among non vaccinated in Ontario (if numbers to be trusted) than in the studies in the US.

A major discovery? A great scientific breakthrough? A Nobel perhaps? How's nobody noticed? Experts, the world should know!

My theory is that many vaccinated don't bother get tested, because they don't even know they're infected. 

Studies have also indicated that even though vaccinated people can carry and transmit the virus, they're contagious for much less time. 

[Infidel Dog]

If you click that link you'll see the problems these poor nurses are having with authority. Doctors don't want to listen. Orders are coming down from above, it seems.

[Infidel Dog]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

Studies have also indicated that even though vaccinated people can carry and transmit the virus, they're contagious for much less time. 

Actually it's A study, isn't it? And I don't remember any clear delineation of what you're calling "much less time."

And come to think of it, where  and when was this study? I'm hearing they're not testing for the Delta variant in some places.

[Boges]

Just now, Infidel Dog said:

Actually it's A study, isn't it? And I don't remember any clear delineation of what you're calling "much less time."

And come to think of it, where  and when was this study? I'm hearing they're not testing for the Delta variant in some places.

Ya'll seem to cling to A study out of Israel to claim that previously infected should be exempt from vaccination. 

It's irrelevant because the chance of severe sickness is greatly diminished. So the fact that vaccinated can transmit the disease is only relevant to the unvaccinated. 

 

[Infidel Dog]

No. You are incorrect. Multiple studies and collections of Data are available. 

I imagine you'll be wanting me to prove that. 

Hang on.

[Infidel Dog]

But first, what is it you'll want? Multiple studies and data from Israel showing the vaccinated are a problem or multiple studies and data in general showing the previously infected have much greater immunity than the vaccinated?

Edited September 16, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Boges]

Just now, Infidel Dog said:

But first, what is it you'll want? Multiple studies and data from Israel showing the vaccinated are a problem or multiple studies and data in general showing the previously infected have far much greater immunity than the vaccinated?

What other studies show that previous infection have greater immunity than vaccination. 

Because vaccinated are only really a problem to the unvaccinated. 

[Infidel Dog]

1 minute ago, Boges said:

What other studies show that previous infection have greater immunity than vaccination. 

Hang on...

[Infidel Dog]

OK, I'm going through my bookmarks but as I am, I'm noticing other stuff. This might interest you. Check out the 2 graphs on these pages.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-cases

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths

India was where they first noticed the Delta Variant, wasn't it?

Isn't it amazing how much of a nosedive that graph makes for India since that discovery?

I'm almost certain I read somewhere that India endorses therapeutics.

[Infidel Dog]

Found one, pretty much immediately, but damn there's a paygate so this is all I could see:

Quote

The effectiveness of widely used COVID-19 vaccines against the Delta strain becomes weaker within three months of inoculation, said a study from Oxford University, which also said that two doses of the vaccine provided as much protection as “having had COVID-19

Major Study: COVID-19 Vaccines Less Effective Against Delta, as Good as ‘Natural Infection’

Should be OK though. I'm pretty sure I have more on that Oxford study somewhere.

[Yzermandius19]

20 minutes ago, Boges said:

What other studies show that previous infection have greater immunity than vaccination. 

Because vaccinated are only really a problem to the unvaccinated. 

the whole rationale for these mandatory vaccine passports is that the unvaccinated are putting the vaccinated at risk and need to be segregated from them to keep them safe

yet the opposite is true, but the unvaccinated have the decency to not try and shut the vaccinated out of society, just because they at higher risk of hospitalization by being around the vaccinated

unlike the pro-vaccine mandate clowns, who don't have the decency to live and let live

Edited September 16, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Boges]

1 minute ago, Infidel Dog said:

Found one, pretty much immediately, but damn there's a paygate so this is all I could see:

Major Study: COVID-19 Vaccines Less Effective Against Delta, as Good as ‘Natural Infection’

Should be OK though. I'm pretty sure I have more on that Oxford study somewhere.

Yeah Paywall. 

Again, no one is questioning that there is a level of immunity gained from previous infection. 

But I'm unconvinced it's better than a vaccine. And even if it was, the vaccine gives a further layer of protection. 

It's weird how the Anti-Vax crowd embraces so many treatment options while the vaccine is the only true medical prophylactic.

Why are we not concerned about the Long term effects of Regenerion? 

[Boges]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the whole rationale for these mandatory vaccine passports is that the unvaccinated are putting the vaccinated at risk and need to be segregated

yet the opposite is true, but the unvaccinated have the decency to not try and shut the vaccinated out of society, just because they at higher risk of hospitalization by being around the vaccinated

That's an anti-vax talking point. Though when you have ineligible children, it gets more complicated. 

The unvaxed should be "segregated" in environments where transmission is likely because they stand a greater chance of a severe outcome. 

In Ontario it's only being applied to areas where masking is difficult and people gather, most indoors. These are activities that were illegal earlier this year due to the Lockdown. 

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

That's an anti-vax talking point. Though when you have ineligible children, it gets more complicated. 

The unvaxed should be "segregated" in environments where transmission is likely because they stand a greater chance of a severe outcome. 

In Ontario it's only being applied to areas where masking is difficult and people gather, most indoors. These are activities that were illegal earlier this year due to the Lockdown. 

yet many of the places they are banned from aren't high transmission places

these mandates are as anti-science as it gets

Edited September 16, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Boges]

1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said:

yet many of the places they are banned from aren't high transmission places

Such as? 

[Infidel Dog]

I'm finding all kinds of data showing the effectiveness of the vaccine diminishes over time, That might explain why cases skyrocket over time in places like Israel or the UK where they've been dealing with the variant for a longer period.

Over the long haul that would balance out your idea that the vaccinated are contagious for a shorter period of time, even if you're right.

https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-vaccine-data-cdc-biden-d6f295f2-5205-4c44-bdf3-f7eab66b4873.html

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

Such as? 

bars, restaurants and gyms

very little transmission occurs on these venues

also there is no exemption for those who had the disease and are less likely to spread the disease than the vaccinated who never contracted it

very anti-science

Edited September 16, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[myata]

48 minutes ago, Boges said:

My theory is that many vaccinated don't bother get tested, because they don't even know they're infected.

Not a plausible theory as the results were for reported cases. In the US non vaccinated is 4.6 times more likely to be infected, while in Canada, over 10. Let's try again)

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

bars and restaurants

very little transmission occurs on these venues

I know CDC blargh!!!!

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/organizations/business-employers/bars-restaurants.html

Quote

 

Higher Risk: On-site dining with indoor seating capacity reduced to allow tables to be spaced at least 6 feet apart. And/or on-site dining with outdoor seating, but tables not spaced at least six feet apart.

Highest Risk: On-site dining with indoor seating. Seating capacity not reduced and tables not spaced at least 6 feet apart.

COVID-19 is mostly spread when people are physically near (within 6 feet) a person with

COVID-19 or have direct contact with that person. When people with COVID-19 cough, sneeze, sing, talk, or breathe, they produce respiratory droplets. Infections occur mainly through exposure to respiratory droplets when a person is in close contact with someone who has COVID-19.

There is evidence that under certain conditions, people with COVID-19 seem to have infected others who were more than 6 feet away. This is called airborne transmission. These transmissions occurred within enclosed spaces that had inadequate ventilation. Available data indicate that it is much more common for the virus that causes COVID-19 to spread through close contact with a person who has COVID-19 than through airborne transmission.

 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Boges

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

I know CDC blargh!!!!

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/organizations/business-employers/bars-restaurants.html

 

the CDC is full of shit

the actual data shows very little transmission in these venues

the theory doesn't match the data, yet they still cling to theory

Edited September 16, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Infidel Dog]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

That's an anti-vax talking point.

The way you use the term "anti-vax" to delegitimize a legitimate point is a "jab-Nazis" talking point.

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the CDC is full of shit

the actual data shows very little transmission in these venues

the theory doesn't match the data, yet they still cling to theory

And you have this data on hand, I'm sure. 

[Boges]

5 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

The way you use the term "anti-vax" to delegitimize a legitimate point is a "jab-Nazis" talking point.

I've observed that people raging against vaccine passports use this point that vaccinated can still get infected. Tucker has used it. 

It's irrelevant because the goal of the vaccine, first and foremost is to reduce severe illness. If your immune system tackles it, then who cares? 

The more that happens, the closer we come to an endemic disease. 

Edited September 16, 2021 by Boges

[Infidel Dog]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

I've observed that people raging against vaccine passports use this point that vaccinated can still get infected. Tucker has used it. 

It's irrelevant because the goal of the vaccine, first and foremost is to reduce severe illness. If your immune system tackles it, then who cares? 

The more that happens, the closer we come to an endemic disease. 

People observe the fact that the vaccinated can be infected equally by the variant to the unvaccinated because it is a fact. There are a few of the intentionally ignorant who want to tell us this is not nor never can be true in Ontario but they are incorrect.

This is relevant because if you really believe you are protected from infection or serious harm by the vaccine why do you want to punish those who don't want the vaccine?

That should be obvious. Why isn't it? Why must we keep repeating it?

[Yzermandius19]

9 minutes ago, Boges said:

And you have this data on hand, I'm sure. 

high risk places of transmission are hospitals, long term care facilities and retirement homes

not schools, not bars, not restaurants, not gyms