Pandemic will likely get worse in the fall and winter but no more lockdowns.

[BubberMiley]

27 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Why are healthy children and young adults getting experimental vaccines with dangerous side-effects when we know that covid doesn't affect them? 

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse.

[WestCanMan]

26 minutes ago, Argus said:

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2021/08/anti-vaxxer-demands-you-produce-a-single-study-showing-mrna-vaccines-are-safe-no-not-that-one/

You know that's satire, right?

You know that healthy people have gotten extremely ill and even died from the vaccines, right?

Here's an actual clinical study from The Lancet, one of the country's most respected medical journals, showing how deadly and useless HCQ is: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext 

Why does it say "RETRACTED" all over it? 

It fits perfectly with the Dems' narrative, and it funnels people towards the "Vaxx is the only way!" narrative. How can Nancy's own 'science' be wrong? Fact is, the Lancet was caught lying. 'Science' was caught lying.

Why do left-wing media outlets quote misleading stats like: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/07/01/995-of-people-killed-by-covid-in-last-6-months-were-unvaccinated-data-suggests/?sh=7f51a95e493d I don't blame you if you dan't want to read a left-wing rag - Cole's Notes - it says "99.5% of people who died from covid in the last 6 months were unvaccinated".

News flash, during that time frame almost no one was vaccinated. The first people to be vaccinated a second time got their second shot at the end of the second month of that time span. People aren't considered to be 'vaccinated' until a small amount of time has passed after their second dose. People who were already infected and dying with covid couldn't be vaccinated, and their deaths are included in that time frame. It's safe to say that science would have predicted that 99.5% of the people who died of covid in the six months ending in May 2021 were unvaxxed, bacause almost no one was vaxxed and then had enough time to get covid and die in that time frame. 

And Canada's vaxx stats are unclear. A lot of people who were 'vaxxed twice' were vaxxed with two different meds, so they can be counted in either the vaxxed or unvaxxed category depending on how you want to skew your findings (they don't even get 'vaccine passport' status). Almsot no one was vaxxed with the correct time frame between doses, so again, you can include them in the vaxxed or unvaxxed category if it suits your fancy. Canada's stats are bunk. 

So why do we keep getting lied to about covid treatments and the efficacy and side-effects of the vaxx? 

The turnaround from "THE VAXXES SAVE EVERYONE!" to "DELTA THREW US A CURVE!" was so short that there wasn't ever a time when we could say that the vaccines actually worked.  

[Winston]

50 minutes ago, Argus said:

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2021/08/anti-vaxxer-demands-you-produce-a-single-study-showing-mrna-vaccines-are-safe-no-not-that-one/

What is the point of these articles? A news media outlet that does not have citations on a scientific topic has 0 value to anyone, other than an opinion piece. The only way a news media outlet has scientific or medical credibility is if they have an impeccable record of correct information and multiple citations to scientific studies. Depending upon the claim, even an opinion from a professional is questionable without supporting data or citations.

The "anti-vaxxer" has the same problem, what what is the point of his opinion? it holds no validity without citations or data to support his claim. 

  

[myata]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

"... not everyone can take them, and those are the unhealthiest people of all. Those people get dumped into the unvaccinated stats". 

The muzak has an expiry term. Must squeeze in whatever goes before it goes bad.

Edited August 25, 2021 by myata

[myata]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

The turnaround from "THE VAXXES SAVE EVERYONE!" to "DELTA THREW US A CURVE!" was so short that there wasn't ever a time when we could say that the vaccines actually worked.  

Delta variant was reported in December 2020 in India and UK and became dominant by summer. That excuse didn't fly even before it was claimed.

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse.

Do you have any adult words to add to the thread Bubber? 

Do you have some stats that show young, healthy people are dying or getting extremely sick from covid? You know that the normal seasonal flu kills about 40-300 kids a year in the US alone? Covid deaths in children without pre-existing conditions is virtually zero.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-flu-usa-idUSN1223579720100212 Swine Flu killed 1,800 American children in 2009. 

Do you understand that dbl-vaxxed people are still getting and spreading C19? 

[BubberMiley]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

 

Do you understand that dbl-vaxxed people are still getting and spreading C19? 

Yes. They aren't dying though. 

Spreading covid disinformation is a stupid thing to do. You should stop it.

[bush_cheney2004]

53 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

Yes. They aren't dying though.

 

Patently false....

Quote

...Similar trends are observed for hospitalizations and deaths, with unvaccinated cases accounting for 92.5% of hospitalizations and 92.1% of deaths and breakthrough cases accounting for 0.8% of hospitalizations and 1.2% of deaths (Figure 4).

https://www.publichealthontario.ca/-/media/documents/ncov/epi/covid-19-epi-confirmed-cases-post-vaccination.pdf?la=en

 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, BubberMiley said:

Yes. They aren't dying though. 

Spreading covid disinformation is a stupid thing to do. You should stop it.

Yes, double-vaxxed people still die, from covid. Check it.

Did you honestly not know that after all this time?

[WestCanMan]

21 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

...Similar trends are observed for hospitalizations and deaths, with unvaccinated cases accounting for 92.5% of hospitalizations and 92.1% of deaths and breakthrough cases accounting for 0.8% of hospitalizations and 1.2% of deaths (Figure 4).

I don't blame you for getting that stat from there, seems like a normal thing to do, but it's a bit misleading because no one in Canada was vaccinated at the start of their quoted time frame:

Quote

• Unvaccinated cases accounted for the majority (95.2%) of COVID-19 cases reported since December 14, 2020 and up to August 7, 2021, with breakthrough cases accounted for only 0.6% (Figure 4).

Between Dec 14th and January 31st (or so, that's if they went 31 days between shots, but that's just my guess, I don't know how long it's supposed to be) it is actually impossible for there to have even been a single 'breakthrough case'.  Breakthrough cases only occur in people who get covid more than 14 days after the second dose:

Quote

• Breakthrough (i.e., fully vaccinated) case: Cases with a symptom onset date that was 14 or more days following receipt of the second dose of a 2-dose series COVID-19 vaccine or 14 or more days following the first dose of a COVID-19 vaccine product with a 1-dose schedule.

I think that they recommend the second dose after 42 days? And in any event most Canadians got the second shot well after it was recommended. 

In reality, there were probably zero fully vaccinated Canadians until mid-February, and only a few thousand by the end of that month. So, for 1/3 of the time frame specified, the total number of breakthrough cases actually had to be zero. The stat is intentionally misleading.

They might as well have a stat for how many goals NBA players scored in the NHL during that time frame and try to act as if it somehow means something. 

Knowing that their stats are intentionally skewed makes me wonder just how accurate any of their other information is. 

If they want people to trust the vaccines then they should put out stats that are legitimate. These stats are 100% guaranteed to be purely illegitimate. 

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

In reality, there were probably zero fully vaccinated Canadians until mid-February, and only a few thousand by the end of that month. So, for 1/3 of the time frame specified, the total number of breakthrough cases actually had to be zero. The stat is intentionally misleading.

 

Provincial and federal health officials in Canada have represented the vaccination protocols followed as "fully vaccinated" regardless of two dose delays, mixed vaccination types, and suspended product (e.g. AZ).

Games Canada wants to play with data  is up to Canada, but clearly there have been breakthrough deaths even if a very small number.

[WestCanMan]

6 hours ago, Winston said:

What is the point of these articles? A news media outlet that does not have citations on a scientific topic has 0 value to anyone, other than an opinion piece. The only way a news media outlet has scientific or medical credibility is if they have an impeccable record of correct information and multiple citations to scientific studies. Depending upon the claim, even an opinion from a professional is questionable without supporting data or citations.

The "anti-vaxxer" has the same problem, what what is the point of his opinion? it holds no validity without citations or data to support his claim. 

It wasn't an 'article'. It was satire. Like reading the Onion or Babylon Bee. 

https://www.theonion.com/vaccine-skeptic-does-own-research-by-enrolling-45-000-f-1847556258

Quote

Vaccine Skeptic Does Own Research By Enrolling 45,000 Friends In Double-Blind Clinical Trial

Quote

SUMMIT, NJ—Determined to gather all the facts before drawing any conclusions, local vaccine skeptic Joel Edwards was reportedly doing his own research Wednesday by enrolling 45,000 friends in a double-blind clinical trial. “It’s important to always think for yourself, which is why I’m conducting a 5-year, 3-phase, placebo-controlled study with tens of thousands of volunteers from across the country,” said the 32-year-old car wash attendant, who explained that he had divided the trial participants into two randomized groups, one which he would inject with the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine, and the other whom he would administer an injection of saline solution. “Listen, I’m no sucker. You’re free to be a sheep, but I’m not going to take anything the government tells me for granted without conducting a multi-million dollar study published in the New England Journal Of Medicine proving the safety and efficacy of mRNA vaccines.”

I love that they used the New England Journal of Medicine instead of the Lancet for their little joke. Wonder why?

[WestCanMan]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Games Canada wants to play with data  is up to Canada, but clearly there have been breakthrough deaths even if a very small number.

I'm glad that they acknowledged that dbl-vaxxed people are still dying from covid, but I still hate the fact that they're intentionally being misleading with their stats.

For all I know, they might only be including people who got two doses of the same medication at the exactly prescribed interval, which again, is almost no one in Canada.

People here got 'one of these and one of those', or if they got two of the same it was sometimes after 3-4 months instead of the 42 days or whatever was recommended. If those people don't count as 'dbl-vaxxed' then dbl-vaxxed could mean <50,000 people for all I know. 

[myata]

Asides from the arguments and numbers, interesting to observe different styles of the discussion. Again, how would we have known, under blossoming in the air (self-dreamed) illusion and pipe dream of great and strong democracy?

There are arguments, facts and numbers. They can be right or wrong, that is never guaranteed and can, and should always be questioned, in a great democratic society. And this is exactly what the propaganda wing does not do; they drop a few purportedly self-obvious truths or numbers; they expect immediate and complete agreement and compliance; and if it would not follow (right to question, critical thinking, remember?) they invent labels and after a short while disappear. Then all over again. And never, ever notice or answer specific and clear questions about inconsistencies and the flaws in the story.

Notice something? Yes, these are the classic symptoms of the effect of massive propaganda. First, it undermines critical part of the consciousness by drumming, continuously and incessantly, the one and only truth. And then, it creates a clear and obvious opponent. In a situation of uncertainty humans may fear and worry and without critical ability it can be easily directed in the needed direction. Even if not the correct one, the one(s) that actually solve the problem or approach the solution(s) but how would one know, without the ability to think independently, create and question?

With the new and greatest of vaccines the population is 99% safer. Then, safer than driving. Safer than flu! But the struggle must continue and so more restrictions and mandatory rules and mandates are coming. How does this make any sense? For that we have undisputed experts in history, with many a painful episode that were vouched not to be forgotten and should not have been forgotten. And yet, here we are. Again.

[BubberMiley]

7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Patently false....

 

5hank you for proving my point. I didn't think it necessary to include the disclaimer that everybody eventually dies. 

But it is a pandemic of the unvaccinated now. That still, unfortunately,  has the potential to quickly fill ICUs.

Edited August 26, 2021 by BubberMiley

[myata]

43 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

".. quickly fill ICUs".

Aka, "the ICU boogey". So here's how the story goes. First we're paid uncounted public billions and trillions (complete with obscene CEO compensations and bonuses) to have an efficient and effective system with an adequate capacity, including, obviously, epidemiological emergencies.

Next, we screw and waste it with the result of filling the emergency departments even in regular operation and obviously, having nowhere near sufficient capacity for unforeseen developments.

And the final step: see! It's all you!! ("travel from Wuhan? Not a problem!") ICUs are near the capacity!!! Are you scared yet? So keep on that mask on, never take it off and don't ever think of questioning our wisdom!

Makes sense, no?

Edited August 26, 2021 by myata

[BubberMiley]

2 minutes ago, myata said:

!

Makes sense, no?

It would make sense if you were stupid enough to think that wearing masks was the outcome your overlords always wanted.

[RedDog]

I suspect further lockdowns are imminent. Numbers are spiking again as people virtually ignore social distancing and prudent mask use when appropriate for the safety of others.

Places where masks are required such as public transit, sees it ignored by an increasing number of passengers, with drivers saying nothing. We’re going to get exactly what we deserve when I was just enjoying my morning swims again.

I see another winter of Covid hell ahead and we only have ourselves to blame.

[Winston]

1 hour ago, RedDog said:

I see another winter of Covid hell ahead and we only have ourselves to blame.

Why would we have ourselves to blame? 

If anyone is to blame, it would be the governing bodies. It is up to the governing bodies to make decisions in the best interest of the public, not individual citizens. 

[myata]

2 hours ago, RedDog said:

.... we only have ourselves to blame.

How fraking funny can it be? Millions and billions were paid to who? Who was responsible for epidemiological preparedness two decades back, after SARS and MERS? Who was getting $20 K and more and not per year (like "our frontline heroes!") but monthly, plus all the bells, whistles and allowances? But of course for the failures we have "only ourselves to blame". O Holy propaganda, and what it wouldn't do?

[myata]

2 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

 wearing masks was the outcome your overlords always wanted.

The experience so far shows that our public overlords indeed want and expect full and unquestioned obedience. Otherwise they would be capable of an intelligent dialogue with the society, and of explaining and defending overreaching decisions. Mask is only a token of these times. And because it's so easily identifiable it serves the purpose well. That, the purpose, of the appearing and being seen in control as opposed to being competent and effective. The purpose and claim of managing the population in place of the infection as the job description said.

[Argus]

9 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Games Canada wants to play with data  is up to Canada, but clearly there have been breakthrough deaths even if a very small number.

Of course there have been, but mostly among those who were frail and sick to begin with. They're not jamming the hospitals like the otherwise healthy are in bubbaland. Cletus and Goober are dying in large numbers while they rant and rave about fake diseases and vow to not be vaccinated.

[Argus]

57 minutes ago, Winston said:

Why would we have ourselves to blame? 

If anyone is to blame, it would be the governing bodies. It is up to the governing bodies to make decisions in the best interest of the public, not individual citizens. 

So you're saying the government should force people to be vaccinated?

[Argus]

2 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

It would make sense if you were stupid enough to think that wearing masks was the outcome your overlords always wanted.

Weren't you aware that the ambition of every world dictator is to force people to wear masks and stay at home where they aren't productive while the government bankrupts itself paying them to drink beer, play video games and watch TV?

[Winston]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

So you're saying the government should force people to be vaccinated?

Please quote where I said that.

Why are we to blame Argus?