Pandemic will likely get worse in the fall and winter but no more lockdowns.

[WestCanMan]

8 minutes ago, Argus said:

Of course there have been, but mostly among those who were frail and sick to begin with. 

Wow. Just like covid. What a coincidence.

[myata]

7 minutes ago, Argus said:

... while the government bankrupts itself paying them to drink beer, play video games and watch TV?

What a naive notion. The government is sitting on the bottomless bucket (aka pockets of the future generations of the taxpayers) to fund its aspirations and ambitions in whatever way it would fathom (no checks and controls, remember). You paid billions and trillions for "fixing it for a generation"? Be happy now that 1/10 of the population (if that many) "can quickly fill the ICUs". Yes, you get it, two decades after SARS and MERS.

[CITIZEN_2015]

I think it is a waste of time to try to convince this small tiny minority of Canadian population (but a majority in this thread or forum) that vaccines are both safe and very effective and have significantly reduced hospitalization and Covid-related deaths as they oppose all available data from various sources as some kind of conspiracy by experts and government official at all different levels.

It is equally waste of time try to logic with them that by refusing to vaccinate they not only endanger their own lives (they have the right to do so) but they also endanger other people's lives (they do not have the right to do so) including their loved ones. 

[WestCanMan]

Big Pharma: "Babe Ruth had 700 home runs before Barry Bonds even got his first RBI. Therefor, Babe Ruth is 1,216.3x better."

The covid Karens: "Whoa. Babe Ruth was 1,216.3x better."

 

 

[myata]

3 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

It is equally waste of .. logic

When are the restrictions coming down? If it's now "the epidemics of the unvaccinated" when will the restrictions be removed for those who listened and followed?

[Winston]

1 minute ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

It is equally waste of time try to logic with them that by refusing to vaccinate they not only endanger their own lives (they have the right to do so) but they also endanger other people's lives (they do not have the right to do so) including their loved ones. 

 

Vaccinated people can shed the virus. 

Unvaccinated people can shed the virus. 

An unvaccinated person who does not have the virus is no danger, same goes for a vaccinated person. 

What logic are you talking about? Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can endanger lives if and only if they are infected. 

[dialamah]

3 minutes ago, Winston said:

 

Vaccinated people can shed the virus. 

Unvaccinated people can shed the virus. 

An unvaccinated person who does not have the virus is no danger, same goes for a vaccinated person. 

What logic are you talking about? Both vaccinated and unvaccinated people can endanger lives if and only if they are infected. 

Vaccinated people are much LESS likely to get sick, therefore much LESS likely to be shedding any viruses.

[Argus]

19 minutes ago, Winston said:

Please quote where I said that.

Why are we to blame Argus?

 

Either the government is responsible - and you shouldn't have responsibility without power, or the morons who refuse to get vaccinated are responsible.

[Argus]

17 minutes ago, myata said:

What a naive notion. The government is sitting on the bottomless bucket (aka pockets of the future generations of the taxpayers) to fund its aspirations and ambitions in whatever way it would fathom (no checks and controls, remember). You paid billions and trillions for "fixing it for a generation"? Be happy now that 1/10 of the population (if that many) "can quickly fill the ICUs". Yes, you get it, two decades after SARS and MERS.

That rambling, incoherent nonsense does not even remotely suggest what advantage or benefit there is for politicians in Canada and other western countries to make people wear masks and stay home.

[Winston]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

Vaccinated people are much LESS likely to get sick, therefore much LESS likely to be shedding any viruses.

With the original variant yes, but keep in mind if they show less symptoms they are likely to interact with the public. If evidence shows that a fully vaccinated person has less symptoms, less sever infection, lower shedding, an argument could be made they could be transmitting the virus by more frequent social interactions. If evidence shows that an infected but unvaccinated person has more sever infection and higher shedding, they would be inclined to self isolate and seek testing.

This would suggest a fully vaccinated person is likely to transmit the virus than an unvaccinated person purely through social behavior.

Again this is only if the individual is infected. 

[Argus]

22 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Wow. Just like covid. What a coincidence.

You're saying healthy people aren't dying of covid?

[WestCanMan]

5 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I think it is a waste of time to try to convince this small tiny minority of Canadian population (but a majority in this thread or forum) that vaccines are both safe and very effective and have significantly reduced hospitalization and Covid-related deaths as they oppose all available data from various sources as some kind of conspiracy by experts and government official at all different levels.

If you think that what I said was wrong then why don't you try to do that with numbers instead of just blathering?

People keep posting stats here that don't say what they think they say. They're getting lied to and they have no f'ing clue, just like you still don't understand.

Citizen-2015 - try to follow: counting the number of fully vaxxed who were hospitalized or died from covid between Dec 2020 and March 2021 is like counting the number of unvaxxed who died between 1986 and 2010.

Try to find any miscalculations within the following blatantly skewed stats: "Between 1986 and 2010, out of 7 billion unvaccinated people, no one died of covid. The Case Infected Rate and Mortality Rate for 14 years were both zero. [You get that I was correct, even though the stat was totally bogus, right?] In 2021 alone, tens of thousands of dbl-vaxxed people across the planet have died or ended up in hospitals with covid. [Again, that's 'correct', but cherry-picking stats full of misleading/retarded data doesn't prove anything aside from dishonesty]. Over 80% of the people in Israel are vaccinated against covid and their numbers are spiking right now. The vaccines are clearly to blame." Do you see how all of the 'calculations' there are accurate, but the skewed timeline makes them useless? 

You guys are quoting stats that are blatantly stupid and completely useless. In this case the government of Ontario put the stats out there, and they even contain the truth in the fine print at the bottom, but the numbers at the top of the page are all that the peons are supposed to look at. "Don't think, peons. Mange, mange, mange!"

[WestCanMan]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

You're saying healthy people aren't dying of covid?

Yes. 

Why else do you think that posters here cite links to things like "a 59 yr-old man in London with no underlying conditions died of covid"? How is that a story if it's normal here?

[Winston]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

Either the government is responsible - and you shouldn't have responsibility without power, or the morons who refuse to get vaccinated are responsible.

Again I ask how are we to blame? That was the original statement I was against.

The governing bodies are responsible for ensuring decisions are made in the best interest of all citizens. Were the governing bodies decisions always in the best interest of all citizens? If not, they are to blame. 

"morons who refuse to get vaccinated are responsible." Responsible for what? 

[myata]

Just to get an idea what the problem is, please get away from the propaganda drumming, it won't take long. The numbers are, in Ontario today there are close to 75% vaccinated (close to 70%, fully).

Close to 15% are children under 12.

People with underlying conditions for whom vaccination is not recommended, 1 - 5%.

That leaves around 5% of the population that has not vaccinated by choice. This is the actual size of the problem all those scary "antivaxxxxers" do you know one, by the way? And when we get to 80%, it'll be down to single percents, a tiny minority.

That's it, you can turn it back on. It's because of them you can't have your (more or less) normal life back no matter how many times and hard you try. And no, there's no intelligent, smart, selective and targeted, and effective solutions just believe us (upon our word) we have thought about that for you. So jerk it on and march on, on and on to the shiny future and above all, never question, count and think on your own. We're here to do that for you, never worry.

[WestCanMan]

If the government of Ontario has some stats for fully-vaccinated people vs unvaxxed, starting at the beginning of June when there were actually a lot of dbl-vaxxed Ontarians, and they clearly define what they mean by 'unvaxxed', I'll give them some credibility. (I doubt that they want to use those stats though because "Delta threw them a curve.")

Right now there are several million 'dbl-vaxxed' Canadians whose vaccination status can be moved into whichever box a statistician wants, based on what outcome they are trying to achieve. 

People who were vaxxed with 1Pfizer and 1Moderna, or were vaxxed twice with the same meds but the time between vaccinations was double or triple the recommended timeline, could be counted with dbl-vaxxed if it's convenient, or partially-vaxxed if it's not. IE they can include those people in the fully-vaxxed category to inflate that number, but not counted with the dbl-vaxxed if their infection rates are too high. 

It sounds ridiculous to accuse the government of cheating so blatantly, but the last stats that they put out were a pack of lies. They need to be very meticulous about calculating their stats properly and very precise about who is recorded in what category based on their varying vaxx statuses. 

[Infidel Dog]

14 minutes ago, myata said:

Just to get an idea what the problem is, please get away from the propaganda drumming, it won't take long. The numbers are, in Ontario today there are close to 75% vaccinated (close to 70%, fully).

Close to 15% are children under 12.

People with underlying conditions for whom vaccination is not recommended, 1 - 5%.

You forgot the big one. Those who have had covid and whose antibodies most likely make them more immune than the vaccine would now.

[WestCanMan]

10 minutes ago, myata said:

Just to get an idea what the problem is, please get away from the propaganda drumming, it won't take long. The numbers are, in Ontario today there are close to 75% vaccinated (close to 70%, fully).

Close to 15% are children under 12.

People with underlying conditions for whom vaccination is not recommended, 1 - 5%.

So 70% are fully vaxxed, 5% are single-vaxxed, 15% are kids under 12, that's 90% of the population right there.

Of the remaining 10%, as many as 50% of them are unvaxxed with underlying conditions for whom the vaxx is not recommended....

It seems like Big Pharma is really stacking the deck to make their vaxxes look good. 

"We won't allow the people who are probably going to die to take the vaxx, and we will force the absolute healthiest people who have almost no chance of dying to vaccinate, and that way the vaccine stats will show:

1. a massive number of people who are vaxxed who don't get sick
2. a small number of people who aren't vaxxed, but close to 50% of them will be the most vulnerable

LMAO, they're very good at something.

I could inject saline into people like that and come out with very promising stats. 

[myata]

3 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

You forgot the big one. Those who have had covid and whose antibodies most likely make them more immune than the vaccine would now.

My bad. So from scary 5% down to horrible single digits or even fractions? Aiii!! Pesky antivaxxers are coming for you, quickly jerk on your masks zip up full body protection suits just stay at home and always blindly follow what you're told from high on!

[WestCanMan]

28 minutes ago, myata said:

People with underlying conditions for whom vaccination is not recommended, 1 - 5%.

Is this really legit? Do you have a source for that?

If Big Pharma's lobbyists are force-vaccinating all of the strongest people 12 and up, and specifically leaving out the only people in the population who were actually at risk of dying, they could vaxx us all with Saline and their vaxxes would look bulletproof. They'd be guaranteed a massive success rate.

I thought that the point of the vaxxes was to give the weakest people a fighting chance, not to use them as a cannon fodder to make their vaccines look good.

[myata]

3 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Is this really legit? Do you have a source for that?

If Big Pharma's lobbyists are force-vaccinating all of the strongest people 12 and up, and specifically leaving out the only people in the population who were actually at risk of dying, they could vaxx us all with Saline and their vaxxes would look bulletproof. They'd be guaranteed a massive success rate.

I thought that the point of the vaxxes was to give the weakest people a fighting chance, not to use them as a cannon fodder to make their vaccines look good.

No I didn't research the actual rate of exclusions, there's a list of conditions they ask you about before vaccination though, it appeared to me as reasonably rare but the number is an educated guess, based on prevalence of other rare conditions.

[Infidel Dog]

Here's an interesting one for Argus who likes to present a week of stats from Ontario and present them as proof of something applicable to the entire world for the end of time and for Citizen who likes to give him  digital tongue baths of Kudos for his online creation of pictographs for the week.

At the beginning of the month Florida was peaking with between 187 to 189 Daily Deaths. Since that time DeSantis has made the antibody treatment available to Floridians that cured Trump. In the last three days daily deaths have fluctuated between 9 and 1.

[WestCanMan]

16 minutes ago, myata said:

No I didn't research the actual rate of exclusions, there's a list of conditions they ask you about before vaccination though, it appeared to me as reasonably rare but the number is an educated guess, based on prevalence of other rare conditions.

What kinds of conditions were on the list? Do they tell you that you shouldn't take the vaxx if you have them?

If things like emphysema are there then it's basically just a covid death list. 

[WestCanMan]

18 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Here's an interesting one for Argus who likes to present a week of stats from Ontario and present them as proof of something applicable to the entire world for the end of time and for Citizen who likes to give him  digital tongue baths of Kudos for his online creation of pictographs for the week.

At the beginning of the month Florida was peaking with between 187 to 189 Daily Deaths. Since that time DeSantis has made the antibody treatment available to Floridians that cured Trump. In the last three days daily deaths have fluctuated between 9 and 1.

Cue the Karens: "ANTIBODIES DON'T WORK! IT'S IMPOSSIBLE! YOUR COVID DISINFORMATION IS KILLING PEOPLE!"

[Argus]

19 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Here's an interesting one for Argus who likes to present a week of stats from Ontario and present them as proof of something applicable to the entire world for the end of time and for Citizen who likes to give him  digital tongue baths of Kudos for his online creation of pictographs for the week.

At the beginning of the month Florida was peaking with between 187 to 189 Daily Deaths. Since that time DeSantis has made the antibody treatment available to Floridians that cured Trump. In the last three days daily deaths have fluctuated between 9 and 1.

A few months ago, Gov. Ron DeSantis, Republican of Florida, declared his hands-off approach to COVID-19 “a tremendous success.” Politico announced that he had “won the pandemic.”

But then came the hypercontagious Delta variant, which continues to hit Florida harder than anywhere else in the country.

The result? DeSantis just added another, less flattering distinction to his résumé. When COVID first surged across the Sun Belt last summer, the average number of Floridians dying of the disease every 24 hours peaked at 185, according to the New York Times’s state-by-state COVID database. The same was true over the winter.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/florida-is-the-only-state-where-more-people-are-dying-of-covid-now-than-ever-before-what-went-wrong-090001893.html