Liberals Waiting to see if Taliban Run a Peaceful Government

[scribblet]

This video of Marc Garneau is painful to watch. He wants to wait and see if the Taliban are going to run a peaceful government and he thinks Canada has done great job responding to the crisis.

To quote Jen Gerson on Twitter, "the moral nothingness of these people"...

 

https://fb.watch/7toA32Ks-t/

[Savannahleaf]

They did make a lot of promises.

[Michael Hardner]

Let's face it, we are following the Americans ?.  Trump's deal with the Taliban was curious, but it might work out for the best.

[CITIZEN_2015]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Let's face it, we are following the Americans ?.  Trump's deal with the Taliban was curious, but it might work out for the best.

US made a deal with the devil again and it never works. A repeat of the mistake they made with another bunch of mullahs in 1979. Promises in the deal were broken, Americans taken hostage, total reginal instability giving birth to terrorism, instability in Persian Gulf, middle east, invasions of Afghanistan, 911 event and many Western military personnel dead and Iran and its nation completely destroyed.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/10/ayatollah-khomeini-jimmy-carter-administration-iran-revolution

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36431160

Edited August 19, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[Michael Hardner]

22 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

1. US made a deal with the devil again and it never works. A repeat of the mistake they made with another bunch of mullahs in 1979. Promises in the deal were broken, Americans taken hostage, total reginal instability giving birth to terrorism, instability in Persian Gulf, middle east, invasions of Afghanistan, 911 event and many Western military personnel dead and Iran and its nation completely destroyed.

 

1. Your observation is valid.  I can't say you are wrong here.

[Yzermandius19]

nation building doesn't work

staying forever

is a far dumber plan

than cutting your loses

and folding a hand that cannot win

shouldn't have played that hand in the first place

but just because you did

doesn't mean you should go down with the ship

fallacy of sunk costs, is for suckers

Edited August 19, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[CITIZEN_2015]

I am not saying that Western military personnel should have stayed there and killed. No reason why westerners should die to save Afghans from invading Taliban terrorists but the deal with the devil should not have been made and military (air support, hardware support) should not have been withdrawn and moral and financial support continued and government official in Afghanistan given a serious warning to end looting and corruption or face trial in international courts.

Edited August 19, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[WestCanMan]

America just created the next group of super-terrorists. What else is new?

Every decade they go over there and "train these guys to fight those guys" and eventually "these guys" are all on the other side, killing Americans.

We need to just stay out of it and let them kill each other. If we have to drop a bomb once in a while to smarten them up that should be the extent of it.

Reliance on ME oil needs to end, but for reasons that are far beyond my ken, extracting oil from NA is "so much worse than doing deals with the devil !!!!!! "

[Yzermandius19]

14 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I am not saying that Western military personnel should have stayed there and killed. No reason why westerners should die to save Afghans from invading Taliban terrorists but the deal with the devil should not have been made and military (air support, hardware support) should not have been withdrawn and moral and financial support continued and government official in Afghanistan given a serious warning to end looting and corruption or face trial in international courts.

the former government in Afghanistan was a fake government

propped up entirely by America

there was no way to save it

obvious potemkin village is obvious

staying to prop it up

would be a fool's errand

should have never gone in

in the first place

better the Taliban run the place

than AQ or ISIS

the fake government continuing to run the joint

is a pipe dream of wishful thinkers

that don't understand Afghanistan or it's people at all

Edited August 19, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Infidel Dog]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Let's face it, we are following the Americans ?.  Trump's deal with the Taliban was curious, but it might work out for the best.

We'll never know how "Trump's deal" might have worked out. The power behind the Biden regime discarded it.

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

We'll never know how "Trump's deal" might have worked out. The power behind the Biden regime discarded it.

no deal, no matter how good

would have stopped the Taliban from filling the void

that was baked into the cake

no matter what America did

that was the inevitable outcome

anyone claiming that isn't knowable

is simply ignorant of the situation

Edited August 19, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

Just now, Infidel Dog said:

We'll never know how "Trump's deal" might have worked out. The power behind the Biden regime discarded it.

How so ?  From what I have read it's mostly gone forward according to the initial timeline.  

[Yzermandius19]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

How so ?  From what I have read it's mostly gone forward according to the initial timeline.  

not true

they delayed the withdrawal from May to September and broke the deal

as political ploy to rob Trump of the credit for the withdrawal

so Biden could take the credit instead

it clearly made the situation worse

however, Trump's deal would not have stopped the Taliban from taking over

but it would have reduced the clusterfck compared to what we see now

 

withdrawal was never going to be without downsides

but staying has even greater downsides

and when they inevitably left

it would have just made the downsides of withdrawal even worse

the longer they stayed

 

Biden made the right call to pull out

the execution was terrible though

and he deserves to take the blame for that

Edited August 19, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

 

1. they delayed the withdrawal from May to September and broke the deal

2. withdrawal was never going to be without downsides

 

1. I thought it was on scheduled based on this: "The United States agreed to an initial reduction of its force level from 13,000 to 8,600 by July 2020, followed by a full withdrawal within 14 months if the Taliban keeps its commitments. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doha_Agreement_(2020)#The_agreement

I understood that some meetings and prisoner exchange didn't happen but that is the Afghan government not agreeing.

2. Agreed.  

[Yzermandius19]

8 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I thought it was on scheduled based on this: "The United States agreed to an initial reduction of its force level from 13,000 to 8,600 by July 2020, followed by a full withdrawal within 14 months if the Taliban keeps its commitments. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doha_Agreement_(2020)#The_agreement

I understood that some meetings and prisoner exchange didn't happen but that is the Afghan government not agreeing.

2. Agreed.  

nope, the schedule agreed to was withdrawal in May 2021, that was the deal the Trump admin agreed to

and the Biden admin altered it to withdrawal on September 11th, 2021

that was all on America breaking the deal

for partisan political reasons

withdrawal was not based on troop draw down from 13,000 to 8.600

8,600 left is not withdrawal

Edited August 19, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Yzermandius19]

Biden basically pulled the Darth Vader

and the Taliban called his bluff

 

you ain't Vader, bro

don't snow, Joe

you wanna brake the deal?

fine, we'll take advantage of your stupidity

go right ahead

make our day

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Infidel Dog]

Trump's was a staged withdrawal, meaning it was to happen in stages, and if the Taliban didn't to play it out according to plan they were dealing with Trump not Biden. 

The Biden plan...well, you're seeing that one play out before your eyes.

[Yzermandius19]

33 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Trump's was a staged withdrawal, meaning it was to happen in stages, and if the Taliban didn't to play it out according to plan they were dealing with Trump not Biden. 

The Biden plan...well, you're seeing that one play out before your eyes.

Trump's withdrawal plan

would have been better

no doubt

however

the end result

would still have been the Taliban taking control of the country

that not happening

was never on the table

regardless of what withdrawal plan was executed

the fake Afghanistan government was never going to survive

without America propping it up with military force

and even then, it was on shaky ground the whole time

Edited August 19, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Infidel Dog]

I don't think anybody is saying Trump planned to stay in Afghanistan. 

He had a contingency plan for getting Americans out safely. It overlapped with another program called Op Med. That one was in place from aiding transportation of Americans at the start of the covid crisis.

The Biden State Department had it cancelled even though talk of contingency plans for such things began after the mess in Benghazi.

They go into all this in detail here:

https://thenationalpulse.com/exclusive/bidens-state-dept-halted-trump-era-crisis-response-plan/

and here:

 

[Infidel Dog]

Ben Shapiro seems to think contingencies could have helped secure a safe transition for the Afghan people but that's a fantasy, I think.

He goes into the horrors Afghanis are facing right now. He shows videos. Pretty horrible stuff and the Taliban are going after translators and others who helped Americans. That sucks.

Nevertheless Americans in Afghanistan could have been protected. Armaments could have been evacuated with them rather than be left there for Taliban usage. And I hear Al Qaida will be returning so they'll be pleased to get access to RPGs, Drones and armored vehicles if not the odd Tank.

They'll have a big thank you for Joe, I'm sure.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[bush_cheney2004]

8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Let's face it, we are following the Americans ?. 

 

Yes and no....Canada's longest war and military deployment to Afghanistan ended in 2014, with most Canadian Forces out of the region by 2011, mostly because of domestic political circumstances, detainee scandal, etc.   This Canadian decision pre-dated anything materially similar to American policy at the time (Obama), who actually doubled down in Afghanistan.

I would agree that Canada is following American policy for this final chapter in the nearly 20 year Western investment in counter-terrorism and nation building.

 

Quote

Trump's deal with the Taliban was curious, but it might work out for the best.

 

Trump's main contribution was the policy decision and realization that this "forever war" had to come to an end for America (and logically any NATO allies).   For Nixon and Vietnam, it was "peace with honour".   I don't know about Canada's prior NGO contributions to A'stan, but the U.S. (CIA/USAID/NGOs) was the largest contributor for any other nation before 9/11, despite Clinton's attacks on Al Qaeda training camps in 1998.

It remains to be seen if Canadian or other foreign aid will continue in any capacity with a Taliban government in power.   I would expect more U.S. covert operations in the region with or without partnership (e.g. Pakistan).

[Yzermandius19]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Ben Shapiro seems to think contingencies could have helped secure a safe transition for the Afghan people but that's a fantasy, I think.

wishful thinking is a helluva drug

Shapiro thinks America should just stay forever

so long as it's just a small footprint

and if they did

then they could have propped up the fake Afghan government forever

without the Taliban ever taking back control of the country

that's just delusion MIC shilling, right thurr

 

Shapiro has a lot of good points at times

and he's clearly a smart dude

who is good at making an argument

but his foreign policy is definitely a serious weak point of his

despite how knowledgeable he is on the topic

he still lacks insight and common sense

and repeats silly cookie cutter talking points of neoliberal foreign policy

 

he does a better job of that

than most of the folks peddling that shit

but it's still nonsense

though he does make good points at times on foreign policy too

he often misses the forest for the trees due to confirmation bias

his recent Afghanistan analysis is a prime example of that

Edited August 19, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[cannuck]

23 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Armaments could have been evacuated with them rather than be left there for Taliban usage. And I hear Al Qaida will be returning so they'll be pleased to get access to RPGs, Drones and armored vehicles if not the odd Tank.

They'll have a big thank you for Joe, I'm sure.

THAT's the big one and the tough one.  If the US had taken the weaponry, they would have been accused of leaving the "government" of Afgan unable to defend.  If they leave the weapons, they WILL be used to up the Taliban/al Queda terrorism game.   Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I have been told that both Russia and China have done their deals to get access to the resources of the country.  What now needs to be done is look for the bag man - assume that Slow Joe's kid is waist deep in the payouts and I bet you strike paydirt.  I have also been told that a SIGNIFICANT amount of money (as in many, many times what was reported in the media) disappeared along with the former President and that a lot of that has been paid out to certain countries.  Would love to know the rest of THAT story.

Edited August 20, 2021 by cannuck