Ontario needs to invest in EVs as a realistic Option.

[herbie]

Lucky! Of all the dealers here, there's only 7 on the lots. 3 chevy Bolts and 4 Hummers.

The Bolts are too small and the cheapest GMC Hummer is $186,000 so I guess they'll sit there forever unsold.
There's a couple Blazer PHEVs listed and X'd out, as GM stopped sales over so many problems and Consumer Reports rating them the worst POS on the market.

I was about to go to a City Council meet to ask why there's no charging station here yet but I noticed on the EV owners site there's two at the College here. No ads, no promotion, no mention of them anywhere. No one that lives here knew. And a Council claiming its promoting tourism.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Legato said:

Had a F150 for 10 years, kept up on maintenance, never let me down. Sold 3 years ago as I didn't need a truck anymore.

Dealer gave me an excellent trade in value on a smaller ICE vehicle. Same dealership right now has a plethora on EV's on the lot, just sitting there covered in snow.

My 02 toyota taco is still going very strong and reliable after 16 years of my ownership, and i am not kind to my trucks.  I use it mostly now for a little offroading and hauling loads, so the car gets most of the use and it is very fuel efficient. But i do love to use my vehicles till they just die and i'm not comfortable that would be very long in an ev.   I'd still consider one if it were a good fit for me but i don't think it is.

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, Legato said:

Same dealership right now has a plethora on EV's on the lot, just sitting there covered in snow.

Am not surprised.

Sorry, but sitting for 20 minutes while my car charges is just not for me. 

I was driving a company EV and often when I would go to public charging stations I would get the most woke looking women almost wanting to high five me for "doing my part".

If only they knew I was only driving it because I had to, plus was paid to.

I won't lie. I love how quiet they are, but the best way to describe it (I have driven tons of different EV cars), is its like driving a computer. Thats how it felt with the sounds made while reversing, etc.

I am pro saving as much energy as possible. All my bulbs were swapped to LEDs years ago, I recycle, I drive a fuel sipping ICE and bike in the summer.

People trying to shame me into buying an EV can go f*** themselves.

Make the technology better, I will be first in line. Thats how capitalism works.

[CdnFox]

Thought this was interesting:

 

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/12/23/hybrid-sales-soar-while-ev-sales-plateau/

Hybrid Sales Soar While EV Sales Plateau

What’s going on with hybrids? One, more Americans seem to want to make a difference in the fight against global warming but are not ready to commit to battery electric cars. Two, hybrids cost at most a few thousand dollars more than traditional models while full EVs can are priced ten thousand dollars or more higher. The combination makes a hybrid an appealing option for many drivers.

 

This is what i was saying. The gov't really should have leaned into the hybrid concept and we'd be in a position to actually transition to that in  few years.  But they demanded full ev's

[Perspektiv]

14 hours ago, CdnFox said:

What’s going on with hybrids?

Looks like Toyota's CEO was onto something, by refusing to fully rush into going EV globally.

He understood it would be a long time before people went EV, the required infrastructure, so in his vision--he needed a more current user friendly option to tide people over until they made the switch.

They have some of the best hybrid technology, so it also allows them to truly perfect their EV concepts and hoping the battery technology allows them to eventually make that seamless switch.

I see it like many movies now.

They are trying to ram gay agenda down our throats. Woke talking points, and then get upset when nobody wants to watch that s***.

Buying something personal for most, won't be a moral decision. It will be a highly selfish one.

I buy a car, and consider selfish needs  only.

Now that I am married again, the selfless portion  would be me being aware the wife likes large SUVs. 

I like small SUVs and sedans.

We would meet each other halfway. A pickup truck. 

Nowhere does EV appeal to me, as I look at practical. Durable, fuel efficient and good resale value.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Looks like Toyota's CEO was onto something, by refusing to fully rush into going EV globally.

He understood it would be a long time before people went EV, the required infrastructure, so in his vision--he needed a more current user friendly option to tide people over until they made the switch.

They have some of the best hybrid technology, so it also allows them to truly perfect their EV concepts and hoping the battery technology allows them to eventually make that seamless switch.

I see it like many movies now.

They are trying to ram gay agenda down our throats. Woke talking points, and then get upset when nobody wants to watch that s***.

Buying something personal for most, won't be a moral decision. It will be a highly selfish one.

I buy a car, and consider selfish needs  only.

Now that I am married again, the selfless portion  would be me being aware the wife likes large SUVs. 

I like small SUVs and sedans.

We would meet each other halfway. A pickup truck. 

Nowhere does EV appeal to me, as I look at practical. Durable, fuel efficient and good resale value.

Yeah. For me the issue is a little different. i live out in the country, no town near by. So i have to have a truck, and i've got an old tacoma that serves me very well and runs great - there's no real chance of being able to switch that for an ev. I wouldn't spend even a quarter of the money on something that's going to take a beating.

I also have to have a car - when i do drive  i don't want to spend the kind of money on gas that the truck costs and it's important to have something that looks nice for those times i do have to meet with clients.  For me it's maybe 50 -60 km to town round trip to pick up supplies once in a while but if i'm going to the doc or to see family its' more like 200 k round trip. And i may want to make some detours or go somewhere once i get there - and i'm just not comfortable with a vehicle that must be fully charged to get that kind of range and depending on the time of year it may be pushing it. 

For me with a hybrid if i could find one with a 50 km range at least 90 percent of my driving would be on battery and the rest would be on a very fuel efficent and low emission gas engine - which means that my overall emissions are cut drastically. Isn't that what we're shooting for?

[herbie]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

For me with a hybrid if i could find one with a 50 km range at least 90 percent of my driving would be on battery and the rest would be on a very fuel efficent and low emission gas engine - which means that my overall emissions are cut drastically. Isn't that what we're shooting for?

WTF you've spent pages pointing out every obsdure reason one shouldn't go electric then admit a hybrid would serve your purposes well?
In a thread saying Ontario should encourage companies like Toyota to build such as thing here....

Hell if they built the Toyota Stout pickup as a PHEV in Ontario I'd already have one ordered.

[CdnFox]

56 minutes ago, herbie said:

WTF you've spent pages pointing out every obsdure reason one shouldn't go electric then admit a hybrid would serve your purposes well?

Well that's a blatant lie.  Why do you do that? Why not just stick to the truth? Where have i every said nobody should go electric?

Point ANYWHERE AT ALL i said no one should go ev.  At all.  I have ALWAYS said EV's are useful for some drivers who fit a niche but cannot be a replacement for ICE just yet.  And that is true.  There are many people who would not fit an EV.  A LOT of people. So you cannot give up ice vehicles for EV's, they just dont' work for everyone.

However - a hybrid does in fact resolve those problems that prevent EV's from being universally adapted. Or would if the tech was mastered and expanded to other sized vehicles like trucks etc.

You eliminate the mandatory charge time. You eliminate NEEDING to charge at all if that's a problem. You severely reduce the extra cost. you reduce the expense of replacing the battery.  You eliminate the need to plan for how you'll "charge" on long trips. You eliminate much of the cold weather issues. You eliminate much of the fire hazard. You eliminate the urgent need for charging infrastructure and capacity.

And you still get on average about 80-90 percent of the emissions reduction but now you could deploy it pretty much universally tomorrow without a problem so you'd actually save a LOT more emissions than trying to stick with EV's only.

Oh - and i've brought this up before in this thread. 

You just never miss a chance to look like an 1diot do you

 

[Perspektiv]

On 2/2/2024 at 4:44 PM, CdnFox said:

You eliminate the mandatory charge time. You eliminate NEEDING to charge at all if that's a problem. You severely reduce the extra cost. you reduce the expense of replacing the battery.  You eliminate the need to plan for how you'll "charge" on long trips. You eliminate much of the cold weather issues. You eliminate much of the fire hazard. You eliminate the urgent need for charging infrastructure and capacity.

And you still get on average about 80-90 percent of the emissions reduction but now you could deploy it pretty much universally tomorrow without a problem so you'd actually save a LOT more emissions than trying to stick with EV's only.

Its a wonder why people want to virtue signal on a technology that is still very green (no pun intended), in terms of the long term reliability (and cost of ownership) that is still a question mark. 

In uncertain times, people naturally will gravitate to things that give them certainty.

No surprise hybrids have been more popular. ICEs. 

Negative 40, I can fuel my car in less than a minute. To 100%.

I don't need to plan around the 15 to 30 minute wait, and only charge up to 80%, because of course am only going to use to super charger. 

 

[OftenWrong]

On 2/1/2024 at 3:11 PM, Legato said:

It's a good one. I am not buying an ev and waiting for the technology to to evolve to thw inevitable and logical outcome - cars powered by human beings.

 

 

[OftenWrong]

On 1/31/2024 at 11:54 AM, GroundskeeperWillie said:

the reality is simply that we don't have charging stations everywhere.  This essentially puts  a limit on how far an electric vehicle can go.

My innovative approach to EV's is far better than the model being proposed currently. Rather than installing charging stations and putting them in homes, with all that it implies on infrastructure and demand, have battery replacement stations. You drive in, a robotic device removes the battery and installs a fresh one within just a few minutes. This solves multiple problems.

- No need for high current power supplies in every home.

- No need to rewire the electrical grid across the province.

- Batteries are properly charged and maintained at battery stations, which effectively replace gas stations.

- Very fast compared to hours of charge time.

-Standardized battery forms that can be carried by tow trucks for field replacement.

- I should get a job as head of engineering for Elon Musk, and become a billionaire.

 

Edited February 4 by OftenWrong

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

My innovative approach to EV's is far better than the model being proposed currently. Rather than installing charging stations and putting them in homes, with all that it implies on infrastructure and demand, have battery replacement stations. You drive in, a robotic device removes the battery and installs a fresh one within just a few minutes. This solves multiple problems.

- No need for high current power supplies in every home.

- No need to rewire the electrical grid across the province.

- Batteries are properly charged and maintained at battery stations, which effectively replace gas stations.

- Very fast compared to hours of charge time.

-Standardized battery forms that can be carried by tow trucks for field replacement.

- I should get a job as head of engineering for Elon Musk, and become a billionaire.

 

It actually would make more sense but these'd be some big ass batteries i think  

[herbie]

Australians upgrade old iMiEV (called worst EV ever made). Double the battery and range and keep more than a decade old EVs out of the landfill.

 

[Perspektiv]

On 2/8/2024 at 4:20 PM, herbie said:

Australians upgrade old iMiEV

That car looks like a power wheels car. I would rather skateboard to work.

On 2/4/2024 at 10:07 AM, OftenWrong said:

a robotic device removes the battery and installs a fresh one within just a few minutes.

Like Mr Lube, while you wait. Issue being how complex the batteries are, and for center of gravity, are under the vehicle.

Make batteries less volatile, and lighter and faster to charge reliably and which can last up to a million kilometers, making them suitable for cars, trucks and buses?

Whoever can master that, will be rich.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

That car looks like a power wheels car. I would rather skateboard to work.

Like Mr Lube, while you wait. Issue being how complex the batteries are, and for center of gravity, are under the vehicle.

Make batteries less volatile, and lighter and faster to charge reliably and which can last up to a million kilometers, making them suitable for cars, trucks and buses?

Whoever can master that, will be rich.

Sure, lots of other ideas out there. Not just Elon Musk's pipe dream invented by a bunch of college boys.

One alternative is fuel cell technology.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/articles/fuel-cells-fact-sheet

"Fuel cells are the most energy efficient devices for extracting power from fuels. Capable of running on a variety of fuels,
including hydrogen, natural gas, and biogas, fuel cells can provide clean power for applications ranging from less than a
watt to multiple megawatts."

But despite the clean energy and convenience, not good enough for the anti-carbon fascists.

Whom haven't even proven that the technology will work in bad weather, or even make a difference to so-called global warming.

 

 

[herbie]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Elon Musk's pipe dream

Pipe dream? Are you f*cking kidding? #1 seeling car of 2023, millions of them already on the road.

Perspective doesn't like the iMEV because of it's looks. The fact there's enough of them around in Australia to make a business rebuilding them says many other people use other criteria to buy a car.

GM stops building it's best selling EV for 2023, Ford builds the stupidest model into EVs and advertises the hell out of them and they're surprised sales went down last year. Are you 'surprised' too?

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

kidding? #1 seeling car of 2023, millions of them already on the road.

Yes, there are a lot of dipshits in the world. Just look at how f*cked up it is. But if you want to follow the herd over a cliff, you're free to do so.

Therebye reducing the surplus population...  🤷‍♂️

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

 

Therebye reducing the surplus population...  🤷‍♂️

 

Ebeneezer Tesla wasn't it?  

[herbie]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Yes, there are a lot of dipshits in the world. Just look at how f*cked up it is. But if you want to follow the herd over a cliff, you're free to do so.

Yes, you should follow you own advice. Lemming.

[OftenWrong]

20 hours ago, herbie said:

Yes, you should follow you own advice. Lemming.

There there. Don't be an angwy boy.

I suppose the truth is hard to accept when it takes you out of your safe space. No one wants to wake up to hear bad news, when they were all snuggly in their bed. 

But I can't help it.

"Specifically, the city claims the buses have fallen well short of Proterra's performance guarantees for Edmonton's climate that specified an operating range of 328 km at the beginning of battery life and 268 km in extreme cold."

Edmonton faces questions following $82-million electric bus failure

Now inhale slowly, and repeat after me dude:

Guzfrava...

 

Edited February 25 by OftenWrong

[Boges]

I was at the Canadian International Autoshow this past weekend. 

Just about every manufacturer had their EV front and centre. So it's not exactly true that the move to Electric is driven by virtue signalling governments. 

If people refuse to adopt EVs the deadline set by most governments is useless. There is genuine interest in this segment. 

[Boges]

On 2/25/2024 at 6:57 PM, OftenWrong said:

There there. Don't be an angwy boy.

I suppose the truth is hard to accept when it takes you out of your safe space. No one wants to wake up to hear bad news, when they were all snuggly in their bed. 

But I can't help it.

"Specifically, the city claims the buses have fallen well short of Proterra's performance guarantees for Edmonton's climate that specified an operating range of 328 km at the beginning of battery life and 268 km in extreme cold."

Edmonton faces questions following $82-million electric bus failure

Now inhale slowly, and repeat after me dude:

Guzfrava...

 

So your example of EV failure are buses purchased in 2016 that aren't performing up to standard. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/nova-bus-quebec-canada-electric-buses-1.6836326#:~:text=30-,The Canadian and Quebec governments have teamed up to buy,acquisition project in North America.

You do realize it's 2024? Standards for EVs are much higher. I look at the car I bought in 2020. It serves my purpose but the range I achieve isn't acceptable for any manufacturer. 

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

I was at the Canadian International Autoshow this past weekend. 

Just about every manufacturer had their EV front and centre. So it's not exactly true that the move to Electric is driven by virtue signalling governments. 

If people refuse to adopt EVs the deadline set by most governments is useless. There is genuine interest in this segment. 

who do you think issues the oermits for that airshow?  And did you see any canadian military planes there?

Sorry but airshows have since their inception been at least partly political and the organizers do listen to 'suggestions' .  

Sounds from other reports like ev's aren't doing that well and people are moving back to plug in hybrids a bit.

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

You do realize it's 2024? Standards for EVs are much higher. I look at the car I bought in 2020. It serves my purpose but the range I achieve isn't acceptable for any manufacturer. 

The point of my latest diatribe against EV's is that they do not work well at low temperatures. Which I think we all understand.

This is in Edmonton. You're in Ottawa, aren't you? The land of heated underground garages,where federalis have groomed and maintained the streets to the finest level to impress visiting dignitaries on how clean and well-developed Canadian cities are. Meanwhile just 100 km in any direction, that's where the real Canada begins.

The main issue for places outside of big cities is a lack of infrastructure, resources, remote locations when you do breakdown, and cold winters. All challenges to the government's plan to force-feed Canadians on EV's, whether they like it or not. Hence, thead title.

But really, who in their right mind would order EV schoobuses, especially somewhere way out there in bum-f*ck Alberta? I mean, such massive heavy vehicles, and cold cold winters. Both a limiting factor in EV design, for which it makes sense to use lightweight vehicles.

They must have really bought some EV salesman's song and dance routine. Probably went to one of them auto shows, I bet.  🕺 🕺 🕺

[Boges]

19 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

The point of my latest diatribe against EV's is that they do not work well at low temperatures. Which I think we all understand.

This is in Edmonton. You're in Ottawa, aren't you? The land of heated underground garages,where federalis have groomed and maintained the streets to the finest level to impress visiting dignitaries on how clean and well-developed Canadian cities are. Meanwhile just 100 km in any direction, that's where the real Canada begins.

The main issue for places outside of big cities is a lack of infrastructure, resources, remote locations when you do breakdown, and cold winters. All challenges to the government's plan to force-feed Canadians on EV's, whether they like it or not. Hence, thead title.

But really, who in their right mind would order EV schoobuses, especially somewhere way out there in bum-f*ck Alberta? I mean, such massive heavy vehicles, and cold cold winters. Both a limiting factor in EV design, for which it makes sense to use lightweight vehicles.

They must have really bought some EV salesman's song and dance routine. Probably went to one of them auto shows, I bet.  🕺 🕺 🕺

And I suspect more remote communities will be the last to adopt electrification. Or just use Natural Gas. I've seen Nat Gas Buses in my community (Not Ottawa). 

I don't think we'll be off Natural Gas or Propane by 2035.