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It Begins. . . Quebec and NYC to implement Vaccine Passports.


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Yeah I’m not for vaccine passports.  Businesses can try asking for proof of vaccination.  Governments can try to require proof of vaccination.  It’s already happening.  In certain workplaces I think it’s fair to require PPE unless the workers are vaccinated.  Surgeries will always be performed with PPE, vaccinated or not.

At this point I really think that besides encouraging people to get vaccinated, governments need to end restrictions and let people decide what precautions they need to take, at least in countries like Canada with high vaccination rates. Yes some people will abuse the freedom, make bad choices, and die.  We’ll have to live with that and move on. I don’t think our health care system will be especially burdened and there’s no excuse anymore for the health system and other services to use Covid as an excuse not to see or treat people.

As far as I’m concerned the pandemic is over and the challenge now is returning to normal life because people have become used to this dysfunctional restricted way of life and relying on government to tell them how to live.  No thanks.  I don’t care about the noise about Delta or Lambda or variants of variants.  If the worst case scenario is getting Covid, oh well.  I’d rather take my chances at this point than live in fear and isolation.  Thank God for jurisdictions like Alberta that are basically saying, yup Covid is just another risk we have to accept.  Do what you need to do to protect yourself and your loved ones.  Keep calm and carry on.  

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On 8/7/2021 at 6:38 AM, OftenWrong said:

Hi I’m a visitor from Benin. Can I enter your restaurant?

I got Sinovac, is that ok? My wife had two doses of Sputnik.

Doesn't look like it. 

Some countries may ban people that got mixed doses. Oh well, I guess I really didn't want to visit your country for tourism purposes anyway. 

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Remember people, a vaccine passport would only be required if cases spike again where a lockdown would be the only other remedy to help preserve healthcare and avoid another lockdown. 

With 2/3 people in Ontario being vaccinated, I would hope that wouldn't happen. 

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2 hours ago, Boges said:

Remember people, a vaccine passport would only be required if cases spike again where a lockdown would be the only other remedy to help preserve healthcare and avoid another lockdown. 

No it is not, “people”.

Lockdowns as we’ve been implementing are by now proven and recognized as adding more harm. Just as I and other non-expert dunderheads already knew and said so all along.

 

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Interesting anecdote, I know someone who when it came to the virus could be best described as “sore afraid”. He didnt even want to see his own family members. Whenever he got on a rant I would not correct him, there was no point.

Now after 1.5 years I see him again and he’s changed. He believes this is real but there is also some serious bullshit going on. He told me about Trudeau’s “Great Reset” quip.

I hope this is symbolic of what is happening amongst the general dunderheads. Anyone moderately sensible can smell a dead rat, and figure out what it means...

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33 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

No it is not, “people”.

Lockdowns as we’ve been implementing are by now proven and recognized as adding more harm. Just as I and other non-expert dunderheads already knew and said so all along.

I know you're pro-death by transmissible disease. We've established that. 

But we've also established you're anti death by waiting for surgeries because they've been cancelled due to lack of ICU capacity. 

COVID spikes all over the world cause Healthcare systems to be taxed. 

It's happening in Florida right now. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-breaks-record-new-daily-covid-cases-third-time-week-n1276263

Quote

On Saturday, Florida recorded 13,747 hospitalizations related to Covid-19, with at least 2,753 patients in intensive care units statewide, accounting for 43 percent of the intensive care units beds available in the state.

 

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27 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Now after 1.5 years I see him again and he’s changed. He believes this is real but there is also some serious bullshit going on. He told me about Trudeau’s “Great Reset” quip.

I hope this is symbolic of what is happening amongst the general dunderheads. Anyone moderately sensible can smell a dead rat, and figure out what it means...

The real dunderheads are the ones who refuse a vaccine because of things they read on Instagram. 

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I fully expect this will take off. Some small businesses and diners here are wanting paperwork proof.  I own in a luxury 55+ building where I’m by far the youngest. Seniors are terrified and don’t want unvaccinated people around them or out in public at all.

How long before a major retail or fast food chain makes the move and when it happens, how many others will flock behind them doing the same overnight?

I see this as THE issue of autumn.

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On 8/5/2021 at 9:23 AM, Boges said:

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/08/05/quebec-vaccine-passport-system/

 

https://www.axios.com/new-york-coronavirus-vaccine-passports-mandates-e047dec9-d07a-484f-97ab-33afb6490049.html

 

 

Quebec really jumped the gun on this. They had announced plans to do it. But case counts under 200 don't really justify it yet. 

I guess it's assumed as school returns cases will skyrocket, as they did last year.

Ontario has not pledged to do this. But it's certainly preferable to another Lockdown. If unvaccinated people are fuelling another spike in Hospitalizations, it's certainly has to happen. 

This covid bullshit will never end when there are communist morons like Legault still around. They want to keep this covid plandemic bs going forever if they can. Communists like Legault are really enjoying their new found censorship and tyranny over we the sheeple. 

Stop trying to blame the non vaccinated people for any rise in numbers. You have no proof yourself that this is so, liberal conservative. You need to stop listening to those lying comrade politicians, the lying Pravda media, and those so called lying health experts. The non vaccinated people are not spreading anything. 

As the story goes, and according to the alternative media these days, it is the vaccinated people that are the ones now spreading covid. Many vaccinated people are still catching covid and many are now getting seriously ill and are dying from covid. It is we the non vaccinated that should fear those that have been vaccinated. They have become the super spreaders now and a danger to society and they need to be quarantined. 

No more lock downs and no vaccine passports. Whatever happened to freedom of choice in this country called communist Canada? Canada has truly become a nation of sheeple alright. They seem to believe everything that those mentioned above tell them without a question or challenge. They have a brain to be able to think and use but they prefer to let and allow those mentioned above to use their brain for them. Such stupid people indeed. ?

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Will be another interesting experiment to watch, Quebec with their passport vs Ontario without. 

You wonder how stupid people are to put up with this, and not challenge it. Dont forget the stupid a’s had their curfew, and a long long quarantine.

Who woulda thought those Frenchmen are actually a buncha limped dicked englishmen?

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On 8/9/2021 at 11:59 AM, Boges said:

The real dunderheads are the ones who refuse a vaccine because of things they read on Instagram. 

Well that’s a pity, but nothing ti do with me. I refuse it because of a little old thing called intellect.

I dont like to bear bad news but it is what it is. The fancy psudeovaccines are not living up to expectations. This CNN article indicates who the super-spreaders actually are. Everyone, it seems.

CDC shares 'pivotal discovery' on Covid-19 breakthrough infections

I’ll explian what that means, for those who do not habla.

No vaccine, get and transmit covid.

Vaccine, still get and transmit covid.

same same

You see it’s actually antibodies that matter, not the vaccine assholes. Maybe daily blood testing will be the answer.

That and heavy repeat injections. Go get yourselves mrna boosted every 3 months is next. This time right up the river Jordan.

 

 

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13 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

I’ll explian what that means, for those who do not habla.

No vaccine, get and transmit covid.

Vaccine, still get and transmit covid.

same same

You see it’s actually antibodies that matter, not the vaccine assholes. Maybe daily blood testing will be the answer.

That and heavy repeat injections. Go get yourselves mrna boosted every 3 months is next. This time right up the river Jordan.

You think you're being, somehow, intellectual by refusing to get vaccinated. 

Then you post an article about Breakthrough infections, completely missing the point that vaccines aren't designed to eliminate infections. They're meant to prevent severe illness and death! 

You don't think you'll get sick from COVID-19, fine. But if you do, which has become the fate of a lot Anti-Vaxxers in the past few months. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9875841/Covid-wipes-anti-vaxxer-family-Son-loses-father-73-mother-65-brother-40-virus.html

Even if you had been previously infected, you didn't get the Delta variant. 

And I hope you realize that Vaccine Passports, when/if we get it are meant to prevent ignorant Anti-Vaxxers, out of the Hospital, even if they don't want it. 

Edited by Boges
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27 minutes ago, Boges said:

You think you're being, somehow, intellectual by refusing to get vaccinated. 

Then you post an article about Breakthrough infections, completely missing the point that vaccines aren't designed to eliminate infections. They're meant to prevent severe illness and death! 

You don't think you'll get sick from COVID-19, fine. But if you do, which has become the fate of a lot Anti-Vaxxers in the past few months. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9875841/Covid-wipes-anti-vaxxer-family-Son-loses-father-73-mother-65-brother-40-virus.html

Even if you had been previously infected, you didn't get the Delta variant. 

And I hope you realize that Vaccine Passports, when/if we get it are meant to prevent ignorant Anti-Vaxxers, out of the Hospital, even if they don't want it. 

Speaking of those who don’t habla. Would not expect you two rabbits to come out of your holes willingly. No doubt it will take a lot of coaxing with a carrot, or some lettuce.

Thats why you insist on mandatory vaxing, but you dont even understand how vaccine immunization programs work. What you slaves are calling for is not necessary. Not here, and not under these circumstances.

The most fearful among us should not be dictating their terms. Intelligence is the only way out. That’s why you people should not be heard.

 

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30 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Speaking of those who don’t habla. Would not expect you two rabbits to come out of your holes willingly. No doubt it will take a lot of coaxing with a carrot, or some lettuce.

Thats why you insist on mandatory vaxing, but you dont even understand how vaccine immunization programs work. What you slaves are calling for is not necessary. Not here, and not under these circumstances.

The most fearful among us should not be dictating their terms. Intelligence is the only way out. That’s why you people should not be heard.

No one is advocating for mandatory vaccination. Though some private companies certainly are, as is their right. 

You pretending to be the intelligent one in this debate is textbook Dunning-Kruger. 

The carrot is not doing lockdowns again. Most intelligent people get that. Then there's you. . . 

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2 hours ago, Boges said:

And I hope you realize that Vaccine Passports, when/if we get it are meant to prevent ignorant Anti-Vaxxers, out of the Hospital, even if they don't want it. 

Been a while since I posted on this site but I can't figure out the rationale behind a vaccine passport now that PHE and the CDC have both indicated that double vaccinated people can get Delta and transmit it.  Assuming that's true then stopping unvaccinated people from attending large indoor gatherings wont stop transmission (as you accept above). 

As much as I can agree to your point that vaccine passports save unvaccinated people from themselves, I feel that you (like most) are missing a major point. Being vaccinated is one of many factors that lead to hospitalization from COVID. For example, an unvaccinated man in his 40s is a much lower risk for hospitalization than a double vaccinated man in his 80s.  Same can be said about an unvaccinated people verses vaccinated with multiple comorbidities.  I think it laughable to say that an unvaccinated 20-29 year old wouldn't be allowed in a restaurant because they are a 'risk' especially knowing their age groups accounts for 0.25% of the deaths even though they have incurred close to 20% of the cases. 

So if we are doing this to 'save themselves' them should we just lock all 60+ people in their rooms, especially since they account for 94% of all deaths?  Or how about anyone with hypertension or COPD. Should they not be allowed in restaurants?

My point all along is that people over 60 should be getting the vaccine as should people with comorbidities. People under this age or those who don't have comorbidities carry significantly less risk regardless of vaccination status. 

Add to this, the vaccines have shown they start to wane after 5-6 months for the elderly, hence the reason why Israel is doing booster shots.  Are the vaccine passports going to take date of vaccination into account? 

I agree that the vaccines are working on these individuals yet you still see significant number of vaccinated people in the hospital with this delta strain (40% in England for example) which I can only assume are the elderly and ones with comorbidities. 

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17 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

Been a while since I posted on this site but I can't figure out the rationale behind a vaccine passport now that PHE and the CDC have both indicated that double vaccinated people can get Delta and transmit it.  Assuming that's true then stopping unvaccinated people from attending large indoor gatherings wont stop transmission (as you accept above). 

As much as I can agree to your point that vaccine passports save unvaccinated people from themselves, I feel that you (like most) are missing a major point. Being vaccinated is one of many factors that lead to hospitalization from COVID. For example, an unvaccinated man in his 40s is a much lower risk for hospitalization than a double vaccinated man in his 80s.  Same can be said about an unvaccinated people verses vaccinated with multiple comorbidities.  I think it laughable to say that an unvaccinated 20-29 year old wouldn't be allowed in a restaurant because they are a 'risk' especially knowing their age groups accounts for 0.25% of the deaths even though they have incurred close to 20% of the cases. 

So if we are doing this to 'save themselves' them should we just lock all 60+ people in their rooms, especially since they account for 94% of all deaths?  Or how about anyone with hypertension or COPD. Should they not be allowed in restaurants?

My point all along is that people over 60 should be getting the vaccine as should people with comorbidities. People under this age or those who don't have comorbidities carry significantly less risk regardless of vaccination status. 

There are plenty of examples of young and healthy people experiencing severe illness from COVID-19. 

The Beta and Delta Variants have been making younger people far sicker than the original strain. 

Getting the vaccine is the best way to ensure one doesn't get sick. 

Quote

 

Add to this, the vaccines have shown they start to wane after 5-6 months for the elderly, hence the reason why Israel is doing booster shots.  Are the vaccine passports going to take date of vaccination into account? 

I agree that the vaccines are working on these individuals yet you still see significant number of vaccinated people in the hospital with this delta strain (40% in England for example) which I can only assume are the elderly and ones with comorbidities. 

 

The goal is to have COVID endemic in society and the more people with vaccine protection the less likely we see more deadly strains of the virus. 

The more that there are hold-outs from getting the vaccine, the most it'll still spread in the community. 

You'd hope we get to a point that only those with co-morbidities would need a booster, but right now COVID is still new enough that it can kill a healthy person who doesn't have any antibody protection. 

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10 minutes ago, Boges said:

There are plenty of examples of young and healthy people experiencing severe illness from COVID-19. 

Show me the numbers, not examples. I can show you examples of kids getting injured by the vaccine too but I think its fair to say that pulling a few examples does not prove a point. Even the WHO doesn't advise to vaccinate under 18 knowing the risk to benefit significantly diminishes with lower ages. 

 

15 minutes ago, Boges said:

The Beta and Delta Variants have been making younger people far sicker than the original strain. 

No. They have proven these strains are more transmissible but nothing has been proven to show these strains make people sicker. 

 

17 minutes ago, Boges said:

The goal is to have COVID endemic in society and the more people with vaccine protection the less likely we see more deadly strains of the virus. 

Delta has been around since August of 2020...well before any vaccination roll out. Lets assume the vaccines were all ready to go day one and could be administered globally in a short time....then and only then would we have a chance to stop viruses. The fact is that we already have a strain (Delta) that is transmissible among vaccinated people so the ability to stop mutants is now gone unless they create another vaccine and we go though this hopeless process again. The bottom line is a fully vaccinated person carries as much viral load now as an unvaccinated person, so mutant strains are inevitable. Eventually everyone will have seen a strain of this and we will become endemic. 

22 minutes ago, Boges said:

The more that there are hold-outs from getting the vaccine, the most it'll still spread in the community. 

You have seen the the reports from PHE and the CDC right? I assumed you had but maybe you haven't. Fully vaccinated people are spreading it just as much as unvaccinated. Being vaccinated does not stop the spread for this strain. The Delta is a game changer and people need to become more informed of what the vaccine can and can't do. 

 

25 minutes ago, Boges said:

You'd hope we get to a point that only those with co-morbidities would need a booster, but right now COVID is still new enough that it can kill a healthy person who doesn't have any antibody protection. 

So can the vaccine. Again....numbers matter.  Most posts of unvaccinated young people dying are usually obese people. (not trying to be rude but its true). Other posts don't actually list if there were comorbidities or not. There are some surprise deaths among totally healthy people but those numbers are ridiculously low (comparable to deaths caused by the vaccine).  If you have time, google "healthy man (or woman) dies of flu". It happens every year that regular healthy people die from it. Covid is no different. 

This issue is not simple and to truly evaluate it you need more data than we are being presented. Interestingly enough, the province of Ontario is now tracking hospitalizations by vaccination status.  https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

At this point 66% of people in the hospital are unvaccinated but all the people in ICU are vaccinated (partlially or fully). I would like to see more of this data as this goes on.

 

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38 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

This issue is not simple and to truly evaluate it you need more data than we are being presented. Interestingly enough, the province of Ontario is now tracking hospitalizations by vaccination status.  https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data

At this point 66% of people in the hospital are unvaccinated but all the people in ICU are vaccinated (partlially or fully). I would like to see more of this data as this goes on.

 

I saw that too. And had to do digging about the rationale. 

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/experts-warn-that-new-covid-19-data-on-vaccination-status-may-not-show-whole-picture-1.5541781

Quote

 

“If 99 per cent of people are vaccinated in the province, of course when people are admitted to hospital, you are going to see a lot of vaccinated people, because the number of unvaccinated people is so small,” Dr. Chakrabarti said.

Neuroscientist and science communicator Samantha Yammine echoed that sentiment.

“What’s missing from the story is there are way more vaccinated people,” she said. “So the denominators are really different.”

Yammine said it’s crucial to remember that millions of people in Ontario are fully vaccinated, which means, “as more people get vaccinated, you may see more people test positive.”

 

With the level of vaccination in Ontario, the pool of vaccinated people is much greater. 

At this point the Hospitalization rate is completely manageable. So it doesn't matter. But these are the figures that need to be tracked. 

And yes, there is evidence that Delta is making Younger people much sicker. 

https://californianewstimes.com/is-the-delta-variant-making-younger-adults-sicker-quicker-health-news-firstpost/468272/

Quote

 

Doctors working at COVID hotspots across the country say patients in their hospitals are different from the patients they saw last year. Most of the time, they are not vaccinated. New arrivals are young, often in their twenties or thirties. And they are sick and seem to be getting worse more rapidly than last year’s younger patients.

Doctors have created a new phrase to describe them: “younger, sicker, faster”. Many doctors who treat them

 

Anti Vaxxers have not evolved their thinking on this virus from the Original strain which overwhelmingly effected high risk populations. 

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27 minutes ago, Boges said:

With the level of vaccination in Ontario, the pool of vaccinated people is much greater. 

Yes I agree with that rationale to a point. If you have 90% vaccination rate then you should expect a higher number of people who catch it and a higher number in the hospital. We saw that in England and Israel. On the latest PHE bulletin they show that 742 people have died from Delta since its arrival in February. Of that 253 were unvaccinated, 489 had some vaccination of some type. Does this show the vaccine doesn't work...no. It shows that the elderly and immunocompromised people are going to struggle with this regardless of their vaccination status (still a good idea to get it but ultimately it may not do anything for you). Of the 742 deaths, 71 were under the age of 50 with 48 being unvaccinated. So again....no guarantee that a vaccine will save you if you are young either. Multiple factors involved here, not just vaccination status. (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1009243/Technical_Briefing_20.pdf)

 

39 minutes ago, Boges said:

And yes, there is evidence that Delta is making Younger people much sicker. 

https://californianewstimes.com/is-the-delta-variant-making-younger-adults-sicker-quicker-health-news-firstpost/468272/

This 'blog' is your proof of evidence? Even in your link I found this:

 

“I don’t think there’s any good evidence yet about whether it causes more serious illness,” said Dr. Adam Ratner, an associate professor of pediatrics and microbiology at New York University’s Grossman School of Medicine. rice field.

 

One thing I would caution you on is that what is happening in the US is NOT indicative of other places in the world. Again, I go back to the UK where they are on the backend of their Delta wave. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/vaccine-uptake-obesity-surging-child-covid-hospitalisations/

From the article:

In the UK the picture is very different, despite the country seeing a similar surge in delta cases.

Doctors here report only a modest increase in Covid related hospital admissions of children and are not pushing for changes to UK vaccine policy, which recommends that children with underlying conditions or vulnerable carers are vaccinated.

So why the difference? Are American doctors getting an early view of something that may later play out here, or do different social factors – such as vaccine uptake and obesity rates – better explain the divide?

Paediatric critical care consultant Dr Ruchi Sinha told the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Coronavirus (APPG) yesterday that the delta wave had not so far resulted in a higher proportion of children being admitted to hospital in the UK.

Indeed the incidence of the Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome (MIS-C) which Covid sparks in some children seemed to be at lower levels now than it had in previous waves, she said.

The majority of children being admitted to hospital with Covid in the UK had underlying conditions, notably obesity, she added.

“I do think we should be offering the vaccine to children who are vulnerable and more likely to suffer,” said Dr Sinha.

 

Vaccination status does not tell the story. In fact its only part of the story and people need to realize this before we further divide our country with vaccine passports. 

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The "blog" is re-publishing a New York Times story behind a pay wall. 

Ultimately I agree that younger/healthier people will generally fare better against COVID-19. But that's not an absolute. 

And if the goal is to mitigate serious illness, everyone should seek the vaccine. 

In Ontario, the Alpha Variant was causing many younger front-line workers in the GTA to get very sick. 

https://www.cp24.com/news/pandemic-s-third-wave-hits-people-in-their-20s-30s-with-more-illness-and-blame-1.5370882?cache=%2F7.609312

Quote

The message was quickly shot down by medical experts including Dr. Sumon Chakrabarti in Mississauga, Ont., who noted many of the most severely ill appear to be marginalized and essential workers in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s who work in congregate-work settings where the novel coronavirus spreads easily.

“People who work in factories... food processing plants, transport companies, warehouses - these people got hit in the first and second wave and they're getting hit even harder in the third wave,” Chakrabarti said Wednesday.

“Think about a 28-year-old guy working in Purolator, or working in a food processing plant hearing that. 'You're saying that I'm blowing it for you?' When we go into lockdown, which doesn't affect any of these essential services, these are the people that we are relying on for food, for supply, for health care.”

 

What's interesting is that people will risk getting the disease, because they're "healthy". But they're terrified of a vaccine that millions upon millions of people have taken without any, statistically relevant, serious side effects. 

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