Many defenseless civilians killed in Israeli brutal attacks and Arab retaliations.

[CITIZEN_2015]

When I checked in the forum. I was surprised to see that there is no thread about the recent flare up of conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. This conflict is going on for long time before even many of us were even born so may be people are tired of hearing it or maybe they have enough problems of their own with Covid and bad economy or maybe there are many pro-Israel members wishing silence trying not to publicize Israeli crimes but how can anyone remain indifference or silent when defenseless women and children are dying regardless of what nationality they may be?

Israeli air strikes on Gaza City flatten three buildings and kill at least 42 people on Sunday.

At least 192 people, including 58 children and 34 women, have been killed in the Gaza Strip since the latest violence began last Monday.

Israel has reported 10 dead, including two children.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/16/more-deaths-gaza-israel-launches-most-intense-raids-yet

This is madness. Enough with hate already!!

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

What would you like people to discuss? As you pointed out, this has been an on-again, off-again thing for decades. This one started over unrest over a decades long court battle over a dozen homes in Jerusalem and rioting around the Al Aqsa mosque. Hamas began firing rockets into Israeli towns and cities and Israel responded with bombings.

As to assigning guilt in this particular battle, well, Hamas started it. And while Israel is at least trying to aim for Hamas the Palestinians make no such efforf to distinguish between civilians and combatants and fire thousands of rockets at Israeli towns and cities.

It's also a fact Israel builds litsnof bomb shelters for its people while Hamas only builds them for its leaders because a high death toll among civilians makes Israel look bad. They know they're fighting a  propaganda war, after all. They can't hope to win the other kind.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Argus

[CITIZEN_2015]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

What would you like people to discuss? As you pointed out, this has been an on-again, off-again thing for decades. This one started over unrest over a decades long court battle over a dozen homes in Jerusalem and rioting around the Al Aqsa mosque. Hamas began firing rockets into Israeli towns and cities and Israel responded with bombings.

As to assigning guilt in this particular battle, well, Hamas started it. And while Israel is at least trying to aim for Hamas the Palestinians make no such efforf to distinguish between civilians and combatants and fire thousands of rockets at Israeli towns and cities.

It's also a fact Israel builds litsnof bomb shelters for its people while Hamas only builds them for its leaders because a high death toll among civilians makes Israel look bad. They know they're fighting a  propaganda war, after all. They can't hope to win the other kind.

Condemn the violence by both sides, Israelis in particular have murdered 20 times more with their advanced fighter jets against defenseless civilians. 

Lets also state the facts about why this latest conflict started. extremist Israelis settlers started it and the very right wing Israeli government as usual backed them up with heavy bombardments.

protests escalated over the threatened eviction of dozens of Palestinian families from the east Jerusalem neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah.

The families have been embroiled in a long legal battle with ideological Jewish settlers who seek to acquire property in crowded Palestinian neighborhoods just outside the Old City. Israel portrays it as a private real-estate dispute, but the families' plight has attracted global attention.

Also it is established that Hamas is a terrorist organization expected to have no sympathy for civilian lives but Israelis have proven again and again that they are not different. In fact they have proven to be a lot worse again and again. 

I have no sympathy for Arabs but when it comes to such as human suffering at the very least I can't remain indifference or support the wrong side or hide or distort the facts

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[Infidel Dog]

Actually the Biden regime started this one by taking pressure off Iran. 

Those missiles Hamas goons are firing into Israel aren't coming from Santa Claus...no matter how much some of those Iranian Mullahs look like him.

BTW about 20 of those dead Gaza citizens were killed by Hamas (Iranian) missile misfires.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

This one appears to be a fair description of the back and forth:

https://apnews.com/article/world-news-hamas-middle-east-israel-ad7d5a99e382dcdd3e5df45f33be1b43

[CITIZEN_2015]

9 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

This one appears to be a fair description of the back and forth:

https://apnews.com/article/world-news-hamas-middle-east-israel-ad7d5a99e382dcdd3e5df45f33be1b43

Your own link blames Israel for the start of this conflict.

Critics say heavy-handed Israeli police measures in and around Jerusalem’s Old City helped stoke nightly unrest. Another flashpoint has been the east Jerusalem neighborhood of Sheikh Jarrah, where dozens of Palestinians are under threat of eviction by Jewish settlers.

Your own link blames Israel for the start of this conflict.

As for Biden administration and Iran, what the hell did Trump achieved by his so called tough policy against mullahs other than suffering on defenseless Iran nation and a very unstable region.  And at the end he was begging to Iranians to come back to negotiating table and when American troops in Iraq came under heavy Iranian missile attack, he froze and hid in the corner scared to his pants to respond. By the way this is an Arab Israeli conflict. Iran is neither Arab or Israeli.

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[Argus]

On 5/17/2021 at 2:25 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Condemn the violence by both sides, Israelis in particular have murdered 20 times more with their advanced fighter jets against defenseless civilians. 

You are blaming the Israelis for winning. And for building bomb shelters and anti-missile defenses.

Quote

Lets also state the facts about why this latest conflict started. extremist Israelis settlers started it and

Nope. There has been a court case going back and forth through the court system for decades which concerns houses in East Jerusalem which were owned by Jews but taken over by Jordan after they invaded. The argument is whether they leased or sold them to their present Arab owners. If so they still belong to the people who owned it before Jordan invaded.

Quote

the very right wing Israeli government as usual backed them up with heavy bombardments.

Um, nope. Israel didnt start bombing till Hamas started firing rockets at them. This is established and not disputed.

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Argus

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Actually the Biden regime started this one by taking pressure of Iran. 

Biden derangement syndrome. ?

[-TSS-]

Isn't there some Jewish sect who don't support the state of Israel because they view it that Israel is something like a heavenly kingdom and not a real country in this world?

[Aristides]

Netanyahu needs a distraction from his legal problems.

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

taken over by Jordan after they invaded.

 

I didn't know Jordan invaded Israel. You sure have a talent for distorting the facts by 180 degrees.

[CITIZEN_2015]

6 hours ago, Argus said:

You are blaming the Israelis for winning. 

 

I am blaming Israel for killing not winning. I am blaming them for a totally disproportionate retaliation as they have proved again and again that they are worse than terrorists that they claim to fight against.  

Of course they can win against defenseless unarmed civilians. It is not hard or takes courage to win against the weak and defenseless. They lost against Iran in spite of decades of threats of attacking Iran's nuclear facilities they never dare to make good on their threats because Iran was militarily strong and could retaliate with thousands of missiles landing on Israelis cities not to mention the Iranian colonies all around Israel in Lebanon and Syria and Palestine. They would have never stricken civilian targets so massively if those civilians had an organized strong army enabled to crush Israel into pieces. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by CITIZEN_2015

[CITIZEN_2015]

8 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Actually the Biden regime started this one by taking pressure of Iran. 

 

Why don't we hear the cause from former speaker of Israeli Parliament?

It was the outgrowth of years of blockades and restrictions in Gaza, decades of occupation in the West Bank, and decades more of discrimination against Arabs within the state of Israel, said Avraham Burg, a former speaker of the Israeli Parliament and former chairman of the World Zionist Organization.

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

Netanyahu needs a distraction from his legal problems.

Netanyahu is a war criminal. So are the leaders of Hamas.

[Infidel Dog]

6 hours ago, Argus said:

Biden derangement syndrome. ?

Kinda childish but what the Hell...I'll play...

So now I call you a Biden cultist right? Isn't that the way it goes? 

[Infidel Dog]

31 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Why don't we hear the cause from former speaker of Israeli Parliament?

It was the outgrowth of years of blockades and restrictions in Gaza, decades of occupation in the West Bank, and decades more of discrimination against Arabs within the state of Israel, said Avraham Burg, a former speaker of the Israeli Parliament and former chairman of the World Zionist Organization.

I had to look that one up to see who you were talking about. Avraham Burg, right.

Started his political career as a left wing activist and has been involved in a number of dodgy enterprises since including voter fraud...typical.

Yeah, sorry. Not accepting him as an authoritative source. Definitely not unbiased or non-partisan.

But he has an opinion and so do you. Good for you two.

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

Now here's mine. 

No, the AP does not give definitive cause to the startup of this latest round of conflict. It talks of a number of hotspots where heightened tensions have recently led to protest and even violence including Sheik Jarrah and the Al Aqsa mosque.

It also mentions how this started during the month of Ramadan. Isn't it an amazing coincidence how increasing tension leading to violence always seems to start up during the month of Ramadan? 

But this time Hamas got the OK from Iran because the pressure was no longer on Mullah-town from the Trumpster so they had their Hamas goon squad start firing Iranian missiles into Israel.

Happy Bombadan, but you reap what you sow.

Do stupid things, win stupid prizes.

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[DogOnPorch]

11 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I didn't know Jordan invaded Israel. You sure have a talent for distorting the facts by 180 degrees.

 

You can play name games I suppose...but that's what Jordan did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordanian_annexation_of_the_West_Bank

[Infidel Dog]

Hamas and Iran use the civilians of Gaza as human shields. Israel gives warning when it's going to take out a Hamas target when it can. This is not infallible. There can still be collateral damage to civilians. How many actual lives are lost in Gaza can never be known. The stats keepers of Hamas are known liars. Hamas videos of victims are most often pure Hollywood.

"

Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad have fired nearly 3000 rockets into Israel since May 10th. In that time, Israel has already reported at least nine dead, including five women and two children. Israel has responded forcefully with hundreds of air strikes in Gaza. The strikes have killed senior Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad leaders and destroyed terrorist military and intelligence facilities, command headquarters, terrorist officers’ homes, and attack tunnel networks. “No Hamas officer, high or low, should feel safe over- or under- ground,” an Israeli army spokesman warned Saturday night. “Hamas will think 500 times before ever again going to war against Israel.”

The Palestinian terrorists are armed and funded by the fanatical Islamist Iranian regime. The Biden administration will not succeed in ending the violence in the long term simply by focusing on negotiating a ceasefire of the current hostilities. The Biden administration should focus instead on cutting off the terrorists’ support line at its source. Biden must abandon any negotiations with the Iranian regime and any consideration of sanctions relief that could potentially buttress Iran’s ability to bankroll Hamas and its other terrorist proxies.

Moral clarity requires an unambiguous acknowledgement that Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorist groups, supported by the terrorist-sponsoring Islamic Republic of Iran, are solely responsible for the violent rampage spiraling out of control. The terrorists must be held criminally to account for the dual war crimes of targeting Israel’s civilian population and launching their rockets from within Gaza’s civilian neighborhoods and institutions. The Iranian regime must be held criminally to account as the terrorists’ sponsor, aider and abettor. "

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2021/05/terrorists-fire-thousands-rockets-israeli-joseph-klein/

 

[Argus]

17 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Kinda childish but what the Hell...I'll play...

So now I call you a Biden cultist right? Isn't that the way it goes? 

It would if I was a fan of his. I'm not. I don't think he's very good. I don't think he should have been a candidate. I gave my suggestion for a candidate  years ago, and he meets almost none of the requirements.

Doesn't mean he's not infinitely better than the orange shitstain, of course.

[Argus]

22 hours ago, -TSS- said:

Isn't there some Jewish sect who don't support the state of Israel because they view it that Israel is something like a heavenly kingdom and not a real country in this world?

Yup. Israel has a lot of Jewish fanatics. In fact, many decades ago, they granted special dispensation to the Haradi, who are this ultra-religious group who do nothing but pray all day and have sex all night. They were considered holy men, and they literally spent their lives learning about the Torah and praying. And having babies. Lots of babies. So now here we are and they make up 10% or so of the population. They don't work. They don't join the army. They're on welfare. And they pray. Oh, and they vote for extremist religious parties which often hold the balance of power in Israel's fractured parliament, thus making it almost impossible to craft a sane policy with regard to the Palestinians.

[Argus]

20 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I didn't know Jordan invaded Israel. You sure have a talent for distorting the facts by 180 degrees.

You have a talent for not reading properly. They invaded the territory which had been set aside for Palestinians (the West Bank), which included East Jerusalem. That was not, properly speaking, Israel, at that time. Not that they didn't TRY to invade Israel, along with the rest of the Arab League. They failed at this, however. And years later, during another war, Israel conquered the land Jordan had taken, including East Jerusalem. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Argus

[Argus]

18 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I am blaming Israel for killing not winning. I am blaming them for a totally disproportionate retaliation as they have proved again and again that they are worse than terrorists that they claim to fight against.  

In fact, they have generally proven exactly the opposite. They don't try to maximize civilian casualties. If they did there would be far, far, far, FAR more of them. Hamas, on the other hand, does try to maximize civilian casualties - on both sides. They try to kill as many Israelis as possible, and they like having a lot of their own civilian casualties because it makes soft headed westerners go "Boo! Hoo! Those nasty Jews!'

A total of some 5400 Palestinians have been killed in the various fights with Israel in the last 20 years according to the UN, of which perhaps 50%-60% were civilians. Compare this to the 200,000 dead civilians in Syria, 25,000 of them children. Notice the difference?

But those people weren't killed by Jews, so you don't have to worry about it.

Quote

Of course they can win against defenseless unarmed civilians. It is not hard or takes courage to win against the weak and defenseless.

Israel has won, repeatedly, against the entire armed might of the combined Arab nations of the middle east, often outnumbered ten to one. And anyone other than an idiot ought to realize that if Hamas can fire thousands of rockets into Israel (Canada doesn't have thousands of rockets) they're far from unarmed.

Quote

They lost against Iran in spite of decades of threats of attacking Iran's nuclear facilities they never dare to make good on their threats because Iran was militarily strong and could retaliate with thousands of missiles landing on Israelis cities not to

Israel has never been at war with Iran, despite the fact Iran routinely threatens to destroy, annihilate, murder, massacre, slaughter and otherwise eliminate Israel from the face of the Earth. Israel does watch Iran's work on its nuclear weapons, though, and I have little doubt if they thought they were near getting one they would take further action. And why shouldn't they when the Iranian leaders have repeatedly said they want to get nuclear weapons so they can use them on Israel?

In fact, a former Iranian president is quoted as saying that as soon as they have nuclear weapons they should use them on Israel. Because even though millions of Muslims would die in the retaliation, it would be worth it, since Muslims are spread out and most would survive, while Israel would be gone.

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Argus

[Argus]

18 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Why don't we hear the cause from former speaker of Israeli Parliament?

It was the outgrowth of years of blockades and restrictions in Gaza,

You might spare a thought as to how, despite the blockades, Hamas manages to get its hands on thousands and thousands of rockets. Ponder the amount of time and effort and money which goes into that vs, say, smuggling in food or medicine or something else. Consider how many weapons, and heavier weapons Hamas would have if it WEREN'T for the blockades.

 

 

[Infidel Dog]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

It would if I was a fan of his. I'm not. I don't think he's very good. I don't think he should have been a candidate. I gave my suggestion for a candidate  years ago, and he meets almost none of the requirements.

Doesn't mean he's not infinitely better than the orange shitstain, of course.

This wasn't the first time I've seen you defend him.

I guess eventually though, even you will have to admit some day it's hard to believe the guy ever won anything. (Myself, I still say, impossible.)