Increased Immigration not needed, will hurt workers

[AntiConservative]

8 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

How many of them have sent their daughters abroad to be married to a man they have never met, or have their genitals mutilated?

I don't know either.

You make it sound like a large percentage of Muslims in Canada, want to have their daughters clitorises be removed. Maybe you should conduct some research. Go to the local Mosque, and ask some of the members, if they want to see a member of their family undergo Female-Genital-Mutilation. The gap between your misconceptions and realty, is astonishing.

Edited March 6, 2021 by AntiConservative

[Right To Left]

On 3/4/2021 at 3:32 PM, Argus said:

I realize this might be a shocking idea to the ludicrous left, but a lot of people care more about what's in a person's mind than what skin is on their back.

And those people would not be rightwing conservatives, who taught us that white Europeans were superior to other 'darker' races of mankind, and so had the right to move in and push natives off their lands, as they set up their settler colonies around the world. 

Quote

 The far left only cares about race, of course, and considers that far more important than anything involving character, education, skill, values or culture.

NOOO, anyone left of rightwing who plays the race card is just patronizing poc's for votes and like rightwingers, isn't interested in dark people beyond the elites among black and brown people. In the US, they were referred to as "The Talented Tenth" -- as white northern philanthropists referred to the local business and ruling classes among America's black population centers. 

And, more than 100 years later, the Democratic? Party applies the same old coercion and fear tactics to win the vast majority of African American votes, BUT if you pay attention, does NOTHING for them beyond symbolism. For instance, the same "talented tenth" black mayors of Washington and Atlanta who put giant Black Lives Matter street murals in downtown centers, increased police funding and condemned BLM demonstrators and those who demanded large cuts to police budgets to maintain other city services. 

Once again, learn to look past the headlines at what's in the details!

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, AntiConservative said:

You make it sound like a large percentage of Muslims in Canada, want to have their daughters clitorises be removed. Maybe you should conduct some research. Go to the local Mosque, and ask some of the members, if they want to see a member of their family undergo Female-Genital-Mutilation. The gap between your misconceptions and realty, is astonishing.

No I don't.  I said I didn't know.

And I wouldn't care if any of them wanted to.  Nothing wrong with wanting something.  I'd make it clear that the difference between wanting to and actually doing something about it would mean the difference between sticking around and deportation. 

I'd make that clear at the point of entry.  For anyone.  So no racism involved.

That's why I liked the PC's Zero Tolerance for Barbaric Cultural Practices Act.  Applied to everyone. 

[blackbird]

49 minutes ago, AntiConservative said:

I havn't persecuted any Christians. My parents are Muslim. I go to the Mosque a few times a year. It's time to judge people on their actions, instead of their religious background. As far as racism is concerned, it's a double-edge sword. Treat people the way you want to be treated. How would you like to visit our countries, and see creepy locals calling you "Whitey". You wouldn't feel comfortable. No one wants to be singled our because of the colour of their skin, or religious background. I don't preach any of that nonsense. I own a construction company. Three of my employees are Irish-Canadians. My father tought me everything I needed to know about construction back in Syria. Now I support seven employees. Five of them were born in Canada. I think i'm helping your economy.

Well, that's fine.  I don't believe in being racist myself.  You make much out of the subject of skin colour.  I don't think skin colour means anything.  But what people believe does mean something in today's world.  But just curious why you call yourself "AntiConservative".  Conservatives have many good reasons for opposing the Liberals and NDP, if that is who you support.  Conservatives support free enterprise and oppose Socialism.  If you have a construction company, the Conservative Party would be your strongest supporter.  They strongly support small business and free enterprise.  Liberals and NDP, no so much.  The NDP and Liberals are more into virtue signaling about how much they support diversity and minorities, but a lot of it is just vote-getting propaganda.    NDP and Liberals falsely accuse Conservatives of being racist.   I have been a Conservative many years, but don't agree with everything they support these days.  I am not sure I will be able to give them much support in the immediate future as they support abortion and O'Toole sounds more like a liberal.  As a King James Version Bible believer myself, we probably agree on a few things.  We believe there is one God who created the universe.  A lot of people don't even believe that much.  I find the NDP and Liberals totally opposed to Biblical truth.  Only Jesus can save a person and give eternal life through believing in him.

Edited March 6, 2021 by blackbird

[Right To Left]

On 3/4/2021 at 3:23 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1. Regardless of whether you agree with the idea, it is bought into by business and economic orthodoxy, so this is to me what is driving immigration. 
2. A lot won't agree with you here.  I would say that having cosmopolitan ideas, and especially entrepreneurship is something we can use,though.

1. Hasn't this been the main source of the Republican Party's and conservative movements' schizophrenia on the topic of immigration! GOP business leaders want lots of immigrants and encourage refugee flows also, to prevent wages from rising and union organizing, because it helps drive down the cost of labour. 

BUT of course, the knuckle-dragging common louts who make up rightwing activism don't benefit unless they at least own a small business, but they mostly just see dark people moving in to town and becoming more of a presence. So, they represent Fortress America, and want that wall on the border completed. 

Since it appears they have won...or maybe the business class republicans have fled to the Democrat Party now that no longer represent anything that average workers care about, so now the militia crowd is all that's left of the GOP.

2. I see cosmopolitanism as an openness to other perspectives and other cultures. I see that as a net benefit that has little to do with capitalism and expanding business.  This has been a general principle since the time when the first large communities or cities were coming together thousands of years ago. And of course, all that tolerant thinking can go flying out the window fast whenever times get tough...as they inevitably do. But, it's interesting to note that the very first large settlements of Asia Minor (Catalhoyuk) beginning around 7000 b.c., exhibit anthropological evidence of being multiracial for centuries until they experienced hard times and invasions from marauding bands of warriors much later.  Catalhoyuk never showed much evidence of violence that became much more common later when populations grew larger and settled agriculture became the standard model for most people. It was a 'city' of at least 8000 people at its height, that grew together in an unplanned, haphazard manner, with no walls surrounding the settlement, or fortifications. Over a period of many millennia, people moved in from all directions until the city was abandoned thousands of years later...likely because of prolonged droughts. 

So, when times are good, people feel more relaxed and open to outsiders who are different than them, and turn insular and violent during hard times......same old, same old! That seems to be the direction we are heading today, so I would say that rightwingers have little to worry about! 

[AntiConservative]

32 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Well, that's fine.  I don't believe in being racist myself.  You make much out of the subject of skin colour.  I don't think skin colour means anything.  But what people believe does mean something in today's world.  But just curious why you call yourself "AntiConservative".  Conservatives have many good reasons for opposing the Liberals and NDP, if that is who you support.  Conservatives support free enterprise and oppose Socialism.  If you have a construction company, the Conservative Party would be your strongest supporter.  They strongly support small business and free enterprise.  Liberals and NDP, no so much.  The NDP and Liberals are more into virtue signaling about how much they support diversity and minorities, but a lot of it is just vote-getting propaganda.    NDP and Liberals falsely accuse Conservatives of being racist.   I have been a Conservative many years, but don't agree with everything they support these days.  I am not sure I will be able to give them much support in the immediate future as they support abortion and O'Toole sounds more like a liberal.  As a King James Version Bible believer myself, we probably agree on a few things.  We believe there is one God who created the universe.  A lot of people don't even believe that much.  I find the NDP and Liberals totally opposed to Biblical truth.  Only Jesus can save a person and give eternal life through believing in him.

Why I don't like the conservatives

They don't have enough support for unions or workplace safety

They don't support progressive wages

The new conservatives are becoming more interested in identity politics, than government efficiency. They rather scapegoat immigrants, than do what conservatives use to do best.

They promote xenophobia, instead of acknowledging the good things about diversity.

They're stuck in the past.

They don't take environmental protection seriously.

They do the bare minimum for Indigenous Canadians. When there is a problem with their drinking water. It seems like the NDP, are the only ones taking it seriously.

They have seriously cut funding for Autism, and people with disabilities.

They have promoted wars in the past. Just look at Harpers trigger-happy desire to join the Iraq war. How many Canadians would have died, and how greater would our deficit be, if we had joined that war?

Edited March 6, 2021 by AntiConservative

[-TSS-]

At least America has Mexico and Central-America south of its border but there is no easily explainable immigration into Canada. All immigration into Canada is something which Canada somehow wants.

[blackbird]

12 minutes ago, AntiConservative said:

Why I don't like the conservatives

They don't have enough support for unions or workplace safety

They don't support progressive wages

The new conservatives are becoming more interested in identity politics, than government efficiency. They rather scapegoat immigrants, than do what conservatives use to do best.

They don't take environmental protection seriously

They have seriously cut funding for Autism, and people with disabilities

They have promoted wars in the past. Just look at Harpers trigger-happy desire to join the Iraq war. How many Canadians would have died, and how greater would our deficit be, if we had joined that war.

That's fine. You can like them or not.  I was in unions all my life and a member of the Conservative party for 29 years and never found them to be anti union or workplace safety.  Not sure what you mean by progressive wages.  The federal government pays their civil servants well with all kinds of benefits that private industry workers don't have.  And they don't control wages in private companies.  That is determined by private industry and provincial governments set minimum wages.  Unions also negotiate wages, not the federal government.

Actually you are incorrect about identity politics.  It is the Trudeau and the Liberals who are into identity politics.  Conservatives generally stay away from that subject.  Everyone should be under the same laws.  It is Trudeau who said Canadians committed genocide against first nations, which is a ridiculous statement.  He is always making false statements to fool the people into thinking he is some kind of champion for minorities.

The federal government has nothing to do with autism and people with disabilities.  Health care falls under provincial jurisdiction.  I know the provincial government spends billions of dollars on the public health care system.  It is a large part of provincial spending.

I don't know what wars Conservatives have "promoted".  That sounds like fiction.  The Conservatives did support the war on terrorism in the world because it was necessary to stop violent extremists which kill a lot of innocent people as in 9-11.  Do you think Canada should have gone to Afghanistan to fight against the terrorists?

Do you support illegal border crossers coming into Canada?  They are jumping the queue and not following the legal immigration system.  Lot of conservatives oppose illegal border crossing.  Trudeau encourages it.

Edited March 6, 2021 by blackbird

[AntiConservative]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I don't know what wars Conservatives have "promoted".  That sounds like fiction.  The Conservatives did support the war on terrorism in the world because it was necessary to stop violent extremists which kill a lot of innocent people as in 9-11.  Do you think Canada should have gone to Afghanistan to fight against the terrorists?

Most of the Hijackers were born in Saudi Arabia. Why wasn't Saudi Arabia held accountable for harboring extremist?

[blackbird]

Just now, AntiConservative said:

Most of the Hijackers were born in Saudi Arabia. Why wasn't Saudi Arabia held accountable for harboring extremist?

Good question.  I think al Qaida is an international organization, not supported by the Saudi Arabia government.  They were training in Afghanistan I believe and led by bin Laden.  So there wasn't much the Saudi government could have done to stop them. 

[AntiConservative]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Good question.  I think al Qaida is an international organization, not supported by the Saudi Arabia government.  They were training in Afghanistan I believe and led by bin Laden.  So there wasn't much the Saudi government could have done to stop them. 

Well some of the most screwed up Muslims come from Saudi Arabia. I hate how the west coddles them, yet promoted the civil war in Syria, and demoralizes the people of Iran. If it wasn't for Hillary Clinton and her Arab Spring, we would have never had our civil war.

Edited March 6, 2021 by AntiConservative

[blackbird]

7 minutes ago, AntiConservative said:

Well some of the most screwed up Muslims come from Saudi Arabia. I hate how the west coddles them, yet promoted the civil war in Syria, and demoralizes the people of Iran. If it wasn't for Hillary Clinton and her Arab Spring, we would have never had our civil war.

OK, well to be honest I don't know anything about the civil war in Syria.  Don't know what Hillary Clinton had to do with the Arab Spring.  Not sure what all that accomplished.  I never heard of the west promoting the war in Syria.  Wasn't there a number of groups involved there.  They seem to have a lot of wars in the middle east.  But that is a whole different subject.  Back to immigration.  I don't agree with allowing a lot of immigration from countries that don't share our culture or beliefs.  We are a country built on Judeo-Christian civilization.  If you came here, I hope you will support that.  The Bible supports respect for the rights in the individual.  We have human rights and democracy which most countries in other parts of world don't have if you follow my thinking.

[AntiConservative]

11 minutes ago, blackbird said:

OK, well to be honest I don't know anything about the civil war in Syria.  Don't know what Hillary Clinton had to do with the Arab Spring.  Not sure what all that accomplished.  I never heard of the west promoting the war in Syria.  Wasn't there a number of groups involved there.  They seem to have a lot of wars in the middle east.  But that is a whole different subject.  Back to immigration.  I don't agree with allowing a lot of immigration from countries that don't share our culture or beliefs.  We are a country built on Judeo-Christian civilization.  If you came here, I hope you will support that.  The Bible supports respect for the rights in the individual.  We have human rights and democracy which most countries in other parts of world don't have if you follow my thinking.

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton though it was a good idea to fund militia groups who were protesting their governments policies. When the government tried to clamp down, they made it seem like the government was persecuting innocent protestors. This gave them justification for the Air Strikes in Lybia, which led to their Civil War. Once Gaddafi was killed, they switched over to helping destabilize Syria. Hillary Clinton helped pit one group of protestors against another, which escolated into an all-out civil war. If it wasn't for western interference, our civil war would have never happened.

Edited March 7, 2021 by AntiConservative

[myata]

Maybe it would help to ask a couple of straight questions, to clarify the direction of the discussion? If immigration is a policy beyond moral obligation like refuge, then it must have a purpose. A purpose would mean, in a democracy, solving a problem for the citizens.

And so, what problem would massive immigration solve for the citizens? (we already discussed the bureaucracy that runs the country, and its interests aren't necessarily the same). And is it certain that it cannot be solved by any other means? And if so, who have attempted and when, any different means of solving these problems?

[blackbird]

6 minutes ago, AntiConservative said:

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton though it was a good idea to fund militia groups who were protesting their governments policies. When the government tried to clamp down, they made it seem like the government was persecuting innocent protestors. This gave them justification for the Air Strikes in Lybia, which led to their Civil War. Once Gaddafi was killed, they switched over to helping destabilize Syria. They purposingly got the protestors fired-up, which escolated into an all-out civil war.

I have no knowledge of all that, so can't really comment.  I don't know if that is really true.  There is also a lot false information around and you have to be careful.  I am not a fan of Obama and Hillary Clinton.  They are globalist elite.

But if you came over with the 60 or 70 thousand Syrians Trudeau brought in around 2015 and later, you are very fortunate.  As I said, my interest is with God and Biblical truth.  That is what matters most.  Most people don't seem to believe in it or even in God and are facing a lost eternity, maybe in hell.  The only salvation is found in the New Testament and gospel of Jesus Christ.  I hope you will read the New Testament and find out how to be saved.  Most Canadians that don't believe might not be saved and have turned their backs on God and the Bible.  Maybe some immigrants have more of an open mind. I hope so.

Edited March 7, 2021 by blackbird

[AntiConservative]

11 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I have no knowledge of all that, so can't really comment.  I don't know if that is really true.  There is also a lot false information around and you have to be careful.  I am not a fan of Obama and Hillary Clinton.  They are globalist elite.

Here's Hillary Clinton celebrating her own war crimes. Did it have anything to do with your visit? "I'm sure it did."

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by AntiConservative

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

How many of them have sent their daughters abroad to be married to a man they have never met, or have their genitals mutilated?

I don't know either.

1.  FGM is illegal in Canada, whether one has it done in country or out-of-country.  Canadian authorities could do a much better job at enforcing it, I believe.  On the other hand, I have no information about how many Canadian females have had that done to them.

2.  FGM is not a Muslim issue; it's a cultural issue.  It always comes up when Muslims are identified as "not wanted in Canada", but Christians (and others) also practice FGM if they come from a region of the world where FGM is practiced.  If the argument were ever "We don't want people whose culture condones FGM", it would at least not be islamophobic.

3.  Many cultures practice arranged marriages, including Chinese and Japanese cultures; it's not limited to Muslims (or South Asians).  

Some cultures are are more supportive of "forced" marriage, which might be what you are referring to rather than arranged marriages.  Neither Islam, nor Muslim culture forces marriage; if a woman (or man) does not want the union selected by the parents, then they don't have to marry.  Of course, one can find examples of Muslim girls being forced to marry, but that is not representative of the culture, just as a shotgun wedding carried out in rural America does not represent American culture.

 

 

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

Why are you so dumb, dialamah?

If I were dumb, you wouldn't respond to me.   

[blackbird]

6 minutes ago, AntiConservative said:

Here's Hillary Clinton celebrating her own war crimes. Did it have anything to do with your visit? "I'm sure it did."

 

I sure glad she lost the election in 2016. But that video just has a few words pulled out of larger conversations and so it doesn't really tell much.  But I don't support her anyway.

 

[AntiConservative]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

I sure glad she lost the election in 2016. But that video just has a few words pulled out of larger conversations and so it doesn't really tell much.  But I don't support her anyway.

 

It was an election between the worlds greatest narcasist, and a war criminal. Pick Your Poison. This is why I sometimes vote independant.

[blackbird]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

1.  FGM is illegal in Canada, whether one has it done in country or out-of-country.  Canadian authorities could do a much better job at enforcing it, I believe.  On the other hand, I have no information about how many Canadian females have had that done to them.

2.  FGM is not a Muslim issue; it's a cultural issue.  It always comes up when Muslims are identified as "not wanted in Canada", but Christians (and others) also practice FGM if they come from a region of the world where FGM is practiced.  If the argument were ever "We don't want people whose culture condones FGM", it would at least not be islamophobic.

3.  Many cultures practice arranged marriages, including Chinese and Japanese cultures; it's not limited to Muslims (or South Asians).  

Some cultures are are more supportive of "forced" marriage, which might be what you are referring to rather than arranged marriages.  Neither Islam, nor Muslim culture forces marriage; if a woman (or man) does not want the union selected by the parents, then they don't have to marry.  Of course, one can find examples of Muslim girls being forced to marry, but that is not representative of the culture, just as a shotgun wedding carried out in rural America does not represent American culture.

 

 

No, you are way off base.  FGM is practiced on millions of Muslim girls in Muslim countries.  Why try to twist the truth and say is is practiced by Christians  There are no Christians in the west who practice FGM.  Now it is possible it is practiced on some Christians in Muslim countries as a cultural thing, but it is certainly not a Christian teaching, but it is mainly a Muslim thing to try to control girls and women.  It could be partly cultural but it is still mainly in Islamic countries.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, dialamah said:

1.  FGM is illegal in Canada, whether one has it done in country or out-of-country.  Canadian authorities could do a much better job at enforcing it, I believe.  On the other hand, I have no information about how many Canadian females have had that done to them.

2.  FGM is not a Muslim issue; it's a cultural issue.  It always comes up when Muslims are identified as "not wanted in Canada", but Christians (and others) also practice FGM if they come from a region of the world where FGM is practiced.  If the argument were ever "We don't want people whose culture condones FGM", it would at least not be islamophobic.

3.  Many cultures practice arranged marriages, including Chinese and Japanese cultures; it's not limited to Muslims (or South Asians).  

Some cultures are are more supportive of "forced" marriage, which might be what you are referring to rather than arranged marriages.  Neither Islam, nor Muslim culture forces marriage; if a woman (or man) does not want the union selected by the parents, then they don't have to marry.  Of course, one can find examples of Muslim girls being forced to marry, but that is not representative of the culture, just as a shotgun wedding carried out in rural America does not represent American culture.

 

 

1) Yeah, I know.  I agree with you on the rest.  Deportation for anyone found guilty would be my solution.

2) Yeah, I know.  I agree with you on the rest.  Deportation for anyone found guilty would be my solution.

3) Yeah, I know.  I'm only against arranged marriages if any of the participants is too.

Yeah, I know.  I don't care if it's a Muslim or a non-Muslim.  One can find an awful lot of examples of Muslim girls being forced to marry (or non-Muslims, if you want) so if you don't think it represents certain cultures that's up to you.  We have to differ somewhere, or what's the point in arguing?

Edit> BTW, when I say deportation, I just mean for the male.  His wife and small children are welcome to stay.

Edited March 7, 2021 by bcsapper

[AntiConservative]

9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

No, you are way off base.  FGM is practiced on millions of Muslim girls in Muslim countries.  Why try to twist the truth and say is is practiced by Christians  There are no Christians in the west who practice FGM.  Now it is possible it is practiced on some Christians in Muslim countries as a cultural thing, but it is certainly not a Christian teaching, but it is mainly a Muslim thing to try to control girls and women.  It could be partly cultural but it is still mainly in Islamic countries.

Canada fully supports Male Genital Mutilation. Don't you see the hypocrisy here? Studies show that went you amputate the foreskin, males lose a significant amount of pleasure. It's almost like removing the clitoris. We're so brainwashed, we're told that uncut guys look growse. I think all genetical mutulation should be made illegal. If a guy over 18 wants his foreskin removed, let him have it removed. It should be a choice made by the individuals, and not the parents at birth.

You're saying Muslims are barbaric for removing girls clitorises, yet the Canadian government allows for boys to have a part of their penises removed at at birth.

Edited March 7, 2021 by AntiConservative

[Argus]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

There's a million+ Muslims in Canada.  How many have gone rabid and attacked people in the last .. oh  25 years? 

Quite a few.

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Can you demonstrate that it is any higher than random non-Muslims Canadians going rabid and attacking people in the same time period?  Unless you can show that, your continued insistence that Muslims are inherently more violent than non-Muslims is merely islamophobic misinformation.

We don't keep statistics. That's because liberals like you are afraid if we kept statistics the right would have proof of what can now be dismissed as 'anecdotal'. But when three quarters of the murders in my city have a Muslim involved, usually as the killer, I think I'm safe in saying they're heavily involved in crime.

And my main point wasn't the number that went rabid but the number not housebroken - whose religious beliefs and values are so completely opposed to our own.

[blackbird]

Just now, AntiConservative said:

Canada fully supports Male Genital Mutilation. Don;t you see the hypocrisy here? Studies show that went you amputate the foreskin, males lose a significant amount of pleasure. It's almost like removing the clitoris. We're so brainwashed, we're told that uncut guys look growse. I think all genetical mutulation should be made illegal. If a guy over 18 wants his foreskin removed, let him have it removed. It should be a choice made by the individuals, and not the parents at birth.

Circumcision is not male genital mutilation by any stretch of the imagination.  It simply removes the foreskin which does not effect the amount of pleasure.  You have been told lies by those who try to defend female genital mutilation, which is really harmful.