Increased Immigration not needed, will hurt workers

[Argus]

2 hours ago, AntiConservative said:

I havn't persecuted any Christians. My parents are Muslim. I go to the Mosque a few times a year. It's time to judge people on their actions, instead of their religious background. As far as racism is concerned, it's a double-edge sword. Treat people the way you want to be treated. How would you like to visit our countries, and see creepy locals calling you "Whitey".

Arab countries are some of the most racist and bigoted in the world. And the middle east is one of the last remaining areas of the world where slavery is still practiced.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Circumcision is not male genital mutilation by any stretch of the imagination.  It simply removes the foreskin which does not effect the amount of pleasure.  You have been told lies by those who try to defend female genital mutilation, which is really harmful.

If you don't leave it up to the individual once they reach an age of consent, then it is.  It's not comparable to FGM in terms of actual damage, but it is still chopping off a bit without permission.

Pretty bad...

Edited March 7, 2021 by bcsapper

[AntiConservative]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Circumcision is not male genital mutilation by any stretch of the imagination.  It simply removes the foreskin which does not effect the amount of pleasure.  You have been told lies by those who try to defend female genital mutilation, which is really harmful.

As a guy who's uncut, I can tell you from first hand experience that your wrong. Having the foreskin caressed is a lot more pleasurable than having a girl grip the middle of your shaft.

[blackbird]

Just now, bcsapper said:

If you don't leave it up to the individual once they reach an age of consent, then it is.  It's not comparable to FGM in terms of actual damage, but it is still chopping of a bit without permission.

Pretty bad...

Whether is should be made illegal until a child reaches a certain age I don't know.  A large percentage of Americans have it done, maybe more than 50%.  But it should never be compared to female genital mutilation.  That is horrendous.

[blackbird]

Just now, AntiConservative said:

As a guy who's uncut, I can tell you from first hand experience that your wrong. Having the foreskin caressed is a lot more pleasurable than having a girl grip the middle of your shaft.

Well, we won't go into that here.   It's a bit off in more ways than one.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Right To Left said:

And those people would not be rightwing conservatives, who taught us that white Europeans were superior to other 'darker' races of mankind,and so had the right to move in and push natives off their lands, as they set up their settler colonies around the world. 

Oh, they did? How silly of me to think that Arabs had the first intercontinental slave trade, and spent a thousand years running black slaves up the east coast of Africa and into the middle east (where the men were all castrated on arrival so they couldn't breed). They also sailed the world, raiding Europe all the way around to Britain, and took over a million of those Europeans as slaves. As for colonies, it seems to me the Muslim world did its best from inception to invade its neighbours, including doing their level best for centuries to conquer Europe, setting up colonies from Spain to Serbia, and killing tens if not hundreds of millions of 'infidels' during repeated invasions of India. They didn't put the locals in reservations, though. Instead they beheaded them and piled the heads up in competitions to see who could make the biggest pile.

For that matter, if you're from Syria then either your ancestors were colonized by Muslim conquerors and forced to convert to Islam or you're the descendant of Muslim conquerors who converted the local Christians by the sword or murdered them or chased them off their lands.

Sorry, bud, but your whiny attempt to pretend Europeans originated racism and colonialism does't work.

 

[Argus]

2 hours ago, AntiConservative said:

You make it sound like a large percentage of Muslims in Canada, want to have their daughters clitorises be removed. Maybe you should conduct some research. Go to the local Mosque, and ask some of the members, if they want to see a member of their family undergo Female-Genital-Mutilation. The gap between your misconceptions and realty, is astonishing.

Why? Do you think Muslims instantly change their cultural views the moment they set foot in Canada? 95% of Egyptian women have had this procedure and they're one of the more moderate Arab states.

[AntiConservative]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Well, we won't go into that here.   It's a bit off in more ways than one.

It shows the hypocrisy. Circumsision is technically male genital mutilation. The only reason why our ancestors did, it was to prevent children from masturbating, because they thought it would bring them bad luck.

[blackbird]

1 minute ago, AntiConservative said:

It shows the hypocrisy. Circumsision is technically male genital mutilation. The only reason why our ancestors did, it was to prevent children from masturbating, because they thought it would bring them bad luck.

  Ask your doctor or google it on the internet.  It is not mutilation.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Right To Left said:

1. Hasn't this been the main source of the Republican Party's and conservative movements' schizophrenia on the topic of immigration! GOP business leaders want lots of immigrants and encourage refugee flows also, to prevent wages from rising and union organizing, because it helps drive down the cost of labour. 

BUT of course, the knuckle-dragging common louts who make up rightwing activism don't benefit unless they at least own a small business,

So let me see if I get your... thinking, right, if I can use that adjective. Immigrants hold down wages and so the 'common louts' are 'knuckle draggers for opposing immigration. Is that it?

Because by your 'logic' those common types are absolutely right to oppose immigration.

1 hour ago, Right To Left said:

2. I see cosmopolitanism as an openness to other perspectives and other cultures.

Which is something the Arab world is most DEFINITELY not known for.

[AntiConservative]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

Why? Do you think Muslims instantly change their cultural views the moment they set foot in Canada? 95% of Egyptian women have had this procedure and they're one of the more moderate Arab states.

Well the men who want their women to undergo female genital mutulation are idiots. What good is having a less horny wife around? Imagine hearing, i'm sorry but i'm not in the mood all the time. If a guy wants to enjoy sex, it's more fun, when the girl smiles back at you. It's not fun when your girlfriend looks back at you with an uncomforable stare.

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Whether is should be made illegal until a child reaches a certain age I don't know.  A large percentage of Americans have it done, maybe more than 50%.  But it should never be compared to female genital mutilation.  That is horrendous.

 

Circumcision rates have fallen drastically for Americans, and are actually much higher in North Africa, West Africa, and the Middle East, the source of some N.A. immigrants.   Also much higher in Malaysia, the Philippines, and South Korea.

I am always amazed how assertions about "Americans" always find their way into discussions about Canadian government  and culture.

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Circumcision rates have fallen drastically for Americans, and are actually much higher in North Africa, West Africa, and the Middle East, the source of some N.A. immigrants.   Also much higher in Malaysia, the Philippines, and South Korea.

I am always amazed how assertions about "Americans" always find their way into discussions about Canadian government  and culture.

"The prevalence of circumcision is the percentage of males in a given population who have been circumcised. The rates vary widely by country, from virtually 0% in Honduras and Japan, to 8.5% in the United Kingdom, to 7% in Spain, to 45% in South Africa, to 75% in the United States,... Sep. 6 2019"

-wikipedia

As I said, I don't think it is mutilation and not comparable to female genital mutilation.

[AntiConservative]

12 minutes ago, blackbird said:

  Ask your doctor or google it on the internet.  It is not mutilation.

We only accept circumsision, because we're use to it in our culture. When you look at it scientifically, there is no legitament reason to remove the foreskin. The foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis. When you remove it, sexual pleasure goes down.

I think it should be illegal, until the child can make an informed choice.

Edited March 7, 2021 by AntiConservative

[Argus]

52 minutes ago, AntiConservative said:

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton though it was a good idea to fund militia groups who were protesting their governments policies. When the government tried to clamp down, they made it seem like the government was persecuting innocent protestors.

 

In actual fact, the Arab Spring started in Tunisia and swept through the middle east without any assistance from the Americans. The uprising and fighting had nothing to do with the West, and it was only the indiscriminate slaughter practiced by the Libyan government and governments like yours which inspired the Americans and others to bomb Libya to assist. Describing what the Libyans did as 'clamping down' is about the same as describing what the Chinese are doing to the Uighurs as sending them to  'holiday camps'

52 minutes ago, AntiConservative said:

This gave them justification for the Air Strikes in Lybia, which led to their Civil War.

The civil war started first, bubba

52 minutes ago, AntiConservative said:

Once Gaddafi was killed, they switched over to helping destabilize Syria. Hillary Clinton helped pit one group of protestors against another, which escolated into an all-out civil war. If it wasn't for western interference, our civil war would have never happened.

You said you were from Syria. Now you're from Libya. And apparently a supporter of the Gadaffi government?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

"The prevalence of circumcision is the percentage of males in a given population who have been circumcised. The rates vary widely by country, from virtually 0% in Honduras and Japan, to 8.5% in the United Kingdom, to 7% in Spain, to 45% in South Africa, to 75% in the United States,... Sep. 6 2019"

-wikipedia

As I said, I don't think it is mutilation and not comparable to female genital mutilation.

It's not comparable, but then, neither is a poke in the eye.  If you think I ought to able to poke you in the eye without permission, I'm in Alberta...

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

As I said, I don't think it is mutilation and not comparable to female genital mutilation.

 

U.S. circumcision rates have fallen for years, partially (and ironically for this topic) due to immigration from nations around the world.   Still unclear how American data figures so prominently in a discussion about Canada, but certainly not surprised...happens all the time here.

[AntiConservative]

2 minutes ago, Argus said:

You said you were from Syria. Now you're from Libya. And apparently a supporter of the Gadaffi government?

The tried destablizing a lot of countries at once. Look into the weapons smuggling out of Libya into Syria, and the Benghazi connection.

[Argus]

29 minutes ago, AntiConservative said:

Canada fully supports Male Genital Mutilation. Don't you see the hypocrisy here? Studies show that went you amputate the foreskin, males lose a significant amount of pleasure.

That is silly. It's a silly argument. You can't compare how much pleasure people have with or without unless you can measure the same individual before and after. But in any event, it most certainly does not eliminate pleasure for the male. While the whole purpose of FGM is to eliminate pleasure for females. And it does so.

[AntiConservative]

14 minutes ago, Argus said:

That is silly. It's a silly argument. You can't compare how much pleasure people have with or without unless you can measure the same individual before and after. But in any event, it most certainly does not eliminate pleasure for the male. While the whole purpose of FGM is to eliminate pleasure for females. And it does so.

Look at the origins of circumcision. Religious parents were worried that if their boys started masturbating, they would be spiritually condemed. So they started removing the foreskin, thinking it would reduce the likelyhood of them masturbating. Circumsion was invented to reduce sexual sentation.

The overall reduction in pleasure between loosing the foreskin, and losing the clitoris, is less severe, but the principle is the same. When you amputate nerve endings, it reduces sexual sensitivity. That's why non-consensual circumcision should be made illegal.

There is no basis for allowing for non-consensual circumcision to go on in Canada, other than maintaining a statue-quo that appeases our religious establisments. In Canada like any other Western Nation, Church and State are suppose to be seperate.

Edited March 7, 2021 by AntiConservative

[dialamah]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

1.  No, you are way off base.  FGM is practiced on millions of Muslim girls in Muslim countries.  Why try to twist the truth and say is is practiced by Christians 

2.  There are no Christians in the west who practice FGM.  Now it is possible it is practiced on some Christians in Muslim countries as a cultural thing, 

3.  but it is certainly not a Christian teaching, but it is mainly a Muslim thing to try to control girls and women.  It could be partly cultural but it is still mainly in Islamic countries.

1.  From the website Stop FGM, 

Quote

Female Genital Mutilation occurs in non-Muslim societies in Africa and is practiced by Christians, Muslims and Animists alike. In Egypt, where perhaps 97 percent of girls suffer genital mutilation, both Christian Copts and Muslims are complicit. Thus, it has long been concluded to be a cultural practice, not connected to religion.   

Christians and Muslims alike believe that circumcision of girls prevents them from vice and makes them more attractive for future husbands; mothers fear that their daughters can’t get married if they have not been cut.

 In the regions where FGM is practiced, it's usually more common among Muslim populations than Christians but the difference often isn't much.   And in some places, it's more common among Christians than Muslims.  In Uganda, more Christians than Muslims practice FGM; in Niger, 2% of Muslim women had been circumcised, while 55% of Christian woman had been.  In many regions of the world, Muslims do not practice FGM at all.  

2.  American Christian Girl suffered FGM; 3-year old American girl has clitoris removed to prevent masturbation.

Who knows how many more, in the States or Canada?   Understanding this as a cultural practice rather than a religious one allows us to identify all the girls who might be at risk.

3.  FGM predates both Christianity and Islam

Quote

Although FGM is practiced in some communities in the belief that it is a religious requirement, research shows that FGM pre-dates Islam and Christianity.  Some researchers have traced the practice to Egypt in the fifth-century BC and argue that the geographical distribution of FGM suggests that it originated on the west coast of the Red Sea.

None of this is intended to excuse Muslims because "Christians do it to"; FGM is a horrific practice, no matter who does it.  But if we are to help these girls and women, we need to understand who may be affected; focusing on the problem is belonging to Muslims means we will miss the risk in other populations.

 

 

 

 

[AntiConservative]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

None of this is intended to excuse Muslims because "Christians do it to"; FGM is a horrific practice, no matter who does it.  But if we are to help these girls and women, we need to understand who may be affected; focusing on the problem is belonging to Muslims means we will miss the risk in other populations.

So if we're so appauled by female genital mutulation, why do we continue to be so tolerant of circumsion in Canada?

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, AntiConservative said:

I think all genetical mutulation should be made illegal. If a guy over 18 wants his foreskin removed, let him have it removed.

I agree.  Being ignorant and culturally indoctrinated, I had my son circumcised 40+ years ago.  Makes me sad now, but at the time, how was I to know any different?  It was as automatic as putting a band on the wrist with Baby ____ on it.

I still find female circumcision to be worse.

[AntiConservative]

13 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I still find female circumcision to be worse.

Yeah, but that's like saying a broken arm is going to hurt more than a broken finger. If both are painful, than both should be outlawed. We need to wake up to our hyprocrisy. If we're appauled by those who take away girls ability to feel sexual pleasure, than maybe it's time to re-think what we've been taught to believe about circumcision.

Edited March 7, 2021 by AntiConservative

[blackbird]

3 minutes ago, AntiConservative said:

So if we're so appauled by female genital mutulation, why do we continue to be so tolerant of circumsion in Canada?

 

11 minutes ago, dialamah said:

1.  From the website Stop FGM, 

 In the regions where FGM is practiced, it's usually more common among Muslim populations than Christians but the difference often isn't much.   And in some places, it's more common among Christians than Muslims.  In Uganda, more Christians than Muslims practice FGM; in Niger, 2% of Muslim women had been circumcised, while 55% of Christian woman had been.  In many regions of the world, Muslims do not practice FGM at all.  

2.  American Christian Girl suffered FGM; 3-year old American girl has clitoris removed to prevent masturbation.

Who knows how many more, in the States or Canada?   Understanding this as a cultural practice rather than a religious one allows us to identify all the girls who might be at risk.

3.  FGM predates both Christianity and Islam

None of this is intended to excuse Muslims because "Christians do it to"; FGM is a horrific practice, no matter who does it.  But if we are to help these girls and women, we need to understand who may be affected; focusing on the problem is belonging to Muslims means we will miss the risk in other populations.

 

 

 

 

RankCountryPercentage of girls and women aged 15 to 49 years who have undergone FGM/C

1Somalia98%

2Guinea96%

3Djibouti93%

4Egypt91%

5Eritrea89%

6Mali89%

7Sierra Leone88%

8Sudan88%

9Gambia76%

10Burkina Faso76%

11Ethiopia74%

12Mauritania69%

13Liberia66%

Percentage of population which is Muslim:

Middle East - North Africa315,322,000 –488,603,838     91.2%

You will notice these countries with a high percentage of FGM are mainly Muslim, 91% in fact.