oops Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 If you wanted to cripple your healthcare system, you could build up a huge waiting list for life saving procedures, then close the hospitals. This would greatly increase the potential for more procedures being required. Of course you would loose a few, but those who survived would now be require more treatments, so it would be a net gain. You could also have your doctors widely prescribe opiods for pain relief, making people dependent on them. Since the drugs they are now dependent on come from outside the country, you could close the borders, forcing the users to rely on more toxic local drugs. Of course some would die, but there would be lots left to fill available hospital beds. You could make your population more sedentary, by telling them to stay home. Closing the hospitals denying necessary joint replacements that would keep people mobile would also help. You could blame covi19 for filling the hospitals, of course no is going to do the math and call you a liar. You could traumatize the people by telling them that a viral infection that is killing millions, and filling the streets with bodies. Of course people wouldn't be stepping over dead bodies as they navigate the sidewalks, but if you keep saying over and over, people will believe you. This would cause a deterioration of mental health in general, and the people's sense of well being, and gain a lot of demand for healthcare services. You could increase the government debt, allowing it to take a larger portion of the government funding pie. You could also decrease the size of the pie by driving your businesses into bankruptcy, raising unemployment and generally decreasing your tax base. It seems that our governments are hitting on all cylinders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nefarious Banana Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 So . . . . what's your point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) I don't think we need to do any of that to destroy our health care system. We've been destroying our health care system for years and Canadians haven't shown any interest, care or concern. We have way fewer doctors, nurses, hospital beds, diagnostic machines, ICU beds, etc. than other western countries, along with, of course, longer waiting lists, but Canadians couldn't care less. Health care isn't even raised as an issue during federal or provincial elections. No one gives a damn. Edited January 15, 2021 by Argus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, Argus said: I don't think we need to do any of that to destroy our health care system. We've been destroying our health care system for years and Canadians haven't shown any interest, care or concern. We have way fewer doctors, nurses, hospital beds, diagnostic machines, ICU beds, etc. than other western countries, along with, of course, longer waiting lists, but Canadians couldn't care less. Health care isn't even raised as an issue during federal or provincial elections. No one gives a damn. This is because a large number of immigrants from countries with non-existent health care systems get imported year after year. They wouldn't know better. Also if you make sure you import only young and healthy people, there is little need of healthcare. Wasn't health one of the pre immigration criteria? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queenmandy85 Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 Rather than quote Oop's lengthy post, I would just ask what would you suggest to fight covid 19? We should have done more but when you have a non-compliant segment in the population, you do your best. Taiwan and New Zealand did better but the Kiwi's have resisted all my suggestions that we trade Prime Ministers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oops Posted January 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 I would not have locked down the country in the first place. Lock downs only slow the spread, and for any infections that are avoided there is a corresponding avoidance of immunity. In the long run there is no difference, and after 10 months we probably have more current infections than if we hadn't locked down at all. I would have tried to balance the budget, or run surpluses in the good years running up to this crisis so we would have a healthier economy, and could better fund our healthcare system. I would have provided funds where the deaths were occurring in the long term care homes, let everyone else live their lives as they should. I would have made testing a priority, putting resources into finding out who has the virus, and isolating those who were likely to infect others, and actually using an informed approach to containing it. I would have encouraged people to become less sedentary, becoming stronger physically and mentally, and strengthening their immune systems to better fight the virus. If you wanted the crisis to last as long as possible, lock downs and public hysteria are the way to do it. If you want to give the next virus the best possible start, destroying your economy and healthcare system is the way to do it. Of course the longer you make the infection last, the more variances the virus is likely to produce, which is what we are seeing now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 hour ago, oops said: I would not have locked down the country in the first place. Lock downs only slow the spread, and for any infections that are avoided there is a corresponding avoidance of immunity. In the long run there is no difference, and after 10 months we probably have more current infections than if we hadn't locked down at all. Sweden tried it that way and they've now given up, having recorded far more deaths than their neighbours. The case fatality rate for Covid19 is 2.5%. Even if you cut that in half you'd need to let 300-400k people die to get herd immunity. And even then the immunity doesn't last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oops Posted January 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Argus said: Sweden tried it that way and they've now given up, having recorded far more deaths than their neighbours. The case fatality rate for Covid19 is 2.5%. Even if you cut that in half you'd need to let 300-400k people die to get herd immunity. And even then the immunity doesn't last. Sweden is about the middle of the pack for deaths in Europe with fewer deaths per capita than Italy, Slovenia, Boznia and Herzegovina, Czechia, United Kingdom, North Macedonia, Moldova, Bulgaria, Hungary, Spain, Croatia, France and Switzerland. It has more deaths than Romania, Poland, Lithuania, Portugal, Austria, Netherlands , Slovakia, Germany, Serbia, Ireland, Greece, Latvia, Ukraine, Albania, Estonia and Norway. Generally the countries with greater population densities had more deaths. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/ Sweden however didn't attack their own healthcare system, lock their children out of their schools, telling them that they were going to die, and kill their elderly by isolating them and immobilizing them. Sweden did not lock down their citizens, and criminalize the operation of their businesses, and it seemed to make almost no difference in infection rates. Edited January 15, 2021 by oops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted January 15, 2021 Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 14 minutes ago, oops said: Sweden did not lock down their citizens, and criminalize the operation of their businesses, and it seemed to make almost no difference in infection rates. The countries to compare Sweden with aren't Italy and Greece but the other Nordic countries. Norway's death rate is 9.62 Denmark, 28.65, Finland 11.16 Sweden 100. It has done far worse than the other Nordic countries. I don't think that has been attributed to anything other than the others locking down and Sweden failing to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oops Posted January 15, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2021 15 minutes ago, Argus said: The countries to compare Sweden with aren't Italy and Greece but the other Nordic countries. Norway's death rate is 9.62 Denmark, 28.65, Finland 11.16 Sweden 100. It has done far worse than the other Nordic countries. I don't think that has been attributed to anything other than the others locking down and Sweden failing to do so. Yes I do, It has the densest population of all the Nordic countries, and is the most industrialized . It has more outside contacts and outside workers. Twist it how you want, Europe is Europe, population density is population density, and choosing the comparables to paint your own picture is a sign of ignorance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 6 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said: Rather than quote Oop's lengthy post, I would just ask what would you suggest to fight covid 19? We should have done more but when you have a non-compliant segment in the population, you do your best. Taiwan and New Zealand did better but the Kiwi's have resisted all my suggestions that we trade Prime Ministers. Bummer. Jacinda rocks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 2 hours ago, oops said: Yes I do, It has the densest population of all the Nordic countries, and is the most industrialized . It has more outside contacts and outside workers. Twist it how you want, Europe is Europe, population density is population density, and choosing the comparables to paint your own picture is a sign of ignorance. Na. Sweden population density 24.3 per sq km. Denmark 135.6 per sq km. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Say what you people want about Sweden. Mostly bullshit lies published by Neovirus fascists. Deaths have completely stop there. Well, almost to a total stop. Go check it out. Yeah they got the virus, but they did certain things to stop the most serious cases from dying. Now hopefully they can carry on living? But not us. We obsess on the death count that is 60% LTC holmes. The remaining 40% were elderly who live at home. People of advanced age. You get that? Whatever shall we do? Oh friggin my who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 8 hours ago, Argus said: I don't think we need to do any of that to destroy our health care system. We've been destroying our health care system for years and Canadians haven't shown any interest, care or concern. We have way fewer doctors, nurses, hospital beds, diagnostic machines, ICU beds, etc. than other western countries, along with, of course, longer waiting lists, but Canadians couldn't care less. Health care isn't even raised as an issue during federal or provincial elections. No one gives a damn. Yes we are to blame for leaving our system in tatters, then along came Covid-19. Those inefficiencies and shortfalls you are using to excuse this pandemic are nothing compared to the level of death, and suffering, that comes about by these government decisions. People are not getting life saving treatment. And just pray, that someone you love doesn't need to go to the hospital right now. You may never see them alive ever again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 (edited) 6 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said: Rather than quote Oop's lengthy post, I would just ask what would you suggest to fight covid 19? We should have done more but when you have a non-compliant segment in the population, you do your best. Taiwan and New Zealand did better but the Kiwi's have resisted all my suggestions that we trade Prime Ministers. I've already told you what could be done. These poeple have a useful suggestion. Very reputable organization representing retired persons. What will it take to wake up the bureaucrats at Ontario's Ministry of Long-term care? Quote When COVID-19 first hit, the effects on residents in long-term care homes was immediate…and devastating. Over 2,000 residents died in the first wave, amid evidence of inadequate staffing, lack of equipment and infection prevention measures, carelessness and neglect – conditions so terrible that the military had to be called in to manage some of the homes. Premier Ford expressed his outrage, and vowed to place an iron ring of safety around residents. Instead, what did we get? Some announcements about long term plans. Good ideas, to be fair – like more money to build and improve facilities, and a commitment to guarantee at least four hours of care per resident per day. (But not until 2025). As for immediate needs and more urgent preventive measures…little or nothing. Etc. Edited January 16, 2021 by OftenWrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 43 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: Say what you people want about Sweden. Mostly bullshit lies published by Neovirus fascists. Deaths have completely stop there. Well, almost to a total stop. Go check it out. Yeah they got the virus, but they did certain things to stop the most serious cases from dying. Now hopefully they can carry on living? But not us. We obsess on the death count that is 60% LTC holmes. The remaining 40% were elderly who live at home. People of advanced age. You get that? Whatever shall we do? Oh friggin my who knows. Sweden had 34 deaths yesterday, their per capita death rate is more than double Canada. Elderly are expendable, we get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, Aristides said: Sweden had 34 deaths yesterday, their per capita death rate is more than double Canada. Elderly are expendable, we get it. You get nothing zero score. Go back and read, try again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: You get nothing zero score. Go back and read, try again! I read it. https://www.politico.eu/article/discontent-rises-in-sweden-as-coronavirus-cases-spike/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 17 minutes ago, Aristides said: I read it. https://www.politico.eu/article/discontent-rises-in-sweden-as-coronavirus-cases-spike/ Sweden proved you can control the virus. Not eliminate, but control as in reduce the deaths to levels of insignificance. Because they use a little thing called intellegences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oops Posted January 16, 2021 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 39 minutes ago, Aristides said: Sweden had 34 deaths yesterday, their per capita death rate is more than double Canada. Elderly are expendable, we get it. Sweden has a population density of 25.4 people per square kilometer. https://www.google.com/search?q=population+density+sweden&rlz=1C1GGRV_enCA911CA911&oq=population+density+sweden&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i20i263j0l2j0i395l4.12410j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Canada has a population density of 4 people per square kilometer. https://www.google.com/search?q=population+density+canada&rlz=1C1GGRV_enCA911CA911&oq=population+density+Canada&aqs=chrome.0.0i457j0l4j0i395l3.15666j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8 Of course Ontario and Quebec have higher per capita covid deaths than New Brunswick and Newfoundland. If you cared about the elderly you would care about this. “While we are so busy trying to protect (seniors) from COVID, they might end up dying of isolation and loneliness and we have started hearing cases from people saying, ‘I want to die,'” said Dr. Samir Sinha, the director of Health Policy Research for the National Institute on Ageing, and the director of geriatrics for the Sinai Health System. https://globalnews.ca/news/7484503/covid19-seniors-isolation-mental-health/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Denmark has a population density of 135 people per sq km. Sweden's death rate is over 3 times Denmark's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 43 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: Sweden proved you can control the virus. Not eliminate, but control as in reduce the deaths to levels of insignificance. Because they use a little thing called intellegences Guess you didn't read the link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Just now, Aristides said: Guess you didn't read the link. Nope, didn't need to. Won't say anything I don't already know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 Read the CARP link I posted. There's some useful ideas. Not like I haven't been saying the same thing myself since this whole mess started, back in Feb 2020. But, I'm used to being right and ignored by now. You people can just carry on. Here comes the abyss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted January 16, 2021 Report Share Posted January 16, 2021 And I'm liken it! I'm liken it! oh yeaah. Down you all go, down down down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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