Federal government creating inventory of racial minorities.

[scribblet]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/black-mental-health-report-community-reaction-1.5688803

Pretty ridiculous if a group that has problems can't get resources... and then is accused by whites of racism IMO.

"Why doesn't my town in the desert get any flood relief from the government.  THAT'S RACIST !" 

If people are having a problem getting a loan for whatever it's more likely that they don't qualify for various other reasons, other than discrimination.  Not everything is discrimination, it's just doing business.   My kids wouldn't get a loan, I'd guarantee that, even though they are working.    Should a financial institution be forced to loan money to anyone who asks?

[Michael Hardner]

30 minutes ago, marcus said:

They're racist against whites.

Whites are the most put-upon group in history, especially wealthy ones.... they are so great...

[Argus]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/black-mental-health-report-community-reaction-1.5688803

Pretty ridiculous if a group that has problems can't get resources... and then is accused by whites of racism IMO.

"Why doesn't my town in the desert get any flood relief from the government.  THAT'S RACIST !" 

Every group has mental health issues, and none of them have anything remotely like the amount of medical/health care resources they need. A friend of mine's teenage daughter was having suicidal thoughts, enough that the hospital admitted her and kept her for a week. Then they sent her home with a prescription. The wait for a psychiatrist is over two years.

So why should blacks get special treatment?

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

 So why should blacks get special treatment?

That's also an old approach: since the levels of support are inadequate groups with higher needs shouldn't be served either.  Your argument, though, admits that they are still underserved - even at the inadequate level that the general population has to live with.

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's also an old approach: since the levels of support are inadequate groups with higher needs shouldn't be served either.  Your argument, though, admits that they are still underserved - even at the inadequate level that the general population has to live with.

"The report found that racism, police brutality and daily microaggressions are among the factors that negatively affect the mental health of Black people, while stigma and a fear of being judged prevent many from telling others about their struggles."

I don't know about you but I can easily recognize a highly politicized work of ideological bullshit when I see it. So this 'report' proves nothing whatsoever about whether the situation in the Black community is any worse than in the overall community.

But hey, if they find it that terrible, might I suggest they go back to wherever it is they came from (bearing in mind two thirds of visible minorities are immigrants)?

[Moonlight Graham]

On 8/28/2020 at 1:15 PM, dialamah said:

When was the last time a minority person or a person with disabilities served in these roles?  I don't know and not going to look it up right now, but if the answer is never, I'd ask if its true that there has never been an individual from these groups who didn't have the requisite skills and experience.  

This announcement certainly will fire up a certain group of people who think they're hard done by, regardless of facts.

On the other hand, it would be a much better world if such appointments happened because people were really judged on their merits, and not have a leg-up because they're white, or be filling some kind of "quota" of not-normally-considered people.

In Ottawa you almost always need to be bilingual to fill senior/executive government positions.  How many black, south asian, indigenous people etc in Canada do you think are bilingual compared to white people? How many people living west of ottawa do you think are bilingual compared to Quebec?

As far as I know they haven't even run any stats or studies to see if there's a disproportionate # of qualified bilingual whites being over over qualified bilingual non-whites.  If that doesn't happen, it's just racist virtue signalling.

[WestCanMan]

On 9/16/2020 at 9:40 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Whites are the most put-upon group in history, especially wealthy ones.... they are so great...

No, whites are like everyone else - they are entitled to the protections of the Constitution and the Charter. Period. 

Discrimination is never ok. Period. 

[WestCanMan]

21 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's also an old approach: since the levels of support are inadequate groups with higher needs shouldn't be served either.  Your argument, though, admits that they are still underserved - even at the inadequate level that the general population has to live with.

That's a bunch of bullshit.

No one is underserved. 

Some people get far more out of the system than they put in, some get approximately equal, some get far less out of the system than they put in. But everyone gets the basic services and that's all that's guaranteed. People who want more need to earn it, and everyone has a chance to earn it. People with good attitudes and a strong work ethic can always make a good living here. 

Dr Lewis is a perfect example of that. She's very visibly black (not someone who has to show you pictures of their paternal grandmother to prove that they're 'black'), she's a child of immigrant parents, and she is one of the most highly-educated and well-respected people in the country. In fact she almost won the leadership of the federal Conservative party. 

If she can accomplish all that as a woman, and a 'black' person, there's no excuse for anyone else who can't at the very least just graduate high school and get a decent job. It all comes down to the individual kid and their parents.

The kids who don't have a chance are the ones who allow themselves to be convinced at a young age that "because they look like Trayvon Martin, some white-supremacist Mexican almost-cop is gonna gun them down for fun". 

By acting like black people need more help from the system than everyone else you're just re-enforcing the bullshit narrative that the world is against them. Only the Libs and Dems are against them.

[marcus]

12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

1) In a country where our main MSM sources are CBC, Global and CTV news, FB memes are an extremely important source of news. There are a lot of important stories that those guys would rather we remain unaware of. I don't actually watch CBC, Global or CTV at all anymore, it's a complete waste of time.

You refuse to look at any other media and solely rely on facebook memes for your information. This is wrong in my opinion and it makes me question your credibility.

12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

2) Here's a video of Trudeau saying it himself. https://www.citizenfreepress.com/column-3/trudeau-announces-220m-black-entrepreneurship-program/ Is it old or something? Seems legit to me.

It is a reactionary action by the government, to respond to the emotional outrage many people are feeling. I'm not a fan of decisions made based on emotions. That said, I do believe that the black community, like many other groups, need support and a boost. I believe that if done correctly, it's a good investment. Whether it should be the federal government to make these decisions, that's another debate.

Here is the breakdown of how the money will be distributed:
 

Ottawa is putting up $93 million over the next four years for the Black Entrepreneurship Program, while banks are contributing up to $128 million for loans between $25,000 and $250,000 for Black business owners. The participating banks are RBC, BMO Financial Group, Scotiabank, CIBC, National Bank, TD, Vancity, and Alterna Savings.

The federal cash will include $33 million towards the loans, $6.5 million to collect data on the barriers preventing Black Canadians from succeeding in business, and $53 million for Black business organizations to provide mentorship, financial planning and business training.

 

Here are just some news sources that cover this information - contrary to your comments about Canadian media not covering something like this:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-black-entrepreneurs-1.5717297

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/trudeau-black-canadian-entrepreneurship-program_ca_5f5906b5c5b6b48507fad932

https://globalnews.ca/news/7324020/justin-trudeau-black-entrepreneur-program/

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/trudeau-announces-221m-loan-program-for-black-entrepreneurs-1.1491443

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2020/09/09/trudeau-announces-cash-for-loans-support-to-black-canadian-entrepreneurs-2/

[marcus]

On 9/16/2020 at 12:25 PM, Argus said:

Every group has mental health issues, and none of them have anything remotely like the amount of medical/health care resources they need. A friend of mine's teenage daughter was having suicidal thoughts, enough that the hospital admitted her and kept her for a week. Then they sent her home with a prescription. The wait for a psychiatrist is over two years.

So why should blacks get special treatment?

If your friend was black (ha-ha! imagine that), and he had a daughter going through the same thing, she would receive the same treatment as the white girl.

Your argument has holes.

Here is a video that describes privilege:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K5fbQ1-zps

[Argus]

5 minutes ago, marcus said:

If your friend was black (ha-ha! imagine that), and he had a daughter going through the same thing, she would receive the same treatment as the white girl.

And isn't the the way it's supposed to be? I mean, even if you had a Jewish friend (ha ha! Imagine that) they ought to have exactly the same treatment, right? So no need to direct special moneys to any one group.

[WestCanMan]

9 minutes ago, marcus said:

You refuse to look at any other media and solely rely on facebook memes for your information. This is wrong in my opinion and it makes me question your credibility.

Lol, I don't ONLY look at FB memes, but I don't watch CBC or CTV at all. I skim through Global only to see what they're taking about in my community because I have to find out what they're talking about. 

Quote

It is a reactionary action by the government, to respond to the emotional outrage many people are feeling. I'm not a fan of decisions made based on emotions. That said, I do believe that the black community, like many other groups, need support and a boost. I believe that if done correctly, it's a good investment. Whether it should be the federal government to make these decisions, that's another debate.

Not to be rude, but it's actually this debate. 

I think that there are lots of people that could use government help, but I also think that there was a point in time when they could have helped themselves but didn't. 

The whole Liberal/Democratic shtick of 'black people need to be babied' isn't true. Black people are no weaker than any other group of people. Instead of focusing on the bogeyman, they need to do what the asians and the white people do, and that's put the time and money into their children so that they have a real chance at a good life. Make sure that they get good grades, and that they are polite, hard-working, and that's it. It's just that easy. 

Failing that, it's a roll of the dice. It's not a question of 'who will pony up the dough for the kids that I was to lazy or too stupid to raise properly.

Quote

Here is the breakdown of how the money will be distributed:
 

Ottawa is putting up $93 million over the next four years for the Black Entrepreneurship Program, while banks are contributing up to $128 million for loans between $25,000 and $250,000 for Black business owners. The participating banks are RBC, BMO Financial Group, Scotiabank, CIBC, National Bank, TD, Vancity, and Alterna Savings.

The federal cash will include $33 million towards the loans, $6.5 million to collect data on the barriers preventing Black Canadians from succeeding in business, and $53 million for Black business organizations to provide mentorship, financial planning and business training.

That's $93M too much, and it's literally just pandering.

The problems that black people here think they face are the same problems that grade 8 kids think that they face: COPS ARE BAD!

It's grown up time. 

 

[Horus]

This is a very interesting forum. Most forums are banning members from holding powerful comments like these. Keep up the good work

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, marcus said:

Here are just some news sources that cover this information - contrary to your comments about Canadian media not covering something like this:

I never said that the media weren't covering this story anywhere, or that they wouldn't carry a story like this.

This is the exact kind of Trudeau story that will get more coverage than it deserves, because it portrays him as the wokest of wokes. 

 

An example of something that CBC or CTV will never say is that "before Trudeau went to work for SNC, SNC was caught bribing another Liberal politician with $2.3M for help winning a bridge contract."

CBC covered the SNC bribery story back when it happened, so they're keenly aware of it, but now that Trudeau is also implicated in an SNC scandal mum's the word. 

In other words, CBC is covering Trudeau's six. There are stories that the CBC will never touch and by watching their 'news' coverage you're condoning and accepting their corruption.

[marcus]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

And isn't the the way it's supposed to be? I mean, even if you had a Jewish friend (ha ha! Imagine that) they ought to have exactly the same treatment, right? So no need to direct special moneys to any one group.

Wrong.

As statistics show, a white girl is born with a head start in life compared to a black girl or a First Nations girl.

[WestCanMan]

42 minutes ago, marcus said:

As statistics show, a white girl is born with a head start in life compared to a black girl or a First Nations girl.

1) Wrong.

2) First nations girls start off with actual, quantifiable monetary advantages over everyone else.

3) Children born with two married parents start off with a head start. That's an actual fact that far outweighs any other factor by a huge margin. 

4) There are cultural differences which give people of certain cultures advantages over others. For example indo-Canadians are often comfortable living with large extended families. There are literally no white or black adults who live in the same house with multiple other adults from their extended family when they have a choice. I've been on this earth 52 years now and I have never seen it. That's almost normal for indo-Canadians. Sharing expenses like that is a huge advantage over other cultures where it's not even uncommon for a single mom to live on their own. 

There are several cultures in this country in which a large percentage of the parents consider a 'passing grade' for their children in school to be over 95%. Not even 5% of "white Canadian families" hold their children to that standard.  

There are actual reasons why black women or first nations women start off at a disadvantage compared to girls of other cultures, but the notion that 'police/white people are against them' is the cause is just pure, racist bullshit. 

The African American Family, from Wiki: 

Quote

U.S. Census data from 2010 reveal that more African-American families consisted of single mothers than married households with both parents. In 2011, it was reported that 72% of black babies were born to unmarried mothers.

This 'headstart' that you're talking about isn't the fault of white people Marcus. It's completely racist of you to blame the disadvantages of black girls on some imaginary thing that white people are doing to them. That's completely false. 

[marcus]

4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Lol, I don't ONLY look at FB memes, but I don't watch CBC or CTV at all. I skim through Global only to see what they're taking about in my community because I have to find out what they're talking about. 

Not to be rude, but it's actually this debate. 

I think that there are lots of people that could use government help, but I also think that there was a point in time when they could have helped themselves but didn't. 

The whole Liberal/Democratic shtick of 'black people need to be babied' isn't true. Black people are no weaker than any other group of people. Instead of focusing on the bogeyman, they need to do what the asians and the white people do, and that's put the time and money into their children so that they have a real chance at a good life. Make sure that they get good grades, and that they are polite, hard-working, and that's it. It's just that easy. 

Failing that, it's a roll of the dice. It's not a question of 'who will pony up the dough for the kids that I was to lazy or too stupid to raise properly.

That's $93M too much, and it's literally just pandering.

The problems that black people here think they face are the same problems that grade 8 kids think that they face: COPS ARE BAD!

It's grown up time. 

 

Did you (or do you) speak out when the former Conservative government was giving out billions in incentives to oil companies?

 

[marcus]

4 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

This 'headstart' that you're talking about isn't the fault of white people Marcus. It's completely racist of you to blame the disadvantages of black girls on some imaginary thing that white people are doing to them. That's completely false. 

Intergenerational trauma is usually seen within one family in which the parents or grandparents were traumatized, and each generation of that family continues to experience trauma in some form. In these cases the source can usually be traced back to a devastating event, and the trauma is unique to that family.

What makes the intergenerational trauma in the case of First Nations people different is that it wasn't the result of a targeted event against an individual – it was a set of government policies that targeted and affected a whole generation. Children were traumatized when they were taken from their parents and placed into either government-funded, church-controlled, residential learning institutions or into foster homes. Many children suffered horrific abuse while in these homes and institutions. And parents and communities were traumatized when their children were taken away from them with little or no idea if or when they would return.

Direct survivors of these experiences often transmit the trauma they experienced to later generations when they don't recognize or have the opportunity to address their issues. Over the course of time these behaviours, often destructive, become normalized within the family and their community, leading to the next generation suffering the same problems.

[OftenWrong]

7 hours ago, marcus said:

Intergenerational trauma is usually seen within one family in which the parents or grandparents were traumatized, and each generation of that family continues to experience trauma in some form. In these cases the source can usually be traced back to a devastating event, and the trauma is unique to that family.

What makes the intergenerational trauma in the case of First Nations people different is that it wasn't the result of a targeted event against an individual – it was a set of government policies that targeted and affected a whole generation. Children were traumatized when they were taken from their parents and placed into either government-funded, church-controlled, residential learning institutions or into foster homes. Many children suffered horrific abuse while in these homes and institutions. And parents and communities were traumatized when their children were taken away from them with little or no idea if or when they would return.

Direct survivors of these experiences often transmit the trauma they experienced to later generations when they don't recognize or have the opportunity to address their issues. Over the course of time these behaviours, often destructive, become normalized within the family and their community, leading to the next generation suffering the same problems.

Overblown emotional poppycock with no basis. The good things they did for many of those children should be disregarded entirely, especially the part about how the children were taken from broken homes in communities devastated by drugs and alcohol and facing a life of abject poverty with an early death.

 

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Overblown emotional poppycock with no basis. The good things they did for many of those children should be disregarded entirely, especially the part about how the children were taken from broken homes in communities devastated by drugs and alcohol and facing a life of abject poverty with an early death.

Initially, when children were taken, there weren't issues of broken homes, drugs and alcohol.  There were family relationships that White people didn't understand.  There were traditions and  beliefs White people didn't understand.  White people concluded that these were "heathen" and that the duty of White Christians was to save the children by taking them out of the community, to stamp out this heathen culture. When kids were taken and communities devestated, some adults probably did take up alcohol.  Some probably committed suicide.  Some probably decided White people were right  and rejected their own culture.  Its interesting that the villages that could hide even one child from the priest or police remained healthier (relatively speaking) than those communities that lost all their children.

When these kids were released from res schools or foster care, they were strangers in their homes because they'd been trained, by their white teachers and caretakers, to reject their own culture.  They were rejected by the larger white society because they were natives.  Many of these kids turned to alcohol and drugs because of the pain of not belonging anywhere.  When children were born to them, many had no idea how to parent because they'd been raised in an institution or used by foster families essentially as slaves.  The prevalence of sexual abuse directed towards these kids also affected their ability to function and parent.  Children born to these parents were raised by broken people, and along came the White "saviour" again - to take them out of their homes,  away from from their parents and what was left of their culture.  And the cycle repeated.  

Did you know the first residential schools opened in the 1870s and the last one closed in 1996?  How many generstions is that of kids removed from families and raised in an institution where physical and sexual abuse are common?  And of course, not every white caretaker was abusive, but many were - and many kids suffered.

Today, in many communities, First Nations are healing themselves.  The kids who avoided being taken became the repository of First Nations culture, but there weren't many of them and its a long process to reach everybody who was affected by these policies, and to heal them through connecting them with their history and their culture.

You don't need to feel guilty about decisions made by white people in the 1870s or 1960s, or even anyone else at any time - those decisions and actions have nothing to do with you.  I have no guilt for that, myself. 

What I do have is empathy for people who, through actions taken by government, have experienced intense pain and suffering.  As much as I'm able, I want to support them in healing and acknowledging their experience.  

If you feel guilty for anything, it should be your rejection of what happened to them as "Overblown emotional poppycock with no basis".  That is on you, entirely.  If you can feel empathy for seniors removed from family contact for a few months because of Covid, why do you reject empathy for children removed from family for years?

[DogOnPorch]

It's very important that everybody 'not white' grow-up to understand they are victims...oppressed by the 'white man'. The need that baggage...like a lodestone. Because good things come from such victimization...even if untrue.

Edited September 18, 2020 by DogOnPorch

[dialamah]

32 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

It's very important that everybody 'not white' grow-up to understand they are victims...oppressed by the 'white man'. The need that baggage...like a lodestone. Because good things come from such victimization...even if untrue.

LOL.  Nothing like the victim culture enjoyed by certain whites - "We make up government, make the laws, rule the corporations - but OMG, we're victimized because people are noticing all this power we have!  How dare they!"

[DogOnPorch]

7 minutes ago, dialamah said:

LOL.  Nothing like the victim culture enjoyed by certain whites - "We make up government, make the laws, rule the corporations - but OMG, we're victimized because people are noticing all this power we have!  How dare they!"

 

What colour am I?

[Argus]

12 hours ago, marcus said:

Wrong.

As statistics show, a white girl is born with a head start in life compared to a black girl or a First Nations girl.

Your statistics are meaningless. Most Black people are immigrants. That Black girl is born to an immigrant family. The problems with the indigenous people are because the Left insists on keeping them out in the bush like dime store indians, where there are no jobs. So they can 'preserve their culture'.

[Argus]

21 minutes ago, dialamah said:

LOL.  Nothing like the victim culture enjoyed by certain whites - "We make up government, make the laws, rule the corporations - but OMG, we're victimized because people are noticing all this power we have!  How dare they!"

This is brainless. Why wouldn't we have 'power' in a democracy when we're the majority? Why should we feel at all guilty about that? Why should we give preference to others? Especially when they're immigrants?

Edited September 18, 2020 by Argus