Time To Stop The Destruction

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. That wasn't the question " destruction of property as a means of legitimate protest. "
2. So now you are modifying the reasoning to a very blurry rationale: "clear" systemic racism.  Ok.
3. He was a convicted terrorist and was on terror watch lists until 2008, I think.
4. Increasing the punishments for defacing statues probably won't help, IMO.
5. This is meaningless without context.

You know exactly what I meant by my every statement but are seizing on some fine point to parse out that doesn't change the main point I am making, which is that mainstream society is being duped by radicals who aren't as interested in equality as their own radical agenda that most people, if they knew the facts, would never support.  Enough people have been co-opted to give that scary cause wings.  

[eyeball]

On 7/20/2020 at 9:53 AM, Argus said:

That again is the media narrative. But where does the media get that from? Black activists.

Do these people run the MSM the same way the chem-trail program is run?  Maybe it's the same people.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

1. You know exactly what I meant by my every statement but are seizing on some fine point to parse out that doesn't change the main point I am making, which is that mainstream society is being duped by radicals who aren't as interested in equality as their own radical agenda that most people, if they knew the facts, would never support.  
2. Enough people have been co-opted to give that scary cause wings.  

1. I would turn it back to you like this: you frame the problem as being some violation of principle by a mob, but there is no principle at play here - there are only two mobs.  Violence and ugliness befits whomever is on your side.  In this case, your side is a radical bunch of unprincipled politicians that doesn't give a toss for 'most people'.  If they did, then they wouldn't be surrounding themselves with stormtroopers.
2. The status quo is a scary alternative and if the ruling elites (who are in power now, I should add) decide that they want to squeeze people then there will be a pushback that can't be quelled by fancy language.  

[Zeitgeist]

38 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I would turn it back to you like this: you frame the problem as being some violation of principle by a mob, but there is no principle at play here - there are only two mobs.  Violence and ugliness befits whomever is on your side.  In this case, your side is a radical bunch of unprincipled politicians that doesn't give a toss for 'most people'.  If they did, then they wouldn't be surrounding themselves with stormtroopers.
2. The status quo is a scary alternative and if the ruling elites (who are in power now, I should add) decide that they want to squeeze people then there will be a pushback that can't be quelled by fancy language.  

Stormtroopers huh?   Wow you really are tilting at windmills.  I agree that linguistic acrobatics won't save you from the angry mob, just as it didn't save the intellectuals from the Bolsheviks. However, don't assume that you qualify as woke or worthy of protection.  Liberals are co-opted until power is secured.  Then they are declared counter-revolutionary.  It's happened many times in history.   People may not realize it until it's too late due to wishful thinking and naivety.  

Edited July 21, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

37 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 It's happened many times in history.   People may not realize it until it's too late due to wishful thinking and naivety.  

I'm not saying anything about my politics.  I could be a Bolshevik, or cop.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I thought of a few examples where this applied:

The American Revolution, and South Africa.

Also the American Militia Movement and armed insurrection and protest seems to be viewed as legitimate protest.  Once again, it comes down to an unprincipled decision of whose team are we talking about ?

A bunch of armed Muslims marching on a legislature for religious freedom for Muslims ?  What could be more American than that right ?

Or not ?  

Don't forget Vancouver losing game seven.

Off topic> How come you can edit a post without there being a notification it was edited?

[eyeball]

19 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Stormtroopers huh?   Wow you really are tilting at windmills.

Compared to tilting at radical Bolshevik mobs?

/facepalm

 

[Zeitgeist]

47 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Compared to tilting at radical Bolshevik mobs?

/facepalm

 

The leaders are self-proclaimed Marxist revolutionaries.  So, facts...

Edited July 22, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The leaders are are self-proclaimed Marxist revolutionaries.  So, facts...

They actually said "I'm a Marxist revolutionary" and refer to themselves as Bolsheviks?

[Michael Hardner]

33 minutes ago, eyeball said:

They actually said "I'm a Marxist revolutionary" and refer to themselves as Bolsheviks?

Of course not.  

I think that we're at the part of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" where the actual wolf shows up.  That means, some of the BLM are actually Marxists but we've been hearing about Marxists since Bill Clinton so nobody is worried.  I'm not either.

[mowich]

On 7/19/2020 at 3:08 PM, bcsapper said:

It's neither legitimate protest nor terrorism.  It's just vandalism.

Right you are, BC. 

[mowich]

On 7/19/2020 at 3:48 PM, Zeitgeist said:

I actually don't agree to disagree on this.  If we're willing to let this kind of destruction and imbalanced mischaracterization of important historic figures who set in motion the important institutions that make Canada what it is today and that the vast majority of Canadians value, we've abdicated our stewardship and shouldn't be surprised when we see more destruction of property and civilization in the future. 

Well said, Zeitgeist and I agree with your sentiments - in full.

[mowich]

On 7/19/2020 at 4:59 PM, Michael Hardner said:

1. Well, sometimes it does for sure.  People harass, burn and break things when they are trying to make a point and sometimes it's just accepted.  But at a certain point, everyone pretty much agrees that it should not happen.
2. Ok point accepted, but I fail to see the connection between your point and current events.  These are crises of 'identity', so nobody is starving here and nobody's way of life is threatened exactly.

This is the time for politics and not the grandstanding kind.  I'm hoping that many, like me, have had it with the culture wars.  
 

If it is the 'cancel culture' wars you are referring to, sir I agree with you in full.

Baseless accusations posted on social media without a shred of proof are becoming the norm.  People are not speaking up as they should because they too could become a target of this type of behavior.  I understand that but feel it is necessary to stand up to anyone who hasn't the intestinal fortitude to come forward and face the person they are accusing of wrong doing with proof and facts. 

[eyeball]

38 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

That means, some of the BLM are actually Marxists but we've been hearing about Marxists since Bill Clinton so nobody is worried.  I'm not either.

I wouldn't be surprised to find just as many Islamists and fascists amongst them as well.

Apparently if you go full circle you can see they're all shaking hands if not kissing one another. 

[mowich]

On 7/20/2020 at 3:11 AM, Michael Hardner said:

One person at a time.

And, every chance you get to confront them.

[mowich]

On 7/20/2020 at 8:31 AM, Michael Hardner said:

I just went to BLM's web page.  Here's the page where they state their beliefs:

"We embody and practice justice, liberation, and peace in our engagements with one another."

It is very easy to post your stated beliefs.  It is entirely another when those beliefs are not upheld by members and that is what we are seeing in cities like Portland today.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, mowich said:

1. If it is the 'cancel culture' wars you are referring to, sir I agree with you in full.

2. Baseless accusations posted on social media without a shred of proof are becoming the norm. 

3. People are not speaking up as they should because they too could become a target of this type of behavior.  I understand that but feel it is necessary to stand up to anyone who hasn't the intestinal fortitude to come forward and face the person they are accusing of wrong doing with proof and facts. 

1. Boycotts can continue.  People boycott Nike, Chik Fil A, Starbucks, Disney... nobody should care.  Academic freedom, as defined by freedom to publish without punishment, and freedom to speak should be guaranteed.
2. Those are private matters, but ok.
3. I don't know - maybe ?  Should already be covered by 1. and 2. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

1. I wouldn't be surprised to find just as many Islamists and fascists amongst them as well.

2. Apparently if you go full circle you can see they're all shaking hands if not kissing one another. 

1. And people who are concerned about Climate Change, and Joe Biden will be lumped in.
2. As they should as they will have to get along when the Republicans are trounced and the 1000-year reign of American Marxism marches in.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, mowich said:

And, every chance you get to confront them.

Not confront, but engage.

1 hour ago, mowich said:

It is very easy to post your stated beliefs.  It is entirely another when those beliefs are not upheld by members and that is what we are seeing in cities like Portland today.

It reflects badly on the movement when there's violence, just as it reflects badly on the Police when they kill one single guy with a camera recording it.

[taxme]

On 7/19/2020 at 9:43 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Yesterday BLM protesters vandalized statues of Sir John A. MacDonald, Canada's first Prime Minister, and Egerton Ryerson, the founder of public education in Ontario.  The basis of this destruction of public property and memorials to important Canadian public figures is a very narrow interpretation of these figures' careers for the role played in founding residential schools.  There seems to be little understanding of the fact that there were no Indigenous schools before the first public schools in Ontario, which were founded by churches and government. Many small remote communities didn't have local schools and so attendance required residency near the schools, which is still the case today for Indigenous students from remote communities who want to attend an Indigenous run high school.

No doubt there was mistreatment of Indigenous and suppression of Indigenous culture, but such ideas were considered progressive and civilizing at the time.  Education was highly valued.  Abuses happened commonly to non-Indigenous in schools until quite recently, yet only a fool would say that we shouldn't have publicly funded education because of those abuses.

Allowing the great achievements of the founding of Canada and the public education system to be ignored and twisted by an overblown narrative about evil colonialism is a blatant misinterpretation of history and a degradation of the antecedent progressive steps that have built the great country we have today with our rights, freedoms, and protections for minorities.

Games are being played by radical, ignorant activists who are refusing to leave police stations, even after they are released and charges are dropped, in order to draw media attention and public support, as Toronto Police Chief Saunders noted after yesterday's incident.

Is it time to increase sentencing for vandalism of monuments? Is it time to declare destructive forms of protest as acts of terrorism?

The destruction of the world has already started. The deep state globalists have given us a hoax virus which is being used to change what once was the old normal to a brand new new normal globalist communist world. The whole world is being turned upside down, and inside out, and still there are those covidiots and those pro BLM(burn/loot/murder)so called anti-racist fools who will never get what is being done to them every day now. They just keep eating it all up like candy.

The destruction of our once normal old way of life cannot be brought back to normal again until they the sheeple finally wake up and realize that the deep state swamp globalists, our comrade politicians, the lying media and their so called health expert Czar's are making total asses of them every day.

The consequences of what they have done to society may never be repaired again. It would have been better if society did not accept and go along with this planned pandemic as was already told to us all in regards to Event 201. It's all there on the internet, but sadly, no one here seems to care all that much about checking it out. They just want to keep going on and believing with the lies and the bull chit every day being fed to them rather than use their own heads and start to think for themselves. Maybe it is time to realize that the majority of Canadians have become nothing more than a bunch of trained seal dummies. And thanks to those dummies the destruction of our way of life will go on and on until there is nothing left of the old normal but they will be left with the new normal of misery and communism. Canadians have truly become an exercise in futility. Pretty bloody sad indeed. 

[mowich]

On 7/22/2020 at 12:35 PM, Michael Hardner said:

Not confront, but engage.

It reflects badly on the movement when there's violence, just as it reflects badly on the Police when they kill one single guy with a camera recording it.

The city of Portland is  little more than a shit-show and the vandals, thugs and punks have control while their sad excuse for a mayor joins the rioters as numbers of those infected with covid-19 continue to rise in the city.

[Michael Hardner]

46 minutes ago, mowich said:

The city of Portland is  little more than a shit-show 

You clearly have an opinion.

[taxme]

18 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You clearly have an opinion.

I have an opinion also. Put all the Soros backed Antifa communist red guard thugs in the gulag. It's time for Trump to declare Antifa to be a communist terrorist organization, and start arresting those commie shit-show retards. Even the BLM movement is also just another communist outfit, and both are supported by Biden/Bernier/AOC, and the democratic communist party of America. What Trump is waiting for is beyond me. 

[taxme]

19 hours ago, mowich said:

The city of Portland is  little more than a shit-show and the vandals, thugs and punks have control while their sad excuse for a mayor joins the rioters as numbers of those infected with covid-19 continue to rise in the city.

58 days of violence and chaos and looting. How can this be happening in a city in America today? And why are those liberal/democratic cities and their democratic politicians allowing this to keep happening? Is this a sign of what life in America will be like if Biden/Bernier win the election? From this hoax of a virus to all of this anti-racism going on every day in America how much longer will it be before Trump and the silent majority say enough already. It's time to send in the Cavalry and start arresting these hoax liars and Antifa/BLM terrorists. 

Sometimes I have to wonder about Trump. 

 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, taxme said:

58 days of violence and chaos and looting. How can this be happening in a city in America today? And why are those liberal/democratic cities and their democratic politicians allowing this to keep happening? Is this a sign of what life in America will be like if Biden/Bernier win the election? From this hoax of a virus to all of this anti-racism going on every day in America how much longer will it be before Trump and the silent majority say enough already. It's time to send in the Cavalry and start arresting these hoax liars and Antifa/BLM terrorists. 

Sometimes I have to wonder about Trump. 

 

Just when you're awake, right?

Actually, if this is what life in America is like under Trump, why ask if this is what life in America will be like under Biden?  It's already like that.

Surely a change would be good?