Time To Stop The Destruction

[Zeitgeist]

Yesterday BLM protesters vandalized statues of Sir John A. MacDonald, Canada's first Prime Minister, and Egerton Ryerson, the founder of public education in Ontario.  The basis of this destruction of public property and memorials to important Canadian public figures is a very narrow interpretation of these figures' careers for the role played in founding residential schools.  There seems to be little understanding of the fact that there were no Indigenous schools before the first public schools in Ontario, which were founded by churches and government. Many small remote communities didn't have local schools and so attendance required residency near the schools, which is still the case today for Indigenous students from remote communities who want to attend an Indigenous run high school.

No doubt there was mistreatment of Indigenous and suppression of Indigenous culture, but such ideas were considered progressive and civilizing at the time.  Education was highly valued.  Abuses happened commonly to non-Indigenous in schools until quite recently, yet only a fool would say that we shouldn't have publicly funded education because of those abuses.

Allowing the great achievements of the founding of Canada and the public education system to be ignored and twisted by an overblown narrative about evil colonialism is a blatant misinterpretation of history and a degradation of the antecedent progressive steps that have built the great country we have today with our rights, freedoms, and protections for minorities.

Games are being played by radical, ignorant activists who are refusing to leave police stations, even after they are released and charges are dropped, in order to draw media attention and public support, as Toronto Police Chief Saunders noted after yesterday's incident.

Is it time to increase sentencing for vandalism of monuments? Is it time to declare destructive forms of protest as acts of terrorism?

Edited July 19, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

10 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Is it time to increase sentencing for vandalism of monuments? Is it time to declare destructive forms of protest as acts of terrorism?

So if people protest something, the answer is to oppose what is being protested ?  What about starting a dialogue and brokering agreements ?

A bunch of Albertans drove to Ottawa to protest the carbon tax... should Ottawa have responded by raising it ?

Maybe the answer is to focus on the issue itself.

[Zeitgeist]

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

So if people protest something, the answer is to oppose what is being protested ?  What about starting a dialogue and brokering agreements ?

A bunch of Albertans drove to Ottawa to protest the carbon tax... should Ottawa have responded by raising it ?

Maybe the answer is to focus on the issue itself.

I'm all for dialogue, but if you're condoning destruction of property as protest, count me out.  I never said I was against all of the opinions expressed by the BLM protesters, and I strongly support their freedom to express their opinions.  It's the method that's at issue.  

Edited July 19, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

I'm all for dialogue, but if you're condoning destruction of property as protest, count me out.  I never said I was against all of the opinions expressed by the BLM protesters, and I strongly support their freedom to express their opinions.  It's the method that's at issue.  

Do you think it's right to discredit the movement because five people dumped paint on a statue ?

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Do you think it's right to discredit the movement because five people dumped paint on a statue ?

It would be right to arrest and charge anyone who dumps paint on a statue, regardless of to which movement they belong. 

The rest can be assessed on their merits.

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

1. It would be right to arrest and charge anyone who dumps paint on a statue, regardless of to which movement they belong. 

2. The rest can be assessed on their merits.

1. They are probably anti-statue, though.
2.  I hope so.  

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. They are probably anti-statue, though.
2.  I hope so.  

What if they were anti-kitten?

[Michael Hardner]

41 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

What if they were anti-kitten?

I hate to break it to you, but nobody cares if you hate kittens.  The Animal Control people actually get paid to do it.  

But... thread drift...

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I hate to break it to you, but nobody cares if you hate kittens.  The Animal Control people actually get paid to do it.  

But... thread drift...

The drift is in you assuming that comment means I hate kittens.  Obviously you can replace "kittens" with whatever you want. 

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Do you think it's right to discredit the movement because five people dumped paint on a statue ?

We have seen more than just this. Buildings burned, looting. Most of all, people have been killed while the 'movement' prevents the authorities from getting to the victim.

Do I think it's right to discredit the movement for that? Yes. By and large, yes. the movement needs to discredit these individuals if they want to distance themselves.
But they don't...

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yesterday BLM protesters vandalized statues of Sir John A. MacDonald, Canada's first Prime Minister, and Egerton Ryerson, the founder of public education in Ontario.  The basis of this destruction of public property and memorials to important Canadian public figures is a very narrow interpretation of these figures' careers for the role played in founding residential schools.

Good OP. I agree with your view on this. I think many sensible Canadians will agree.

Quote

Is it time to increase sentencing for vandalism of monuments? Is it time to declare destructive forms of protest as acts of terrorism?

To me it depends on circumstances. Sentence for vandalism shouldn't be too harsh, but there needs to be some deterrent or else up everything goes. these people are not doing it for the politics, which they barely have, but for shits and giggles. Makes for a great FB feed, and more pussy.

My solution is very basic and succinct. Billy-club anyone who is in the way when an officer wants to get through. Billy is your friend.

[scribblet]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Do you think it's right to discredit the movement because five people dumped paint on a statue ?

It's more than that, and you know it, if it were only 5 people one time, I would agree.    When they get caught breaking the law they scream foul and demand the perps be released, so we are supposed to sit quietly by while they destroy property.    We are fortunate that Canada hasn't reached the level of  frenzied rioting and violence it has in the U.S.   This is not about anti racism anymore, it's nothing but wanton destruction and a desire to bring down society. 

[eyeball]

36 minutes ago, scribblet said:

We are fortunate that Canada hasn't reached the level of  frenzied rioting and violence it has in the U.S.   This is not about anti racism anymore, it's nothing but wanton destruction and a desire to bring down society. 

It seems more symptomatic of a society already well on the way towards destruction. We're witnessing effects not causes.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It seems more symptomatic of a society already well on the way towards destruction. We're witnessing effects not causes.

I think that's a fair point. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

We have seen more than just this. Buildings burned, looting. Most of all, people have been killed while the 'movement' prevents the authorities from getting to the victim.

Do I think it's right to discredit the movement for that? Yes. By and large, yes. the movement needs to discredit these individuals if they want to distance themselves.
But they don't...

I agree that they need to discredit them, but some have said that the degree of trashing and such has been blown out of proportion.

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Do you think it's right to discredit the movement because five people dumped paint on a statue ?

Who's discrediting a movement?  The movement loses credibility the longer such destruction continues. 

Edited July 19, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

I would say calling it terrorism is doing so, yes.

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

I would say calling it terrorism is doing so, yes.

Destroying private/public property is legitimate protest in your estimation?  Perhaps as a descendant of colonialists it's time to give up your property?  You don't seem concerned about protecting it.  

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Destroying private/public property is legitimate protest in your estimation?  Perhaps as a descendant of colonialists it's time to give up your property?  You don't seem concerned about protecting it.  

It's neither legitimate protest nor terrorism.  It's just vandalism.

[Argus]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I agree that they need to discredit them, but some have said that the degree of trashing and such has been blown out of proportion.

Evidence? Cite?

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It's neither legitimate protest nor terrorism.  It's just vandalism.

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

It's neither legitimate protest nor terrorism.  It's just vandalism.

What about burning down buildings?  

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

What about burning down buildings?  

Sorry, I thought we were talking about the defacing of monuments.

There definitely does come a point when destruction of property (and the taking of life) with the goal of furthering political aims comes under the definition of terrorism. 

Vandalizing statues does not reach that point, in my opinion.

[scribblet]

What is going on in Portland now, is, terrorism IMO, and in other cities.   This is not blown out of proportion, in fact it's worse.

Riot declared at Portland Police Association headquarters as people set union office on fire

Portland Police declared a riot as people broke into the Portland Police Association headquarters in North Portland and set it ablaze. The fire was later put out as protesters were told to move east. Another protest took place at the Justice Center in downtown, where, according to multiple reports, tear gas was used to disperse the crowd of protesters. This comes as Black Lives Matter protests continue in the city.

Video via @tuckwoodstock

June 26th  https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/06/26/north-portland-descends-into-war-zone-as-antifa-tries-to-set-up-another-autonomous-zone-n579334

These are just a few of many terrorist acts across the U.S....   it has to end.

 

Edited July 19, 2020 by scribblet

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, scribblet said:

What is going on in Portland now, is, terrorism IMO, and in other cities.   This is not blown out of proportion, in fact it's worse.

Riot declared at Portland Police Association headquarters as people set union office on fire

Portland Police declared a riot as people broke into the Portland Police Association headquarters in North Portland and set it ablaze. The fire was later put out as protesters were told to move east. Another protest took place at the Justice Center in downtown, where, according to multiple reports, tear gas was used to disperse the crowd of protesters. This comes as Black Lives Matter protests continue in the city.

Video via @tuckwoodstock

June 26th  https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/06/26/north-portland-descends-into-war-zone-as-antifa-tries-to-set-up-another-autonomous-zone-n579334

These are just a few of many terrorist acts across the U.S....   it has to end.

 

Are you sure there is trouble in Portland?  I just checked the home page of CNN and saw nothing about it.

I did get to see Demi Moore's bathroom.

Maybe Argus is right about the MSM.

Edit>  Oh, and Taco Bell is saying goodbye to its 7-Layer Burrito and other classics to make room for two new menu items.  That's good to know.

Edited July 19, 2020 by bcsapper