Canada's national debt out of control...

taxme · July 9, 2020

25 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Sorry...no can do. British Columbia is unceded land that doesn't even belong to Canada in the first place.

Okay then, I will talk to some other Americans and see how they feel about it. I am pretty sure that some of those Americans that travel from America to Alaska would be in favor of and like it? But I must say that the native Indians pretty much own BC now, and pretty much nothing can ever get done now in BC without their permission anymore. I guess that they would be a problem alright. The Indians pretty much all hate Canada and America. It's just to Western looking for them.

So, are you trying to say here that all of the taxes that I have been paying to the thieves in Ottawa for all these years has just been one big gigantic ripoff then? Shocking.

Zeitgeist · July 9, 2020

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Don't be too hard on it....as it is very common for Canadian dissent to gravitate towards separation and/or U.S. statehood.

Even this newest debt bomb is being compared to the USA....oh no !!!

True. Did you see this? Singh says Trump is better than Trudeau on systemic racism. Be careful what you wish for, Singh.

https://globalnews.ca/video/rd/ceccae22-c127-11ea-88e9-0242ac110003/?jwsource=cl

bush_cheney2004 · July 9, 2020

1 minute ago, taxme said:

So, are you trying to say here that all of the taxes that I have been paying to the thieves in Ottawa for all these years has just been one big gigantic ripoff then? Shocking.

Pretty much...but all you have to do is wake up each morning and thank your indigenous hosts for letting you occupy the land.

The tribes are not responsible for Canada's federal debt.

bush_cheney2004 · July 9, 2020

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

True. Did you see this? Singh says Trump is better than Trudeau on systemic racism. Be careful what you wish for, Singh.

https://globalnews.ca/video/rd/ceccae22-c127-11ea-88e9-0242ac110003/?jwsource=cl

Trudeau is badly damaged, and Singh hates the idea that he has to keep the Liberals in power because there is no viable alternative right now.

Such a debt bomb would have sunk previous governments absent a war.

Edited July 9, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

taxme · July 9, 2020

11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Start a new thread if you want to pursue it....another member suggested BC statehood.

You appear to know a lot about Canada. Most Canadians don't even care about Canada. To most of them it is just a place to live and work, and make some money. At least in America, I see a hell of a lot more American patriotism and nationalism than I have ever see in Canada. I see a few token Canadian flags here and there on Canada Day. At onetime, before the Trudeau days, Canada was a great country to live in. Now it's the shits to live in. It has become a country full of trained seals who have lost the ability to be able to think for themselves. Their dear comrade leaders, and the lying Canadian media do all of their thinking for to them now. Deplorable situation to be in indeed. :unsure:

Argus · July 9, 2020

57 minutes ago, eyeball said:

And again I say so what given everyone is in the same boat with waves of debt washing over it.

Some of us had a lot heavier debt load than others going into this. Canada is near the top - was near the top - before the covid response.

https://tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-debt-to-gdp

57 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Australia just borrowed a couple hundred billion to find their army. Let me guess, they borrowed the money from China right?

Australia had less than half our debt load prior to covid, and didn't have to shut down as long or as completely.

57 minutes ago, eyeball said:

China's probably printing it as we speak.

Help me out here...how do you forclose an entire planet that can't pay its debt?

You don't. You simply start charging higher rates to those with higher debt loads, and ultimately, the rates get so high they can't afford to borrow.

57 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Recall the question Jody Foster's character wanted to pose to the aliens in the movie Contact..."How did you do it, how did your species survive its adolescence?"

They probably borrowed enough to get there and backed it up with the gold and other resources they knew existed throughout their system and amortized it over a 1000 year period.

Why can't we do that?

Because life isn't a movie?

57 minutes ago, eyeball said:

BTW anyone else notice no one wants to tackle the question I posed about just exactly who or where the idiots willing to keep lending us money are? Other Earthlings or something else?

The question you ought to be asking is who is going to continue to loan us money if it looks like the odds of getting paid back are rising.

bush_cheney2004 · July 9, 2020

1 minute ago, taxme said:

You appear to know a lot about Canada. Most Canadians don't even care about Canada. To most of them it is just a place to live and work, and make some money. At least in America, I see a hell of a lot more American patriotism and nationalism than I have ever see in Canada.

True, but they can't be like Americans because the Canadian identity is defined as NOT American. So overt patriotism is frowned upon.

Funny part is that massive deficits and rising debt is very, very American !!

Zeitgeist · July 9, 2020

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Pretty much...but all you have to do is wake up each morning and thank your indigenous hosts for letting you occupy the land.

The tribes are not responsible for Canada's federal debt.

Occupy whose land, the land that their ancestors took from someone else? The real issue is policies like the Indian Act that create two-tier citizens. Either we all pay taxes, have title, and live under the same laws with the same rights and freedoms or we have systemic institutionalization and inter-generational dependence, which is what the reserve system is about on both sides of the border. The sums given to Indigenous Affairs are staggering. Representation without taxation is just as bad as taxation without representation. We need to be invested in our society because our shared interests supersede racial distinctions. Are your business and government leaders apologizing every morning for the Indian Wars? Are the descendants of the Loyalists who fled to Canada seeking reparations for the land they left behind?

These are perhaps other topics, but they relate to our debt because we have a PM who doesn't know how to make hard choices and spend hard earned tax dollars responsibly. Billions to infrastructure and no projects to show for it. Millions in inquiries and new regulations with only canceled resource development projects and protests to show for it. Inquisitions of political correctness and empowerment of the ignorant are the hallmarks of this government. I guess we got weed to help us forget.

bush_cheney2004 · July 9, 2020

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

These are perhaps other topics, but they relate to our debt because we have a PM who doesn't know how to make hard choices and spend hard earned tax dollars responsibly. Billions to infrastructure and no projects to show for it.

Well, I am no fan of your present PM, but he is hardly the first to go down the path of massive debt. And other parties support this government.

Lots to work on at the federal level and between provinces....too much time spent on what Trump and the Americans are doing or are not doing instead.

taxme · July 9, 2020

13 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Pretty much...but all you have to do is wake up each morning and thank your indigenous hosts for letting you occupy the land.

The tribes are not responsible for Canada's federal debt.

The native Indians should be waking up every morning and thanking their lucky stars that old whitey came along, and have all the toys that they have today, all given to them at the white Canadian taxpayer's expense. Even old whitey stopped them from enslaving and killing each other. They have to be thankful for that, yes/no?

All the tax dollars that has been given to the native Indians for all of these decades for free has helped to add to Canada's debt. So, the native Indians do have some responsibility for Canada's debt. And the native Indians will never have to worry about trying to pay down the debt. Old whitey and others will be trying to get that debt down, if they can ever. Aw :unsure: well.

Zeitgeist · July 9, 2020

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Well, I am no fan of your present PM, but he is hardly the first to go down the path of massive debt. And other parties support this government.

Lots to work on at the federal level and between provinces....too much time spent on what Trump and the Americans are doing or are not doing instead.

I can only speak for Ontario, but I have to say our provincial government has been very focused and effective on the COVID front, but as I expected, there's incredible constipation on the reopening front. We've reopened so far in a quite responsible way, but the most important economic factor will be the return to school. If we can't get students back to school on a daily basis, I don't think we can return the economy to capacity. If people can't work and young people can't learn in a serious way, our economies will limp on and our debt will skyrocket.

We need close to full participation of the labour force in largely full-time work to manage all this debt and provide the services which we value, including the dole for those who need it. It would also be nice to have restaurants, theatres, sports, and the range of entertainment options we enjoyed. People need to work to have the funds to participate in the marketplace and to provide the revenue businesses need to survive. We need permission to have a marketplace and to find a safe way to function in the midst of COVID-19 because it could be with us for years. The virus won't disappear any time soon, but much else could if we're not careful.

eyeball · July 9, 2020

1 hour ago, cougar said:

Exactly. Debt is not real.

Apparently the collateral will make it worth throwing Canadians out of Canada.

Stands to reason we'll be told to vacate. I don't know about anyone else but my lender made it pretty clear I'll be told to vacate my home if I can't play my debt so...

CITIZEN_2015 · July 9, 2020

1 hour ago, taxme said:

Are you ever a believer in nonsense. This plandemic has now kept Canada in debt forever, and all thanks to the political thieves in Ottawa who could careless about how they continue to blow our tax dollars. Canadians are well known for never wanting to fight the real issues. They prefer silly ass ones to fight over.

No I am a believer in people first, because this is what make a country and makes it great. The well being of citizens first and foremost and as I said we will take care of the debt when the storm is over and over time. You preferred that the debt was near zero but millions of Canadians starving or homeless unable to feed themselves and their children losing the homes and life but this is not what I wish. I prefer 300 billion or more in debt and we will pay it later. All these measures to help Canadians by Trudeau government are temporary measures. Debt will gradually disappear once this pandemic is over.

bush_cheney2004 · July 9, 2020

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I can only speak for Ontario, but I have to say our provincial government has been very focused and effective on the COVID front, but as I expected, there's incredible constipation on the reopening front. We've reopened so far in a quite responsible way, but the most important economic factor will be the return to school. If we can't get students back to school on a daily basis, I don't think we can return the economy to capacity. If people can't work and young people can't learn in a serious way, our economies will limp on and our debt will skyrocket.

All true, but all the more reason that people just have to get on with it respecting as much mitigation as possible. Quebec criticized the federal government for not providing guidance on returning to school, and is using the American CDC's instead.

If the increased dole and pogey goes on for the rest of the year, it will be harder to wean workers off of it as many earn more by not returning to the labour force.

Debt is going to increase either way, but it is a matter of choice for how much.

Quote

... The virus won't disappear any time soon, but much else could if we're not careful.

That's the reality that more and more people are beginning to embrace. The only way out is to go right through it.

taxme · July 9, 2020

34 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

True, but they can't be like Americans because the Canadian identity is defined as NOT American. So overt patriotism is frowned upon.

Funny part is that massive deficits and rising debt is very, very American !!

Indeed, it would appear as though patriotism and nationalism are frowned upon here in Canada. The reason for that is that the majority of Canadians are not patriotic or nationalist enough but appear to be more like a bunch of leftist liberals and socialists, and some communists thrown in the mix. All they believe in is more government, more taxes, and less freedom. They all are full blown globalists. It's funny how both our governments love big and rising debts. :unsure:

Zeitgeist · July 9, 2020

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

All true, but all the more reason that people just have to get on with it respecting as much mitigation as possible. Quebec criticized the federal government for not providing guidance on returning to school, and is using the American CDC's instead.

If the increased dole and pogey goes on for the rest of the year, it will be harder to wean workers off of it as many earn more by not returning to the labour force.

Debt is going to increase either way, but it is a matter of choice for how much.

That's the reality that more and more people are beginning to embrace. The only way out is to go right through it.

I'd like to think that we can all get back at it without seeing a rise in cases, and we'll do what we can, but we may have to accept the Swedish model. Good public health hygiene and good physical health has allowed Sweden to keep its schools and economy open while having a lower death rate than some jurisdictions that shut everything down, such as Quebec and the UK. We can reopen schools, emphasize fitness, enforce public hygiene, get most people back to full-time work, and wrap up the CERB and wage subsidies if we get tough about the right things. That would end the debt hemorrhaging.

bush_cheney2004 · July 9, 2020

6 minutes ago, taxme said:

Indeed, it would appear as though patriotism and nationalism are frowned upon here in Canada. The reason for that is that the majority of Canadians are not patriotic or nationalist enough but appear to be more like a bunch of leftist liberals and socialists, and some communists thrown in the mix. All they believe in is more government, more taxes, and less freedom. They all are full blown globalists. It's funny how both our governments love big and rising debts.

My neighbour is a Canadian woman who moved to the "states" to live with her Yankee husband years ago. She proudly flies the mapleleaf flag on Canada Day and during the Olympics, no doubt because this is expected and respected behaviour in most parts of the U.S. She feels "free" to do so in her adopted country (U.S.).

The last time Canada went hog wild on debt, Chretien and Martin slashed federal funding for healthcare to the provinces. That won't go over well this time around.

bush_cheney2004 · July 9, 2020

11 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I'd like to think that we can all get back at it without seeing a rise in cases, and we'll do what we can, but we may have to accept the Swedish model. Good public health hygiene and good physical health has allowed Sweden to keep its schools and economy open while having a lower death rate than some jurisdictions that shut everything down, such as Quebec and the UK. We can reopen schools, emphasize fitness, enforce public hygiene, get most people back to full-time work, and wrap up the CERB and wage subsidies if we get tough about the right things. That would end the debt hemorrhaging.

The Swedish model has not worked out so well economically. Canada needs to do what works for Canada specifically given the different regions and economic dependencies. The mostly closed border is an opportunity to get more spending in Canada from within the country instead of wishing and hoping for a return of previous patterns that may never happen. More manufacturing in Canada would also provide growth and better readiness for future disruptions.

Make Canada Great Again !

taxme · July 9, 2020

6 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

No I am a believer in people first, because this is what make a country and makes it great. The well being of citizens first and foremost and as I said we will take care of the debt when the storm is over and over time. You preferred that the debt was near zero but millions of Canadians starving or homeless unable to feed themselves and their children losing the homes and life but this is not what I wish. I prefer 300 billion or more in debt and we will pay it later. All these measures to help Canadians by Trudeau government are temporary measures. Debt will gradually disappear once this pandemic is over.

Just by Canadians demanding that we stop all foreign aid to the rest of the world every year which would help our own people tremendously, and maybe help them get out of poverty and find housing. Hundreds of billions of our tax dollars have been given to the rest of the world for several decades now which has helped balloon the debt. The people in those countries are still no better off today with all of our tax dollars that has been wasted giving them our tax dollars. Foreign aid does not work. Plus the fact that our politicians keep bringing in hundreds of thousands of legal and illegal so called refugees that have also cost the Canadian taxpayer's hundreds of billions of their tax dollars every year.

So, when are Canadians like you ever going to get it? When are Canadians like you ever going to show some concern as to how your tax dollars are being blown? How the hell can Canada get out of debt if people like you could careless about the debt. It's no wonder I have pretty much had it with this sick pathetic country. Common sense and logic and intelligence has pretty much disappeared from Canada. All we get now is just more stupid liberal and socialist programs and agendas that do nothing to try and get Canada out of debt or try to make it great again. The debt will never gradually disappear after this plandemic is over. It will just add more to the Canadian debt. Just your tax dollars that will be disappearing for decades now. So, stop acting like you care. You are all just talk. You really do not care all that much, right? .

taxme · July 9, 2020

25 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

My neighbour is a Canadian woman who moved to the "states" to live with her Yankee husband years ago. She proudly flies the mapleleaf flag on Canada Day and during the Olympics, no doubt because this is expected and respected behaviour in most parts of the U.S. She feels "free" to do so in her adopted country (U.S.).

The last time Canada went hog wild on debt, Chretien and Martin slashed federal funding for healthcare to the provinces. That won't go over well this time around.

While foreign aid and free tax dollars are going up and up to legal and illegal so called refugees every day which are both allowing Canada to go hog wild deeper into debt. This seems to be okay with most Canadians all of the time.

I wonder if your Canadian neighbor would like to move back to Canada, and live there, and give up her American citizenship? I doubt very much that she would do that. Obtaining an American citizenship is not easy to get. I am pretty sure that a Canadian citizenship is quite easy to get these days in Canada. Just cross the border into Canada from America illegally, and viola, you have a very good chance of staying in Canada. Just saying.

cougar · July 9, 2020

59 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I don't know about anyone else but my lender made it pretty clear I'll be told to vacate my home if I can't play my debt so...

I am speaking about the National Debt, not your personal debt. Your personal debt is very real, but only if most Canadians are not in a situation of imminent eviction. In that case, your debt will become imaginary just like the National debt.

Why do you think Trudeau is now throwing money on closed businesses and unemployed people? Because the system recognizes it will collapse if they do not do exactly that.

bush_cheney2004 · July 9, 2020

6 minutes ago, taxme said:

I wonder if your Canadian neighbor would like to move back to Canada, and live there, and give up her American citizenship? I doubt very much that she would do that. Obtaining an American citizenship is not easy to get. I am pretty sure that a Canadian citizenship is quite easy to get these days in Canada. Just cross the border into Canada from America illegally, and viola, you have a very good chance of staying in Canada. Just saying.

No, she never got U.S. citizenship. She has permanent residency. Her Yankee husband works for the state department so that might be a complication for him.

But on the matter of more refugees and immigrants for Canada, that also runs up the debt, directly and indirectly. Trudeau may have to reduce the numbers.

taxme · July 9, 2020

41 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

No, she never got U.S. citizenship. She has permanent residency. Her Yankee husband works for the state department so that might be a complication for him.

But on the matter of more refugees and immigrants for Canada, that also runs up the debt, directly and indirectly. Trudeau may have to reduce the numbers.

His royal dip chit will never want to reduce the numbers of legal or illegal so called refugees from coming to Canada. Trudeau is a globalist who only wants to flood Canada with millions of third world useless immigrants as much as he can. The buffoon hates Canada. Hundreds of billions of our tax dollars are being blown every year on new legal and illegal so called new immigrants, and except for maybe one or two members here, the rest could careless about it all. It's hard to believe that there are so many liberal socialist globalists here in Canada. It's no wonder our Canadian debt can only rise, and never fall. Obviously, these twits enjoy paying as much taxes as they can. They always shout out, I am Canadian, tax me more.

ironstone · July 9, 2020

I would swap out Bill Morneau to get Paul Martin any day of the week. Why does sustainability matter in everything except the finances of the country? This Chinese virus has hurt the entire world economy and just about every country was unprepared for it. My own opinion is that Trudeau has been far too reckless with his spending. I'm sure we all know of people collecting CERB or CEWS money and the one's I personally know of absolutely love it. I'm worried about hefty tax hikes which will surely come at some point.

Trudeau is doing very well in the current polls but keep in mind he isn't facing any tough questions while Parliament is shut down.

CITIZEN_2015 · July 10, 2020

2 hours ago, taxme said:

Just by Canadians demanding that we stop all foreign aid to the rest of the world every year which would help our own people tremendously, and maybe help them get out of poverty and find housing. Hundreds of billions of our tax dollars have been given to the rest of the world for several decades now which has helped balloon the debt. The people in those countries are still no better off today with all of our tax dollars that has been wasted giving them our tax dollars. Foreign aid does not work. Plus the fact that our politicians keep bringing in hundreds of thousands of legal and illegal so called refugees that have also cost the Canadian taxpayer's hundreds of billions of their tax dollars every year.

Canada's foreign aid is only 6 billion dollars a year. You are one of those who blames everyone else for their problems especially foreigners, immigrants and other citizens. When you are going to admit if you have misfortunes then it is your own fault and stop pointing fingers to others especially weaker defenseless people?

Edited July 10, 2020 by CITIZEN_2015