The failure of the western intelligence services

[xul]

Israeli media report that CIA alerted US, NATO and Israel on coronavirus outbreak in China in November.

US alerted Israel, NATO to disease outbreak in China in November

 

Quote

US alerted Israel, NATO to disease outbreak in China in November — TV report

White House was reportedly not interested in the intel, but it was passed onto NATO, IDF; when it reached Israel’s Health Ministry, ‘nothing was done’

S intelligence agencies alerted Israel to the coronavirus outbreak in China already in November, Israeli television reported Thursday.

According to Channel 12 news, the US intelligence community became aware of the emerging disease in Wuhan in the second week of that month and drew up a classified document.

 But wait a minute....we all know the first cases of "Unexplained Pneumonia" (it is now called COVID-19)were reported by Chinese doctor Zhang Ji Xian, who was head doctor of Department of Respiration of a hospital in Wuhan city, on December 26, 2019, when she treated 2 senior patients who claimed having fever and cough. She asked them took CT imagining for precaution since they were elder and found their CT images were different from common  pneumonia or flu which alerted her and she reported these cases to the local authority. Another Chinese doctor Li Wenliang, who was an ophthalmologist in Wuhan city，posted a post on Chinese social media warning a possible SARS-liked virus outbreak in Wuhan on December 30 after reading an internal instruction from Wuhan local authority based on Dr. Zhang's discovery.

So nobody in the world was supposed to know there would be a coronavirus outbreak in China before Dec 26, 2019 ........except......except CIA?

Edited April 18, 2020 by xul

[Rue]

15 hours ago, Independent1986 said:

This topic is to discuss where did the western intelligence agencies failed in regards to the coronavirus pandemic ?

Nancy Pelosi said "Come to China Town" and Donald Trump said "It is a democrat hoax". In 1 week both of them were talking about how to shut down the country.

Do you blame the coronavirus spread on the western intelligence services ?

Intelligence services are layers on layers of information...some objective, some subjective...often garbled, disjointed ambiguously as and imprecisely word and often filled with disinformation, ...i.e. a tidbit of truth surrounded by false info to distract from the obvious conclusion.

All such info varies in content  ranging from intellectual trade secrets stolen, to broken into firewalls spying on memos or gossip as to who screws who. 

Most intelligence is never complete as it has special cues or info put in to it  that when triggered caused you to draw the wrong conclusion.

Most intelligence is risk management and trend analysis  which is educated guesses as to what did and might happen and how to prevent it.

For it to be truly accurate you need it first hand and tested using scientific methodology.

There is very good work on analyzing people through handwriting, certain physical behaviour but it has limits. Knowing what info to act on and when and how is impossible to know..sometimes  years later some info comes out by declassification but even then it's been screened and filtered.

People look to blame someone when things go wrong...well that is many bureaucrats in this covidv19 case probably starting in China.

Next we create conspiracies because they provide us quick to understand explanations when truth is impossible to perceive.

The gnome for the covid 19 is not the same as one's made by humans in labs.   The stories you read are all deflections. Unwashed hands in dirty wet markets handling meat of bats and other mammals passed it on. Dirty hands and poor hygiene conditions started this virus.

When proper food handling practices are in place there are no such issues. Leviticus in the Bible in its day tried to codify this handling of meat. It's not a new concept.  Jews,Bhuddists, Taoists, Hindus, Jains, Muslims, Siekhs, certain Christian sects, for example have food handling practices.

Common sense of humans failed. I am not sure whether we are intelligent. Seems we do  something dumb and dumber daily be cause of our arrogance and belief we are mightier than the rules of nature.

Then again we also have those trying to learn from the mistakes to not repeat them. In that sense intelligence analysis can be used as valuable historic reference to help prevent future mistakes...so its benefits if used will be invisible to you.

Regards

Casper, The Spectre, Deadman, The Phantom Stranger, Bond, James, Maxwell Smart, Mat Helm, Mrs. Emma Peel

 

Edited April 18, 2020 by Rue

[WestCanMan]

14 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The 'we' here is Canada? I can see this project getting a lot of Canadian travellers, and probably innocent locals too, into a whole load of trouble. 

I shouldn't have said we, it's actually America's dollars that were wasted on the WHO, and America's intelligence assets in China that were killed or jailed by the Chinese gov't.

 

[Rue]

6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I shouldn't have said we, it's actually America's dollars that were wasted on the WHO, and America's intelligence assets in China that were killed or jailed by the Chinese gov't.

 

The WHO's executive is a bought and paid for stooge. Welcome to the UN. It's one stoogefest of bribed baboons. 

[WestCanMan]

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

Don't forget Trump and his sycophants were all busily attacking the CIA and other US intelligence agencies as being part and parcel of the Deepstate just before this pandemic broke out. 

Don't forget that Trump was proven to be correct about that eyeball. Thats kind of a major omission.

It's like criticizing the Americans for fighting against the Japanese in WWII without mentioning Pearl Harbour.

The FBI made 17 significant errors and omissions just in the FISA warrant application process. They also propagandized the fake investigation that they started. Their leader fearlessly lied on national TV over and over again to malign the POTUS. The FBI kept the fake investigation rolling in pretend mode, after they admittedly knew that there was no evidence and the investigation was a sham, for close to a year which extended the spectre of Trump's possible guilt through the mid-term elections. Top FBI officials had to be fired/demoted because of their illegal activity and severe, pervasive bias.

But Trump was wrong to say or do anything about it eyeball? He should just let them continue to operate as a criminal entity, just in case there comes a point in time when they suddenly decide to follow the rule of law again?

That's incredibly stupid eyeball. It's like not stopping a fentanyl dealer from getting his junk out onto the street just in case they just randomly decide to go fight crime instead of selling drugs.

 

[WestCanMan]

7 minutes ago, Rue said:

Welcome to the UN. It's one stoogefest of bribed baboons. 

Sadly that's an understatement. 

[Shady]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

And how could you possibly know that?

Because China is an opaque country, and the intelligence community has been wrong or caught off guard several times in recent history.  But provide evidence of you think everything was known.

[eyeball]

11 minutes ago, Shady said:

Because China is an opaque country, and the intelligence community has been wrong or caught off guard several times in recent history.  But provide evidence of you think everything was known.

There's is no evidence or even suggestion that intelligence agencies knew everything there is however evidence that everyone is spying on one another so there's little reason to disbelieve intelligence wouldn't see a disease outbreak big enough that is was describe as being potentially cataclysmic. 

[Argus]

47 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Don't forget that Trump was proven to be correct about that eyeball. Thats kind of a major omission.

The idea of a 'deepstate' is something which springs from the lunatic fringe, and is easily disproved by the fact the fat orange idiot is still alive.

Any halfway competent deep state would have arranged for him to die of some 'natural' ailment shortly after he was elected.

[Argus]

Concerns about what is now known to be the novel coronavirus pandemic were detailed in a November intelligence report by the military's National Center for Medical Intelligence (NCMI), according to two officials familiar with the document’s contents. 

The report was the result of analysis of wire and computer intercepts, coupled with satellite images. It raised alarms because an out-of-control disease would pose a serious threat to U.S. forces in Asia -- forces that depend on the NCMI’s work. And it paints a picture of an American government that could have ramped up mitigation and containment efforts far earlier to prepare for a crisis poised to come home.  

"Analysts concluded it could be a cataclysmic event," one of the sources said of the NCMI’s report. "It was then briefed multiple times to" the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon’s Joint Staff and the White House. 

https://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/2020/04/intelligence-report-warned-of-covid-19-crisis-as-early-as-november-sources.html

A small, specialized unit within the Canadian military's intelligence branch began producing detailed warnings and analysis about the emergence of the deadly novel coronavirus in Wuhan, China in early January, CBC News has learned.

The medical intelligence (MEDINT) cell within Canadian Forces Intelligence Command (CFINTCOM) is tucked away on the edges of the country's security and defence establishment.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/coronavirus-pandemic-covid-canadian-military-intelligence-wuhan-1.5528381

Edited April 18, 2020 by Argus

[xul]

FOX NEWS:

Taiwan releases December email to WHO showing unheeded warning about coronavirus

So, Taiwan warned WHO but forgot to warn its master President Trump? What an ungrateful way in return to the protection from US.....

 

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, xul said:

FOX NEWS:

Taiwan releases December email to WHO showing unheeded warning about coronavirus

So, Taiwan warned WHO but forgot to warn its master President Trump? What an ungrateful way in return to the protection from US.....

 

 

WHO doesn't even recognize Taiwan...purposely ignored so as not to offend China.

[WestCanMan]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

The idea of a 'deepstate' is something which springs from the lunatic fringe, and is easily disproved by the fact the fat orange idiot is still alive.

Whether or not there was effectively a deepstate operating on behalf of the Dems during the timeframe that eyeball specified isn't really up for debate anymore. A co-ordinated character assassination was undertaken by major elements of the MSM, the Dems, and the FBI. There's proof the MSM knew it was fake [Van Jones casually admitted it early on], the FBI admitted that they knew long before the mid-terms that they had zero actual evidence of collusion, and the Dems created the false dossier so they knew it was fake as well. 

How organized they are/were, how big they are/were, and whether or not they had an officially recognized leader is another matter which is open to debate. 

Quote

Any halfway competent deep state would have arranged for him to die of some 'natural' ailment shortly after he was elected.

Criminals don't murder cops because they know that their crimes will go from the back-burner, where they only remain for a short time until being forever forgotten, right to the forefront of police forces nation-wide for as long as it takes to be solved. Assassinating a President in 2020 is no easy task and it wouldn't fade into obscurity like the sham investigation conducted by the Dems and FBI [which still has millions of people hoodwinked]. 

[xul]

14 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

WHO doesn't even recognize Taiwan...purposely ignored so as not to offend China.

My question is:

1) If TW did know something and did warn WHO, why didn't it warn US? 

2) Or TW did warn US but their email was thrown into some trash bin by Trump administration.

3) Or it is just another fake news which created by Trump and his crony FOX NEWS to draw American public attention from his failure to handle the pandemic properly...

Edited April 18, 2020 by xul

[WestCanMan]

17 minutes ago, Argus said:

Concerns about what is now known to be the novel coronavirus pandemic were detailed in a November intelligence report by the military's National Center for Medical Intelligence (NCMI), according to two officials familiar with the document’s contents. 

The report was the result of analysis of wire and computer intercepts, coupled with satellite images. It raised alarms because an out-of-control disease would pose a serious threat to U.S. forces in Asia -- forces that depend on the NCMI’s work. And it paints a picture of an American government that could have ramped up mitigation and containment efforts far earlier to prepare for a crisis poised to come home.  

"Analysts concluded it could be a cataclysmic event," one of the sources said of the NCMI’s report. "It was then briefed multiple times to" the Defense Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon’s Joint Staff and the White House. 

https://crofsblogs.typepad.com/h5n1/2020/04/intelligence-report-warned-of-covid-19-crisis-as-early-as-november-sources.html

It's not just the Republicans that get access to this type of military intelligence. The Chair of the House Intelligence Committee is a Demonrat. 

Why were the Dems calling the blocking of flights from China "racist and xenophobic" if they knew that the covid outbreak "could be a cataclysmic event"?

Were the Dems honestly engaging in a partisan political disinformation campaign to aid in the spread of a deadly virus on their home soil? 

[WestCanMan]

3 minutes ago, xul said:

My question is:

1) If TW did know something and did warn WHO, why didn't it warn US? 

2) Or TW did warn US but their email was thrown into some trash bin by Trump administration.

3) Or it is just another fake news which created by Trump and his crony FOX NEWS to draw American public attention from his failure to handle the pandemic properly...

1) Back when Taiwan warned the WHO, they probably didn't realize that the WHO was entirely corrupted. Were you aware of the depths of the WHO's treachery back then? Half of the USA is still convinced that the WHO is out there trying to save the world right now.

2) Maybe Trump initiated his travel ban based on info that he got from Taiwan. He certainly didn't get that from the WHO. They called it racist.  

3) If Taiwan warned the WHO, then why doesn't the WHO remember who Taiwan is? That's odd. I'd remember a warning of that magnitude & accuracy from such a short time ago.

[bush_cheney2004]

8 minutes ago, xul said:

My question is:

1) If TW did know something and did warn WHO, why didn't it warn US? 

2) Or TW did warn US but their email was thrown into some trash bin by Trump administration.

3) Or it is just another fake news which created by Trump and his crony FOX NEWS to draw American public attention from his failure to handle the pandemic properly...

 

It is not fake news...there is video of the Canadian toady doctor that works for WHO denying questions about Taiwan.

 

 

[Argus]

17 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Whether or not there was effectively a deepstate operating on behalf of the Dems during the timeframe that eyeball specified isn't really up for debate anymore. A co-ordinated character assassination was undertaken by major elements of the MSM, the Dems, and the FBI.

Bullshit.

Quote

Criminals don't murder cops because they know that their crimes will go from the back-burner,

The notion that lazy, fat-assed scumbag is a cop is laughable. He's more like the dumb, classless son of an organized crime figure wearing gaudy, overpriced suits and greedily trying to steal anything he can.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Argus

[Argus]

12 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

It's not just the Republicans that get access to this type of military intelligence. The Chair of the House Intelligence Committee is a Demonrat. 

Why were the Dems calling the blocking of flights from China "racist and xenophobic" if they knew that the covid outbreak "could be a cataclysmic event"?

Were the Dems honestly engaging in a partisan political disinformation campaign to aid in the spread of a deadly virus on their home soil? 

I'm not required to explain the stupidity of the Democratic leadership. I think their identity politics whining is disgusting.

[WestCanMan]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

It is not fake news...there is video of the Canadian toady doctor that works for WHO denying questions about Taiwan.

 

 

Canada's contribution to fighting covid thus far: 

Calling travel bans racist, calling masks counter-productive, covering the WHO's tracks, training Chinese virologists at their BSL4 labs. 

We're still exporting Dr's to the world, we just don't make them like Norm Bethune anymore. 

[WestCanMan]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

Bullshit.

The notion that lazy, fat-assed scumbag is a cop is laughable. He's more like the dumb, classless son of an organized crime figure wearing gaudy, overpriced suits and greedily trying to steal anything he can.

You sound like a belligerent drunk Argus. 

Dems, the FBI and the MSM were the real colluders in the Russian collusion scandal. 

Edited April 18, 2020 by WestCanMan

[xul]

36 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

It's not just the Republicans that get access to this type of military intelligence. The Chair of the House Intelligence Committee is a Demonrat. 

Why were the Dems calling the blocking of flights from China "racist and xenophobic" if they knew that the covid outbreak "could be a cataclysmic event"?

Were the Dems honestly engaging in a partisan political disinformation campaign to aid in the spread of a deadly virus on their home soil? 

Because the blocking of flights from China is proven useless, since US's situation is far worse than Canada, which didn't block flights from China.

Just imagine if you were the CEO of 3M and flew to China in January because there was a big mask sale event in China,  and then you couldn't directly come back to US because of the flights ban. What would you do? Stay in China forever?  What you had to do was just to fly to Europe and stay there 14 days as Trump administration required, then flew back to US.

And just think, stay in EU 14 days.....far greater chance to be infected in EU and bring virus back to US.

Canada didn't ban flights from China but asked every passengers self-quarantined, which is proven a more effective way to block virus into Canada. Canada has far more Chinese population ratio than US. If the current outbreak here was directly from China, the Chinese population here should be infected in the first place. But how many Chinese could you see laying on sick beds of Canadian hospitals?

Canada and US governments's mistake is they didn't take the same measure on travelers from Europe in time. If you just have a look at the covid-19 infection map from Canada government website, you should know that the current outbreak isn't directly related to travelers from China, since the province which is closest to China and has most Chinese population even couldn't make the top 3.....

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection.html?topic=tilelink

Edited April 18, 2020 by xul

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, xul said:

Because the blocking of flights from China is proven useless, since US's situation is far worse than Canada, which didn't block flights from China.

Just imagine if you were the CEO of 3M and flew to China in January because there was a big mask sale event in China,  and then you couldn't directly come back to US because of the flights ban. What would you do? Stay in China forever?  What you had to do was just to fly to Europe and stay there 14 days as Trump administration required, then flew back to US.

And just think, stay in EU 14 days.....far greater chance to be infected in EU and bring virus back to US.

Canada didn't ban flights from China but asked every passengers self-quarantined, which is proven a more effective way to block virus into Canada. Canada has far more Chinese population ratio than US. If the current outbreak here was directly from China, the Chinese population here should be infected in the first place. But how many Chinese could you see laying on sick beds of Canadian hospitals?

Canada and US governments's mistake is they didn't take the same measure on travelers from Europe in time. If you just have a look at the covid-19 infection map from Canada government website, you should know that the current outbreak isn't directly related traveler's from China, since the province which is closest to China and has most Chinese population even couldn't make the top 3.....

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection.html?topic=tilelink

Everything you said there is wrong xul.

1) blocking flights from China obviously wasn't useless, that's nothing more than an idiotic partisan political attack with no basis in reality. The whole concept of quarantining people is based on the fact that keeping sick people where they are, and not letting them mingle in unaffected populations, is THE KEY FACTOR in slowing the spread of a virus. 

2) The US didn't ban their own people from coming back to the US at any point, and yeah, being quarantined sucks but the CEO of 3M is just a person and a potential carrier. 

3) Canada has less covid patients because NYC has 1/5th of our population living in 800 sk qm, and the population of BC crams into the NYC subway every day. The population of NYC actually gets as high as 11M sometimes, if you count visitors. That's almost 1/3rd of our population in EIGHT HUNDRED sq km instead of ELEVEN MILLION sq km. You're comparing The Big Apple to a blueberry.

4) We didn't have a massive outbreak because of our geography, not because of anything that we did right. Taiwan has a massive, dense population and they did things right. South Korea has a massive, dense population and they did things right. Canada didn't screen passengers, we allowed people to come here and voluntarily self-quarantine, and we got lucky. 

5) the timing of spring break had a lot to do with infection rates, because Canadians mingling in international airports was a key factor in bringing the virus home. Quebec had their spring break before they started social distancing. BC's spring break came after the province was already shut down, and our densest city only has 700,000 people in it. Population density is a key factor in virus spread. I don't know why Alberta was disproportionately affected. 

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

It's not just the Republicans that get access to this type of military intelligence. The Chair of the House Intelligence Committee is a Demonrat. 

Why were the Dems calling the blocking of flights from China "racist and xenophobic" if they knew that the covid outbreak "could be a cataclysmic event"?

Were the Dems honestly engaging in a partisan political disinformation campaign to aid in the spread of a deadly virus on their home soil? 

Doing undesirable things to non-whites is racist.  I wonder if firing a non-whites will soon be not allowed, cuz colonialism et al.

Visible minority, people of colour, racial minority...all code words for non-whites.  Whites are oppressors, non-whites are victims.  So much guilt, nothing left to do but for whitey to hate themselves.  Whites aren't even human any more, but a sub-species of human so evil beyond belief, while non-whites would never do the same if in the same situation.

So we can't ban travel from China ok, at least our white male PM can't.  Guess we should only have impoverished disabled aboriginal cis LGBT women of colour as the PM from now on so they can make all the tough calls like Chinese travel bans.  We see that only non-white comedians can make racist jokes these days, it should transfer to politics.

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, xul said:

Because the blocking of flights from China is proven useless, since US's situation is far worse than Canada, which didn't block flights from China.

So you support lifting flight restrictions between Canada and China?  You're brilliant!  Maybe we should all hang out with Chinese people in Chinatown too, maybe some hugs and kisses too.  I wonder which location has a higher % of people with COVID:  Chinatown in NYC or Yellowknife?

We also need to stop telling gay men to wear condoms just because statistically the tranmission of HIV is higher among their population...i mean it's homophobic!

I hate facts and statistics that are racist, sexist, and homophobic!  TRIGGERED