Conservative Party leadership

[jacee]

I think Peter MacKay may have just lost the race. 

It's suspended now due to COVID19, but MacKay is oblivious as to why. 

It appears that Peter MacKay thinks COVID19 is all a plot against his leadership campaign.

That's a kind of delusional paranoid narcissism we can certainly do without in our leadership. 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/mackay-permanent-opposition-leader-an-essential-service-amid-covid-19-outbreak-1.4870070

When Solomon said that the COVID-19 pandemic is the reason the others want the campaign delayed, MacKay replied, "Is it?"

"Look, this is a competition," said MacKay.

"The competition has being going on for some time now, all the rules have been the same for everyone, this has not been an advantage to anyone, we are midway through the process now, the final determination of the ballot has been made, we’re continuing on, it’s causing no harm."

Still, there are those who have had some harsh words for MacKay as a result of his decision to continue campaigning and pushing for the race to stay the course -- or be sped up.

Green Party MP Elizabeth May told Solomon in a Thursday interview that she wasn't impressed with MacKay's approach.

"I don't know if Peter can get much lower in deciding to try to make hay out of this," May said.

Edited March 27, 2020 by jacee

[Moonbox]

Sort of exaggerated the article in your analysis, but he is being a tool.  

I think the Conservatives need to do some serious soul-searching to put a contender out there that can contend with Trudeau.  McKay is not that man.  They need someone younger, and someone new.  

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Sort of exaggerated the article in your analysis, but he is being a tool.  

I think the Conservatives need to do some serious soul-searching to put a contender out there that can contend with Trudeau.  McKay is not that man.  They need someone younger, and someone new.  

Don't forget someone not retarded.

[Argus]

20 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Don't forget someone not retarded.

He's not retarded. He's just a typical politician with no principles or policies or vision whoring himself out to various voter blocks. He's currently owned by the Irvings but is for rent on various policy issues if you have the money.

[Moonbox]

I just want to see someone who's not living in the 1980's still.  I saw this article in the Globe a little while ago, and it echoes a lot of my sentiments.  

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-tories-need-a-leader-with-vision-or-risk-losing-young/

Natalie Pon, a cool, smart chick from out west and a fair bit younger than your average conservative, lays it out pretty clearly.  Hanging on to outdated social conservative values, particularly on gay marriage and stuff like that, is going to keep the conservatives out of power for a long time.  The ship has sailed on a lot of these matters, and as the younger generation continues to take on a bigger and bigger role in politics and the economy, ignoring them in favor of Bible-Thumpers in Quebec or the Prairies, or clinging to the Harper-era old guard is going to leave Trudeau and pals firmly entrenched.  

[Army Guy]

4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I just want to see someone who's not living in the 1980's still.  I saw this article in the Globe a little while ago, and it echoes a lot of my sentiments.  

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-tories-need-a-leader-with-vision-or-risk-losing-young/

Natalie Pon, a cool, smart chick from out west and a fair bit younger than your average conservative, lays it out pretty clearly.  Hanging on to outdated social conservative values, particularly on gay marriage and stuff like that, is going to keep the conservatives out of power for a long time.  The ship has sailed on a lot of these matters, and as the younger generation continues to take on a bigger and bigger role in politics and the economy, ignoring them in favor of Bible-Thumpers in Quebec or the Prairies, or clinging to the Harper-era old guard is going to leave Trudeau and pals firmly entrenched.  

Like every organization , they all need a constant flow of younger Canadians to be involved in politics in some form, just to survive. I agree, were I seem to slide off track here is I'm not comfortable of a 24 year old being say the minister of health, or some other major or minor appointment, call me crazy but I would prefer someone with some life experience...Hey I not a real fan of MPs not having any experience in their given depts., or atleast a working knowledge of them...

"Hanging on to outdated social conservative values," these values you talk about used to be universally accepted by all parties, and were once declared Canadian values. And there are still a lot of Canadians that still believe in them. Today these Canadians are forced to hide their true beliefs or opinions keep them to themselves,  while other Canadians are forcing their beliefs upon others, suing others in a court of law  because they did not use the right gender, I mean come on, what ever happened to treating all Canadians the same...LGBT group have powerful lobby groups hence why all the special attention... To many classes of citizens in Canada and it depends on your lobby group on how much attention they get...and how they rate in our society. 

Same as abortion rights, massive lobby group , laws get changed and old values get sent to the basement to be punished as if they were some how wrong...then your slotted into a group known as the bible thumpers, another group of people who have been sent to the basement....because they have bad juju , and no lobby group at all. we do it all the time, look at native rights...poor living conditions, poor water quality, for the past 40 years nothing is being done, no lobby group....sent to the basement...but hey if your gay to the front of the line...just my opinion...

Maybe what we need is for all Canadians to be treated as one group, the same way...with no group being more important than the other, want to go to church giver, or hold religious values,  it should not be held against a person....want to be gay giver, I don't care, but that is not going to happen anytime soon...

[OftenWrong]

19 hours ago, jacee said:

Green Party MP Elizabeth May told Solomon in a Thursday interview that she wasn't impressed with MacKay's approach.

 

"I don't know if Peter can get much lower in deciding to try to make hay out of this," May said.

Interesting, I don't see him making hay of this, but everyone else trying to. I agree that wherever possible, we must allow life to continue and forget about the virus.

Edited March 28, 2020 by OftenWrong
snipped quote

[jacee]

On 3/28/2020 at 7:51 AM, OftenWrong said:

Interesting, I don't see him making hay of this, but everyone else trying to. I agree that wherever possible, we must allow life to continue and forget about the virus.

CPC has suspended the leadership race.

If Peter MacKay can't change gears in the face of new circumstances, he's not leadership material, imo. 

Edited March 29, 2020 by jacee

[OftenWrong]

40 minutes ago, jacee said:

If Peter MacKay can't change gears in the face of new circumstances, he's not leadership material, imo. 

It's also possible for leaders to lead others when they've all gone astray. Because that is what leaders do - they lead.

[Moonbox]

On 3/27/2020 at 9:14 PM, Army Guy said:

Same as abortion rights, massive lobby group , laws get changed and old values get sent to the basement to be punished as if they were some how wrong...then your slotted into a group known as the bible thumpers, another group of people who have been sent to the basement....because they have bad juju , and no lobby group at all. we do it all the time, look at native rights...poor living conditions, poor water quality, for the past 40 years nothing is being done, no lobby group....sent to the basement...but hey if your gay to the front of the line...just my opinion...

Maybe what we need is for all Canadians to be treated as one group, the same way...with no group being more important than the other, want to go to church giver, or hold religious values,  it should not be held against a person....want to be gay giver, I don't care, but that is not going to happen anytime soon...

Nobody is holding anything "against" church goers.  In a way I admire people of faith.  It's when they start to impose THEIR values on everyone else and want to DENY other people's rights where I think they deserve ridicule.  Gay marriage or abortion "rights" are just that.  They're not huge budget items and, in fact, likely save the economy money rather than cost it.

If you bring up native "rights", on the other hand, that's a minefield of different issues including but definitely not limited to just "rights".  One of the biggest issues there, you can argue, is money.  Realistically there is no good solution on those matters, but the debate goes well beyond the issue of social values. 

There are, of course, lots of cases where social justice causes grossly overstep and get ridiculous, but I'm not asking the Conservative Party to get on board with everything.  I'm asking them to shelve the moronic notion that things like gay marriage or abortion are still up for worthwhile debate in government.  They're not.  They're basic human rights in Canada.  

[Army Guy]

2 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Nobody is holding anything "against" church goers.  In a way I admire people of faith.  It's when they start to impose THEIR values on everyone else and want to DENY other people's rights where I think they deserve ridicule.  Gay marriage or abortion "rights" are just that.  They're not huge budget items and, in fact, likely save the economy money rather than cost it.

If you bring up native "rights", on the other hand, that's a minefield of different issues including but definitely not limited to just "rights".  One of the biggest issues there, you can argue, is money.  Realistically there is no good solution on those matters, but the debate goes well beyond the issue of social values. 

There are, of course, lots of cases where social justice causes grossly overstep and get ridiculous, but I'm not asking the Conservative Party to get on board with everything.  I'm asking them to shelve the moronic notion that things like gay marriage or abortion are still up for worthwhile debate in government.  They're not.  They're basic human rights in Canada.  

Look I'm not a very religious man either, I will not blow smoke up your arse and say I have not prayed to the big guy in my time of need, lots of times as a soldier, when my each one of my kids were born, I will say I do not attend church except for funerals and weddings... That being said I find it a little ironic that you don't like it when they impose THIER  VALUES on everyone else, but it's ok for others to impose your beliefs on them...things like gay marriage and abortion rights are off the table.. And if you do want to talk about these issues well they deserve to be ridiculed…. key word here is ridiculed...I wonder what else is off limits ? 

Lots of things are basic rights, clean drinking water ? how about basic shelter ? don't get me wrong I'm not native or do I beat their drum, but when it comes down to being treated equal there are a lot of groups that have lagged behind like the few I mentioned, and those that are the squeaky wheel are getting all the attention because of powerful lobby groups...Today we think that if you do not dance with the LGBT folks your a piece of shit, and own all the ridicule you get......regardless of your own personal values or opinion..   

 

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Look I'm not a very religious man either, I will not blow smoke up your arse and say I have not prayed to the big guy in my time of need, lots of times as a soldier, when my each one of my kids were born, I will say I do not attend church except for funerals and weddings... That being said I find it a little ironic that you don't like it when they impose THIER  VALUES on everyone else, but it's ok for others to impose your beliefs on them...things like gay marriage and abortion rights are off the table.. And if you do want to talk about these issues well they deserve to be ridiculed…. key word here is ridiculed...I wonder what else is off limits ? 

Lots of things are basic rights, clean drinking water ? how about basic shelter ? don't get me wrong I'm not native or do I beat their drum, but when it comes down to being treated equal there are a lot of groups that have lagged behind like the few I mentioned, and those that are the squeaky wheel are getting all the attention because of powerful lobby groups...Today we think that if you do not dance with the LGBT folks your a piece of shit, and own all the ridicule you get......regardless of your own personal values or opinion..   

 

If someone tries to abort you, or force you to marry another man, just let me know and I'll sort them out for you.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

  They're basic human rights in Canada.  

And same sex marriage rights weren't granted until there was more than 51% in favour of them.  It renders the idea that religious folks have no influence as laughable.

That said, religious rights are being reduced, in my opinion, and the religious right is now forced to align with religious immigrant groups to get their God points.  There's no common understanding of morality, or - even worse - what "live and let live" actually means.

[Army Guy]

On 3/30/2020 at 4:18 PM, bcsapper said:

If someone tries to abort you, or force you to marry another man, just let me know and I'll sort them out for you.

Thanks bcsapper, I'll keep you in mind.. 

[Army Guy]

On 3/30/2020 at 5:43 PM, Michael Hardner said:

And same sex marriage rights weren't granted until there was more than 51% in favour of them.  It renders the idea that religious folks have no influence as laughable.

That said, religious rights are being reduced, in my opinion, and the religious right is now forced to align with religious immigrant groups to get their God points.  There's no common understanding of morality, or - even worse - what "live and let live" actually means.

I don't think no one has said that religious groups do not have any influence, but you can not compare the two in todays environment, I'd say it would be like 80 percent for LGBT, and 20 for religious groups in Canada.

Has there ever been a live and let live in any religion, most religions have been passed done by word of mouth then written as such as they can be interrupted 1000 different ways and made to say or preach almost anything you want to hear, I mean religion has been the cause of more war and death than anything else man has created.  

[Moonbox]

Again, the reason that religious groups don't have a lot of influence anymore is because a lot of the more vocal ones are trying to IMPOSE their belief systems on other people who don't believe them.  

The ability to practice religion and follow a system of beliefs is actually vigorously defended in Canada, just like abortion and gay marriage now are.  

One area in which I would say the federal government has failed miserably,  however, is with Quebec and the banning of religious symbols etc on public servants.  While I do think there's something to be said about not allowing public servants to hide their faces behind veils, I find it kind of despicable that the Quebec and Canadian governments don't explicitly and honestly explain that's what's really at issue.  Nobody cares if someone is wearing a Star, Cross, Crescent, Buddha etc... around their neck.  The overall ban seems to be a thinly-veiled (sorry for pun) way of targeting specific practices (hijab/niqab for example) and hiding it behind a more all-encompassing ban.  

The one thing I'll say about religious rights is that people should be free to believe or practice their religion unmolested, but only to the extent that they can be reasonably accommodated.  Where the law should be flexible to respect religious practices, those religions should in term be flexible with the the law and good public order.  

 

 

[Argus]

18 hours ago, Moonbox said:

One area in which I would say the federal government has failed miserably,  however, is with Quebec and the banning of religious symbols etc on public servants.  While I do think there's something to be said about not allowing public servants to hide their faces behind veils, I find it kind of despicable that the Quebec and Canadian governments don't explicitly and honestly explain that's what's really at issue.  Nobody cares if someone is wearing a Star, Cross, Crescent, Buddha etc... around their neck.  The overall ban seems to be a thinly-veiled (sorry for pun) way of targeting specific practices (hijab/niqab for example) and hiding it behind a more all-encompassing ban. 

Because most people don't like or trust Islam. They don't respect it's medieval beliefs, teachings and practices with regard to women and gays, and they are suspicious of a religion which spends much of it's time telling its worshipers how to treat non-believers (badly).

Edited April 3, 2020 by Argus

[Army Guy]

19 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Again, the reason that religious groups don't have a lot of influence anymore is because a lot of the more vocal ones are trying to IMPOSE their belief systems on other people who don't believe them.  

 

Perhaps i'm not understanding this correctly, did you not just say that religious groups should be see quote below, so are you saying all these other groups such as LGBT, anti abortion, etc groups should be ridiculed as well.  because there is not a level playing field in our nation , when it comes down to debating any of these subjects, mostly spilt along the left and right, both sides do not want to debate, nor do they want to listen to the other side period....we are entrenched in our believes and thats it...well the left side more than the right...

Quote

It's when they start to impose THEIR values on everyone else and want to DENY other people's rights where I think they deserve ridicule.

The right to practice religion is defended, the morals and values that come out of that are not. It will not be long before religion in North America will be in a museum some place...

And to borrow Michaels phase maybe we would be better off "to live and let live" on these topics atleast, but that would mean some sort of compromise, and don't see that happening soon.

[Marocc]

On 4/3/2020 at 12:36 AM, Moonbox said:

Again, the reason that religious groups don't have a lot of influence anymore is because a lot of the more vocal ones are trying to IMPOSE their belief systems on other people who don't believe them.  

A lot more than..? Do you have any examples?

On 4/2/2020 at 4:40 AM, Army Guy said:

religion has been the cause of more war and death than anything else man has created.  

Nonsense.

(excuses exist)

And, religion wasn't created by man.

[Marocc]

6 hours ago, Argus said:

Because most people don't like or trust Islam.

Source?

[Marocc]

On 3/30/2020 at 9:32 PM, Moonbox said:

They're basic human rights in Canada.  

They don't have to be. Use your imagination.

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, Marocc said:

A lot more than..? Do you have any examples?

Nonsense.

(excuses exist)

And, religion wasn't created by man.

Sure, LGBT, Anti Abortion groups has a much bigger following and lobby group within North America.

Really, I'll give you one source , I'm sure if you goggled it you can find hundreds. Palestine, Lebanon, Iran /Iraq wars, all the wars with Israel,  to name a few... 

 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_war

I did not say that, what I did say was religion is responsible for more wars and death than anything else Man has done....what does the word Jihad mean in your language.  

[Wayne Chapman]

This thread is pretty quiet, time to start a new one

[Queenmandy85]

On 4/3/2020 at 10:35 AM, Argus said:

Because most people don't like or trust Islam. They don't respect it's medieval beliefs, teachings and practices with regard to women and gays, and they are suspicious of a religion which spends much of it's time telling its worshipers how to treat non-believers (badly).

The same can be said about Roman Catholicism. Women are repressed, gays are persecuted, the beliefs are medieval. However, just because it can be said, doesn't make it true.  

Edited April 12, 2020 by Queenmandy85

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The same can be said about Roman Catholicism. Women are repressed, gays are persecuted, the beliefs are medieval. However, just because it can be said, doesn't make it true.  

Not nearly as much though, and not nearly as true.