The Coronavirus

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, pinky tuscadero said:

When will we admit those that have said this is akin to a regular to bad flu-season were right all along.

From the beginning numbers to today, the data (as massaged as it was, never, ever fulfilled their ridiculous models or hyperbole.

We sacrificed our freedoms, destroyed lives and livelihoods for a flu, something that occurs every single year with little fanfare.

Yet we still listen to the very people that have been wrong from the beginning,

and the people that have been right from the beginning are still relegated to the hinterlands and called names to discredit their ability to rightly divide this matter.

This is utter madness.

 

Here is today's study corroborating the study done by Stanford from two days ago.

 

The Stanford study, quoted below, can be found here.

 

Except that right now Covid-19 is probably the leading cause of deaths in the US.

https://www.wvgazettemail.com/coronavirus/covid-19-is-rapidly-becoming-americas-leading-cause-of-death/article_67442fa0-df07-5cde-a8bf-6475ae3b8b9e.html

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, pinky tuscadero said:

When will we admit those that have said this is akin to a regular to bad flu-season were right all along.

From the beginning numbers to today, the data (as massaged as it was, never, ever fulfilled their ridiculous models or hyperbole.

We sacrificed our freedoms, destroyed lives and livelihoods for a flu, something that occurs every single year with little fanfare.

Yet we still listen to the very people that have been wrong from the beginning,

and the people that have been right from the beginning are still relegated to the hinterlands and called names to discredit their ability to rightly divide this matter.

This is utter madness.

 

 

 

Your post is utter madness.  The death rate could be thirty three percent, but if only three people get it only one person dies.

[pinky tuscadero]

54 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Except that right now Covid-19 is probably the leading cause of deaths in the US.

https://www.wvgazettemail.com/coronavirus/covid-19-is-rapidly-becoming-americas-leading-cause-of-death/article_67442fa0-df07-5cde-a8bf-6475ae3b8b9e.html

You don't honestly believe that do you?

That is preposterous.

Do you understand that anyone who dies and may, or may not have, corona is counted as a corona death in the USA?

Here is CDC's directive to doctors to just make-up the corona deaths to make the small numbers appear larger:

Quote

COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death.

 

The models have been wrong, the chosen 'experts' have been wrong, people are dying and many others are losing their livelihoods for this lie.

What will it take for someone like you to actually read the data and listen to those that have been right from the very outset?

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by pinky tuscadero

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, pinky tuscadero said:

You don't honestly believe that do you?

That is preposterous.

Do you understand that anyone who dies and may, or may not have, corona is counted as a corona death in the USA?

Here is CDC's directive to doctors to just make-up the corona deaths to make the small numbers appear larger:

 

The models have been wrong, the chosen 'experts' have been wrong, people are dying and many others are losing their livelihoods for this lie.

What will it take for someone like you to actually read the data and listen to those that have been right from the very outset?

 

It would take no longer seeing mass graves and rows of refrigerator truck trailers full of corpses. 

[pinky tuscadero]

56 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Your post is utter madness.  The death rate could be thirty three percent, but if only three people get it only one person dies.

Annual deaths from seasonal flu - 650 000 (5 000 000 severe illnesses)

Corona deaths - 170 455 (2 481 866 cases worldwide with most showing no or mild symptoms)

 

There are the numbers, but I am the mad one.

Can you at least show some semblance of intellectual honesty and admit you are not sure what is going on?

Or simply look at those numbers above and change your position to match the data and fight for humanity.

 

That should shock anyone into questioning why we are down a trail whose door is quickly closing behind us.

 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Except that right now Covid-19 is probably the leading cause of deaths in the US.

https://www.wvgazettemail.com/coronavirus/covid-19-is-rapidly-becoming-americas-leading-cause-of-death/article_67442fa0-df07-5cde-a8bf-6475ae3b8b9e.html

 

Fake news....

 

Quote

No, the coronavirus is not the leading cause of death in the US, CDC says

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/10/health/coronavirus-not-leading-cause-of-death-us-trnd/index.html

 

[Zeitgeist]

16 minutes ago, pinky tuscadero said:

That should shock anyone into questioning why we are down a trail whose door is quickly closing behind us.

 

 

What do you mean by that?  Do you think this is some kind of planned attack or cull?  Do you think this is a planned removal of freedoms?  Is this Rothschilds/Rockefeller Council on Foreign Relations conspiracy stuff?  Deep state fake news?

Edited April 21, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[pinky tuscadero]

27 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It would take no longer seeing mass graves and rows of refrigerator truck trailers full of corpses. 

You don't honestly believe that do you?

 

Quote

New York City has ruled out using Hart Island for “mass burials” after drone footage and imagery circulated of a large trench at the public cemetery. 

Mayor Bill de Blasio released a statement on Twitter about Hart Island stating the public cemetery would not be used as a “mass burial” site despite reports. 

“The pictures of our fellow New Yorkers being buried on Hart Island are devastating for all of us. I want to make sure everyone knows what they’re seeing and what is actually happening on Hart Island,” he wrote. Link

 

As to the 'rows' of refrigerator trucks, that may be a slight exaggeration, and a couple of trucks may not even be out of the ordinary during bad flu seasons.

 

Don't forget this is a city used to over 10 000 deaths a month, and so far this corona has 10 000  over 4 months (and this is their massaged/made-up numbers).

 

Did you also immediately believe the crying nurse who had no masks and feared for herself and her family?

Did you socially share/like this video and did you socially recant when it was discovered she was a fraud?

 

Anyway nice thread sliding, the important info is now buried back a page and I am arguing with people who simply parrot the fear porn.

[Zeitgeist]

17 minutes ago, pinky tuscadero said:

You don't honestly believe that do you?

 

 

As to the 'rows' of refrigerator trucks, that may be a slight exaggeration, and a couple of trucks may not even be out of the ordinary during bad flu seasons.

 

Don't forget this is a city used to over 10 000 deaths a month, and so far this corona has 10 000  over 4 months (and this is their massaged/made-up numbers).

 

Did you also immediately believe the crying nurse who had no masks and feared for herself and her family?

Did you socially share/like this video and did you socially recant when it was discovered she was a fraud?

 

Anyway nice thread sliding, the important info is now buried back a page and I am arguing with people who simply parrot the fear porn.

1939 Americans died of C-19 yesterday.  An average of less than 1800 people died per day of cancer last year, the leading cause of US deaths in 2019.  Do with that information what you want.  

Edited April 21, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, pinky tuscadero said:

Here is today's study corroborating the study done by Stanford from two days ago, that means it is established not fanciful computer models (ie. truth, actual science).

 

The Stanford study, quoted below, can be found here.

Stanford? Where does it say Stanford?

And what's this mean?

Quote

This article is a preprint and has not been certified by peer review [what does this mean?]. It reports new medical research that has yet to be evaluated and so should not be used to guide clinical practice.

 

Hmmmm.

Caution: Preprints are preliminary reports of work that have not been certified by peer review. They should not be relied on to guide clinical practice or health-related behavior and should not be reported in news media as established information.

 

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Fake news....

 

 

I don’t like sensationalism, but we do need to be honest about what the hell is going on.  Accusations of “fake news” have damaged trust in the important work of journalists and researchers.  Anyway, I don’t think many politicians are equal to the tasks ahead.  It’s very true that many of the best leaders right now are those with science backgrounds like Merkel and the leader of Taiwan.  The populists are generally blowhards.

[Iceni warrior]

On 4/18/2020 at 6:25 PM, -TSS- said:

I'm very much in two minds about this. On one hand, are we really this fortunate. On the other hand, are we just behind others and in for the worst later on.

In Sweden they have chosen another way of dealing with the situation and they are keeping everything open. We in Finland are thinking the Swedes are absolutely crazy. They have had 1200 deaths while we in Finland up to date less than 100.

However, the Swedes tend to fare better than us and it could be that by mid-June the epidemic is over for Sweden while it is just starting here in Finland. The total number of deaths would be lower in Sweden than in Finland.

I really hope I am wrong on that prediction. 

For accuracy, Sweden has not kept everything open. Schools and colleges have been shut down and gatherings of over 50 people have been banned. They have been less strict than most other countries but they are still recommending social distancing. The bars are open but they are imposing a strict 2m rule.

Incidentally, bars are seeing a 75% reduction in customers and are running at a loss despite staying open.

Government policy or not people are still staying at home. Sweden is not the study in completely ignoring Covid 19 that some are making it out to be.

 

 

[Boges]

12 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

For accuracy, Sweden has not kept everything open. Schools and colleges have been shut down and gatherings of over 50 people have been banned. They have been less strict than most other countries but they are still recommending social distancing. The bars are open but they are imposing a strict 2m rule.

Incidentally, bars are seeing a 75% reduction in customers and are running at a loss despite staying open.

Government policy or not people are still staying at home. Sweden is not the study in completely ignoring Covid 19 that some are making it out to be.

Which is why beating the drum on opening the economy is rather misplaced. 

It's going to take a decent treatment or robust testing for people to really feel comfortable doing those thing. 

But note, Sweden's death figures are still higher even though they do have some reasonable distancing measures. 

A state like Georgia is looking to follow suit. 

[Guest]

8 hours ago, pinky tuscadero said:

Annual deaths from seasonal flu - 650 000 (5 000 000 severe illnesses)

Corona deaths - 170 455 (2 481 866 cases worldwide with most showing no or mild symptoms)

 

There are the numbers, but I am the mad one.

Can you at least show some semblance of intellectual honesty and admit you are not sure what is going on?

Or simply look at those numbers above and change your position to match the data and fight for humanity.

 

That should shock anyone into questioning why we are down a trail whose door is quickly closing behind us.

 

 

I don't think anyone is sure what is going on.  Except what we see on the news everyday.  Which is why I said you were mad.

Why do you think we treated this virus so differently? 

[Iceni warrior]

6 minutes ago, Boges said:

Which is why beating the drum on opening the economy is rather misplaced. 

It's going to take a decent treatment or robust testing for people to really feel comfortable doing those thing. 

But note, Sweden's death figures are still higher even though they do have some reasonable distancing measures. 

A state like Georgia is looking to follow suit. 

I got in some trouble on here for suggesting that there is no such thing as degrees of shutdown. You either do it properly or you don't. Sweden appears to be the ulimate proof of this.

The counties which enforced the strictest lockdown measures such as New Zealand are the ones able to open up first. They have also performed best in terms of lives lost.

Geographical isolation also plays a part in this. Greece has done well by European standards but it is a nation made up of thousands of easily isolated islands.

[Boges]

4 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

Geographical isolation also plays a part in this. Greece has done well by European standards but it is a nation made up of thousands of easily isolated islands.

I would attribute this, without any evidence mind you, to some of South Korea's success. Their only land border is a front line in a dormant conflict. So they're technically an island not bigger than a mid-western US state. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Boges

[Iceni warrior]

24 minutes ago, Boges said:

I would attribute this, without any evidence mind you, to some of South Korea's success. Their only land border is a front line in a dormant conflict. So they're technically an island not bigger than a mid-western US state. 

That is part of it but their early action, better testing and draconian surviellance systems allowing for better tracking probably play a bigger part.

Those pointing to SK as an example we should have all followed conveniently ignore the fact that most countries, including my own, were nowhere near as well prepared for this pandemic as South Korea. We simply didn't have the testing capacity or the stockpiles of PPE necessary to enable us to resist locking down for a long period of time like they could. We have a less compliant society and fewer systems able to record each citizen's movements and therefore track and control the spread of the virus.

Edited April 21, 2020 by Iceni warrior

[Shady]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

Why do you think we treated this virus so differently? 

Because too little is still known about it.

[Shady]

9 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I don’t like sensationalism, but we do need to be honest about what the hell is going on.  Accusations of “fake news” have damaged trust in the important work of journalists and researchers.  Anyway, I don’t think many politicians are equal to the tasks ahead.  It’s very true that many of the best leaders right now are those with science backgrounds like Merkel and the leader of Taiwan.  The populists are generally blowhards.

I doubt the background of Merkel has anything to do with it.  

[Zeitgeist]

11 minutes ago, Shady said:

I doubt the background of Merkel has anything to do with it.  

She’s more competent than most of our political leaders, including Trump and Trudeau.  

[Rue]

11 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

It would take no longer seeing mass graves and rows of refrigerator truck trailers full of corpses. 

No. You prevent a vision you choose to see out of actual context and probably a subjective fabrication brought on by anxiety.

People were dying in large amounts before covid 19 virus and will be ling after it moves on.

You experience the psychological distortion phenomena known from proximity. Things in your immediate vision including events, issues, actions,  seem much larger the closer they get to you and vice versa smaller or not existent the further they get from you.

This distortion is further fueled or amplified by, frequency of the same story or vision presented, its amount of negative content or anxiety producing cues, tone, length, amount of subjective opinion or incomplete or inaccurate assumptions and conclusions.

In this sense if you rely on media to define your reality through the perceptions it presents, you run the risk of doing what you do create disjointed fragmented subjective visions of death.

This is further amplified because you are locked in and do not have access to a reality not controlled and dictated to you.

You have been placed in an isolation chamber and are suffering the same effects anyone would in your case. Anyone locked up in isolation goes through a form of warped perception. Its inevitable if you allow ths media to control you and you suspend critical and logical analysis.

Did you see a truck full of dead bodies or were they slabs of meat being sent to market.

Did you see human bodies and if so how did you determine they all died of covid 19. 

The internet and media is full of false and inaccurate reports and they distort what we see raising anxiety, fear, morbid obsession with washing hands and catching germs.

They attract anti-ocial personality disordered persons and government malware-spyware to then feed off this like shit to flies.

Challenge your fear, anxiety, challenge ge the info and visions you see.  Challenge the data, the reports, the methodology used to report. Empower yourself to engage in critical analysis.

Let me put it to you this way. If UFOs suddenly showed up providing a vaccine would you line up to take it because the media says they are benevolent?

Some will, some won't ever, some will go hide. Then the question is if the military locksvyscdown and orders you to report to an inoculation shelter will you? 

Some of us come fro  histories or here and now worlds of wide spread life threatening realities. 

Such people do not react the way you do to feed bodies or pandemics. Does not make them immoral either..but their reaction is less fearful and chaotic..working in a room with bodies in bags means after awhile th ed bags grow smaller then when you first see them.

This situation requires we get a proper hold of our perspective on death, disease, what we priorize as large as opposed to small.

We have a situation challenging us to change the prescriptio  of our glasses. That choice behind and ends with individuals.

[Shady]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

She’s more competent than most of our political leaders, including Trump and Trudeau.  

She still takes advice from medical experts.  Just like every other leader.

[Zeitgeist]

9 minutes ago, Shady said:

She still takes advice from medical experts.  Just like every other leader.

Yes, but there’s an undeniable difference in technical expertise.  Trump and Trudeau are populists, good at rousing emotions.  I think we’re going to see a rise of the technocrats.  In a data-driven knowledge economy, you want experts running the show.  There may be left and right perspectives, but once politicians set their goals and win a mandate, the issue is effective policy to achieve those goals.  Politicians who distract from public priorities or appear ineffective won’t do well.  

Edited April 21, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Argus]

12 hours ago, pinky tuscadero said:

When will we admit those that have said this is akin to a regular to bad flu-season were right all along.

When we're all on the same drugs as those people were.

Have you ever seen a bad flu season with bodies piled up outside mortuaries because there's nowhere inside to store them? Where hospitals have to park multiple refrigerator trucks outside to store the bodies? And this is WITH the lockdown. Do you people really lack the imagination to understand what that situation would have been like WITHOUT the lockdown?

[Shady]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes, but there’s an undeniable difference in technical expertise.  Trump and Trudeau are populists, good at rousing emotions.  I think we’re going to see a rise of the technocrats.  In a data-driven knowledge economy, you want experts running the show.  There may be left and right perspectives, but once politicians set their goals and win a mandate, the issue is effective policy to achieve those goals.  Politicians who distract from public priorities or appear ineffective won’t do well.  

I guess, but I think you're putting a little too much weight on Merkel's so-called expertise.  She studied physics like 40 years ago.  In general, medical professionals in every country are making the policy decisions, or at least they were during the first phase of the outbreak.