The Coronavirus

[Guest]

The Chinese have sorted it all out.  Bear bile is the answer.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/coronavirus-sun-bears-china-medicine-wildlife-trade-malaysia-poachers-a9462476.html

All this screwing around looking for a vaccine and we could have just been in the Rockies rounding up the Grizzlies!

 

[Zeitgeist]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

You can't.

Yes, we have. But it's different now. It's been shown how easily it can be done, and how enormous the impact is. And just like one suicide or terrorist act gives the idea to others to do the same, I wonder at whether we'll start seeing that. Or even if we'll know if we do. I mean, if we get a sudden spike of cases somewhere whose to know if that was from a deliberate effort or not on the part of some asymptomatic 'super spreader'?

 

Right, so surveillance increases and we accept the risk of getting the virus as yet another occupational hazard.  Those with the means who decide not to work can stay home.  Those without the means may be able to use “anxiety” as a medical reason not to work and to collect government support.  The vulnerable without economic means will have to rely on handouts, which is why some form of Universal Basic Income is probably here to stay.  It probably does conveniently solve the problem of automation replacing jobs.  A number of people would happily accept the risk in order to work, guys like me.  

Edited April 13, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[BubberMiley]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

What's with this crap about keeping the lights on? Every time I come in to work, every single light is on in the building.

Keeps people who don't wash their hands from infecting the light switches and transmitting the virus to others. Are you washing your hands?

[Guest]

The Chinese might have it sorted with their endangered animal extinction policies, but in the meantime the US can help...

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/13/death-penalty-states-coronavirus-stockpiled-drugs

[eyeball]

46 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Right, so surveillance increases and we accept the risk of getting the virus as yet another occupational hazard.  Those with the means who decide not to work can stay home.  Those without the means may be able to use “anxiety” as a medical reason not to work and to collect government support.  The vulnerable without economic means will have to rely on handouts, which is why some form of Universal Basic Income is probably here to stay.  It probably does conveniently solve the problem of automation replacing jobs.  A number of people would happily accept the risk in order to work, guys like me.  

I can think of another pool of potential super-spreaders - resentful assholes who get fed up with providing handouts.

[Rue]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

They keep saying another extension. First it was bi-weekly, now monthly. We know this isn't over in a month. I thought the PM alluded to more like a year. Well, I think he said not until there's a vaccine. So in other words, the virus cannot be managed.

No it just means Trudeau insists on jumping to conclusions without having all the facts and how contagious that defficient thought process to anyone who listens. STOP listening to him. He talks out of his ass.

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, eyeball said:

I can think of another pool of potential super-spreaders - resentful assholes who get fed up with providing handouts.

Why do you use inflammatory language?  You’re too partisan to have credibility when you say things like that.  On the other hand, you won’t use accurate language when you don’t like the way the truth makes you feel.  Handouts are free benefits or money for nothing.  You can change the name, but a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.  So who are these “resentful assholes” and what makes them “super spreaders”?

[Zeitgeist]

4 minutes ago, Rue said:

No it just means Trudeau insists on jumping to conclusions without having all the facts and how contagious that defficient thought process to anyone who listens. STOP listening to him. He talks out of his ass.

I agree.  Trudeau isn’t looking at the whole economic picture and weighing deaths from the virus against deaths from prolonged economic shutdown.  He’s making weak-kneed assumptions.  

[Boges]

When/if this is over. I hope studies are done to see how many deaths will have been caused due social isolation and the economic hardships all this has foisted on the population. And how they compare to actual COVID-19 deaths.  

Edited April 13, 2020 by Boges

[eyeball]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

Why do you use inflammatory language?  You’re too partisan to have credibility when you say things like that.

Actually I'm not very partisan at all which seems to inflame some people even worse.

Quote

On the other hand, you won’t use accurate language when you don’t like the way the truth makes you feel.  Handouts are free benefits or money for nothing.  You can change the name, but a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

By the same token you can sugarcoat the truth that the thought of handouts, free benefits and money for nothing enrages millions of people like almost nothing else. There's nothing quite like a whiff of condescension.  You could call it compensation and even go after the people responsible for the plight of people this virus endangers. It wasn't their fault.

 

Quote

So who are these “resentful assholes”

 Hard-boiled right wing conservatives for the most part.

Quote

and what makes them “super spreaders”?

Extremism, as pointed out up above. Fed-upedness to an extreme. Happens all the time with guns, explosives and knives.   

 

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, BubberMiley said:

Keeps people who don't wash their hands from infecting the light switches and transmitting the virus to others. Are you washing your hands?

I never did before, why should I start too now.

[SpankyMcFarland]

5 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It might solve one problem but does it create another? I'm not with being tested on a fortnightly basis. For how long? That could go on for years.

If a person hasn’t been infected by the virus, there is a constant risk they could be infected and pass it on. Romer’s proposal is at one end of the spectrum. Less comprehensive models may be more realistic. Certainly, anybody who lives or works in a nursing home should be tested regularly. Let’s hope we see boxes like this all over the place soon:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/spartan-covid19-test-kit-new-1.5530669

 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by SpankyMcFarland

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, Rue said:

He talks out of his ass.

Duly noted.

[OftenWrong]

22 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

If a person hasn’t been infected by the virus, then there is a constant risk they could be infected and pass it on. Romer’s proposal is at one end of the spectrum. Certainly, anybody who lives or works in a nursing home should be tested regularly. Let’s hope we see boxes like this all over the place soon:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/spartan-covid19-test-kit-new-1.5530669

Alternatively, we see the appearance of Covid-19 "Certificates" idea being floated by folks in Italy. The principle is that those who were infected and didn't die now have immunity and can go outside without fear. They will have to present the certificate to prove they are "clean". They are then abel to work in nursing homes, and now concentrate on the other hundreds of viral and bacterial threats in the world. 

Note that for such class of viruses, or virii as it were, there is no permanent immunity. Same things goes with -dare I say it - the goddam flu. Hence needs a vaccine year on year. Even if strain is same as last year. Someone mentioned that a vaccine might not even be possible... except for the human immune system, proven, no need for a pharmaceutical noxious potion.

If true there may be lineups in the future to get the virus.

Edited April 13, 2020 by OftenWrong

[SpankyMcFarland]

33 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Alternatively, we see the appearance of Covid-19 "Certificates" idea being floated by folks in Italy. The principle is that those who were infected and didn't die now have immunity and can go outside without fear. They will have to present the certificate to prove they are "clean". They are then abel to work in nursing homes, and now concentrate on the other hundreds of viral and bacterial threats in the world. 

Note that for such class of viruses, or virii as it were, there is no permanent immunity. Same things goes with -dare I say it - the goddam flu. Hence needs a vaccine year on year. Even if strain is same as last year. Someone mentioned that a vaccine might not even be possible... except for the human immune system, proven, no need for a pharmaceutical noxious potion.

If true there may be lineups in the future to get the virus.

AFAIK serological testing is not widely available at the moment but would be very useful to have. If the prevalence of exposure is low, what should one advise for those who are negative? I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how long immunity lasts to C19. It doesn’t seem to have quite the same mutability as Influenza virus. Let’s also hope this report of persistent C19 material in recovered South Korean patients turns out to be a red herring. 
 

https://www.businessinsider.com/south-korea-coronavirus-reactivate-unlikely-dormancy-2020-4

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

There seems to be some evidence that C19 attacks T cells esp. in elderly or sick patients who need them most. 
 

Quote

In February, Chen Yongwen and his colleagues at the PLA’s Institute of Immunology released a clinical report warning that the number of T cells could drop significantly in Covid-19 patients, especially when they were elderly or required treatment in intensive care units. The lower the T cell count, the higher the risk of death.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3079443/coronavirus-could-target-immune-system-targeting-protective
https

Quote

Here’s another report of the same phenomenon:

Quote

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32161940

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by SpankyMcFarland

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

If the prevalence of exposure is low, what should one advise

Wait now, the prevalence... I'm a little confused by this point. Is it high or low?

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Wait now, the prevalence... I'm a little confused by this point. Is it high or low?

We don’t really know yet. Say, for example, that it’s fairly low and that 10% of Canadians have had the virus when the shut-down ends. What do we do then? The other 90% will still be at risk of infection if they go back to work etc. Should we allow younger people, say under 35, with no older family at home back to work first? 

[OftenWrong]

32 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

We don’t really know yet. Say, for example, that it’s fairly low and that 10% of Canadians have had the virus when the shut-down ends. What do we do then? The other 90% will still be at risk of infection if they go back to work etc. Should we allow younger people, say under 35, with no older family at home back to work first? 

I think we could allow them back to work for example if:
- They are willing to do so.
- They meet some criteria that can be explained using data and risk analysis.
- They wear some PPE as a precaution.

Maybe some rules could be developed so that people who are raising young families can go back to work.

What about my old Mom, I cannot visit her. She has been alone for weeks. That's not at all good for her! How can we allow seniors to be safe but still maintain social connections that they need? There is no quality of life for her right now. At that age quality sometimes is more important than quantity.

ETA- I accuse our government and health minister of not doing enough to care for seniors, not showing they understand people's needs.

Edited April 13, 2020 by OftenWrong

[eyeball]

24 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I accuse our government and health minister of not doing enough to care for seniors, not showing they understand people's needs.

I accuse decades of politicizing health care. Everyone partook in that probably even a lot of the seniors.

Remember that straw and camel's back I mentioned a while back?

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

I accuse decades of politicizing health care. Everyone partook in that probably even a lot of the seniors.

Remember that straw and camel's back I mentioned a while back?

Yes I do remember you sometimes referencing that, in your lengthy and twisted screeds. But this problem I point to requires no facility. These people do not need to be institutionalized. Only a Pol Pot would even suggest such a thing. These are our old folks. They are at home, a lot of them all alone and afraid of what's going on.

Someone I know tells me that their mom went into a Walmart parking lot with her car. When she tried to pull into a spot, the other driver opened their door real fast so she couldn't get in. She waited but they didn't get out, and didn't close their door.

So she gets out and says, "Can you close the door so I can park please?" and the other driver gets out, starts yelling and telling her to get lost, respect social distancing. Then the person kicked her car. So she got the hell out of there.

Just the beginning. By now, millions of anxious dipsticks woke up to their 3rd or 4th week off work. Many of them have never been away from work this long before in their lives, but some have. Going forward, well, how shall I put it. "We are entering uncharted territory."

Edited April 14, 2020 by OftenWrong

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Yes I do remember you sometimes referencing that, in your lengthy and twisted screeds. But this problem I point to requires no facility. These people do not need to be institutionalized. Only a Pol Pot would even suggest such a thing. These are our old folks. They are at home, a lot of them all alone and afraid of what's going on.

Pol Pot wouldn't need a facility just a killing field.

Quote

 

Someone I know tells me that their mom went into a Walmart parking lot with her car. When she tried to pull into a spot, the other driver opened their door real fast so she couldn't get in. She waited but they didn't get out, and didn't close their door.

So she gets out and says, "Can you close the door so I can park please?" and the other driver gets out, starts yelling and telling her to get lost, respect social distancing. Then the person kicked her car. So she got the hell out of there.

 

Probably a resentful prole fed up with handouts to needy dipsticks.  

Quote

Just the beginning. By now, millions of anxious dipsticks woke up to their 3rd or 4th week off work. Many of them have never been away from work this long before in their lives, but some have. Going forward, well, how shall I put it. "We are entering uncharted territory."

Dragging the usual suspects kicking and screaming every inch of the way. The more things change the more they stay the same.

Hmmm that's only a third the size of your screed. More direct and to the point.

[OftenWrong]

Food production is slowing down.

COVID-19 to have 'immediate and drastic' impact on Canadian meat supply

Quote

Beef processing capabilities have been reduced at a number of facilities in Canada and the U.S., including a temporary reduction at a Cargill meat plant in High River, Alta., where dozens of employees have tested positive for COVID-19.

“This single facility represents just over one-third of Canada’s total processing capability, so the impacts to the Canadian beef industry are expected to be immediate and drastic,” Michelle McMullen, communications manager at the Canadian Cattlemen’s Association (CCA), told CTVNews.ca by email Monday.

And in the US, a major pork producer suddenly shut down without warning.

Smithfield closes plant that produces 5% of U.S. pork indefinitely, warns of meat shortages during pandemic

‘It is impossible to keep our grocery stores stocked if our plants are not running’

This is why I've been telling you, our so-called leaders are beyond incompetent in putting our whole society at great risk with their fearful and useless half-measures. They are the greater risk than the coronavirus.

[Boges]

3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Food production is slowing down.

COVID-19 to have 'immediate and drastic' impact on Canadian meat supply

And in the US, a major pork producer suddenly shut down without warning.

Smithfield closes plant that produces 5% of U.S. pork indefinitely, warns of meat shortages during pandemic

‘It is impossible to keep our grocery stores stocked if our plants are not running’

This is why I've been telling you, our so-called leaders are beyond incompetent in putting our whole society at great risk with their fearful and useless half-measures. They are the greater risk than the coronavirus.

This would speak to the dangers of consolidating food production like we have been. 

Shouldn't their competitors be chomping at the bit to fill the void? 

BTW, these cites don't speak to the other aspects of the food industry. People adapt. 

[bush_cheney2004]

There have been major disruptions before in Canada as recently as December when the Canadian Food Inspection Agency revoked Ryding-Regency's  licence in Ontario.

Canada was already hurting for capacity for several reasons, and U.S. slaughterhouses cannot accept all the excess....even less so now.

Transportation costs to western Canada or the U.S. cuts deep into profit margins too.