Zeitgeist Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 17 minutes ago, ProudConservative said: I've studied 9/11 hard.... Building seven... collapsing at freefall speed. Depleted Uranium in the middle east. The Gulf of Token is declassified now. The United States is run by secrete societies. It's a fraction of the 1%, that pulls the strings... It only takes a dozen or so people to bring down an airliner. Also Trump is acting kinda strange lately... Not sure if he's been blackmailed. I do think Trump is compromised and bad for America and the world overall. He has demonstrated some courage on China, but there’s something extortionist in his approach to world affairs. You seem to believe some of the conspiracy theories on 9/11. Some of them are compelling, such as the fact that the only plane permitted to leave US air space was Bin Laden’s brother that day. But no, I don’t think the US government was behind it. I do think there’s tremendous blindness to the ways in which US manipulation of world affairs often has a result that’s more trouble than the manipulation is worth, but there will always be those who point to the US’s winning of the Cold War to justify propping up all those dictators and doing all that illicit drug and arms trading. I realize that geopolitics is s messy business that involves realpolitik and calculating, but once certain lines are crossed the mission must be abandoned. I think the Cold War could have been won more easily and less expensively. Media, culture, economic prosperity, and freedom are the real carrots. Win hearts and minds. Show people a better future and they’ll choose it. The extremists are the lost souls who see no hope and not all of them can be saved, though it’s worth a try. Without a noble and compelling vision of the future for ALL, there is no lasting power. Hard power also has its place, but when its use is corrupt or overblown, there’s almost always blowback. Only principled leadership and fair rules garner wide support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 Faces of those killed by Iran regime missile attack on civilian aircraft. Not surprisingly it was a pair of Russian missiles. https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/01/08/ontario-university-students-alberta-family-among-iran-plane-crash-victims.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: I think the Cold War could have been won more easily and less expensively. Media, culture, economic prosperity, and freedom are the real carrots. Win hearts and minds. Show people a better future and they’ll choose it. The extremists are the lost souls who see no hope and not all of them can be saved, though it’s worth a try. Millions already have chosen...the United States...more than any other nation in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Millions already have chosen...the United States...more than any other nation in the world. Yeah not so shiny and wonderful anymore. The US is resting on old laurels because it’s losing moral authority. I realize this is somewhat cyclical and the US still has so much going for it, but I don’t think the US is the exemplar for success these days, or not as it once was or could be. The US is making the mistake that the Mings made in China, cutting itself off from in the name of security. The US is bigger than these shortcomings, but I do wonder if it’s a waning power, over-reliant on fiscal stimulus through debt accumulation. Only through continued pricing of commodities in US dollars, continued innovation, and continued free exchange of goods, services, ideas, and people, can the greatness be maintained—oh, and less over reliance on debt and its parasitic twin military supremacy. Not sure how sustainable it is, at least along the current political trajectory, especially if environmental policy continues to be compromised. Just my opinion, but there are many headwinds. The country can do better. Edited January 10, 2020 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: I do think Trump is compromised and bad for America and the world overall. He has demonstrated some courage on China, but there’s something extortionist in his approach to world affairs. You seem to believe some of the conspiracy theories on 9/11. Some of them are compelling, such as the fact that the only plane permitted to leave US air space was Bin Laden’s brother that day. But no, I don’t think the US government was behind it. I do think there’s tremendous blindness to the ways in which US manipulation of world affairs often has a result that’s more trouble than the manipulation is worth, but there will always be those who point to the US’s winning of the Cold War to justify propping up all those dictators and doing all that illicit drug and arms trading. I realize that geopolitics is s messy business that involves realpolitik and calculating, but once certain lines are crossed the mission must be abandoned. I think the Cold War could have been won more easily and less expensively. Media, culture, economic prosperity, and freedom are the real carrots. Win hearts and minds. Show people a better future and they’ll choose it. The extremists are the lost souls who see no hope and not all of them can be saved, though it’s worth a try. Without a noble and compelling vision of the future for ALL, there is no lasting power. Hard power also has its place, but when its use is corrupt or overblown, there’s almost always blowback. Only principled leadership and fair rules garner wide support. I think Trump has schizophrenia or multi personality disorder.... He's charming one minute, and that talks like a complete lunatic the next.... What's scary is how many conservative sheep, put him on a pedestal just to get back at liberals who want the government to pay for everything. It's like they want to believe in him so bad, because having no politician to believe in... Make's you feel vulnerable... Politics like like spectator sports... We prop up false idols. The worst kind of welfare in the United States, is the corporate welfare, and military industrial complex that's bankrupting the United States. Trump couldn't exist, if it weren't for 60 Million fools that support him. So I do blame America for propping up a guy who's unhinged... If you're conservative vote for a third party Candidate. there is usually someone on the ballet that's decent. Anyways the worst politician was George Bush... Obama was bad, but at least he didn't make a mockery out of the United States. Even if we don't go to war, I can't forgive Trump for the actions he's done this week. When he bragged about how he was going to bomb Iranian "Cultural Sites". That was the straw that broke the camels back, So I've told off everyone that refuses to acknowledge his corruption. Trump is all or nothing with his ego... He forgets he's there to serve, and not act like a celebrity. Edited January 10, 2020 by ProudConservative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Yeah not so shiny and wonderful anymore. The US is resting on old laurels because it’s losing moral authority. I realize this is somewhat cyclical and the US still has so much going for it, but I don’t think the US is the exemplar for success these days, or not as it once was or could be. The US is making the mistake that the Mings made in China, cutting itself off from in the name of security. The US is bigger than these shortcomings, but I do wonder if it’s a waning power, over-reliant on fiscal stimulus through debt accumulation. The history of American foreign and domestic policies is long peppered with less than "moral authority", but they still came by the millions. As far as being a waning power, don't confuse that with the ascendance of other powers in the world. Quote Only through continued pricing of commodities in US dollars, continued innovation, and continued free exchange of goods, services, ideas, and people, can the greatness be maintained—oh, and less over reliance on debt and its parasitic twin military supremacy. Not sure how sustainable it is, at least along the current political trajectory, especially if environmental policy continues to be compromised. Just my opinion, but there are many headwinds. The country can do better. All countries could do better...it is not just an American imperative. Failing that, the U.S. can always "decline" to a larger version of what Canada and many other nations already are on the world stage....followers...not leaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: The history of American foreign and domestic policies is long peppered with less than "moral authority", but they still came by the millions. As far as being a waning power, don't confuse that with the ascendance of other powers in the world. All countries could do better...it is not just an American imperative. Failing that, the U.S. can always "decline" to a larger version of what Canada and many other nations already are on the world stage....followers...not leaders. How many countries do you know have Invaded other countries in the 21st century? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) Letting the Democrats take over the SCOTUS is not something any conservative with a brain would do. Pretending Trump is so bad it's worth conceding the SCOTUS is obvious TDS. Edited January 10, 2020 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) I also think Iran is going to soft on the United States. I would of done a lot more. I hope they get some balls and kick all the US troops out of Iraq, with no compensation. Trump held a massive Rally today, where he bragged about how... he didn't need congressional approval for the assignation. Personally I would like to see him charged for Treason, but the democrats are just controlled opposition, and the impeachment is a sham. It's time to vote independent or third party. Edited January 10, 2020 by ProudConservative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: The history of American foreign and domestic policies is long peppered with less than "moral authority", but they still came by the millions. As far as being a waning power, don't confuse that with the ascendance of other powers in the world. All countries could do better...it is not just an American imperative. Failing that, the U.S. can always "decline" to a larger version of what Canada and many other nations already are on the world stage....followers...not leaders. Canada has a smaller population than California. It doesn’t pretend to be a superpower and trying to emulate one doesn’t serve it well. Canada is an exemplar on some fronts, but the military is a shadow of its former self and the oil sands are a hard reality to assimilate to the values the country expounds. Its population is growing rapidly though, some would say too fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, ProudConservative said: How many countries do you know have Invaded other countries in the 21st century? Quite a few...including Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Canada has a smaller population than California. It doesn’t pretend to be a superpower and trying to emulate one doesn’t serve it well. Canada is an exemplar on some fronts, but the military is a shadow of its former self and the oil sands are a hard reality to assimilate to the values the country expounds. Its population is growing rapidly though, some would say too fast. Exactly...so what would be so bad if the United States faded from global superpower status to the pedestrian influence of Canada ? Must the Americans always carry the burden that others refuse ? Still, they come by the millions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Quite a few...including Canada. Here's Chretien telling your hero, George Bush to F@ck Off. "Canada Will Not Participate". One of my happy days. Go read the comments from the Youtube page, and see how Canadians feel about your stupid war. Edited January 10, 2020 by ProudConservative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: Quite a few...including Canada. That’s true and we should be careful in our judgments. All countries err in foreign policy. Some gaffes are bigger than others. Some impacts are bigger than others. I don’t think Trump is s war monger.. it’s hard to sort out why this move was made on the general. We’re more or less speculating. Trump wasn’t directly responsible for the downing of the plane, but it wouldn’t have happened without the assassination. Neither Iran nor Russia can be trusted. It’s hard to have confidence in Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: That’s true and we should be careful in our judgments. All countries err in foreign policy. Some gaffes are bigger than others. Some impacts are bigger than others. I don’t think Trump is s war monger.. it’s hard to sort out why this move was made on the general. We’re more or less speculating. Trump wasn’t directly responsible for the downing of the plane, but it wouldn’t have happened without the assassination. Neither Iran nor Russia can be trusted. It’s hard to have confidence in Trump. But that is the essence of the argument...why do you insist on confidence in any American president ? Why is there such a reliance and dependence on American foreign or domestic policy ? Why does America matter so much in a world of 7 billion people ? China just learned how little influence it has after pretending to have made such strides in that part of the world. Trump is not responsible for the continued actions and reactions of Iran any more than previous U.S. presidents and their decisions. Killing terrorists with Hellfire missiles was not invented by the Trump administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 "Bush_Cheney2004" USA USA USA.... Give me a break! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, ProudConservative said: "Bush_Cheney2004" USA USA USA.... Give me a break! You're one to talk, with your pro-China nonsense. Give us a break. No property rights where the governments takes your land to build infrastructure boondoggles is the way of the future! Lulz. Edited January 10, 2020 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: That’s true and we should be careful in our judgments. All countries err in foreign policy. Some gaffes are bigger than others. Some impacts are bigger than others. I don’t think Trump is s war monger.. it’s hard to sort out why this move was made on the general. We’re more or less speculating. Trump wasn’t directly responsible for the downing of the plane, but it wouldn’t have happened without the assassination. Neither Iran nor Russia can be trusted. It’s hard to have confidence in Trump. If Iran really wanted to retaliate... They would do a 9/11, but it isn't the Persian style. Iran just wants to be left the F@ck alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: But that is the essence of the argument...why do you insist on confidence in any American president ? Why is there such a reliance and dependence on American foreign or domestic policy ? Why does America matter so much in a world of 7 billion people ? China just learned how little influence it has after pretending to have made such strides in that part of the world. Trump is not responsible for the continued actions and reactions of Iran any more than previous U.S. presidents and their decisions. Killing terrorists with Hellfire missiles was not invented by the Trump administration. No, but NATO troops are in Iraq, including 500 Canadian soldiers. The US is a central NATO member. The assassination has put all NATO soldiers stationed in Iraq at risk, including Americans. How much consultation took place with NATO forces? It seems a bit rogue and reckless. I hope I’m wrong. Edited January 10, 2020 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, ProudConservative said: Here's Chretien telling your hero, George Bush to F@ck Off. "Canada Will Not Participate". One of my happy days. OK...were you also happy when Canada bombed Serbia ? How about Canada's invasion & occupation of Afghanistan ? Or the coup in Haiti ? Or maybe the invasion/bombing of Libya ? And that's just in the past 20 years ! Happy days ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Yzermandius19 said: You're one to talk, with your pro-China nonsense. Give us a break. Well I see the Chinese busting their ass, and making something of themselves.... I see the Americans putting 2 million people in prison, and shooting opiods, meanwhile bragging about USA USA USA... No one likes has-beens. America is dead to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 Just now, Zeitgeist said: No, but NATO troops are in Iraq, including 500 Canadian soldiers. The US is a central NATO member. The assassination has put all NATO soldiers stationed in Iraq at risk. They were at risk before, now Iran is deterred and they are under less risk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, ProudConservative said: Well I see the Chinese busting their ass, and making something of themselves.... I see the Americans putting 2 million people in prison, and shooting opiods, meanwhile bragging about USA USA USA... No one likes has-beens. America is dead to me. China is a has been Commie Dictatorship that is a house of cards. America is the future, Infrastructure boondoggles are not and neither are Commie Dictatorships. America is so much better than China, to side with China is ridiculous. Edited January 10, 2020 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: No, but NATO troops are in Iraq, including 500 Canadian soldiers. The US is a central NATO member. The assassination has put all NATO soldiers stationed in Iraq at risk. Why is the U.S. a "central NATO member" ? Why are there only 500 Canadians deployed ? Why is there such a dependence on American policy compared to all of NATO and the West ? Why is the "world" in such a position where Donald Trump can command so much importance and relevance compared to all other nations ? Why ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: OK...were you also happy when Canada bombed Serbia ? How about Canada's invasion & occupation of Afghanistan ? Or the coup in Haiti ? Or maybe the invasion/bombing of Libya ? And that's just in the past 20 years ! Happy days ! Honestly i'm disappointed with North America right now... Such weak leadership. I'm jealous of Asia. They get things done. Edited January 10, 2020 by ProudConservative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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