Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: Yep, and you're a fraud. Parroting Obama talking points as facts when the entire strategy has proven to be a giant fail. Trump hasn't even lifted a finger to show some good will, and give Iran the benefit of the Doubt... IF trump went on CNN and said... I want Iran to visit Washington DC and have a peace summit... That would give him the moral high ground, to say "Well at least I tried"... Instead he blocks the VISA of the Iranian foreign minister to the UN. Everything he's done... is to be provocative, without any diplomatic strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 This was the point in time when I had the highest respect for Trump. This is when Trump gave us some hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, ProudConservative said: Everything he's done... is to be provocative, without any diplomatic strategy. That's why he was elected...doing a great job ! He was not elected to kiss Iran's ass. Edited January 10, 2020 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ProudConservative said: Trump hasn't even lifted a finger to show some good will, and give Iran the benefit of the Doubt... IF trump went on CNN and said... I want Iran to visit Washington DC and have a peace summit... That would give him the moral high ground, to say "Well at least I tried"... Instead he blocks the VISA of the Iranian foreign minister to the UN. Everything he's done... is to be provocative, without any diplomatic strategy. That's because appeasement was failing, so a new strategy is required. It's called deterrence, there is plenty of diplomatic strategy, but diplomacy alone cannot solve every issue, Obama just thinks it does and when it doesn't work, go to war. Trump has not started any new wars, Obama did. Obama is the warmonger, not Trump. Appeasement results in more war than deterrence, you might a have knee-jerk preference for appeasement for ideological reasons, but it does not produce the results you desire, just the opposite. Time to admit that appeasement is not good foreign policy, and stop doubling down on fail. Doubling down on fail would be far less encouraging than Trump's current actions. Leaving the rest of the world alone will not result in the rest of the world leaving you alone, the world does not run on the non-aggression principle, and foreign policy needs to be grounded in realism, not the naive idealism you are so fond of. Foreign policy needs to based on how the world is, not how you wish the world was. Edited January 10, 2020 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: That's why he was elected...doing a great job ! He was not elected to kiss Iran's ass. This is about Trumps character flaws. If he could get things done with North Korea, why couldn't he get things done with Iran?... Maybe he has a personal hatred towards Muslims.... who knows. Edited January 10, 2020 by ProudConservative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: That's because appeasement was failing, so a new strategy is required. It's called deterrence, there is plenty of diplomatic strategy, but diplomacy alone cannot solve every issue, Obama just thinks it does and when it doesn't work, go to war. Trump has not started any new wars, Obama did. Obama is the warmonger, not Trump. Appeasement results in more war than deterrence, you might a have knee-jerk preference for appeasement for ideological reasons, but it does not produce the results you desire, just the opposite. Time to admit that appeasement is not good foreign policy, and stop doubling down on fail. Doubling down on fail would be far less encouraging than Trump's current actions. Leaving the rest of the world alone will not result in the rest of the world leaving you alone, the world does not run on the non-aggression principle, and foreign policy needs to be grounded in realism, not naive idealism, as you suggest. All Trumps done... is kiss North Korea's ass so why you being such a hypocrite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, ProudConservative said: This is about Trumps character flaws. If he could get things done with North Korea, why couldn't he get things done with Iran?... Maybe he has a personal hatred towards Muslims.... who knows. He hasn't gotten anything done with NK, except photo ops and meaningless virtue signaling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 Just now, ProudConservative said: This is about Trumps character flaws. If he could get things done with North Korea, why couldn't he get things done with Iran?... Maybe he has a personal hatred towards Muslims.... who knows. Don't care...Iran is Iran is Iran. "Death to America ! " Trump is just another American president. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 You know what... I think there is a lot of racism here... People see too many women wearing Burka in our shopping malls now... and somehow thinking bombing Iran will cure the world of Islam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, ProudConservative said: All Trumps done... is kiss North Korea's ass so why you being such a hypocrite? I'm not. I think Trump is just kicking the can down the road with NK, and appeasement isn't going to work there either. Being nice to Kim Jong Un will not result in NK giving up it's nukes, if you were holding out hope that it would, you're engaging in wishful thinking. Blowing sunshine up the ass of such regimes might help during negotiations, but diplomacy is not going to solve the nuke problem anymore than negotiation is going to make Iran change it's ways. Being nice to the bad guys doesn't turn them into the good guys. You might wish that it did, but the world doesn't work that way. Edited January 10, 2020 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: Don't care...Iran is Iran is Iran. "Death to America ! " Trump is just another American president. You're talking about 1% who like to go to rally and chant that stuff. The average Iran just wants to live in Peace... You have no idea... since you never visited Iran... Just the propaganda you government fed you over the last 40 years. I personally know Iranian people... They are amazing. They are some of the best Muslims you'll ever find... The Egyptians too. One of my favorite DJ's is from Egypt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said: I'm not. I think Trump is just kicking the can down the road with NK, and appeasement isn't going to work there either. Being nice to Kim Jong Un will not result in NK giving up it's nukes, if you were holding out hope that it would, you're engaging in wishful thinking. Blowing sunshine up the ass of such regimes might help during negotiations, but diplomacy is not going to solve the nuke problem anymore than negotiation is going to make Iran change it's ways. I got new flash for you... If America think's they have the right to own nuclear weapons... So does North Korea, and Iran. They can give up their nukes, when you give up yours. If I was advising Iran, I would highly encourage them to develop nukes... as Quick as possible. After seeing the Invasion of countries on both sides of their border, it would be irresponsible not to. Edited January 10, 2020 by ProudConservative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ProudConservative said: I got new flash for you... If America think's they have the right to own nuclear weapons... So does North Korea, and Iran. They can give up their nukes, when you give up yours. Iran doesn't have any nukes to give up. If you want to appease a regime that has nukes, and doesn't care if it's citizens all die as long as they stay in power, and doing that would actually be doing them a favor and not deter in the slightest, that's not going to end well. NK is harder to deter, Iran is a lot easier to deter. Edited January 10, 2020 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, ProudConservative said: You're talking about 1% who like to go to rally and chant that stuff. The average Iran just wants to live in Peace... You have no idea... since you never visited Iran... Just the propaganda you government fed you over the last 40 years. I personally know Iranian people... They are amazing. They are some of the best Muslims you'll ever find... The Egyptians too. One of my favorite DJ's is from Egypt. Nonsense.....I know plenty about Iran...went to school with Iranian exchange officers. One was killed in the Iran-Iraq war on a patrol boat. There are more Iranians in the U.S. than in Canada...more Muslims too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 Just now, Yzermandius19 said: Iran doesn't have any nukes to give up. If you want to appease a regime that doesn't care if it's citizens all die as long as they stay in power, and doing that would actually be doing them a favor, that's not going to end well. Well they're foolish for being so far behind, but maybe that will change... After what they have witnessed this week. Iran has the right to nukes, at least for self defense... Maybe Russia could do us a favor... and lend them some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Nonsense.....I know plenty about Iran...went to school with Iranian exchange officers. One was killed in the Iran-Iraq war on a patrol boat. There are more Iranians in the U.S. than in Canada...more Muslims too. Not per capita. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 I also think Canada should get some Nukes... Who knows what desperate America might do in 50 years... It might be a good idea to take a little precaution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ProudConservative said: Well they're foolish for being so far behind, but maybe that will change... After what they have witnessed this week. Iran has the right to nukes, at least for self defense... Maybe Russia could do us a favor... and lend them some. Why would appeasement work with Iran when them backing down from nuclear aspirations would be foolish, and the entire basis of the appeasement is to make them do so? By your own logic and putting yourself in Iran's shoes, appeasing them will not result in America getting what it wants unless Iran acts foolishly. So unless you think the Iranian's are complete fools who can't realize this themselves, they have no incentive to abide by that deal you put so much faith in for no good reason. Edited January 10, 2020 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 President Trump is a hero for taking the shot....Iran is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: President Trump is a hero for taking the shot....Iran is not. Iran fired a warning shot.. Barely did any damage. If Iran wanted to they could have Trump assassinated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) ProudConservative needs to stop this half baked thinking that appeasing Iran or NK will work, when all the incentives for regime survival are that they don't give up the quest for nukes. Appeasement will not lead to new allies, simply stronger enemies that will be much more costly to confront down the road if you keep appeasing them. Edited January 10, 2020 by Yzermandius19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, ProudConservative said: Iran fired a warning shot.. Barely did any damage. If Iran wanted to they could have Trump assassinated. Iran killed Canadians...not Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 So what do you suggest... sending in 500 000 troops, and machine gunning down every Iranian that try's to stop the invasion? Trash talking the Iranians might get some conservative idiots to vote for him, but hasn't done anything to promote world peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ProudConservative Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Iran killed Canadians...not Trump. I don't even care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 Just now, bush_cheney2004 said: Iran killed Canadians...not Trump. To those with America Derangement Syndrome, everything is America's fault, somehow, someway. There are no other acceptable answers to them, everyone who opposes America gets a pass for everything, America is solely to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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