Is climate change, a major concern for Canadians ....

[Argus]

So what exactly does climate change mean for the earth? Well... nobody actually knows. But the best guess is it's really not that big a deal. Most of what the IPCC says is vague and focuses on what may happen hundreds of years from now. Hysterics describe every heat wave, forest fire and storm now as being inspired by climate change, but there's no evidence of that. Many people seem to believe climate change means the end of the world (literally) but no one sane predicts that, or the end of civilization, but again, no sane body predicts that, nor is there any evidence of it.

Things will get a little warmer, but worries about massive floods along the world's coastlines are wildly exaggerated, as are the fears or drought and storms.

Does a thinking person today have a chance of figuring out what to think about climate change? On the one hand, we are told there is a scientific consensus that humans are changing the climate. On the other hand, the most pessimistic future scenarios strain our credulity. The most extreme example may be the retired professor who believes that we will all be dead by 2026.

The activist group Extinction Rebellion is telling us that climate change represents “an unprecedented global emergency” and is calling for radical measures to deal with it. Such claims seem to be gaining ground and appearing with increasing frequency in the media. And according to a recent poll, nearly half of Americans believe climate change will result in the end of the world within the next 200 years.

https://quillette.com/2019/11/07/climate-change-assessing-the-worst-case-scenario/

 

[Guest]

22 minutes ago, Argus said:

So what exactly does climate change mean for the earth? Well... nobody actually knows.

The problem with climate change is that it feeds itself.  Notwithstanding human caused effects, the warmer we get, the more nature insists on contributing.  With fires, melting ice and permafrost, many of the results of climate change contribute to its acceleration.  I daresay that's one of the reasons why every effort made so far to reduce greenhouse gases actually hasn't.

I agree no-one knows.  I've always had almost as much disdain for the modellers as I have for those who insist it can be stopped, but I would argue that "things will get a little warmer" isn't going to cover it.  The main issue isn't going to be how warm we get, but rather, how everyone who lives where it is too warm is going to want to come and live with us.  I don't think we've seen anything yet.

A major technological breakthrough could change everything, of course, and I keep my fingers crossed.

[Army Guy]

16 hours ago, ReeferMadness said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/climate-change-could-end-mortgages-as-we-know-them/

Literally millions of people are sitting on economic disaster, not even bright enough to know about it.  People treat climate change like a one of those monsters  that show up in your sleep in crappy B movies.  If you don't believe in it, it can't hurt you.

Meanwhile, they vote for sociopaths like Kenney, Ford and Trump.  I've got new for all the losers out there.  When the shit hits, those right wing politicians who told you climate change isn't a problem won't be there to help you.

Come on Reefer, are you now going to tell us all,  that the Liberal, NDP , or green plan is going to fix climate change, or make a large enough difference to save the world....I don't see a whole lot of the world working together to solve this issue....lots of talking but no real action, unless you are talking about individuals making change, or taking action....So this is not about which party you voted for ...it's about showing leadership and taking action....and there is none of that here in Canada....

 

[ReeferMadness]

4 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Come on Reefer, are you now going to tell us all,  that the Liberal, NDP , or green plan is going to fix climate change, or make a large enough difference to save the world....I don't see a whole lot of the world working together to solve this issue....lots of talking but no real action, unless you are talking about individuals making change, or taking action....So this is not about which party you voted for ...it's about showing leadership and taking action....and there is none of that here in Canada....

The Greens are the only ones who would prioritize environmental issues.  The others are pretenders.

But blaming it on the parties is weak.  The reason that the parties have won't prioritize it is that too few people are demanding action.  Imagine World War II where everyone says "Yeah, someone should go fight those Nazis" but nobody is willing to give up anything until everyone else does first.  That's exactly the situation we're in today.

European countries are showing much more progress than we are.  And China and India are showing bolder leadership in technology development.

One day, we're going to wake up and find the world has passed us by while we're arguing over the toxic, carcinogenic sludge in Northern Alberta.

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, ReeferMadness said:

The Greens are the only ones who would prioritize environmental issues.  The others are pretenders.

But blaming it on the parties is weak.  The reason that the parties have won't prioritize it is that too few people are demanding action.  Imagine World War II where everyone says "Yeah, someone should go fight those Nazis" but nobody is willing to give up anything until everyone else does first.  That's exactly the situation we're in today.

European countries are showing much more progress than we are.  And China and India are showing bolder leadership in technology development.

One day, we're going to wake up and find the world has passed us by while we're arguing over the toxic, carcinogenic sludge in Northern Alberta.

 

Are you one of those who think it's all Alberta's fault?  If only we could shut down Fort Mac it would all be okay?

The Greens are a one trick pony with fantasy as their main policy driver.  Their leader said she was going to save humanity in five years.  And she still didn't get to form the government.  It's almost as if people didn't believe her.  (Except those Gulf Island hippies who don't seem to mind running the largest coal exporting terminal in North America)

European countries offload half their polluting industries to third world countries and then beam smugly about how they are fighting climate change.  In Germany, they want to cut down an ancient forest to mine coal.  Only a court challenge has postponed that.  But not for long, I'll warrant.  In France, attempts to tax carbon with any actual teeth cause rioting, tear gas and petrol bombs.

China is currently building coal fired power plants for anyone who wants one.  India is building their own.  They both have until 2030 to actually give a toss about climate change, and they will probably squeeze every last second out of that Paris accord granted largess.

But the oil sands!  Oh, the oil sands...

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by bcsapper

[Guest PPC2019]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

So what exactly does climate change mean for the earth? Well... nobody actually knows. But the best guess is it's really not that big a deal. Most of what the IPCC says is vague and focuses on what may happen hundreds of years from now. Hysterics describe every heat wave, forest fire and storm now as being inspired by climate change, but there's no evidence of that. Many people seem to believe climate change means the end of the world (literally) but no one sane predicts that, or the end of civilization, but again, no sane body predicts that, nor is there any evidence of it.

Things will get a little warmer, but worries about massive floods along the world's coastlines are wildly exaggerated, as are the fears or drought and storms.

Does a thinking person today have a chance of figuring out what to think about climate change? On the one hand, we are told there is a scientific consensus that humans are changing the climate. On the other hand, the most pessimistic future scenarios strain our credulity. The most extreme example may be the retired professor who believes that we will all be dead by 2026.

The activist group Extinction Rebellion is telling us that climate change represents “an unprecedented global emergency” and is calling for radical measures to deal with it. Such claims seem to be gaining ground and appearing with increasing frequency in the media. And according to a recent poll, nearly half of Americans believe climate change will result in the end of the world within the next 200 years.

https://quillette.com/2019/11/07/climate-change-assessing-the-worst-case-scenario/

 

It's all a scam. Call me a whistle blower. I went the secrete meetings in 2006, looking for work after I graduated university. All they could talk about is how to milk "climate change" as a buzzword because it does two things.... It makes people have fear, and it makes people have guilt.

I was actually a nerdy environmentalist wanting to talk about how we could use nanotechnology and demanufacturing to clean up our landfills. They laughed at me said... you might as well be living in star trek, right now the only thing people care about is climate change. So the far left has taken over the movement, and they're very anti-science, they are also incredibly lazy and don't believe in competition and productivity, only tax subsidies for their green scams.

The climate alarmist will tell your that if the methane melts, the sky will catch fire, and all life on earth will go extinct. The world has been spinning for 4.6 Billion years. Large lifeforms have existed for over 500 million years. They never died when the Asteroid hit earth 65 million years ago. We can find fossil's of Tropical plans in the arctic circle.

The planet has been almost completely covered and ice, and it's been without ice. Some species went extinct, but life carried on.

 

If Climate Change was about to kill all life on earth, believe me.... They would be doing more... They wouldn't be building condo's in Miami beach. The secrete societies know where to put their money, and as long as you see condo's built right next to the ocean, I wouldn't panic.

 

What I believe. I think the climate system is like an elastic band... We might be able to nudge it a bit, but the more we push it, the more it will auto-correct... That's just how weather works.

 

When you watch the movie 1984... You will understand that environmentalism, is the best vehicle to control the masses. It could be used as a fake enemy for tyrannical government. A lot of bad people could be pretending to be environmentalists, so we should proceed with a lot of caution.

Another thing... Environmentalism tends to make people crazy.

 

Anyways gradually reduce the population, and things should work themselves out in 100 years. We don't need places like Shanghai going to 50 million, or Toronto to 25 million?

Can't we be satisfied with 6.5 million, or do we need another 10 000 law firms to open up?

 

See liberals will call this racist, but they're betting on Electric cars and space age technology to save us... What if their Utopian plan fails? Then history will look back and ask why we didn't do more to stop population growth. That is Option B, and we aren't using it.

It's easier to get through to my red-pilled conservatives than the politically correct SJW's living in the dream world. Instead of attacking me, liberals should be happy there're conservative environmentalists, working on the other side.

Of course liberalism is a victim mentality philosophy of scapegoating, instead of solving problems.

Edited November 11, 2019 by PPC2019

[Guest PPC2019]

By the way... Put your money where your mouth is... If you have $1000 in the bank. Why don't you step up, and donate to a "Climate Charity". I bet ya won't do it, with your hard earned money. Until then, talk about some other environmental issues besides Global Boring!

[Cannucklehead]

1 hour ago, PPC2019 said:

By the way... Put your money where your mouth is... If you have $1000 in the bank. Why don't you step up, and donate to a "Climate Charity". I bet ya won't do it, with your hard earned money. Until then, talk about some other environmental issues besides Global Boring!

https://www.latimes.com/projects/marshall-islands-nuclear-testing-sea-level-rise/

 

It may be boring to you, but to some people it's a harsh reality that is not simply fixed with money.  

[Guest PPC2019]

5 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

https://www.latimes.com/projects/marshall-islands-nuclear-testing-sea-level-rise/

 

It may be boring to you, but to some people it's a harsh reality that is not simply fixed with money.  

It's a scam. If the globalist wanted to save the environment, they could help decrease family sizes all over the world, and there not doing it.

More people have been added to the planet in the last 13 years, than the entire population back in 1804.

I've pointed this out, and I got people calling me a Nazi.

All I see is hypocrisy.

Edited November 11, 2019 by PPC2019

[Cannucklehead]

4 minutes ago, PPC2019 said:

It's a scam. If the globalist wanted to save the environment, they could help decrease family sizes all over the world, and there not doing it.

More people have been added to the planet in the last 13 years, than the entire population back in 1804.

I've pointed this out, and I got people calling me a Nazi.

All I see is hypocrisy.

Read the article and get back to me.  

[Guest PPC2019]

2 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Read the article and get back to me.  

I take radioactive waste very seriously. I'm glad your talking about something other than global boring.

Edited November 11, 2019 by PPC2019

[Cannucklehead]

8 minutes ago, PPC2019 said:

I take radioactive waste very seriously. I'm glad your talking about something other than global boring.

Actually I'm talking about both.  

Protip: dont complain about a subject being "boring" if your posting in a thread about said subject.  

Edited November 11, 2019 by Cannucklehead

[Guest PPC2019]

14 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Actually I'm talking about both.  

That is the nuclear waste from air blasts. That's absolutely nothing compared to the contamination at Chernobyl or Fukushima.

I think Canada could step up and accept a small portion of those refugees. I think they have a legitimate case.

My worry is that if population growth goes unchecked, will panic and build hundreds or even thousands of new nuclear power plants to provide electricity for the world.

Then after peak oil, and the worlds economy collapses will have no money to maintain these reactors, and you will see several nuclear disasters every year.

Our policies to fight climate change are a failure, but we should get those people off the island... They are legitimate refugees, and i'm pretty sure I could convince my conservative allies to agree.

 

Even if climate change isn't real. If a tsunami strikes the island, or a major hurricane, you could have problems.

 

With a low enough population, the world wouldn't even need nuclear power plants. We could get all our energy from burning crops through biomass. Radioactive waste is going to be a huge consequence of overpopulation in 100 years.

Edited November 11, 2019 by PPC2019

[WestCanMan]

On 11/1/2019 at 6:00 PM, eyeball said:

It's not clear at all from this poll that Canadians don't give a crap about the climate but what has long been known already was reflected quite accurately in the poll.

 

Scheer didn't gain any traction on the climate front during the election because Canadians know that Conservatives at heart are a bunch of hard-boiled deniers and any sort of nod they do give to climate change is pure virtue-signalling.

 

Meanwhile the poll clearly shows that the more progressive a Canadian is the more willing they are to pay more.

I would suggest the poll is more reflective of a hesitancy to give any more money to the government just on general principles especially in today's dodgy economy. 

Canadians don't give a crap about climate hyperbole from climate hypocrites.

Respected, veteran meteorologists go on the record denying climate change and then the people who always lie to us (CNN, the Libs, the Dems) tell us that groups of people who would like to remain anonymous think that man-made global warming is destroying the planet.

Then wealthy people with several homes on clear-cut acreages who own gas-guzzling mega-yachts fly around in their private jets pontificating to all of us lowly peons about what we need to do about climate change.

Eyeball - aren't you the iconoclastic billionaire-hater and leftist who doubts the government every step of the way? Why are you bowing to the beck and call of the wealthy elite and the most corrupt governments in the western hemisphere?

"Canadians have to shut down their coal-fired plants and eliminate all oil production ASAP, other countries will continue with oil production as usual, and the biggest polluters in the world will continue to massively up-scale their use of coal and oil!!!!!!" 

Go fish.

As long as oil is being bought and sold on the world market we should be doing business just like everyone else, and we definitely shouldn't be importing oil from the middle east while we're shutting down our own oil production. 

People who think that Canada will be a major player in green energy solutions are just dreaming. Canada won't be producing and exporting green tech to the world any more than we're a big player in the auto, aviation, computer, or cellular phone manufacturing industries. We don't have the population base for it. Anything we invent, China will reverse engineer and sell on their own. It's what they do. You could thank Trump for being the guy that stood up to them but you won't, and when he's gone and the Dems are back in control China will be let loose. 

 

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Canadians don't give a crap about climate hyperbole from climate hypocrites.

That's a pretty empty sentiment - nobody likes a hyperbolic hypocrite.

 

Quote

Eyeball - aren't you the iconoclastic billionaire-hater and leftist who doubts the government every step of the way?

Yes, doubting the government, especially when they're in the company of billionaires, is definitely my strongest left-wing trait.

Why isn't it your's?

Quote

Why are you bowing to the beck and call of the wealthy elite and the most corrupt governments in the western hemisphere?

 

Would you please stop babbling and wasting my time.

 

Quote

As long as oil is being bought and sold on the world market we should be doing business just like everyone else, and we definitely shouldn't be importing oil from the middle east while we're shutting down our own oil production.

I've especially said we should shutting down any production that's bound to be sold to the biggest dictatorship on the planet.

BTW I really have to say that nothing signals virtue louder than right-wingers swearing of that filthy unethical oil we buy from Saudi Arabia. 

[Guest PPC2019]

Maybe eating bugs will be a solution to climate change. If we eat bugs, we can lower our carbon footprint, to make room for billions of more people.

 

 

[jacee]

On 11/10/2019 at 12:40 AM, PPC2019 said:

Let me give you a lesson in logic. No one that official represents the PPC, would waste there time on a site that has about 10 people posting their opinions 75% of the time.

I like the PPC, but I doubt they would like me.

I'm just a guy ranting, like the other conservatives patriots on this site... sick and tired of the wasteful spending, and Canada Last, policies from the Left.

We also support our oil, because we don't like sending billions to Saudi Arabia who conduct honor killings, and stone women to death for adultery.

Canada produces some of the most ethical oil in the world... The workers are treated with dignity and respect... They get paid a living wage... and I won't apologize for that.

Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet and human life on it.

There is no such thing as "ethical oil". 

Taking money out of every Canadian's pocket to subsidize the floundering, failing, destructive oil industry is a crime of immense proportions. The oil industry is not profitable without public subsidies.

IF we had a free market now, renewable energy would be booming with investments and profits, and the oil industry would be dead.

The oil industry is just a huge welfare scam now.  

But you don't really care about business anyway, WestCanMan.

You're just one of those white supremacist trolls who are  latching onto the oil industry as an excuse to push your anti-Muslim racist propaganda. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by jacee

[jacee]

18 hours ago, bcsapper said:

The problem with climate change is that it feeds itself.  Notwithstanding human caused effects, the warmer we get, the more nature insists on contributing.  With fires, melting ice and permafrost, many of the results of climate change contribute to its acceleration.  I daresay that's one of the reasons why every effort made so far to reduce greenhouse gases actually hasn't.

I agree no-one knows.  I've always had almost as much disdain for the modellers as I have for those who insist it can be stopped, but I would argue that "things will get a little warmer" isn't going to cover it.  The main issue isn't going to be how warm we get, but rather, how everyone who lives where it is too warm is going to want to come and live with us.  I don't think we've seen anything yet.

A major technological breakthrough could change everything, of course, and I keep my fingers crossed.

The technologies exist now.

What we need is a free market breakthrough. 

The oil industry is now only profitable because it is propped up by public subsidies, distorting the free market.

Get oil off welfare: Remove only 30% of public oil subsidies, and the renewable energy industry is immediately more profitable. Investors immediately abandon oil, and both investments and profits flow to the renewable energy industry.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/01/fossil-fuel-subsidy-cash-pay-green-energy-transition

Redirecting small portion of subsidies would unleash clean energy revolution, says report

Easy.

Not complicated.

Remove some oil subsidies.   

Free the market.

Save the world.  

It is that simple. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by jacee

[Yzermandius19]

On 11/8/2019 at 5:46 PM, PPC2019 said:

That will only work one time, and then mankind will never take overpopulation seriously again. It must be humane, so future generations will continue to care.

Overpopulation isn't serious, the world isn't having enough kids, even in countries with high birth rates now are falling dramatically and will be near or below replacement not too far into the future, the world won't get over 10 billion and then the population will fall. Your Malthusian Overpopulation predictions are as inaccurate as those of Malthus himself.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, jacee said:

The technologies exist now.

What we need is a free market breakthrough. 

The oil industry is now only profitable because it is propped up by public subsidies, distorting the free market.

Get oil off welfare: Remove only 30% of public oil subsidies, and the renewable energy industry is immediately more profitable. Investors immediately abandon oil, and both investments and profits flow to the renewable energy industry.

Easy. Not complicated.

Remove some oil subsidies.   

Free the market.

Save the world.  

It is that simple. 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/aug/01/fossil-fuel-subsidy-cash-pay-green-energy-transition

"Redirecting small portion of subsidies would unleash clean energy revolution, says report"

It all sounds good, but I don't agree that's coming anytime soon.  I don't know where you live, but you only have to go into a city to know that it's going to be many, many years before all those vehicles run on electricity, and the electricity comes from renewables.  (Has anyone thought what we are going to do with all the gas powered vehicles, some of which might only be a couple of years old, with only a few K on the engines, when the gasoline suddenly stops?)

And that's just in the west.  The rest of the world will follow when they feel like it. 

How long will it be before everyone in Canada is heating their homes on renewables?  Here in Alberta we are just transitioning from coal to natural gas for our power.  That's probably at least a twenty year plan.  (Guessing there, but probably low)

 

 

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Overpopulation isn't serious, the world isn't having enough kids, even in countries with high birth rates now are falling dramatically and will be near or below replacement not too far into the future, the world won't get over 10 billion and then the population will fall. Your Malthusian Overpopulation predictions are as inaccurate as those of Malthus himself.

Everyone blames some guy called Malthus for something that is mindmeltingly obvious.  Honestly, anyone with an IQ above their shoe size can figure that out without going off and finding some obscure philosopher to validate what they see.

[Yzermandius19]

Just now, bcsapper said:

Everyone blames some guy called Malthus for something that is mindmeltingly obvious.  Honestly, anyone with an IQ above their shoe size can figure that out without going off and finding some obscure philosopher to validate what they see.

If it's so obvious, why are the Doomsday Cults wrong every time?

[Guest]

Just now, Yzermandius19 said:

If it's so obvious, why are the Doomsday Cults wrong every time?

Oooh, don't tell me, I know this one! 

Because they're Doomsday Cults?

[Yzermandius19]

9 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Oooh, don't tell me, I know this one! 

Because they're Doomsday Cults?

Well yeah, but specifically I mean. 

It's because they take current rates of population growth and extrapolate into the future without factoring in how those rates are likely to change, then they look at the current resources available in the world and act like no further resources will be discovered or that technology won't allow people to get more out of those resources in the future, and then they add that all those misleading statistics together, which leads to a prediction of doomsday.

That is the specific pattern of Malthusian Doomsday Cults, always talking about overpopulation and mass starvation, because they misguidedly believe the world is overpopulated, but that isn't based on science in the end, that is based on belief. They simply go cherry picking stats to back up that belief, but it's not science at all.

Edited November 11, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Guest PPC2019]

2 hours ago, jacee said:

Burning fossil fuels is killing the planet and human life on it.

There is no such thing as "ethical oil". 

Taking money out of every Canadian's pocket to subsidize the floundering, failing, destructive oil industry is a crime of immense proportions. The oil industry is not profitable without public subsidies.

IF we had a free market now, renewable energy would be booming with investments and profits, and the oil industry would be dead.

The oil industry is just a huge welfare scam now.  

But you don't really care about business anyway, WestCanMan.

You're just one of those white supremacist trolls who are  latching onto the oil industry as an excuse to push your anti-Muslim racist propaganda. 

I hope the folks in Alberta read what i'm reading, and realized I've been right all along. It's time to separate from Canada. Not everyone wants to live in a third world country, where everything is shut down... but that's the way Canada is headed, if people with your philosophy get more power.

We had subsidies under Kathleen Wynne. They were paying people with solar panels 10 times value to sell their electricity back to the grid. We never saw solar panels on everyone home, but they were put on enough homes where Ontario ended up having the largest debt of any province or state in the word.

Now we have Doug Ford having to make severe cuts to health care and education to bail us out, and the people on the left call him a sociopath.

While too many Canadians listen to people like you, and not me... places like China are building 600 kph Maglev trains.

A Canadian visiting to Shenzhen is like and Irish person visiting New York city in 1925. As soon as you get there, you will feel like you just left a Third World Country.

 

It's time for Canada to modernize and quite making themselves the eco scapegoat for the rest of the planet.

Let's build our economy, and build our infrastructure, and for once put Canada First!

Alberta has that opportunity if they Join Northern Bc, Saskatchewan, the Yukon, Yellowknife... Get smart and export their oil through prince Rupert. What are they waiting for? It could be a good thing. If Alberta goes, the rest of Canada will snap out of it... and wake up in a hurry.

 

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by PPC2019