What to do about China

[Guest ProudConservative]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Doesn't matter what I think....those are/were Canada's choices, so live with them.   Don't expect the United States (or Australia) to do the heavy lifting against China.  Trump has already engaged China on trade like no other national leader.

The Titan I/II ICBMs were decommissioned because they used dangerous liquid/hypergolic propellants and better targeting precision was possible with more modern ballistic missiles.   Large yield warheads are not necessary when more warheads can be deployed with better precision.  

 

Ya... but this tells China.... If one of these goes off, no bunker in Beijing is gonna save you ass.

Edited April 30, 2020 by ProudConservative

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

Ya... but this tells China.... Back the F@ck off.

 

 

No it doesn't...China is striving to increase conventional and nuclear forces to counter any U.S. threat.

 

[Guest ProudConservative]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No it doesn't...China is striving to increase conventional and nuclear forces to counter any U.S. threat.

 

And what do you got... Almost all your nukes are decommisioned. I watched a documentary about your aging nukes, and they think some of them won't even fire... because the telephone cord is erroding.

Seriosuly some believe that if America stops buying Chinese junk... they will no longer be dependent on our income, and will more likely decide to nuke us.... I don't care lets starve them to dealth economically. Less money going to China, means less money going to their military. It worked for Reagan.

Edited April 30, 2020 by ProudConservative

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, ProudConservative said:

And what do you got... Almost all your nukes are decommisioned. I watched a documentary about your aging nukes, and they think some of them won't even fire... because the telephone cord is erroding.

 

Don't worry about American nukes, which work fine and are far more numerous than China's.

Worry about Canada....you have none.

[Guest ProudConservative]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Don't worry about American nukes, which work fine and are far more numerous than China's.

Worry about Canada....you have none.

Stop using every chance you get, to insult Canada alright. We have a common enemy. We're in this together.

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

Stop using every chance you get, to insult Canada alright. We have a common enemy. We're in this together.

 

No...I will not stop....Canada has a habit of contributing far less but expecting far more of others.   Insulting the U.S. is a popular sport in Canada.

Screw that....you wanna fight China...go for it.   Send in Trudeau with his mismatched battle socks...that should make the Chinese laugh themselves to death.

Edited April 30, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[Queenmandy85]

7 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Don't worry about American nukes, which work fine and are far more numerous than China's.

Worry about Canada....you have none.

That doesn't really matter. After a nuclear exchange, 90% of the earth's population would die in the first month. The rest would go within the following week. Remember fallout shelters? Like President Kennedy said during the Cuban Missile Crisis, "The fruits of victory would be ashes in our mouths." 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Queenmandy85

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Queenmandy85 said:

That doesn't really matter. after a nuclear exchange, 90% of the earth's population would die in the first month. The rest would go within the following week. Remember fallout shelters? Like President Kennedy said during the Cuban Missile Crisis, "The fruits of victory would be ashes in our mouths." 

 

Then maybe some Canadians should stop pretending that "big brother" America is going to attack China with ICBMs.

China is a global superpower that is not going away.....has existed for over 5,000 years.

 

[taxme]

17 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

You're right... We have been freeloaders, and pathetic. We have to admit our shortcomings, if we are to defeat a common enemy. We must help out, in the best ways we can. It doesn't mean we can afford to build aircraft carriers... but we need to pull more of our own weight. It's time for Canada to come clean about their B.S. towards the States. We don't have time for infighting, so we have to shollow our pride and admit when we're wrong. Why did you decommision those 9mt Titans?

As long as we have comrade loving China Trudeau running Canada we will never be able to really get along all that well with America, especially with Trump as President. Trump is a Capitalist. Trudeau is a communist. Canada is fast becoming a country of freeloaders alright. We are bringing them in every year by the hundreds of thousands from countries that will never be able to offer Canada all that much anyway. What do we mostly get from these new immigrants anyway? All I ever see is that we are getting more foreign food type restaurants, more foreign type grocery stores, and more takeovers of Canadian company's and jobs. It is costing the taxpayer's of Canada hundreds of millions of their tax dollars every year to feed, clothe, and house many of those freeloaders immigrating or for the ones sneaking into Canada illegally. Plenty of tax dollars for them but not much left for Canada and Canadians. It's not Canadians that are wrecking this country. It is comrade Trudeau and his not so merry band of ilks and his present day immigration policy that is doing that. China can go kiss my arse. 

But what Canada must do one day when comrade Trudeau is finally gone, well maybe be gone, is to cut all ties to China. The communists are no friends of Canada or the rest of the free world. Canada would be great if we had real and true leaders who gave a shit more about Canada and Canadians rather than countries like China or the rest of the world. Canada does not need China for anything. We can do quite well without having to deal with a communist Chinese government dictatorship that enslaves and takes the right of free speech and assembly and murder it's people. It's quite obvious to note that our dear comrade leaders and the Canadian media have no problems dealing and admiring China. China can go kiss my arse. Works for me. 

[Guest ProudConservative]

19 minutes ago, taxme said:

As long as we have comrade loving China Trudeau running Canada we will never be able to really get along all that well with America, especially with Trump as President. Trump is a Capitalist. Trudeau is a communist. Canada is fast becoming a country of freeloaders alright. We are bringing them in every year by the hundreds of thousands from countries that will never be able to offer Canada all that much anyway. What do we mostly get from these new immigrants anyway? All I ever see is that we are getting more foreign food type restaurants, more foreign type grocery stores, and more takeovers of Canadian company's and jobs. It is costing the taxpayer's of Canada hundreds of millions of their tax dollars every year to feed, clothe, and house many of those freeloaders immigrating or for the ones sneaking into Canada illegally. Plenty of tax dollars for them but not much left for Canada and Canadians. It's not Canadians that are wrecking this country. It is comrade Trudeau and his not so merry band of ilks and his present day immigration policy that is doing that. China can go kiss my arse. 

But what Canada must do one day when comrade Trudeau is finally gone, well maybe be gone, is to cut all ties to China. The communists are no friends of Canada or the rest of the free world. Canada would be great if we had real and true leaders who gave a shit more about Canada and Canadians rather than countries like China or the rest of the world. Canada does not need China for anything. We can do quite well without having to deal with a communist Chinese government dictatorship that enslaves and takes the right of free speech and assembly and murder it's people. It's quite obvious to note that our dear comrade leaders and the Canadian media have no problems dealing and admiring China. China can go kiss my arse. Works for me. 

Come on Australia is sticking their neck out for the world, while Americans twiddle their thumbs. Maybe Canada should bipass the US, and show some solidarity with our Australian allies. We have trolls like Bush Cheney, using every chance she gets to talk Sh@t about our country. I've talked to other Americans who think the same way. We can reach out to Americans, but if they don't want out support.... lets not waste any time on them.

Edited April 30, 2020 by ProudConservative

[Guest ProudConservative]

I don't want a nuclear war with China... I just want our self-respect. Americans shouldn't let their nukes deteriorate into rust. That's all i'm saying. The Chinese think we're a joke, because we act like a joke. If we continue to act like a deer in the headlights, China will take over. I for one, am inspired by Australians growing a pair. Americans can't even sort themselves out.

Maintaining your military isn't about a rush to war. It's about maintaining your self respect. When we let China make all our crap, we have no self-respect. We show that we are too cheap to help our own citizens find jobs, in our own factories.

Edited April 30, 2020 by ProudConservative

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, ProudConservative said:

I don't want a nuclear war with China... I just want our self-respect. Americans shouldn't let their nukes deteriorate into rust. That's all i'm saying. The Chinese think we're a joke, because we act like a joke. If we continue to act like a deer in the headlights, China will take over. I for one, am inspired by Australians growing a pair. American san even sort themselves out.

 

You cannot get self respect by making demands of Americans.   Canada has refused to engage at such levels, so why expect it from other nations ?

Canada has repeatedly declined participation in ballistic missile defenses and counter-strike forces.

America will pursue American interests, not Canadian interests.   China seeks to emulate the U.S. for global military and economic power...not Canada.

[bush_cheney2004]

9 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

Come on Australia is sticking their neck out for the world, while Americans twiddle their thumbs. Maybe Canada should bipass the US, and show some solidarity with our Australian allies. We can trolls like Bush Cheney, using every chance she gets to talk Sh@t about our country. I've talked to other Americans who think the same way. We can reach out to Americans, but if they don't want out support.... lets not waste any time on them.

 

Great idea....stop whining to Americans....try whining to Australia instead and see how far that gets.

Australia sold its obsolete and corroding F/A-18 fighters to Canada on the cheap with Trump's permission.

...'cause that's how Canada rolls, and the whole world knows it....including China.

[Guest ProudConservative]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

You cannot get self respect by making demands of Americans.   Canada has refused to engage at such levels, so why expect it from other nations ?

Canada has repeatedly declined participation in ballistic missile defenses and counter-strike forces.

America will pursue American interests, not Canadian interests.   China seeks to emulate the U.S. for global military and economic power...not Canada.

And you don't get respect being on a Canadian forum... Talking 100% trash about out country 100% of the time, just because you find it entertaining. Get a life.

Edited April 30, 2020 by ProudConservative

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, ProudConservative said:

And you don't get respect being on a Canadian forum... Talking 100% trash about out country 100% of the time, just because you find it entertaining. Get a life.

 

Don't dish it out if you can't take it.   

Get a credible national defense without hiding behind America.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada-China relations under Trudeau.....

 

Quote

China just laughed in Canada's face – what now?

...“We hope that the Canadian side will not be too naive,” said Geng Shuang. “First, Canada shouldn’t naively think that gathering so-called allies to put pressure on China will work. Second, the Canadian side should not naively believe that its so-called allies can really make concrete efforts for Canada’s interests. What they are doing at most is lip service, because after all it is a matter between China and Canada.”

This is China laughing in our faces — telling us that we don’t have as many friends as we think and that even when our “so-called allies” do step forward to lobby our cause, they’re only doing it half-heartedly.

...There’s something more worrisome about that statement though than just the basic fact that China is now at the point in these escalating tensions where they feel confident laughing at us. It’s the way they dismiss this whole notion of gathering allies together to press for an outcome. By doing this, they’re laughing at our whole way of viewing global affairs.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/furey-china-just-laughed-in-canadas-face-what-now

 

[Zeitgeist]

15 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Canada-China relations under Trudeau.....

 

 

China and the US both throw their weight around to pressure countries to get what they want.  What both countries don’t appreciate is that the oppression dealt towards other countries is also dealt inwards.  China’s foreign policy reflects its domestic policy.  The US is better behaved, but we see examples of domestic neglect and wonder how such a powerful country could have so many domestic problems.  Perhaps spending less on your military and directing more funding towards public health and education will provide more solid and lasting strength.  In the end, China is not an enviable place because life in China is shittier for the average person.  The US is a better place to be, but much is determined by your level of privilege or income.  Canada is no worker’s paradise, but I prefer our setup.  

Edited April 30, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

18 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

China and the US both throw their weight around to pressure countries and get what they want.  What both countries don’t appreciate is that the oppression dealt towards other countries is also dealt inwards.  China’s foreign policy reflects its domestic policy.  The US is better behaved, but we see examples of domestic neglect and wonder how such a powerful country could have so many domestic problems.  

 

Agreed, but Canada has been very naive to expect otherwise and depend on a USA that has such domestic and foreign policies.  China has exposed Canada to the realities of global competition and power, forced to acknowledge the old "post WW2 order" is breaking down.   Trudeau and Freeland are living in a past that no longer exists....America cannot and will not continue the "Grand Bargain" as before.

If America diverted military spending to domestic programs instead, it would still be criticized by Canada/NATO/EU.

In the end, the U.S. will have to live with its choices, and Canada will have to live with its own.

Edited to add:   More immigrants still prefer the U.S. over Canada...for over 100 years.

Edited April 30, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed, but Canada has been very naive to expect otherwise and depend on a USA that has such domestic and foreign policies.  China has exposed Canada to the realities of global competition and power, forced to acknowledge the old "post WW2 order" is breaking down.   Trudeau and Freeland are living in a past that no longer exists....America cannot and will not continue the "Grand Bargain" as before.

If America diverted military spending to domestic programs instead, it would still be criticized by Canada/NATO/EU.

In the end, the U.S. will have to live with its choices, and Canada will have to live with its own.

Edited to add:   More immigrants still prefer the U.S. over Canada...for over 100 years.

You keep telling yourself that.  That America is not the one I see today.  Our tolerance has recently attracted freedom loving computer scientists and engineers who don’t want to deal with Trump’s jingoistic bans, the dark downside of America First.  

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You keep telling yourself that.  That America is not the one I see today.  Our tolerance has recently attracted freedom loving computer scientists and engineers who don’t want to deal with Trump’s jingoistic bans, the dark downside of America First.  

 

That's fine, but more of your home grown "computer scientists" leave for more plentiful and better paying jobs in the USA.   Far more visa workers seek employment in the USA.  

Think beyond Trump and America if you can...the world is changing and China will be part of it to a growing degree.

I would ask you why Canada is so focused on the USA, but I already know the answer.

Edited April 30, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's fine, but more of your home grown "computer scientists" leave for more plentiful and better paying jobs in the USA.   Far more visa workers seek employment in the USA.  

Think beyond Trump and America if you can...the world is changing and China will be part of it to a growing degree.

I would ask you why Canada is so focused on the USA, but I already know the answer.

That’s fine.  Canada is a colder country.  It’s not as agreeable in that regard and America is the big Coca Cola ad in the village.  Canada isn’t as much on the radar, which can be an advantage. 

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

That’s fine.  Canada is a colder country.  It’s not as agreeable in that regard and America is the big Coca Cola ad in the village.  Canada isn’t as much on the radar, which can be an advantage. 

 

Canada is trying to navigate a changing world with very few options.   Canada has no Plan B.   China can easily smell the weaknesses and vulnerabilities, engaging in proxy battles without directly confronting the world's reigning superpower.  

Being a "post national state" may serve political interests in Canada, but America has attracted far more immigrants to a very much American experience with higher risks and opportunity. Coca-Cola is a world brand.

Different countries....will do things differently.    Canada should do Canada without demanding that Americans do the same.

[Independent1986]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

How many Canadian ships and submarines are in the South China Sea ?   How many aircraft in the region ?   How many troops in South Korea, Japan, or Australia ?   

Exactly, you spend the money and we enjoy the peace, for free. So we are taking advantage of you, I mean if I own a business and the security is done by another business for free why worry about it ? We let that for the Bushes, Cheney, Obama, Bill Clinton, Trump. 

On behalf of Canadians we do thank you. God Save the Queen. Close your eyes and imagine Dick Cheney then imagine the Queen it will help you understand the difference between our 2 nations. 

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Independent1986 said:

Exactly, you spend the money and we enjoy the peace, for free. So we are taking advantage of you, I mean if I own a business and the security is done by another business for free why worry about it ? We let that for the Bushes, Cheney, Obama, Bill Clinton, Trump.

 

Not without some costs, as Canada pays directly and indirectly through lost influence, loss of "middle power" status, no "seat at the table", yada, yada, yada.   Trudeau struggles even to get a rotating UNSC seat.

China has exploited this global affairs weakness, and will continue to do so.

 

Quote

On behalf of Canadians we do thank you. God Save the Queen. Close your eyes and imagine Dick Cheney then imagine the Queen it will help you understand the difference between our 2 nations. 

 

The differences were violently defined over 240 years ago.

 

 

[Independent1986]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

China has exploited this global affairs weakness, and will continue to do s

 

The only weakness is the U.S. debt to China = $1.07 trillion as of December 2019.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Independent1986