FutureForYouth Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 This topic has been beaten to death, grow up and move on Quote
egghead Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 4 hours ago, mowich said: Well that's it for Wilson-Raybould and probably Philpot too. They are gone from caucus after this latest revelation from the former AG. I listened to the entire tape of the conversation she had with the clerk of the privy council that she recorded without his knowledge. There is absolutely no doubt that her perception of undue pressure being applied was correct. Wernick is like a dog with a bone and keeps coming back time and again at her about how important the DPA is to the PM. She states clearly that she is trying to protect the PM from political interference in the case but that didn't stop Wernick. There is no way the liberals can continue to keep Wilson-Raybould in caucus now as the other MPs will demand she be expelled - right or wrong - she is gone. So the never-ending tale of SNC Lavalin continues - more fodder for the MSM and the opposition and really bad news for the PM and the liberals. I did not listen the entire tape. I think Michael Wernick is done too.It is because he blamed JWR at hearings. Now, this came up, it seems that Liberal tried to save JT brand Michael Wernick never briefed Trudeau that he spoke with Wilson-Raybould: PMO https://globalnews.ca/news/5113193/pmo-michael-wernick-jody-wilson-raybould/ Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 7 hours ago, egghead said: It would only if JT were Trump. It is all about JT brand , and that brand has lower approval rating than Trump now. It showed that bad mouthing JWR did not work. Liberal party is doubling down on the victimhood and makes Lavalin a villain (it will not be a problem as long as liberal is in power). Ya, JT made a mistake (being weak). However, he will learn from that mistake. Liberal bets on that a helpless JT will appeal to their base. It is certainly true that Trudeau has a faithful base no matter what...same as Trump. The political difference, however, is that Trump has never painted himself as a virtuous promoter of transparency, feminism, and indigenous rights. Trudeau's brand has been damaged by the scandal, and his response to it. Not lethal...yet...but much worse than his four ethics violations. It is also quite clear now where JWR's bravery came from....a smoking gun that she recorded knowing full well how this was going to go down. 2 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Zeitgeist Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 7 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: It is certainly true that Trudeau has a faithful base no matter what...same as Trump. The political difference, however, is that Trump has never painted himself as a virtuous promoter of transparency, feminism, and indigenous rights. Trudeau's brand has been damaged by the scandal, and his response to it. Not lethal...yet...but much worse than his four ethics violations. It is also quite clear now where JWR's bravery came from....a smoking gun that she recorded knowing full well how this was going to go down. Jody Wilson-Raybould is a dangerous person. It’s clear now, after having admitted that she inappropriately recorded phone conversations with Wernick, that JWR was trying to build a case against the PMO and Trudeau in particular. She never denied that she could overrule the prosecutor for the sake of a DPA for SNC. Instead she focused on painting a picture of political interference, though she herself said no laws were broken. JWR and Philpotts are weakening the party and must be kicked out of caucus. Trudeau needs to show strength and make an example of these traitors. Hopefully Lametti can do a DPA. Instead what will probably happen is that the Liberal government will remain paralyzed by this internal coup, SNC will move its head offices out of Canada, pipelines won’t get built, and if we’re lucky, a Conservative government won’t get bogged down by mutinous characters, identity politics, and environmental extremists. I say that as someone who supports the Paris Accord to fight climate change. If Trudeau can’t re-establish authority and get things done, he’ll have to go. Any party that makes similar mistakes to Trudeau, courting radicals and pandering to special interests, will suffer a similar fate. 1 Quote
cannuck Posted March 30, 2019 Author Report Posted March 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: . Hopefully Lametti can do a DPA. Go back and read Rue's excellent (and professionally qualified) analysis of the legal position - SNC does not qualify. You are right, though, JWR and Philpott are dangerous people - since they are telling the truth and the whole truth. They are dangerous to lying sacks of excrement that fill the PMO. 1 1 Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 The great thing about democracy is that laws can be changed through Parliament. That’s how DPA legislation was introduced. Laws must always be in the public interest. Indeed the public determines them. 1 Quote
Realitycheck Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: Jody Wilson-Raybould is a dangerous person. It’s clear now, after having admitted that she inappropriately recorded phone conversations with Wernick, that JWR was trying to build a case against the PMO and Trudeau in particular. She never denied that she could overrule the prosecutor for the sake of a DPA for SNC. Instead she focused on painting a picture of political interference, though she herself said no laws were broken. JWR and Philpotts are weakening the party and must be kicked out of caucus. Trudeau needs to show strength and make an example of these traitors. Hopefully Lametti can do a DPA. Instead what will probably happen is that the Liberal government will remain paralyzed by this internal coup, SNC will move its head offices out of Canada, pipelines won’t get built, and if we’re lucky, a Conservative government won’t get bogged down by mutinous characters, identity politics, and environmental extremists. I say that as someone who supports the Paris Accord to fight climate change. If Trudeau can’t re-establish authority and get things done, he’ll have to go. Any party that makes similar mistakes to Trudeau, courting radicals and pandering to special interests, will suffer a similar fate. She is only dangerous to the corrupt Liberal caucus. There is nothing either inappropriate or illegal in her taping her phone calls. It is done all the time by many different people in many walks of life. The Criminal Code allows such taping in fact. She has proven there was political interference, Period. SNC had a huge loan with a Quebec Caisse one of the condition of which is they must keep their HQ in Quebec until well into the 20's. So their threat to fold up their tents and steal away in the night is and empty one. Even if they did, there are many companies in Canada capable of completing the pipelines, so SNC is not critical to that. There! That is a little dose of reality for your narrow little world. Quote
Realitycheck Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: The great thing about democracy is that laws can be changed through Parliament. That’s how DPA legislation was introduced. Laws must always be in the public interest. Indeed the public determines them. DPA's are not in the public interest in any way at all. It favours politicians doing favours for major backers and that is all it does. Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Realitycheck said: DPA's are not in the public interest in any way at all. It favours politicians doing favours for major backers and that is all it does. I disagree. Majority will decide in the next election. Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Realitycheck said: She is only dangerous to the corrupt Liberal caucus. There is nothing either inappropriate or illegal in her taping her phone calls. It is done all the time by many different people in many walks of life. The Criminal Code allows such taping in fact. She has proven there was political interference, Period. SNC had a huge loan with a Quebec Caisse one of the condition of which is they must keep their HQ in Quebec until well into the 20's. So their threat to fold up their tents and steal away in the night is and empty one. Even if they did, there are many companies in Canada capable of completing the pipelines, so SNC is not critical to that. There! That is a little dose of reality for your narrow little world. You’re just radical special interest. NDP and Greens. Going nowhere. Quote
egghead Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: I disagree. Majority will decide in the next election. Where have you been? In the last couple years, election result has nothing with majority. It is all on the party base + something. Quote
Realitycheck Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 23 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: I disagree. Majority will decide in the next election. No. Politicians will decide. Even if the damnable Conservative/Reform party gets in, they'll like this little tool. Quote
Realitycheck Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: You’re just radical special interest. NDP and Greens. Going nowhere. You don't tire of being wrong do you? The NDP are joke wherever they are. Singh is merely a placeholder and the NDP will push him over the nearest cliff with a back full of knives after the next election. Hell, he only made "Leader" because the very desperate NDP hoped he'd draw the East Indian vote. The Greens are all flakes. Period. Quote
OftenWrong Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Jody Wilson-Raybould is a dangerous person. It’s clear now, after having admitted that she inappropriately recorded phone conversations with Wernick, that JWR was trying to build a case against the PMO and Trudeau in particular. Yes, she's clearly the villain here, by building a case against their improprieties. Interesting how people suddenly think politics and loyalty matters more than the law. Quote JWR and Philpotts are weakening the party and must be kicked out of caucus. Trudeau needs to show strength and make an example of these traitors. Hopefully Lametti can do a DPA. Yes but that is also political suicide. There is no move Trudeau can make now that helps him. All he can do is tread softly, and say little. Very little! Yet his enemies continue to fire jabs and political head shots at him, with many a right cross, it seems. His legs are getting wobbly! Only one more sucker-punch, and he's down for the count. 2 Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 The public interest matters above all other considerations. Obviously there are necessary policies and processes in place to ensure that there is compensation when people’s homes are expropriated to build an LRT or road to serve the public interest. We can see now how impossible it has become to build pipelines and develop resources due to the need to consult with and warm the hearts of everyone. The Puritanical interpretation of law that prevents a DPA is JWR’s problem, not Lametti’s. The PM has to think of the best interests of the country, taking into account a disciplinary action against bad actors, as in the case of the handful of bribers at SNC, as well as the impact on thousands of workers and high paying, high expertise jobs at a Canadian head office. His mistake was empowering dissent in the first place. He meant well and was naive. The Conservatives will likely win the election as a result. JWR didn’t articulate her reasoning for rejecting an intervention in SNC, just as she failed to intervene in the case of a man unjustly imprisoned for a murder he didn’t commit (the file sat on her desk for months). I’m sorry that underhanded JWR’s feelings were hurt and that she felt pressure. Now can we get on with the business of government, like setting up the conditions for decent employment and living standards? 1 Quote
Realitycheck Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: The public interest matters above all other considerations. Obviously there are necessary policies and processes in place to ensure that there is compensation when people’s homes are expropriated to build an LRT or road to serve the public interest. We can see now how impossible it has become to build pipelines and develop resources due to the need to consult with and warm the hearts of everyone. The Puritanical interpretation of law that prevents a DPA is JWR’s problem, not Lametti’s. The PM has to think of the best interests of the country, taking into account a disciplinary action against bad actors, as in the case of the handful of bribers at SNC, as well as the impact on thousands of workers and high paying, high expertise jobs at a Canadian head office. His mistake was empowering dissent in the first place. He meant well and was naive. The Conservatives will likely win the election as a result. JWR didn’t articulate her reasoning for rejecting an intervention in SNC, just as she failed to intervene in the case of a man unjustly imprisoned for a murder he didn’t commit (the file sat on her desk for months). I’m sorry that underhanded JWR’s feelings were hurt and that she felt pressure. Now can we get on with the business of government, like setting up the conditions for decent employment and living standards? I can just see you. Fingers in your ears saying "lalalalala can't hear you". There is something seriously amiss with a person who would turn a blind eye to criminality and make pathetic excuse for allowing it. I am certain there is a position for you in Trudeau's ambient. SNC cannot leave the country as it has contractual obligations keeping it here, the breaking of which would in itself be ruinous. Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Realitycheck said: I can just see you. Fingers in your ears saying "lalalalala can't hear you". There is something seriously amiss with a person who would turn a blind eye to criminality and make pathetic excuse for allowing it. I am certain there is a position for you in Trudeau's ambient. SNC cannot leave the country as it has contractual obligations keeping it here, the breaking of which would in itself be ruinous. Ruinous indeed if they declare bankruptcy or simply shut down Canadian operations. You can’t make a company continue to exist. You’re focusing on one interpretation of the law, which is fine if you’re trying to throw Trudeau under the bus to get the Conservatives elected, a popular tactic right now. Just don’t make this about JWR’s virtue. She has an agenda that is not the agenda of her party leadership. She’s done questionable work and leaned heavily on the “independence of the Justice Minister” narrative. Don’t get me wrong, she’s no dummy. She’s ambitious and always wanted to be a PM. As long as she is in the party I don’t for in the federal election, all good. 1 Quote
Realitycheck Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Ruinous indeed if they declare bankruptcy or simply shut down Canadian operations. You can’t make a company continue to exist. You’re focusing on one interpretation of the law, which is fine if you’re trying to throw Trudeau under the bus to get the Conservatives elected, a popular tactic right now. Just don’t make this about JWR’s virtue. She has an agenda that is not the agenda of her party leadership. She’s done questionable work and leaned heavily on the “independence of the Justice Minister” narrative. Don’t get me wrong, she’s no dummy. She’s ambitious and always wanted to be a PM. As long as she is in the party I don’t for in the federal election, all good. They are not going to declare bankruptcy. It is a very viable company world-wide. You are simply fear-mongering and they are simply trying to avoid paying a huge fine or having a few of their upper echelon spending some time at her majesty's convenience. The Liberals only chance of winning the fall election now is to make Jody the party leader. Otherwise the damnable Scheer will be the next PM and if you think things are bad now, wait until that bible-thumper gets his sleazy mitts on the levers of power. Quote
mowich Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Jody Wilson-Raybould is a dangerous person. It’s clear now, after having admitted that she inappropriately recorded phone conversations with Wernick, that JWR was trying to build a case against the PMO and Trudeau in particular. She never denied that she could overrule the prosecutor for the sake of a DPA for SNC. Instead she focused on painting a picture of political interference, though she herself said no laws were broken. JWR and Philpotts are weakening the party and must be kicked out of caucus. Trudeau needs to show strength and make an example of these traitors. Hopefully Lametti can do a DPA. Instead what will probably happen is that the Liberal government will remain paralyzed by this internal coup, SNC will move its head offices out of Canada, pipelines won’t get built, and if we’re lucky, a Conservative government won’t get bogged down by mutinous characters, identity politics, and environmental extremists. I say that as someone who supports the Paris Accord to fight climate change. If Trudeau can’t re-establish authority and get things done, he’ll have to go. Any party that makes similar mistakes to Trudeau, courting radicals and pandering to special interests, will suffer a similar fate. What I expect will happen, is that he will simply leave it up to caucus to kick them out - as well they should be - and walk out of the room. 1 Quote
mowich Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Realitycheck said: For someone with your moniker - one would think you would realize that the bridge to a leadership run was burned by the former AG herself. She has zero chance of becoming anything more than a post-note to history. Disloyalty has its own consequences and after the revelation of that clandestine taped phone call, who in their right mind would let her near any file of consequence knowing that she might do the exact same thing again. Her colleagues have every right to be fearful of her and demand that she be removed ASAP. 1 Quote
Realitycheck Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, mowich said: What I expect will happen, is that he will simply leave it up to caucus to kick them out - as well they should be - and walk out of the room. Our milquetoast PM is paralyzed by indecision. No matter what he does, he'll piss off some group. But if he boots these two fine ladies, his opponents will cheer mightily. The government is suffering a crises of conscience. For the first time in Canadian history, two politicians hev displayed both morals and ethics and the old boys club doesn't know what do do about this shocking breach of political chicanery. 2 Quote
Realitycheck Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 Just now, mowich said: For someone with your moniker - one would think you would realize that the bridge to a leadership run was burned by the former AG herself. She has zero chance of becoming anything more than a post-note to history. Disloyalty has its own consequences and after the revelation of that clandestine taped phone call, who in their right mind would let her near any file of consequence knowing that she might do the exact same thing again. Her colleagues have every right to be fearful of her and demand that she be removed ASAP. I have no idea if she wants to be PM, she'd be a hell of an improvement over the current embarrassment and the previous hoodlum for certain. People are trying to make a big deal out of the fact she taped a phone call. This is not illegal and is done daily by many people in many walks of life. In fact, the Criminal Code specifically allows such taping. So get down off your high pony and quite trying to make a mountain of a molecule. Quote
Zeitgeist Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, Realitycheck said: They are not going to declare bankruptcy. It is a very viable company world-wide. You are simply fear-mongering and they are simply trying to avoid paying a huge fine or having a few of their upper echelon spending some time at her majesty's convenience. The Liberals only chance of winning the fall election now is to make Jody the party leader. Otherwise the damnable Scheer will be the next PM and if you think things are bad now, wait until that bible-thumper gets his sleazy mitts on the levers of power. Without a DPA SNC, as a Canadian headquartered operation, can be banned from doing business for 10 years. It’s called using a bat to kill a fly. Criminal convictions for the individuals involved and fines for the company are the answer, and these are provided through a DPA. 1 Quote
mowich Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Just don’t make this about JWR’s virtue. She has an agenda that is not the agenda of her party leadership. She’s done questionable work and leaned heavily on the “independence of the Justice Minister” narrative. Don’t get me wrong, she’s no dummy. She’s ambitious and always wanted to be a PM. As long as she is in the party I don’t for in the federal election, all good. "The federal justice minister has said the country “can and must do better” after a white farmer was acquitted in the shooting death of a young Indigenous man ...." https://globalnews.ca/news/4018386/federal-justice-minister-gerald-stanley/ Quote
mowich Posted March 30, 2019 Report Posted March 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Realitycheck said: I have no idea if she wants to be PM, she'd be a hell of an improvement over the current embarrassment and the previous hoodlum for certain. People are trying to make a big deal out of the fact she taped a phone call. This is not illegal and is done daily by many people in many walks of life. In fact, the Criminal Code specifically allows such taping. So get down off your high pony and quite trying to make a mountain of a molecule. Right you are, it wasn't illegal - unethical and questionable? That's another matter altogether. Quote
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.