Are humans really responsible for climate change?

[bush_cheney2004]

19 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

It is pretty simple.  The most difficult part is getting people to stop denying the change and looking for excuses why it shouldn't affect them.  Stanford University Mark Jacobson has done research that finds:

 

Denying ?   Keep thinking that all you have to do is convince people to believe in the climate alarmist religion of pending doom.   Far from denying, climate change is not only being acknowledged but recognized for adaptation opportunities, just as civilization has adapted before.    

Stanford will not convince anybody who hasn't already swallowed the Leap Manifesto Kool-Aid®.

[Guest]

Just now, ReeferMadness said:

Well.  We're all gonna die then.  Let's just give up.

Good thing you're not one of those "alarmists". 

Do I have to repeat what I posted to eyeball?  Don't give up!  Get it done.  Report back when the CO2 starts dropping.

I'm not an alarmist.  I'm a realist.

[ReeferMadness]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Denying ?   Keep thinking that all you have to do is convince people to believe in the climate alarmist religion of pending doom.   Far from denying, climate change is not only being acknowledged but recognized for adaptation opportunities, just as civilization has adapted before.    

Stanford will not convince anybody who hasn't already swallowed the Leap Manifesto Kool-Aid®.

I think Dunning and Kruger might have been reading the nonsense you write when they had their insights.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, ReeferMadness said:

I think Dunning and Kruger might have been reading the nonsense you write when they had their insights.

 

Stop using the term "denying" for a different narrative that you refuse to accept....that is denying.

The U.S. has invested far more into climate change R&D than Canada can even imagine.

[ReeferMadness]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Stop using the term "denying" for a different narrative that you refuse to accept....that is denying.

The U.S. has invested far more into climate change R&D than Canada can even imagine.

Every time you get involved in a discussion, it culminates in the logical equivalent of you chanting U-S-A!!  Find a new schtick so I don't have to block you.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

Every time you get involved in a discussion, it culminates in the logical equivalent of you chanting U-S-A!!  Find a new schtick so I don't have to block you.

 

 

You can't block reality....Canada has lagged behind the U-S-A is GHG emissions reductions despite all the virtue signaling.   Furthermore, the U.S. has spent billions on climate and environmental data collection and analysis for decades with tools that Canada simply does not have.

Denying my ass.....

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, ReeferMadness said:

Europe has much higher gas prices.  The last I checked, they hadn't degenerated to abject poverty.  In Norway, over half of new vehicles sold are EVs.  Maybe Norway is a total hellhole. Or maybe they're just smarter than we are.  Maybe they've figured out that the higher one time costs of EV's is offset by much lower operating costs.

What I'm advocating for is that people living today don't have the right to f*ck up the planet for people who are going to live 50 years from now.  Regardless of whether it raises their cost of living. Do you have a problem with that?

It's ironic that right wingers refer to people who listen to climate scientists as "climate alarmists" and then light their hair on fire at the thought of making changes that will improve everyone's life.  Just a few years ago, there was a guy on here who insisted that using renewable energy would send us back to the stone age. 

Who are the real alarmists?

Distances are much shorter in Europe and the standard of living is lower almost everywhere.   Most people in European centres rent in a form of indentured servitude to the class system.  Few people own second properties and most of the land has been owned by a rich few for centuries.  Yes, the coffee and architecture are better.  

People immigrate here from Europe for the higher standard of living.  I’m glad you chose the exception to the rule, Norway, which is a rich country due to its oil.  I think fighting climate change is important, but we can’t compromise growth too far, as that is the single biggest contributor to human progress in terms of raising living standards, including education and the kind of technological innovation that will really make a difference to emissions.  We do need climate policy, but I suggest doing things that both reduce emissions and improve productivity and quality of life, such as building faster and more frequent light and heavy rail mass transit, complete communities (where employment is available locally and energy production is available locally using tech like geothermal heating and solar shingles), and incentivizing lower energy use through tax breaks.  

Don’t hurt consumers at the pumps where we already pay twice the price Americans pay for our own oil and don’t shut down our resource sector, which is Canada’s bread and butter, no matter how advanced our manufacturing becomes.  The tax revolt is just getting started.  The fall election will be very telling.  

Canada can have a sensible climate action plan that can be expanded when our trading partners commit to similar actions. Otherwise our businesses won’t be able to compete in the global marketplace and we won’t attract the brightest immigrants.   Don’t you see the game here?  Under leaders like Trump it’s all about making/letting other countries make all the sacrifices.  Naive Trudeau plays right into it.  We need the big players to get on board or it’s almost a waste of money for Canadians to fight climate change.  That’s the sad truth.  

Edited May 27, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

42 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Tell them!  Get it all fixed.  Report back when they all reduce their activity so GHG levels start to fall.

I never realised it would be so simple.

It'll be simpler to just wait until we hit 600 - 800 ppm and everyone between 40° north and 40° south dies, maybe that'll give us a clue.

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, ReeferMadness said:

Europe has much higher gas prices.  The last I checked, they hadn't degenerated to abject poverty.  In Norway, over half of new vehicles sold are EVs.  Maybe Norway is a total hellhole. Or maybe they're just smarter than we are.  Maybe they've figured out that the higher one time costs of EV's is offset by much lower operating costs.

What I'm advocating for is that people living today don't have the right to f*ck up the planet for people who are going to live 50 years from now.  Regardless of whether it raises their cost of living. Do you have a problem with that?

It's ironic that right wingers refer to people who listen to climate scientists as "climate alarmists" and then light their hair on fire at the thought of making changes that will improve everyone's life.  Just a few years ago, there was a guy on here who insisted that using renewable energy would send us back to the stone age. 

Who are the real alarmists?

Europe has much higher gas prices but then again they don't have a chioce, which European country is producing enough fossil fuels to be self efficient....Not very many, most are reliant on Russian or middle eastern fuel , Higher gas prices has not deterred them from driving...They still build large motors such as V8, or V16 in the British side, Germany has the autobahn, where you can drive your as fast as it will go , now thats got to be good for the environment..

Are EV cheaper to maintain, batteries don't last forever, all the other components don't last forever either, and when you offset the price of the car to start with are you really ahead of the game, or is it a social thing.

When you can get the other Billions of people on the planet on the same page maybe people will give a shit about what happens 50 years for now, you buy what ever car you want , live the way you want, You can preach all you want, but until everyone is on the same page, I think your wasting your time... ....but even if Canada went dark today, it would make very little difference in the worlds environmental health...

Must be a lot of right wingers around the globe, you liberals had the last 4 years to make changes, and what was done, Carbon tax, which hold on did sweet f*** all to the environment...collect the tax then give everyone back more than they put in, was that not the liberal line....not a plan for reduction , or use that money on R&D for alt fuel tech, or alt power projects...not tax break on things like solar or wind power. nothing for the liberals....even the greens are changing there minds they gone from not one more barrel produced out of the oil sands, to the new slogan lets burn our own oil instead of foreign oil..... 

[ReeferMadness]

Just now, eyeball said:

It'll be simpler to just wait until we hit 600 - 800 ppm and everyone between 40° north and 40° south dies, maybe that'll give us a clue.

Yes, but I hopefully we get a clue quickly.  A Harvard study has shown that levels over 1000 ppm lower certain types of cognitive abilities - the very ones that we'll need to deal with climate change!

[Army Guy]

11 hours ago, GostHacked said:

That's quite derogatory. And simply unnecessary.

I think both of you need to rethink how you post.

In the last couple of months did you find god or something gost, I could pull a few post with you and Charles that were border line nasty , or as you put it, simply unnecessary...

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It'll be simpler to just wait until we hit 600 - 800 ppm and everyone between 40° north and 40° south dies, maybe that'll give us a clue.

At last we're on the same page.  Isn't it nice when we all agree?

 

[eyeball]

19 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

At last we're on the same page.  Isn't it nice when we all agree?

Same page?  We're not even in the same book - we barely speak the same language.  It's not really surprising in our brave new world of alt-facts, alt-science and alt-reality.

I think the story about the Tower of Babel is a good allegory to the global civilization we're seemingly trying to build. At least the people in Babel tried to co-operate.

Edited May 27, 2019 by eyeball

[eyeball]

12 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I think both of you need to rethink how you post.

Its definitely a matter of thinking about thinking. The analogy of the Elephant and the Rider comes to mind.  I struggle with it and I doubt there's very few individuals in the world who don't.

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Same page?  We're not even in the same book - we barely speak the same language.  It's not really surprising in our brave new world of alt-facts, alt-science and alt-reality.

I think the story about the Tower of Babel is a good allegory to the global civilization we're seemingly trying to build. At least the people in Babel tried to co-operate.

Sure we are.  We both know no-one's going to a damn thing about it until it's too late.  It might be already.

[eyeball]

14 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Sure we are.  We both know no-one's going to a damn thing about it until it's too late.  It might be already.

We also know the reason for inaction rests squarely with right-wing conservatives.

The stupidest most belligerent fuckers in the known universe.

Edited May 28, 2019 by eyeball

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, eyeball said:

We also know the reason for inaction rests squarely with right-wing conservatives.

The stupidest most belligerent fuckers in the known universe.

No it doesn't.  It helps assuage guilt and fear to blame some group one doesn't like, but really, what is happening is the inevitable result of a growing population with advancing technology on a planet with finite resources and a dominant species that couldn't cooperate its way out of a wet paper bag.

Edited May 28, 2019 by bcsapper

[OftenWrong]

34 minutes ago, eyeball said:

We also know the reason for inaction rests squarely with right-wing conservatives.

The stupidest most belligerent fuckers in the known universe.

Just for that we're not going to help at all. Out of spite.

[eyeball]

25 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

No it doesn't.

AFAIC it does.

Quote

It helps assuage guilt and fear to blame some group one doesn't like,

It sets the record straight so future generations know who not to listen to.  I predict that climate change inaction will result in a long period of some grotesque sort of alt-left dominance for the same reason alt-right populism is on the rise now.  The pendulum will swing back and when it does I fear it will probably do so with a vengeance that makes Mao's cultural revolution look benign in comparison.

Quote

but really, what is happening is the ineviatable result of a growing population with advancing technology on a planet with finite resources and a dominant species that couldn't cooperate its way out of a wet paper bag.

No, what's happening is that right-wing conservatives have chosen to be obstinate, stubborn and backward thinking and mostly out of pure spite.  Certainly not because of science, evidence and knowledgeably informed expertise.

The future will be very dark, very bleak and very brutal.  Probably a lot like most of our first million years but without a planet for the taking.

Edited May 28, 2019 by eyeball

[OftenWrong]

17 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

No it doesn't.  It helps assuage guilt and fear to blame some group one doesn't like, but really, what is happening is the inevitable result of a growing population with advancing technology on a planet with finite resources and a dominant species that couldn't cooperate its way out of a wet paper bag.

By "dominant species" you mean the British, right?

I agree, they have ruined everything. Damn you James Watt, you were the antichrist.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, OftenWrong said:

By "dominant species" you mean the British, right?

I agree, they have ruined everything. Damn you James Watt, you were the antichrist.

A marker pen and a map.  Sorry about that!

[bush_cheney2004]

59 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Sure we are.  We both know no-one's going to a damn thing about it until it's too late.  It might be already.

 

There is no "too late"....there is simply what will be...que sera sera.

Human beings suffered and died far more from natural and man made disasters long before "climate change".

[Guest]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

There is no "too late"....there is simply what will be...que sera sera.

Human beings suffered and died far more from natural and man made disasters long before "climate change".

Sure, but we didn't think "hey, let's not bother with antibiotics and electricity.  We've been sick and cold before".

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Sure, but we didn't think "hey, let's not bother with antibiotics and electricity.  We've been sick and cold before".

 

...and both of those contribute to climate change.   You can't parse human development that way.

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

...and both of those contribute to climate change.   You can't parse human development that way.

 

It has nothing to do with parsing.  It has to do with lemmings.