The transgender insanity movement

[ironstone]

So if I have this right, a man or woman can suddenly declare themselves to be of the opposite on a whim, and now that person has actually biologically changed into that gender? Are you kidding me?

I'm a white guy so can I now magically become black or asian or whatever if I so choose??

I'm guessing this only works in woke Western democracies and not in the Muslim world.

[RedDog]

The lunatics are running the asylum.

We're not going to make it are we?

[Army Guy]

On 8/15/2021 at 5:39 PM, ironstone said:

So if I have this right, a man or woman can suddenly declare themselves to be of the opposite on a whim, and now that person has actually biologically changed into that gender? Are you kidding me?

I'm a white guy so can I now magically become black or asian or whatever if I so choose??

I'm guessing this only works in woke Western democracies and not in the Muslim world.

Last time i checked there was over 70 different types of genders, with new ones being made regularly, so what is stopping anyone from expanding on this list, what happens if i don't want to be a black women, or a white CIS 1/2 black lesbian, what happens if i want to be a fire truck or a army tank...i guess my question here is what are the prerequisites to making up a gender... 

[Queenmandy85]

Why is someone's gender anyone's business? We are all human beings. Be polite to one another.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Queenmandy85

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Why is someone's gender anyone's business? We are all human beings. Be polite to one another.

Sounds like conservatism to me.  This means that you will be called a lunatic.  Are above.

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Why is someone's gender anyone's business? We are all human beings. Be polite to one another.

Nothing about anyone is anyone else's business.  It's only what they do that matters.

[ironstone]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Why is someone's gender anyone's business? We are all human beings. Be polite to one another.

If you have an interaction with someone that is clearly a man then you'll refer to that person as sir. If you have an interaction with someone that is clearly female then you'll address her as such.

With the progressive mindset taking over now even these common interactions are a minefield.

Do all progressives use the preferred and ever increasing gender pronouns as they are told?

Hey is race as fluid as gender? Think Rachel Dolezal.

[Queenmandy85]

Maybe just call them by name.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Queenmandy85

[Argus]

On 8/13/2021 at 5:04 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

You should be aware that the need for Gender re-assignment surgery is not caused by mental illness. As the character in Transamerica said, “Don’t you find it odd that surgery can cure a mental disorder?”

The suicide rate among those who have gender reassignment surgery is 20 times that of comparable peers even in sympathetic, tolerant cultures like Sweden. So I would suggest the surgery does not solve their issues.

[Argus]

7 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Why is someone's gender anyone's business? We are all human beings. Be polite to one another.

A mother in the UK complained that her 12 year old daughter was embarrassed because she was required to undress for swim class with a 'trans' girl who stared at her and got erections. She was told that SHE had the problem, not the 'trans girl' and her erect girl penis.

I would say this was not just the trans 'girl's business.

A woman in prison looks up to see her new, assigned cell mate is a trans 'woman' who only decided they were a woman after their arrest for sexually assaulting women. She is then sexually assaulted by this 'woman'. 

I would say this was not just the trans woman's business.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

12 hours ago, Argus said:

 

A woman in prison looks up to see her new, assigned cell mate is a trans 'woman' who only decided they were a woman after their arrest for sexually assaulting women. She is then sexually assaulted by this 'woman'. 

I would say this was not just the trans woman's business.

Do you care about prison rape in general?  Or is it more an issue for arguing that trans people don't deserve consideration?

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Do you care about prison rape in general?  Or is it more an issue for arguing that trans people don't deserve consideration?

That's an odd argument to make.  You can't not put men with men in prison.  Unless you give them all a prison of their own.  And that would get expensive.

You can easily not put men with women in prison though.  Especially men who, while claiming to be  women, are in jail for assaulting women.

You wouldn't think that would too hard to figure out.  Unless, as you state, one doesn't care about prison rape in general.

That all being said, there must be a couple of old army barracks around somewhere that could be converted into  prisons for Trans convicts.  I'm assuming there just aren't that many of them.

Edited August 22, 2021 by bcsapper

[Michael Hardner]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

1. That's an odd argument to make.  You can't not put men with men in prison.  Unless you give them all a prison of their own.  And that would get expensive.

 

2. That all being said, there must be a couple of old army barracks around somewhere that could be converted into  prisons for Trans convicts.  I'm assuming there just aren't that many of them.

1. Couple of things here are strange to me. One is that you're jumping in on a question I had for Argus. Two is that you are projecting an argument that I wasn't making.

2. As long as we're going here, were you advocating for this before the broad sheet press discovered the trans prison issue?

 

I for one am sick of culture wars driving policy discussions. They're talking about things that could be just figured out without the outraged press and their acolytes getting involved.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Couple of things here are strange to me. One is that you're jumping in on a question I had for Argus. Two is that you are projecting an argument that I wasn't making.

2. As long as we're going here, were you advocating for this before the broad sheet press discovered the trans prison issue?

 

I for one am sick of culture wars driving policy discussions. They're talking about things that could be just figured out without the outraged press and their acolytes getting involved.

1) Do we not do that on here?  If I broke some unwritten rule, please let me know, because I had no idea.  I'm sure I've seen it done before, and done it myself, with no censure.

2) I wasn't advocating for anything before I knew about it. 

I for one am sick of people picking sides so deeply entrenched that what were previously deeply held views are tossed aside in favour of opposing those who don't fully agree with them on an issue.   That's how TERFs get hurt. 

 

 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Two is that you are projecting an argument that I wasn't making.

 

Sorry, I missed this.  I do get frustrated when people do that to me.

I assumed you were arguing that as there was no outrage over men raping men and women raping women in prison, one ought not to get too excited about men raping women in prison.  Or that if one did, it's due to an anti-Trans bias, rather than a genuine concern for women put in that position.

It just seemed to me that was something that was easily preventable.

Edited August 22, 2021 by bcsapper

[Michael Hardner]

36 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

 

I for one am sick of people picking sides so deeply entrenched that what were previously deeply held views are tossed aside in favour of opposing those who don't fully agree with them on an issue.   That's how TERFs get hurt. 

I don't get it.  I got two responses from you this time, so you must like posting to me.

Thanks.

If woekism is Trumpism's mirror twin, maybe we can try to just ignore it?

At this point we're posting about people seeing promise in change rooms and people calling people the n word.

 

[Guest]

28 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I don't get it.  I got two responses from you this time, so you must like posting to me.

Thanks.

If woekism is Trumpism's mirror twin, maybe we can try to just ignore it?

At this point we're posting about people seeing promise in change rooms and people calling people the n word.

 

I missed a point you made.  I didn't want you to think I was deliberately avoiding it.

I guess I could have edited my previous post.  It's early here, and I haven't had my breakfast.

I don't understand your statement there.  If something is worth arguing about, or making a point about, why would a description matter.  I don't think my views on this issue, or any other for that matter, are either Trumpist or woke.  (Unless we stick strictly to the Google definition, and nobody does that)

Some might be called progressive.  Others merely pragmatic. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by bcsapper

[Argus]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Do you care about prison rape in general?  Or is it more an issue for arguing that trans people don't deserve consideration?

Your question is utterly disingenuous. Yes, rape in prison is an issue, but it's insane to put a violent, male bodied person in a cell with a female bodied person. That you would try to excuse this by doing a 'whatabout' male prisons is just an indication of how extreme your views are about this issue, however much you pretend otherwise.

And yes, I have read your many replies on this issue to Kimmy on that other group.

So let's test your resolve. I have just decided I'm a woman. That seems to be all that it takes for you. So now I'm a transwoman and i expect you to treat my views with the proper reverence you would display towards that of a transwoman. You may no longer suggest I don't care about trans people's rights because you must treat me as one.

If you refuse then you are putting limits on who you will believe is a legitimate transgender person. Something you evidently do not believe anyone ought to be able to do.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

49 minutes ago, Argus said:

1. Your question is utterly disingenuous. Yes, rape in prison is an issue, but it's insane to put a violent, male bodied person in a cell with a female bodied person. That you would try to excuse this by doing a 'whatabout' male prisons is just an indication of how extreme your views are about this issue, however much you pretend otherwise.

2. And yes, I have read your many replies on this issue to Kimmy on that other group.

3. So let's test your resolve. I have just decided I'm a woman. That seems to be all that it takes for you. So now I'm a transwoman and i expect you to treat my views with the proper reverence you would display towards that of a transwoman. You may no longer suggest I don't care about trans people's rights because you must treat me as one.

4. If you refuse then you are putting limits on who you will believe is a legitimate transgender person. Something you evidently do not believe anyone ought to be able to do.

1. I'm not trying to excuse it, I'm pointing out that you are being led by the nose towards culture war issues and aren't interested in prison conditions otherwise.
2. Ok, cool.
3. Wait this is hypothetical right ?
4. What ?  I missed the point.  I believe in entrenching rights for trans folks, but I don't think I ever said that they get to trump any other opinions by virtue of their gender.  I have said that the 'public' for certain issues isn't straight men and we don't actually need to get involved - nobody is calling us in to weigh in on those discussions.

[Argus]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. I'm not trying to excuse it, I'm pointing out that you are being led by the nose towards culture war issues and aren't interested in prison conditions otherwise.

Who says I'm uninterested in prison conditions? Would you like me to lay out my own beliefs in how prisons should be operated? I've thought about it frequently. Do you think the violence in prisons is something that doesn't bother me? Violence against the helpless always bothers me! Injustice bothers me! 

And would it not be very simple, if you believe this is an issue that would allow people to be 'led by the nose' into anger to simply make sure that sort of thing doesn't happen? Why do you and the other trans supporters refuse to even contemplate the most elementary guidelines on how or why or when transgender claimants should be accepted at their word?

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. Wait this is hypothetical right ?

Are you allowed to ask that question without being a transphobe? I thought your position was that anyone who self-identified had to immediately be accepted as whatever they claim to be. No doubts or hesitation is acceptable!

Now do you accept that I'm a woman or not?

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

4. What ?  I missed the point.  I believe in entrenching rights for trans folks, but I don't think I ever said that they get to trump any other opinions by virtue of their gender.  I have said that the 'public' for certain issues isn't straight men and we don't actually need to get involved - nobody is calling us in to weigh in on those discussions.

All members of the public have a right to have input into the rules and laws of their own society. You cannot say that if a fundamental injustice does not effect me personally I should not care nor offer up my views on the subject.

And what's this referring to 'we' men business, you transphobe!

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

1. Who says I'm uninterested in prison conditions? Would you like me to lay out my own beliefs in how prisons should be operated? I've thought about it frequently. Do you think the violence in prisons is something that doesn't bother me? Violence against the helpless always bothers me! Injustice bothers me! 

2. And would it not be very simple, if you believe this is an issue that would allow people to be 'led by the nose' into anger to simply make sure that sort of thing doesn't happen?

3. Why do you and the other trans supporters refuse to even contemplate the most elementary guidelines on how or why or when transgender claimants should be accepted at their word?

4. Are you allowed to ask that question without being a transphobe?  

1. Yeah, because you have never posted on it as far as I can remember.
2. Right.  Like violence against trans women in men's prisons.  That's what started thie policy of transferring them.
3. What is a 'trans supporter' ?  Are you one ?  If not, then what is the opposite of a trans supporter ?  Did I say that they should be accepted on their word ?  I don't think I did.
4. Sure.

The rest of your post is a troll.

[RedDog]

I was filling out a survey for Edmonton Transit today and at the end they asked a couple questions. One of them was inquiring about my gender. Note the word “gender”, not lifestyle or hobby.

What was funny is that there were SIX to choose from but even better, it said to “check all that apply”. ? I’m not kidding.

We’re not going to make it are we?

[Argus]

23 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yeah, because you have never posted on it as far as I can remember.

It's not a subject which comes up on this forum.

23 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. Right.  Like violence against trans women in men's prisons.  That's what started thie policy of transferring them.

No it's not. The policy was changed because they are now considered legally women the moment they claim to be. That includes right after being arresting for sexually assaulting women.

23 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. What is a 'trans supporter' ? 

A trans supporter is someone who believes a man who claims to be a woman has to be instantly taken at 'her' word and considered 100% the same as other women, even if they have never sought or received any counselling or therapy, any medical intervention, any hormonal or surgical changes, or is contemplating them. 

They must be allowed into women's dressing rooms, prisons, showers and baths, sports and other activities, as well as shelters for abused women, rape crisis centres, etc, and anyone who expresses the slightest doubt is being transphobic.

Does the above accurately sum up your own views on the subject or would you care to point out areas of divergence?

23 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The rest of your post is a troll.

It is? Let me se, the rest of my post consisted of the following:

I thought your position was that anyone who self-identified had to immediately be accepted as whatever they claim to be. No doubts or hesitation is acceptable! Now do you accept that I'm a woman or not?

This is merely requesting clarification on your position.

and:

All members of the public have a right to have input into the rules and laws of their own society. You cannot say that if a fundamental injustice does not effect me personally I should not care nor offer up my views on the subject.

Which sums up why your attempt to suggest straight men had no legitimate cause to discuss this is wrong.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Argus

[Michael Hardner]

15 hours ago, Argus said:

1. A trans supporter is someone who believes a man who claims to be a woman has to be instantly taken at 'her' word and considered 100% the same as other women 

2. All members of the public have a right to have input into the rules and laws of their own society. You cannot say that if a fundamental injustice does not effect me personally I should not care nor offer up my views on the subject.

3. Which sums up why your attempt to suggest straight men had no legitimate cause to discuss this is wrong.

1.  I am not a trans supporter.
2. You are free to express whatever views you see fit.  If there are Lesbians discussing their badminton uniform policies, by all means grab the microphone and ask the most questions in that town hall, assuming you are following their rules.
3. I speak for myself and I don't feel like we (straight men) are called to comment on such things.  It's pretty clear that this topic is fodder for angertainment, which you haven't addressed in your post.

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  I am not a trans supporter.

I find this a confusing answer as the numerous posts you have made in this and other forums in support of trans rights have contained no exemptions or doubt on any aspect of what activists are demanding, as far as I can recall. 

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2. You are free to express whatever views you see fit. 

Gee, that's mighty white of you.

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

3. I speak for myself and I don't feel like we (straight men) are called to comment on such things.  It's pretty clear that this topic is fodder for angertainment, which you haven't addressed in your post.

Would you also suggest there are topics on legal rights, issues and societal belief which women should not comment on because the discussion should be exclusively male? I don't accept the woke belief that every identity group must remain within its own 'silo' and speak only to its own issues and problems. And if this is 'angertainment' it is only because of the fanaticism and extremism of the trans supporters, their determination to punish wrongthink, and their refusal to accept any compromise,

The rest of us are just ordinary people reacting to stupid ideas, unrealistic demands, and illogical positions.

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Argus