Green Energy - will Trudeau and Canada be the "last man standing"?

[bush_cheney2004]

12 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You don't seem to understand cause and effect.  You don't accept that it's largely because of policy that companies innovated.  It comes down to cost.  Oil companies receive many subsidies.  There have to be incentives to go green.  Only regulation/policy makes that happen.  The US federal government had progressive policy on emissions reductions until recently.  It's not worth discussing.  Keep calling black white if it makes you feel better.

 

I do feel better....Canada is once again a deadbeat (this time on emissions reductions), despite all the political window dressing to the contrary.

 

[Centerpiece]

28 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You don't seem to understand cause and effect.  You don't accept that it's largely because of policy that companies innovated.  It comes down to cost.  Oil companies receive many subsidies.  There have to be incentives to go green.  Only regulation/policy makes that happen.  The US federal government had progressive policy on emissions reductions until recently.  It's not worth discussing.  Keep calling black white if it makes you feel better.

Give us a break, for heaven's sake! As per this article and many like it - literally trillions of dollars have been invested in "Green Energy". To what end? The shrill alarmists - predicting Armageddon at every turn - say we have to do more! For what? Get a grip man. Give yourself a shake! Any REAL catastrophe facing the world (if it ever came) would be met well before its damage is done - with the full commitment of the scientific community - REAL scientists - and REAL results.   

[WestCanMan]

On 9/28/2018 at 3:35 PM, Zeitgeist said:

It’s a scary twist on the meaning of retrograde.  I promise you that the return to coal, especially from big countries like China and the US, will literally destroy air and water quality, raise temperatures, and push the planet over the safe limit for human habitation.  You can watch all the YouTube conspiracy videos that you want about evil globalists that contradict this, but science is science.  If global annual average temperatures rise by about 4 degrees, we’re fucked.  All the tax cuts in the world won’t save you.  

The earth has had higher CO2 levels before without the rise in temperature that you're talking about.

 

[Guest]

On 9/30/2018 at 4:42 PM, Centerpiece said:

Give us a break, for heaven's sake! As per this article and many like it - literally trillions of dollars have been invested in "Green Energy". To what end? The shrill alarmists - predicting Armageddon at every turn - say we have to do more! For what? Get a grip man. Give yourself a shake! Any REAL catastrophe facing the world (if it ever came) would be met well before its damage is done - with the full commitment of the scientific community - REAL scientists - and REAL results.   

I disagree.  Our species is like a smoker assessing the evidence that smoking causes lung cancer.  He or she enjoys smoking so much that they postpone doing the really hard thing, quitting, until the tumor is showing up on the x-ray.  The scientists know, but can do nothing about it.  Everyone else is waiting for the x-ray, but by then it will be too late.  There is no reason we must survive.

Edited October 2, 2018 by bcsapper

[Wilber]

2 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

Give us a break, for heaven's sake! As per this article and many like it - literally trillions of dollars have been invested in "Green Energy". To what end? The shrill alarmists - predicting Armageddon at every turn - say we have to do more! For what? Get a grip man. Give yourself a shake! Any REAL catastrophe facing the world (if it ever came) would be met well before its damage is done - with the full commitment of the scientific community - REAL scientists - and REAL results.   

Most of the scientific community is trying to warn you but you refuse do listen. Just like sapper's smoker. The only difference between us an other species is that we may be the first to cause its own extinction.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Wilber

[Wilber]

In the original Cosmos series, Sagan presented the question whether every developing species in the universe had to go through a stage of development that resulted in either moving forward or exterminating itself. He thought the odds of survival were probably no better than 50/50. Back in 1980 he was thinking of nuclear extinction, but environmental destruction is probably a more likely cause.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Wilber

[Argus]

15 hours ago, Wilber said:

Most of the scientific community is trying to warn you but you refuse do listen. Just like sapper's smoker. The only difference between us an other species is that we may be the first to cause its own extinction.

There is ZERO chance of that happening due to global warming.

And the issue you persistently ignore is there's nothing we can do about global warming anyway. Beggar yourself. Sell all your possessions and live in a cave if you like. It won't make a smidge of difference.

[Wilber]

12 minutes ago, Argus said:

There is ZERO chance of that happening due to global warming.

And the issue you persistently ignore is there's nothing we can do about global warming anyway. Beggar yourself. Sell all your possessions and live in a cave if you like. It won't make a smidge of difference.

Guess you're the expert. Scientists don't know shit.

[Centerpiece]

21 minutes ago, Wilber said:

Guess you're the expert. Scientists don't know shit.

They know what they are paid to know. Tons of funding to look for human-induced global warming. By golly, when you pay someone to look for something, chances are they will find it! Give them grants to prove that natural warming dwarfs CO2 - and dollars to donuts - they'll produce study after study that "proves" it. The current phase of Climate Change has seen the world warming for over 150 years with its usual sawtooth like ups and downs. Sure we've added a teensy bit with our land management and CO2 - but it's downright embarrassing - if not depressing - to see all the lunkheads running around shouting "Climate Change is Real!" - ignorant of how the Climate System works. Send every human (and cows with their farts) to outer space - and the world will still be warming (or cooling) - on its own schedule. You're just not as important as you think you are.

Edited October 1, 2018 by Centerpiece

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

Send every human (and cows with their farts) to outer space - and the world will still be warming (or cooling) - on its own schedule. You're just not as important as you think you are.

There is the world's schedule and then there's our's which is far far faster and more important.  The rate of change is what's at issue.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Wilber said:

Guess you're the expert. Scientists don't know shit.

Didn't we already establish that scientists do know shit?  The problem is exactly that it is only the scientists who know shit.

Nobody else really gives a shit.  That's the issue.  Scientists have been unable to convince anyone else, including all the breast beating, virtue signalling politicians and environmentalists who showed up at Kyoto, Copenhagen, Paris, etc., that windmills, solar panels and the occasional carbon tax are not going to do the trick.

Germany, who could easily make the podium in any environmental smugness Olympics, are currently planning to chop down a forest to make way for an open cast coal mine.  That should tell you how seriously the policy makers take the problem.

Edited October 2, 2018 by bcsapper

[Hates politicians]

On 9/28/2018 at 2:45 PM, taxme said:

Let me see if I have this right. Isn't CO2 suppose to be good for the environment? Isn't that how and why the earth is so green looking because of all that CO2 in the air? The more carbon in the air the more trees will grow. Right? 

How dare you post a truthful statement, lol

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Hates politicians said:

How dare you post a truthful statement, lol

See response, re: water.

[Hates politicians]

5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

See response, re: water.

Are you thirsty? You want me to get you a drink of water?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Hates politicians said:

Are you thirsty? You want me to get you a drink of water?

Actually, yeah.  I'd like to see that.  Keep me apprised as to your progress.

[taxme]

14 hours ago, Hates politicians said:

How dare you post a truthful statement, lol

Will greenhouse gases work for you better? Some peoples kids. 

 

14 hours ago, bcsapper said:

Actually, yeah.  I'd like to see that.  Keep me apprised as to your progress.

I will have my glass of water on the rocks with a squeeze of lemon, servant. Bring it too me while I am swimming in my pool of water and then you can go wash all the windows. Rush it, will you.  

[Wilber]

16 hours ago, Hates politicians said:

How dare you post a truthful statement, lol

Not if you keep cutting down all the trees. We are releasing carbon that grew trees hundreds of millions of years ago. Like sapper said, we also need water to survive but too much of it and you drown.

[Centerpiece]

Now you can add Manitoba to the list of Provinces rejecting the Trudeau Climate Plan....

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/politics/manitoba-backs-out-of-planned-carbon-tax-says-ottawa-not-respecting-provinces-1.4120046

Edited October 4, 2018 by Centerpiece

[Zeitgeist]

Manitoba and Ontario will have an impact, but just wait for China’s 20 plus new cities of a million plus each to put their coal plants online as they return to coal generation.  Emissions know no boundaries.  

[Centerpiece]

59 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Manitoba and Ontario will have an impact, but just wait for China’s 20 plus new cities of a million plus each to put their coal plants online as they return to coal generation.  Emissions know no boundaries.  

Given that, wouldn't it make more sense to give them as much of our  oil or gas as possible - to at least reduce the impact of their coal? Oh, I forgot - we can't get it to them. Why eco-nuts continue to beat up on Canada is either the sheer lunacy of zeolots - or a conspiracy by US interests to use activists as pawns to keep our oil in the ground so as not to compete with American interests. Could be both.

[Zeitgeist]

12 hours ago, Centerpiece said:

Given that, wouldn't it make more sense to give them as much of our  oil or gas as possible - to at least reduce the impact of their coal? Oh, I forgot - we can't get it to them. Why eco-nuts continue to beat up on Canada is either the sheer lunacy of zeolots - or a conspiracy by US interests to use activists as pawns to keep our oil in the ground so as not to compete with American interests. Could be both.

It's better for the environment to ship our oil to domestic markets through pipelines than it is to ship it thousands of miles in trains, trucks, and oil tankers.  Anyway, American investors in the oil sands have the same interest in pumping that oil as Canadian or any other investors.