Saudi Arabia expells Canadian ambassador

[Dougie93]

Agreed, it is all inclusive to the Cultural Marxist movement in the West, and it's not even to any purpose in the Arabian peninsula,  it's simply virtue signalling for the purposes of pandering to the NDP base which the Liberals need to stick with Trudeau in order to box the Conservatives out, because if the NDP is down and out the CPC can't win.

As to practical attempts to intervene in the affairs of the House of Saud?  Sheer folly, will simply backfire many times over.

What Trudeau is doing here, is in essence British Imperialism, when the Empire has been withdrawn from East of Suez,  since 1968.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Dougie93

[eyeball]

16 minutes ago, Saudi Monitor said:

 Liberating muslim females from the evil Muslim men, has been a usefull tool for colonialism in the Muslim world in the past and continues to this day.

Well speaking for myself I'm not in the least bit interested in colonizing you.

Quote

And even if KSA didn't live up to the standards in the west as it relates to these issues, its citizens above all want you to mind your own business, regardless of whether they like or don't like something about their government.

Lots of ordinary people over here would love nothing more than if our government minded its own business and stayed the hell away from the KSA too.  The sooner it does the sooner your people can do more about the things they don't like about their government.

[Dougie93]

Furthermore,  you cannot influence the likes of Ibn Saud by sending the likes of Justin Trudeau.

If the House of Windsor is make any headway in terms of appeals to the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques, we must send a proper emissary to represent Her Majesty.

HRH The Prince of Wales would be warranted at this level of diplomacy, sovereign to sovereign

Edited January 24, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

And by the way, this is just another case of Canada being Victorian forever, because what the Liberals are acting out here, is the classic Victorian era imperialist missionary impulse.

I mean, honestly,  if it was the Ewoks on Endor, they would chop Liberals heads off and roast them on a spit, the missionary impulse is sure to backfire every time, but the Victorians will never learn.

And look who they are inciting here; India, China, Arabia, they're doing the rounds, provoking the former Imperial possessions one at a time.

So vacuous are the Liberals,  they are not even realizing that all these people see is "British", they don't see "Canada", nobody makes that distinction.

There is only the Americans, and the British, the British Crown in North America is the British.

So all they see is the British Crown, and what is it doing?

Kidnapping young women to be taken away to Britain,  to be scandalized at the hands of said brutish North German hooligans.

Edited January 24, 2019 by Dougie93

[Argus]

9 hours ago, Saudi Monitor said:

 Liberating Muslim females from the evil Muslim men, has been a usefull tool for colonialism in the Muslim world in the past and continues to this day.

Cite? Why would colonial western governments give a damn about liberating Muslim women? Their own women couldn't vote at the time anyway.

Maybe you're thinking about when Europeans and Americans went about liberating WESTERN women who had been taken as slaves by Muslims?

9 hours ago, Saudi Monitor said:

Under its guise, western Ideas and values under the guise of rights for women has been instituted. It has never been about a genuine concern for Muslim females, but rather just using another angle to breakdown the hindrance against the Muslim resistance to western secular and liberal values and morality. 

You mean a resistance to civilization? Maybe some of us really don't think much of your barbarous laws for chopping bits and pieces off people, including their heads, for minor offenses. Not to mention torture and whipping and the whole idea of wrapping women in bedsheets because their men are unable to handle what a woman looks like.

 

[Saudi Monitor]

Spare me you're santamonious attitude stereotypes, which is self-serving while it is also convenient to larger neo-imperalistic agendas, covering up those impulses under a false veneer of "humanitarian concerns". 

In a nuttshell, what you are saying is repeating things which bear no relationship to anything relevant. It doesn't matter what you have heard and even less, what you prefer to believe and repeat just to advance some ulterior agenda. The moral of the story is, most westerners are ignorant about the status of women in KSA as they are about the country in general. 

Go read the typical reaction from a Westerner visiting KSA. Almost their first comment is that KSA is nothing like the picture that is beamed about the country "back home".

Truth to be told, Trudeau would have been a very good candidate to pick up mantle of change. Regrettably but predictably, Trudeau ultimately became little more than a hubris of virtue signaling and a mouthpiece for the special interest groups which have hijacked Canadian domsetic and foreign policy. Which is an answer that I submit is not good for Canada. 

Regarding, the western civilization, despite it has achieved  great heights, it is a civilization that in its vitality and energy, also ironically shows in much greater focus the brutality and violent side of human nature, not to even speak about the social degeneration which is unfolding there.

Furthermore, the left's prejudices against KSA arises from the left's larger hostility to religion and the larger set of social agendas that accompany that overt hostility (peoplekind xD). On the right, you have folks who are still carrying anti-Islamic prejudices.

Both of them see the hijab as a symbol of submission and inferiority of women, ironically many of the women who began wearing the veil, saw it as a revolutionary symbol rejecting "Westernization" while fighting for women's equality! 

Moreover,  some of the most past influential Saudi intellectuals posited  that true women's rights were not advanced in the West, were women were degenerated and exploited as sexual objects. Instead, they argued, that women could reach their full potential under an Islamic system by wearing the Hijab and not serving as sexual objects, instead allowed to distinguish themselves fully as scientists, professionals, or as homemakers if they so chose. These influential intellectuals however, were strong proponents of women's education and their participation in the political, economic and social arena.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Saudi Monitor

[Dougie93]

Agreed, but we limited government classically liberal conservatives are simply interested in;

a) Arab self government in Arabia.

b) Defend and uphold the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques as the moderating and stabilizing influence.

c) Avoid destabilizing that to no good purpose to include driving you towards Beijing and Moscow, or worst case scenario you are overthrown by bandits who incite a war with us.

d) Maintain cordial relations between our Queen and Crown Prince and your King and Crown Prince, for the purposes of diplomacy, trade, collective security, and associated peaceful coexistence.

As to the commies? 

We're on that wall all day everyday, fighting them back by any and all means consistent with British Westminster Parliamentary Supremacy, for which HM defends the right.

[eyeball]

24 minutes ago, Saudi Monitor said:

Furthermore, the left's prejudices against KSA arises from the left's larger hostility to religion and the larger set of social agendas that accompany that overt hostility (peoplekind xD).

It s sounds like you put too much stock in the usual associations and characterizations people like to make about progressives.  Much of our prejudice reflects our disgust for our right-wing's insistence that we have no choice but to crawl into bed and commit despicable acts with your kingdom.

Quote

On the right, you have folks who are still carrying anti-Islamic prejudices.

You mean in addition to their anti-progressive prejudices. Like conservatives everywhere they have many of the same sort of suspicions and issues your kingdom has with - equal rights, sexuality, human rights amongst other things progressives have sadly and unadvisedly taken too much for granted.  Conservatism is like rust, it never sleeps.

[Saudi Monitor]

 Canadians need to first get their own house in order. They have no standing to talk about human rights to anyone. As for human rights violation, your southern neighbor would win that trophy. Regardless, colonizers used to call native people "Savages" in order to justify taking their land and promote their ideology and values, In modern term , "Human Right" have largely replaced that term.

Canadians should deal with the challenges they face in their own society,  ranging from homelessness, to the treatment of the Indigenous people as second-class citizens, legalizing sex with animals, and the brutal policy of infringing upon the rights of children and their parents by permitting underage kids to go under the knife for gender realignment and so forth.

However, how you manage your affairs isn't the business of anyone outside your own realm, as long as you respect others national rights and not try to speak for people who have given you no mandate or right to do so.
 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Saudi Monitor

[Army Guy]

15 hours ago, Saudi Monitor said:

Spare me you're santamonious attitude stereotypes, which is self-serving while it is also convenient to larger neo-imperalistic agendas, covering up those impulses under a false veneer of "humanitarian concerns". 

In a nuttshell, what you are saying is repeating things which bear no relationship to anything relevant. It doesn't matter what you have heard and even less, what you prefer to believe and repeat just to advance some ulterior agenda. The moral of the story is, most westerners are ignorant about the status of women in KSA as they are about the country in general. 

Go read the typical reaction from a Westerner visiting KSA. Almost their first comment is that KSA is nothing like the picture that is beamed about the country "back home".

Truth to be told, Trudeau would have been a very good candidate to pick up mantle of change. Regrettably but predictably, Trudeau ultimately became little more than a hubris of virtue signaling and a mouthpiece for the special interest groups which have hijacked Canadian domsetic and foreign policy. Which is an answer that I submit is not good for Canada. 

Regarding, the western civilization, despite it has achieved  great heights, it is a civilization that in its vitality and energy, also ironically shows in much greater focus the brutality and violent side of human nature, not to even speak about the social degeneration which is unfolding there.

Furthermore, the left's prejudices against KSA arises from the left's larger hostility to religion and the larger set of social agendas that accompany that overt hostility (peoplekind xD). On the right, you have folks who are still carrying anti-Islamic prejudices.

Both of them see the hijab as a symbol of submission and inferiority of women, ironically many of the women who began wearing the veil, saw it as a revolutionary symbol rejecting "Westernization" while fighting for women's equality! 

Moreover,  some of the most past influential Saudi intellectuals posited  that true women's rights were not advanced in the West, were women were degenerated and exploited as sexual objects. Instead, they argued, that women could reach their full potential under an Islamic system by wearing the Hijab and not serving as sexual objects, instead allowed to distinguish themselves fully as scientists, professionals, or as homemakers if they so chose. These influential intellectuals however, were strong proponents of women's education and their participation in the political, economic and social arena.

I wish you would also return the favor of sparing us your sanctimonious attitudes, and stereotypes, your post is littered with examples, that are out right lies, or bullshit fabricated to support someone's propaganda, yours or perhaps someone's else. 

Moral of the story is most westerns don't really care about the KSA, except for the fact your country is one of the friendlier Islamic nations on the planet, not the only one but one of, so nothing special there, Canada as a nation does not have a whole lot of business with the KSA, nothing of any real importance, some oil a few other things .  Nothing on the scale of say the USA. Same could be said about Europe...So as one of Islam's shining stars your nation is often held to a higher standard not only by the west but the world...being popular is sometimes a bitch.

The only thing I will agree with in your post, is your comments on our current PM, of course I would have added a few more descriptive words, but right on point.But I also wonder could you have posted those same comments in a local KSA forum about your king. 

Regarding the Islamic world, it as well has achieve many great things, it still does to a certain extent building city marvels out of the desert, impressive....but how many Islamic nations can claim the same things...Not many, I could count them on one hand....and yet how many Islamic nations have used their power and wealth to wage war, or rule with an iron fist...

How many Muslim's have turned into barbarians, ruling through sheer terror, torture,  how many of your Muslim brothers are at war with your nation today...ISIS is not a western gang of thugs, it traces it's roots back to the Islamic world....Yes we all have our problems , major problems on both sides. I think we can all agree on that. 

Our left has done nothing except bent over back wards for the Muslim people, to the point it has invited back it's known ISIS terrorist to be reeducated, and give poetry classes to...instead of killing them where the stand. and on the right, there is a large group still carrying anti Islamic prejudices....but you forget about all the Muslims that carry much larger prejudices against all infidels, or westerns, because it is convenient, and it does not support your post, or the propaganda you listen to..….what is it they say hate only breeds more hate....

 

 

[Army Guy]

5 hours ago, Saudi Monitor said:

 Canadians need to first get their own house in order. They have no standing to talk about human rights to anyone. As for human rights violation, your southern neighbor would win that trophy. Regardless, colonizers used to call native people "Savages" in order to justify taking their land and promote their ideology and values, In modern term , "Human Right" have largely replaced that term.

Canadians should deal with the challenges they face in their own society,  ranging from homelessness, to the treatment of the Indigenous people as second-class citizens, legalizing sex with animals, and the brutal policy of infringing upon the rights of children and their parents by permitting underage kids to go under the knife for gender realignment and so forth.

However, how you manage your affairs isn't the business of anyone outside your own realm, as long as you respect others national rights and not try to speak for people who have given you no mandate or right to do so.
 

Your right every nation has a dark past, including yours. Stop doing the Canadian thing and point fingers or make excuses........take ownership.... It is history and can not be changed....savages, infidels who cares right it all serves the same purpose to make killing easier right....

Once again this is where our cultures differ, perhaps if you'd like we could look at what is or was acceptable in the Islamic world, female gentile mutilation, women do not deserve to feel pleasure, women can not go outside without an escort, up until recently could not drive, in some cases they are treated as property and have no rights at all, can be killed to protect the honor of the family without recourse, removing hands for stealing, killing your wife over adultery, with or with out proof, be stoned to death in public for various crimes, be beaten with whips for showing a small piece of ankle...i'll stop I think you get the point....I'll make one more, Why does the west have so many Muslim immigrants if it is such a treat to live in the Islamic world...

If you , your nation or your religion is not up for some criticism , one must ask why not ? one can not improve upon something with out some outside advise, unless we are beneath you, and do not deserve to be heard....and if that is the case, why are you here on a Canadian forum to state your case.

[Argus]

18 hours ago, Saudi Monitor said:

Spare me you're santamonious attitude stereotypes, which is self-serving while it is also convenient to larger neo-imperalistic agendas, covering up those impulses under a false veneer of "humanitarian concerns". 

I don't have any imperialistic agendas. As far as I'm concerned Saudi Arabia is a shithole in the desert. And as soon as the era of fossil fuels is done it will return to being a land of camel riding desert nomads. The Saudis have no ability to build or maintain anything in their country, let alone develop anything new. As soon as you can no longer pay all the westerners and Indians and Filipinos to do all the work your society will collapse into anarchy and chaos.

And the sooner that happens the better. Saudi Arabia is responsible for most of the world's terrorism. Virtually every Islamic terrorist group follows the Saudis Wahhabi version of Islam, which the kingdom has spent tens of billions of dollars propagating around the world.

Quote

.Go read the typical reaction from a Westerner visiting KSA. Almost their first comment is that KSA is nothing like the picture that is beamed about the country "back home".

I've known people who have been there. It's exactly like the picture beamed back home. Except worse. People here don't realize there are actually slums in Saudi Arabia.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Argus

[Saudi Monitor]

Many Canadian women are victims of violence in their own society. This prompted a brave Canadian women Shelley Saywell to produce a film on this subject. This is what i mean, when i say Canadians need to first get their own house in order. 

SHE’S DOCUMENTED VIOLENCE ALL OVER THE WORLD, BUT DOMESTIC ABUSE IN CANADA SHOCKED HER

 

Quote

 

I’ve spent almost three decades making films on human rights and conflict, largely focused on violence against women. …. So many places where women suffer unimaginably from conflict and violence.   

I always thought of Canada and home as a safe haven. But that idea was shattered when I realized that for thousands of women in our own country, home is the place where most violence occurs. Home for some women is a place of personalized terrorism.

Violence against women has become a dinner party topic. Anecdotally, it feels like an epidemic as more and more women speak out, telling the personal stories they have long kept hidden.

The numbers are staggering. Domestic violence causes nine times the number of deaths as civil wars, globally. One in three women have experienced violence in their lifetime. In Canada, in the same ten year period, three times more women were killed by their partners than all our troops killed in Afghanistan.

Every six days, a Canadian woman dies this way.

What is perhaps more shocking, in a country like ours, is that we have no national strategy to prevent violence against women. Aboriginal women have been murdered or gone missing at unimaginable rates. And women of every background and economic strata suffer alone, ashamed to speak out, terrified to leave. 

 

 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/firsthand/blog/shelly-saywell-the-war-at-home

Edited January 29, 2019 by Saudi Monitor

[turningrite]

On 1/25/2019 at 6:18 AM, Saudi Monitor said:

 Canadians need to first get their own house in order. They have no standing to talk about human rights to anyone. As for human rights violation, your southern neighbor would win that trophy. Regardless, colonizers used to call native people "Savages" in order to justify taking their land and promote their ideology and values, In modern term , "Human Right" have largely replaced that term.

Canadians should deal with the challenges they face in their own society,  ranging from homelessness, to the treatment of the Indigenous people as second-class citizens, legalizing sex with animals, and the brutal policy of infringing upon the rights of children and their parents by permitting underage kids to go under the knife for gender realignment and so forth.

However, how you manage your affairs isn't the business of anyone outside your own realm, as long as you respect others national rights and not try to speak for people who have given you no mandate or right to do so.
 

What a pile of hokum! Your point is an example of an intellectual fallacy known as presentism. Yes, indigenous peoples throughout the Western Hemisphere and in Australia and NZ were oppressed by the European colonizers. And the Arabs maintained a booming slave trade for centuries. And Africans participated with Arabs and Europeans in the slave trade. And Asians marginalized and forcibly assimilated their minority populations. Peoples everywhere have interminably warred against each other and conquerors have occupied whatever lands they've been able to take. This is pretty much the history of mankind.

We in Canada, and in the West in general, face major challenges to be sure, most of which are acknowledged even if not always effectively or quickly addressed. But those from brutal places that in the present refuse to acknowledge or address the human rights violations and continuing oppression in their own societies are in no position to castigate others and tell them to shut up.

[Saudi Monitor]

SNC-Lavalin’s $1.24-billion writedown an example of the cost of Ottawa’s foreign policy

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-snc-lavalins-124-billion-writedown-latest-sign-of-soured-canadian/

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2019 by Saudi Monitor

[turningrite]

4 minutes ago, Saudi Monitor said:

SNC-Lavalin’s $1.24-billion writedown an example of the cost of Ottawa’s foreign policy

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-snc-lavalins-124-billion-writedown-latest-sign-of-soured-canadian/

 

The article you reference is behind the G&M's paywall, so if you want to reference it please describe the aspects most applicable to any point(s) you are trying to make. Otherwise, your post is nothing more than online wallpaper to most readers on here as I presume most don't pay for a G&M subscription.

[Argus]

51 minutes ago, Saudi Monitor said:

Many Canadian women are victims of violence in their own society. 

At least that is illegal in Canada. Unlike in Saudi Arabia. Women have so few rights there, and expect so few, that a poll once taken suggested women in Saudi Arabia expected to be beaten by their husbands if they did something like, oh, leave the house without permission, or make a medical appointment for themselves without permission.

It is not against the law to either beat or rape your wife in Saudi Arabia. Both are allowable under Islam.

[Argus]

38 minutes ago, Saudi Monitor said:

SNC-Lavalin’s $1.24-billion writedown an example of the cost of Ottawa’s foreign policy

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-snc-lavalins-124-billion-writedown-latest-sign-of-soured-canadian/

 

Think we care? It's a Quebec company anyway. Think they care? They're the ones who don't want any more Muslims and want rules against face coverings.

[Argus]

31 minutes ago, turningrite said:

The article you reference is behind the G&M's paywall, so if you want to reference it please describe the aspects most applicable to any point(s) you are trying to make. Otherwise, your post is nothing more than online wallpaper to most readers on here as I presume most don't pay for a G&M subscription.

I presume he's referring to them being turned down and unable to apply for jobs in Saudi Arabia because their boy prince through a hissy fit over a tweet about the release of a political prisoner.

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

At least that is illegal in Canada. Unlike in Saudi Arabia. Women have so few rights there, and expect so few, that a poll once taken suggested women in Saudi Arabia expected to be beaten by their husbands if they did something like, oh, leave the house without permission, or make a medical appointment for themselves without permission.

It is not against the law to either beat or rape your wife in Saudi Arabia. Both are allowable under Islam.

Beating or raping your wife is also NOT applauded by the Canadian community.

[GostHacked]

3 hours ago, Goddess said:

Beating or raping your wife is also NOT applauded by the Canadian community.

However when it comes to Saudi Arabia we tend to turn a blind eye to how their women are treated. 

[Goddess]

17 hours ago, GostHacked said:

However when it comes to Saudi Arabia we tend to turn a blind eye to how their women are treated. 

Well, the new Saudi guy on here has assured us that they are treated better than Western women, so......

[turningrite]

3 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Well, the new Saudi guy on here has assured us that they are treated better than Western women, so......

I recall talking about this several years ago with a well-educated woman who'd fled the Islamic Revolution in Iran. When I asked her about the notion that Muslim women prefer the status accorded them under strict Islamic rule she just laughed.

In a historical sense, though, there is a historical example that perhaps explains why women are content with social and constraints that seem antithetical to modern Western norms. Peter the Great's abolition of the 'terem' in 18th century Russia, an institution that had for centuries physically and socially isolated mainly upper class and respectable women from participating in public life, was opposed by many of the very women whose freedom the Tsar was promoting. Retaining a form of what was essentially a protected even if inferior status was more important to many of these women, who preferred the security of the status quo over the risk of change, the apparent benefits of which were not clear to them.

[Saudi Monitor]

On 1/29/2019 at 5:04 PM, turningrite said:

What a pile of hokum! Your point is an example of an intellectual fallacy known as presentism. Yes, indigenous peoples throughout the Western Hemisphere and in Australia and NZ were oppressed by the European colonizers. And the Arabs maintained a booming slave trade for centuries. And Africans participated with Arabs and Europeans in the slave trade. And Asians marginalized and forcibly assimilated their minority populations. Peoples everywhere have interminably warred against each other and conquerors have occupied whatever lands they've been able to take. This is pretty much the history of mankind.

We in Canada, and in the West in general, face major challenges to be sure, most of which are acknowledged even if not always effectively or quickly addressed. But those from brutal places that in the present refuse to acknowledge or address the human rights violations and continuing oppression in their own societies are in no position to castigate others and tell them to shut up.

Those who complain about criticisms are in fact those with insecurities. Well, here's a wake up call -- you aren't nor have you ever been "superior" and neither do you have anything to stand on to be lecturing others with you're propaganda.

There are in fact millions Saudis and other people across the world who live more fulfilling lives than your average Canadian/Westerner. There are in fact many Saudis and other people across the world that can proclaim with certainty that their lives are "better" than your average Canadian/Westerner. 

In other words, Keep throwing stone in a glass house and flattering yourself. Don't expect people to not call on your'e imperialist nonsense, hypocrisy and propaganda. And if you think that only Canadians/Westerners have the right to judge others, then perhaps you should attempt actually living in the world instead of that delusional bubble you call reality. And the notion that other cultures and civilization must follow whatever becomes the norm in Canada/west. is a form of imperialism, indeed, usually utilized under the guise of "human right" and such.

There are plenty of people who visit KSA and the most common (in fact, the almost universal reaction) you hear from them is that KSA isn't anything like it is portrayed in the West.

My visit to Saudi Arabia changed all my perceptions

Quote

 

Saudi Arabia is a nation of immense beauty. From the mountainous Asir region in the southwest to the Diriyah historical sites, the Formula E racing championship and concerts,

I met people of great warmth and generosity. While I may have come believing it was a closed country wanting to turn its back on the rest of the world, the opposite was true in everyone we met. From routine interactions with ordinary people to bigger events, I found in the Saudi people a fierce pride of place in their home country.

In my travels there, in cities and rural outposts, I saw a people and country that want the world to feel welcome to visit. The Kingdom is home to the holiest sites in Islam, and as such it has a long history of visitors from across the continents.

Located along the crossroads of Europe, Asia and Africa, in ancient times it drew people trading between the Mediterranean and the Indian Ocean. Spices from these trade routes blended into the cuisine. At every stop I was offered coffee or tea with dates or sweets. Meals meant tables of food with exotic scents and flavors that lingered delightfully on the palate long after the meal was over.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2019 by Saudi Monitor

[GostHacked]

On 1/25/2019 at 6:18 AM, Saudi Monitor said:

 Canadians need to first get their own house in order. They have no standing to talk about human rights to anyone.

I'd love to start that by cutting ALL ties with Saudi Arabia,  kicking out all their diplomats and closing their facilities and embassies in Canada.

Edited January 30, 2019 by GostHacked