Faisal Hussain - the evolving story

[dialamah]

It took over 24 hours for us to even learn the name of the Fredericton shooter, and still nothing about his motives; we had more info from police 'sources' about Hussain mere hours after the event. 

So where is the thread speculating about the Fredericton shooter's motives, building the conspiracy case that this was a terror attack and "authorities/media" are hiding that info?   

Edited August 11, 2018 by dialamah

[OftenWrong]

If Faisal Hussain did it because he loves ISIS, which is apparent by the information we have, then he symbolizes what the Islamists want to achieve in Canada- attack the infidels (that's us...) and take over. Finally, implementation of Sharia law. There is no appeasement that could stop them, but they must be stopped. Stopped... at all costs. And that means hammer them down.

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

If Faisal Hussain did it because he loves ISIS, which is apparent by the information we have, then he symbolizes what the Islamists want to achieve in Canada- attack the infidels (that's us...) and take over. Finally, implementation of Sharia law. There is no appeasement that could stop them, but they must be stopped. Stopped... at all costs. And that means hammer them down.

You could say the same thing about us and our love of dictators. They must be propped up at all costs. And one cost is...obvious.

Edited August 11, 2018 by eyeball

[Centerpiece]

23 hours ago, dialamah said:

It took over 24 hours for us to even learn the name of the Fredericton shooter, and still nothing about his motives; we had more info from police 'sources' about Hussain mere hours after the event. 

So where is the thread speculating about the Fredericton shooter's motives, building the conspiracy case that this was a terror attack and "authorities/media" are hiding that info?   

Don't need one. Lots of information coming out - very transparent......and keep in mind - this perpetrator was actually shot by the police but it hasn't slowed down the information. Still waiting on more about Faisal......

Link: https://nationalpost.com/news/newsalert-matthew-vincent-raymond-48-charged-in-fredericton-shooting-2?video_autoplay=true

[dialamah]

31 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

Don't need one. Lots of information coming out - very transparent......and keep in mind - this perpetrator was actually shot by the police but it hasn't slowed down the information. Still waiting on more about Faisal......

Link: https://nationalpost.com/news/newsalert-matthew-vincent-raymond-48-charged-in-fredericton-shooting-2?video_autoplay=true

What other information are you waiting for about Faisal?   Both cases have had event descriptions, perpetrators names and victim names released.  Both cases have had comments by friends or family, and both cases have had descriptions of the shooters behavior prior to the shooting.  By this point in the story, Faisal had had information about his mental health history from the last 10 years published, as well as information about his family - much more info than we've had about Raymond so far.  We haven't had an official motive for either shooter yet.  Since Raymond is still alive, we're more likely to know his motive before we know Hussain's.

The dissemination of information looks pretty identical so far.  Unless of course you are waiting for authorities to confirm what you have already decided is true - the Hussain shooting was terror related.  

Edited August 12, 2018 by dialamah

[Argus]

On 8/11/2018 at 11:20 AM, dialamah said:

It took over 24 hours for us to even learn the name of the Fredericton shooter, and still nothing about his motives; we had more info from police 'sources' about Hussain mere hours after the event. 

He's in hospital with gunshot wounds and hasn't been questioned, and the motives are likely known. This does not strike me as a random shooting, though I could be wrong. 

[dialamah]

11 minutes ago, Argus said:

He's in hospital with gunshot wounds and hasn't been questioned, and the motives are likely known. This does not strike me as a random shooting, though I could be wrong. 

I don't think it's random either.  I "speculate" that it's another White Guy pissed off that the woman he wants doesn't want him and his inherent misogyny and sense of entitlement justifies his murderous rampage.   But no "official" confirmation.  Should I start wondering that the police/government/media are withholding information because they don't want us to know how dangerous White Guys are?  Not to mention all the White Guy votes JT would lose if he dared be honest about the scourge of White Guy violence.

Edited August 12, 2018 by dialamah

[Argus]

5 hours ago, dialamah said:

I don't think it's random either.  I "speculate" that it's another White Guy pissed off that the woman he wants doesn't want him and his inherent misogyny and sense of entitlement justifies his murderous rampage.   But no "official" confirmation.  Should I start wondering that the police/government/media are withholding information because they don't want us to know how dangerous White Guys are?  Not to mention all the White Guy votes JT would lose if he dared be honest about the scourge of White Guy violence.

He didn't walk down busy streets shooting people at random, and it has only been a day or two, not weeks.

[dialamah]

15 minutes ago, Argus said:

He didn't walk down busy streets shooting people at random,

So?  He still shot people and we haven't yet been told why.

Quote

and it has only been a day or two, not weeks.[/quote]

People here were claiming a conspiracy of silence within hours of Hussain's rampage.   

Edited August 12, 2018 by dialamah

[Centerpiece]

7 hours ago, dialamah said:

I don't think it's random either.  I "speculate" that it's another White Guy pissed off that the woman he wants doesn't want him and his inherent misogyny and sense of entitlement justifies his murderous rampage.   But no "official" confirmation.  Should I start wondering that the police/government/media are withholding information because they don't want us to know how dangerous White Guys are?  Not to mention all the White Guy votes JT would lose if he dared be honest about the scourge of White Guy violence.

In your puzzling bias, I don't think you even realize what you're saying. Your "speculation" gives a pretty good motive - and one that is contained to people he knows. I suspect that your speculation has a good chance of being accurate. Faisal Hussain marched up and down the street and randomly (possibly/probably) shot and killed people. No motive has been put forward - other than terrorism which may or may not have had a mental illness catalyst. You permit yourself to propagate your White Guy/Misogyny but are all afluster when others follow the equally possible thread of terrorism. I don't expect you to see the dichotomy - but there it is.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Centerpiece

[turningrite]

Under the category of stories we'd almost forgotten about (or maybe stories politicians wish we'd forgotten?), the Danforth shooting has reemerged as the self-declared top ISIS/ISIL operation of the year. According to the NP story, police won't comment on the matter. Those with memories that extend further back than the most recent week's media cycles will recall that officials fell over themselves at the time of the Danforth rampage - before any substantive investigation was conducted - to assure the public that there was no apparent terrorist connection, after which, of course, the whole event became shrouded in obscurity under the guise of an SIU investigation. Oh, and there was the mental health angle, never conclusively demonstrated but simply assumed by many in the absence of real information to be correct.

So, what's actually going on here? I'm beginning to wonder whether the new provincial government might manage to withhold the investigation's findings until just prior to next year's federal election? Wouldn't that be a hoot! Maybe the Trudeau government will eventually figure out that there's a lot to be said for transparency in a democracy, a notion it and its progressive acolytes generally seem to find highly objectionable. The best laid plans....

https://nationalpost.com/news/isil-propaganda-video-calls-torontos-danforth-shooting-its-top-foreign-operation-of-the-year

Edited September 18, 2018 by turningrite

[Goddess]

 

Under the category of stories we'd almost forgotten about (or maybe stories politicians wish we'd forgotten?), the Danforth shooting has reemerged as the self-declared top ISIS/ISIL operation of the year. According to the NP story, police won't comment on the matter. Those with memories that extend further back than the most recent week's media cycles will recall that officials fell over themselves at the time of the Danforth rampage - before any substantive investigation was conducted - to assure the public that there was no apparent terrorist connection, after which, of course, the whole event became shrouded in obscurity under the guise of an SIU investigation. Oh, and there was the mental health angle, never conclusively demonstrated but simply assumed by many in the absence of real information to be correct.

So, what's actually going on here? I'm beginning to wonder whether the new provincial government might manage to withhold the investigation's findings until just prior to next year's federal election? Wouldn't that be a hoot! Maybe the Trudeau government will eventually figure out that there's a lot to be said for transparency in a democracy, a notion it and its progressive acolytes generally seem to find highly objectionable. The best laid plans....

https://nationalpost.com/news/isil-propaganda-video-calls-torontos-danforth-shooting-its-top-foreign-operation-of-the-year

I don't understand this.  Why does the guy have to have some kind of "official" ties to ISIS to prove he was working for them?  ISIS sent out a call to all it's followers to attack and in particular to attack Canada.  This guy frequented their websites and responded to the call by conducting an attack.  How is it not terrorism?

Edited September 18, 2018 by Goddess

[turningrite]

 

I don't understand this.  Why does the guy have to have some kind of "official" ties to ISIS to prove he was working for them?  ISIS sent out a call to all it's followers to attack and in particular to attack Canada.  This guy frequented their websites and responded to the call by conducting an attack.  How is it not terrorism?

Shhhh! You're not supposed to draw such conclusions until the government says you can. Which in the case of the Trudeau government presumably means never, at least as long as it controls the narrative. But once it doesn't, well, things could be much different.

[Centerpiece]

Still waiting for answers:

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/christie-blatchford-what-is-taking-so-long-with-toronto-danforth-mass-shooting-investigation?video_autoplay=true

[Argus]

32 minutes ago, Centerpiece said:

Still waiting for answers:

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/christie-blatchford-what-is-taking-so-long-with-toronto-danforth-mass-shooting-investigation?video_autoplay=true

I don't understand why anyone is confused about the length of time this is taking? ALL investigations by the SIU take many, many months, if not years. WHY, would be the mystery. Maybe someone ought to investigate that.

One addition frustration is it doesn't seem like police were even really involved other than to chase him before he shot himself. The only thing the SIU is supposed to be investigating, its only purpose, is police involvement and whether they did anything improper in the application of force. Thus there seems precious little for them to investigate here.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Argus

[turningrite]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

The only thing the SIU is supposed to be investigating, its only purpose, is police involvement and whether they did anything improper in the application of force. Thus there seems precious little for them to investigate here.

And that's the nub of Blatchford's concern. The police role here seems pretty obvious. Based on available reports, they were properly pursing an active shooter who ended up killing himself. Plainly put, the delay in releasing the full report on this incident undermines public trust in the objectivity and/or efficiency of the system. Initial media reports on the incident, including in U.S. media outlets (which are widely available to English-speaking Canadians, just in case our officials don't understand this), some of which speculated on a possible terrorist connection, underline the need to be forthright with Torontonians, Ontarians and Canadians. If the delay is merely a matter of bureaucratic inefficiency, then this issue needs to be addressed. If it results from a desire on the part of officialdom to withhold potentially controversial information from the general public, the concern becomes much more serious. Perhaps it's the cynic in me, but I wonder whether the province, which controls the SIU, plans to allow the investigative conclusions to be released immediately prior to or during the 2019 federal election, particularly if a legitimate security issue is involved? Perhaps the federal government should press the province to immediately release the results. 

The general public has not been well-served by the manner in which this matter has been handled to date.

Edited December 29, 2018 by turningrite

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, turningrite said:

And that's the nub of Blatchford's concern. The police role here seems pretty obvious. Based on available reports, they were properly pursing an active shooter who ended up killing himself. Plainly put, the delay in releasing the full report on this incident undermines public trust in the objectivity and/or efficiency of the system.

Hasn't your trust and faith in the system already been completely shattered by your experience with the health system? Mine was demolished by the way fisheries management is conducted.  I doubt there's any self-respecting human beings on the planet anywhere who have any meaningful trust in any government system.

Blatchford's concern has a lot more to do with making Islam and terrorism appear to be one and the same.thing.  

[turningrite]

19 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Hasn't your trust and faith in the system already been completely shattered by your experience with the health system? Mine was demolished by the way fisheries management is conducted.  I doubt there's any self-respecting human beings on the planet anywhere who have any meaningful trust in any government system.

Blatchford's concern has a lot more to do with making Islam and terrorism appear to be one and the same.thing.  

Our "universal" health care system, at least in Ontario, is a mess, and perhaps even a fraud, at least in the latter case for those who have in good faith paid their taxes to support it for years. But that's not the issue being discussed here. Blatchford's concern is that the failure to expeditiously report on the incident has generated a vacuum that only serves to validate concerns that there's more involved here than the public has been told. Public officials could quickly resolve these concerns by simply releasing the report in an expeditious fashion. The delay itself, and not Blatchford, is validating the concerns of those who believe that serious public security issues are involved. Can you name another Western democracy that withholds such information from the public after these kinds of events occur?

Edited December 29, 2018 by turningrite

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, turningrite said:

Our "universal" health care system, at least in Ontario, is a mess, and perhaps even a fraud, at least in the latter case for those who have in good faith paid to support it for years. But that's not the issue being discussed here. Blatchford's concern is that the failure to expeditiously report on the incident has generated a vacuum that only serves to validate concerns that there's more involved here than the public has been told. Public officials could quickly resolve these concerns by simply releasing the report in an expeditious fashion. They, and not Blatchford, are providing fuel to those who believe that serious public security issues are involved.

Perhaps SIU is filled with people who want to generate that vacuum.  I've seen cops do some pretty weird shit when it comes to galvanizing public concern.  Its like a form of moral entrepreneurialism that involves exploiting cynicism and fear.

[turningrite]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Perhaps SIU is filled with people who want to generate that vacuum.  I've seen cops do some pretty weird shit when it comes to galvanizing public concern.  Its like a form of moral entrepreneurialism that involves exploiting cynicism and fear.

Who knew the police have so much power? My guess is that they tend to serve their political masters. If information is being suppressed, I personally would tend to look further up the ladder.

[eyeball]

52 minutes ago, turningrite said:

Who knew the police have so much power?  My guess is that they tend to serve their political masters.

I suspect the cop who turned a local report about a simple drug bust into a national story about rape-gangs stalking the mean streets of Tofino was given a commendation by politicians hip to beat the war on drugs drum.  I don't think the local Chamber of Commerce and Tourism association were too impressed though.  Pretty much everything is now subject to the powerfully amplifying effect of going viral. 
 

Quote

 

If information is being suppressed, I personally would tend to look further up the ladder.

 

Some people look for evidence of aliens further up that ladder too. 

[Rue]

So far the only people I read unfairly stereotyping people are the terrorist apologists on this thread claiming the shooter should be reframed as mentally ill with no mention of his Muslim extremist views being made because that would automatically paint all Muslims as extremist terrorist.

The fact remains, the shooter's terrorist actions were fuelled by his Muslim extremist views he was taught and learned. To state this in no way suggests all Muslims are extremist. If someone uses this idiot's actions to smeer all Muslims they are also idiots.

Furthermore the attempts to reframe references to the motivation behind these shootings as not being Muslim extremism but mental illness is an intellectually dishonest deflection that tries to white wash Muslim extremist terrorism as mental illness. Bullshit.  

Muslim extremist inspired terrorism is just that. To smeer all persons with mental illness by equating Muslim extremist terrorism as a mental illness unfairly stigmatizes all mental patients. Enough with this bullshit.

The vast majority of persons with mental illness are not violent nor do they engage in terrorism and it is insipid to couch terrorism by relabelling it as mental illness. 

I remind all of you the shooter indicated to police at the time of his arrest he was fully aware of what he did.  He had no psychotic break, i.e., a psychotic episode as some have intimated he did at the time of his shootings in responses on this thread.

In fact he showed before, during and after his shootings, demonstrated, premeditated and deliberate planning let alone presence of mind...the exact opposite indications of a psychotic episode or disconnect from reality

He did this by  calmly sitting and waiting at the site where he commenced the attack, and further, by bringing a knapsack with weapons, by dressing in a specific manner and then during the attack calmly explaining to a brown person his actions were targetting white people.

There is also  further evidence of presence of mind and deliberation based on what his brother said after the shooting, from what the brother told police and from eye witnesses who  indicated he also appears to have targetted women.  

As  well if he truly was disconnected he would have been placed in hospital under psychiatric hold until the episode was over after his arrest.

However he was non violent and at all times coherent after his arrest displaying full awareness and no impairment of any kind so can we stop with this bullshit use of the word psychotic. In fact the term is not even used anymore in psychiatry and hasn't been used in conjunction with a psychiatric diagnosis for many years. 

Furthermore and in fact, most multiple murderers and in particular terrorists have to be very sane, i.e. focused in and on the here and now, because they must plan and be deliberately focused to be able to target who they attack and kill and how and when they will carry it out.  

If anything this makes them deliberately hateful and deliberately focused on how they will express that hatred, not mentally ill.

Can we stop white washing Muslim extremist  terrorism as mental illness. It  insults and stigmatizes all mentally ill people who do not kill or engage in violence.

The very same people who claim all Muslims are stigmatized unjustly if we point out these terrorists were motivated by Islamic extremist beliefs , stigmatize all mentally ill people when they white wash Muslim extremism as mentally ill. Enough with the double standard and attempt to whitewash their hatred.

In fact a true rage killer who is disassociated from their killings is very rare. An example would be someone high on drugs or suffering schizophrenic paranoia... but less than 5 percent of schizophrenics actually engage in violence and when they do it's usually because they stopped taking medication. The vast majority of persons with mental illness are not violent and if they are it  is usually to themselves not others.

Killers high on drugs engage in random chaos which is immediate but usually of short duration and seldom meticulous as was the m.o. of this shooter.

Nothing in what this terrorist  individual did suggests a mental illness let alone one that can explain what he did and ignore the cause and effect connection between his Muslim extremist views and his terrorist shootings.

If we can use mental illness the way Ghost or Eye, Dialamah, Mr. Harder, et al intimate in  this thread to avoid admitting his Muslim extremist views fulled his actions then why not just re-define all criminals as mentally ill, send them to healing lodges or Trudeau camp for terrorists and pay them each 10 million.

Too bad he was not shot dead before he could kill anyone and this coward gets more sympathy from his apologists on this thread then the people he killed, families he has destroyed, innocent people he has traumatized.

Not one of my words targets Muslims unfairly. If you want to whitewash this scum of a human as a victim, i.e., unfortunate sufferer of mental illness, I say bullshit. Stop misappropriating mental illness to apologize for what this scum did and why.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Rue

[eyeball]

20 hours ago, Rue said:

So far the only people I read unfairly stereotyping people are the terrorist apologists on this thread claiming the shooter should be reframed as mentally ill with no mention of his Muslim extremist views being made

Psychotic people often incorporate things happening in the real world into their delusions - there's not much point to doing anything other than skim over the rest of your dissertation if it ignores that.

Quote

 

If we can use mental illness the way Ghost or Eye, Dialamah, Mr. Harder, et al intimate in  this thread to avoid admitting his Muslim extremist views fulled his actions then why not just re-define all criminals as mentally ill, send them to healing lodges or Trudeau camp forvterrists and pay them each 10 million.

 

Because doctors who conduct psychological assessments don't "use" mental illness the way you think I do.

Quote

Not one of my words targets Muslims unfairly.

Oh yes they do along with the mentally ill, their doctors and me.

Edited December 31, 2018 by eyeball

[Rue]

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Psychotic people often incorporate things happening in the real world into their delusions - there's not much point to doing anything other than skim over the rest of your dissertation if it ignores that.

Because doctors who conduct psychological assessments don't "use" mental illness the way you think I do.

Define psychotic person and provide your source for the definition and how it determined psychotics incorporate the real world in their delusions. There is no point even dealing with your comments until you do that. 

I work with and read the diagnoses of psychiatrists so I know for a fact they do not use the word psychotic any more let alone in the manner you have to describe terrorism or premeditated murder. I  also know how you use the word psychotic to diagnose,  because you again wrongfully stated it in your latest response to me.

Go find out how the word psychosis, psychotic break, used to be used when engaging in a plea of temporary insanity which is what I was referring to and what you continue to misstate.

There is no psychiatric diagnosis called psychotic or neurotic. The DSV Diagnostic Manual did way with such adjectives and descriptions for good reason, one being how people like you use the words incorrectly to apologize for violent actions that are criminal in intent and deliberately planned.

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by Rue

[Rue]

To be specific the word psychosis not psychotic might be used but as a sub-category of description  of symptoms not a diagnositic term or diagnosis by itself. It is most commonly used when describing types of schizophrenia.

The term psychotic might be used in  the word anti-psychotic to describe a  specific class of drugs but even that word is now being discarded by pharmacologists, pharmacists and psychiatrists because that class of drugs has been for the most part replaced by new drugs.

Anti-psychotic medications like Thorazine are not often used anymore. They have been replaced by a different class of drugs with far better results and less side effects such as seizures, tremors, twitches, shaking, excess fatigue, weight gain, paralysis, blurred vision, loss of hearing, delayed reflexes, etc.

Edited December 31, 2018 by Rue